Time for my thoughts (bumped post from Jan. 2008) MET.

[Always Remember 21]

Nicely written, Art. If I may piggy-back on what you've said, the "psychological" impact on what this week has done to the team makes me think about our being $20 million over the cap. Many here have said, "We've been over the cap before, we'll get it done again." In light of all that's taken place this week, what player is going to want to renegotiate his contract, knowing that your good works, most likely, will result in your being kicked out the door, a la Williams?

This what I was thinking about. Last night Kelli Johnson reported on Comcast that she talked to some of the players and that they now feel that Snyder's word means nothing. Do you really think that they are going to be eager to help this guy out now?

I really respect the work that she does on Comcast and I don't think she is just trying to make inflammatory comments.

[skinsn24]

I believe as an organization we have shown too little loyalty and respect for what people have accomplished for us and too much for what someone else promises to accomplish. That is a flaw that has hurt the team over the years in my view.

So for me this is just a tragic, sickening feeling. The psychology of the team can't be great right now. It may be softened by the returning number of coaches, or it may lose respect for them if they feel those guys were disloyal to Williams. I don't know.

Art, i was very surprised to see this from you. I am right with you on this one.

I also understand the point that Gibbs adn GW had a plan and we needed to trust that plan.

However, we are going to here the same thing now except "Synder has a plan, you have to trust that plan, he has more information that anyone."

While he might have the information he has proven time and time again that he does bad things when he is in totall control.

[smitty71]

"How he entered with a complete list of possible assistants and their complete profiles. Williams, like many coming coaches or out of work coaches, have prepared head coaching packets at the ready. A vision and plan for the future. I think in this case he didn't and others may have. I think he must have talked about what he'd done here, rather than what he wanted to do, and others came in, others who'd had time to prepare, and seemed better candidates for that prep."

Why do you say he must not have been prepared? Did someone tell you this? It would just surprise me that he wouldn't have put a package together when Gibbs announced his retirement.

[jbooma]

And for me.........there is a good point to that change also.

He is very loyal to his friend. He has NOT thrown him under the bus.

People complain that THE DAN is not loyal........"why would any coach want to come here....there is no loyalty". I see the Vinny thing as very loyal. For what ever the reason.

We have NO idea what the issues have been between GW and THE DAN. I know the fans, wanted him, and the players that gave a sound byte said they wanted him.

I wonder if SOME players didnt do a sound byte because they DIDNT want him to be the head coach?

Oh I agree with you. At least now if the team crumbles then Vinny will have to be blamed. Like I said I do not know how the guy got the promotion for doing not much, but now at least we know who is in charge.

What I would like to know was Jason a Vinny or Gibbs pick, meaning are they happy with the progress or not. I do feel they will have to draft a young QB in the draft in the very late rounds or sign a veteran in the offseason. I do not see Collins staying without Saunders and we all know Mark will not be here.

[The Sisko]

Williams was certainly popular with enough of the players to be a people person. But, there is something to your statement about what Snyder may be looking for. What does continuity mean? It doesn't mean keeping every player and every coach and every play and all that. That's consistency. Continuity is a way of being.

It's an organizational direction.

It's laying out fundamental principles that govern all choice you make and the people you hire to make them. In theory and body it seems to me MOST of the coaching staff will return, carrying forward the established way of being. In organizational structure, it seems we'll see something similar. And, I do wonder if Dan's looking for a people handler like Gibbs.

This is an interesting comment Art. Not because of it's content but rather because it's an issue we've gone over several times in debating the relative merits of Snyderatto. At the time, I argued that we really needed a legit GM (as I had done before way too many times to count) and I pointed out that it was about more than just picking players and negotiating contracts. I'm glad to see you've either come around to my way of thinking or admitted that you agreed all along.

This team has not had a consistent set of guiding principles about who it is supposed to be and how it will work since Snyder arrived and perhaps since the elder JKC handed over the reigns. Until we figure out what type of organization and team we're going to be, we'll forever be trying to chase others' past glory. Occasionally that works but most often it's a recipe for mediocrity or outright failure.

Moving on to the other major problem with our F.O. structure, one of my favorite quotes from the movies is "A man's gotta know his limitations". The inability to understand one's own limitations is one of the most destructive and corrosive weaknesses one can have and Snyder seems to suffer from this in spades.

As you pointed out, Snyder is particularly weak at handling people. I suspected this when he first bought the team and stories surfaced about his treatment of the office and other staff members. Certainly I understand that nobody is good at everything. However, Snyder at some point should have realized that he doesn't handle people well and selected someone with strong people/communication and strategic management skills to handle personnel (including himself) and the overall direction of the club. Instead, he found a yes man's yes man and the rest is history.

Until Snyder gets a handle on how to manage his weaknesses, especially managing personnel, we're going to take two steps forward and three backwards for a long time.

[Seabee1973]

Wow, I was going to post something similar, but not as well thought correctly stated.

I too, am absolutely sick of the thought of Fassel being our coach. He has been off everyone's radar. I too want to know why Saunders can have 4 of the best offenses ever while in KC, yet he is held back here? We have been set back by another 4 or 5 years. Dan Synder is the curse of this franchise.

So if we get 9-10 wins next year we will be set back?

[Seabee1973]

I'm special. Rules don't apply to me .

Art we all knew you were special:silly:

[The Sisko]

Art we all knew you were special:silly:

Please don't rub it in. He's self concious enough about having to ride that short bus as it is.

[AAARedskin]

The way Dan Snyder treated Greg Williams (and Al Saunders) is an absolute disgrace. Don't past results and 4 seasons count for anything with this guy? At the very least, Williams deserved a phone call from Cerrato or Snyder explaining why he wasn't getting the job. Instead, he finds out through the media, and then has to defend himself from a bogus smear campaign. In the years to come, why in the world would any decent coach wanna come to Washington to work for Snyder? Hey, I am still a big Skins fan, but this is an embarrassment and our team looks ridiculous. Snyder is reminding me a lot of the late ROBERT IRSAY, the buffoon who once owned the Baltimore Colts.

[TK]

Please don't rub it in. He's self concious enough about having to ride that short bus as it is.

Ever since Art posted that comment, I've been waiting for someone to make the short bus joke. Took you long enough.

Here's your prize.

:1stplace:

[The Sisko]

I held out as long as I could but nobody else seemed up to taking the bait.

[Chris Worthy]

As you pointed out, Snyder is particularly weak at handling people. I suspected this when he first bought the team and stories surfaced about his treatment of the office and other staff members. Certainly I understand that nobody is good at everything. However, Snyder at some point should have realized that he doesn't handle people well and selected someone with strong people/communication and strategic management skills to handle personnel (including himself) and the overall direction of the club. Instead, he found a yes man's yes man and the rest is history.

That statement right there could be the main reason why he/was pushing for Fassel. The one thing Jim has going for him is is communications skills with personnel and players.

But you have to be so much more as a HC and with the current OC and DC in you have to go with someone else to bring it all together.

My problem is I take this team too personal, and this year has taken its toll on me.

[turbodiesel#44]

The one thing Jim has going for him is is communications skills with personnel and players.

He completely lost his team in 2003. They quit playing for him. Not very good player com skills there.

[Dick Edds]

I still cant figure out why everyone here hates Fassel. Dude is a proven good coach. The "he was fired by his best friend" thing is ridiculous. Billick is convinced he is the smartest Offensive mind ever. And even this genius could not make Baltimore's offense work. Sure they improved their offensive rankings after Fassel was fired, but only for a few games...and then they went right back to being crap. That offense's failings do not fall at Fassel's feet. I like Fassel and before Gibbs appeared out of nowhere, he was who I wanted to replace Spurrier. I think he is a good hire. We will have two guys known for bringing up young QBs working with our young QB. This is a smart move guys...you will see.

never thought I'd say it, but I think so too ... we have 2 not so proven coordinators, we need someone with HC and playoff experience to override that. And I tend to think that with Blache and most of the def staff kept in tact, that we need a veteran play caller and more coaching on the offense.

The defense should really not skip a beat, Blache is a good fit for these guys and he has their respect. Hopefully he'll want to build up the front 7 of this defense.

I guess I would rather have Fassell as HC helping develop JC and the offense, with Blache on the defense ... than bringing in some young unproven HC like Spags.

B/c Blache does not seem like a coach who is gonna let the HC dictate how he runs his defense and tie his hands. Makes more sense right now to get a offensive minded coach.

But if Cowher were somehow available I think he could fit here, w/anyone.

Meeks is intriguing though.

[Art]

"How he entered with a complete list of possible assistants and their complete profiles. Williams, like many coming coaches or out of work coaches, have prepared head coaching packets at the ready. A vision and plan for the future. I think in this case he didn't and others may have. I think he must have talked about what he'd done here, rather than what he wanted to do, and others came in, others who'd had time to prepare, and seemed better candidates for that prep."

Why do you say he must not have been prepared? Did someone tell you this? It would just surprise me that he wouldn't have put a package together when Gibbs announced his retirement.

I have attempted to explain my thinking as to being prepared for the interview and I think people are not fully processing it. By being prepared, I mean more than knowing the team or the coaches or any of that. I mean being in the mind set of leading a franchise to greater heights. I believe Williams was thinking about the team he had and the team he knew and the team he'd coached. I don't think he was thinking about the team he'd lead. I don't think he was in the mindset to lay out a plan for the future because of the situation.

[TheLongshot]

This team has not had a consistent set of guiding principles about who it is supposed to be and how it will work since Snyder arrived and perhaps since the elder JKC handed over the reigns. Until we figure out what type of organization and team we're going to be, we'll forever be trying to chase others' past glory. Occasionally that works but most often it's a recipe for mediocrity or outright failure.

Moving on to the other major problem with our F.O. structure, one of my favorite quotes from the movies is "A man's gotta know his limitations". The inability to understand one's own limitations is one of the most destructive and corrosive weaknesses one can have and Snyder seems to suffer from this in spades.

I'll agree with this. Snyder has struggled to find the happy medium that he's comfortable with. I do think he's finally reached a point where he knows how much involvement he wants to have and what kind of coaches he wants running his team. Despite what a lot of people here think, I don't think Danny is going to be any more involved than he was with Gibbs. He tried having a heavy hand in things when he first got here, and that failed. He tried being completely hands off and wasn't happy with that. I also think that he's going to prefer veteran coaches who have done it before over younger guys and college coaches. That's the lesson of the Spurrier years.

So, yeah, I do think he knows his limitations.

As you pointed out, Snyder is particularly weak at handling people. I suspected this when he first bought the team and stories surfaced about his treatment of the office and other staff members. Certainly I understand that nobody is good at everything. However, Snyder at some point should have realized that he doesn't handle people well and selected someone with strong people/communication and strategic management skills to handle personnel (including himself) and the overall direction of the club. Instead, he found a yes man's yes man and the rest is history.

I don't know I'd say that he's weak handling people. For the most part, it seems that most people who meet him seem to like him. I point to Marty, who never had a good word to say about Snyder, until they met and Snyder eventually hired him. I'd say that perhaps he lacks grace and style. He certainly doesn't know how to handle the media, so his answer is to just avoid it whenever possible.

In the end, tho, all of those things can be washed over if we win.

Jason

[fansince62]

:applause: :applause:

We are cool.

well...you were right about the booing. I got carried away. thanks for at least redirecting some of the frustration into proper channels!

[MumboSauce]

I think the part about lack of loyalty for players/coaches, etc. within, and being enamored with outside talent has definitely been a detriment to this organization. There have been players and coaches who performed at high levels or were what many considered "true Redskins" to only be shown the door. Then bring in some outside guy sexy free agent, etc. overpay for them, and they didn't pan out. Grass is greener on the other side deal.

[McMetal]

Well, after yesterday I came to the conclusion that I feel more loyalty towards Williams than I do the Redskins. This is just not the team I grew up with anymore.

I'm a GW guy til the bitter end. This team is dead to me now.

[CRobi21]

"It doesn't matter what you think!!!"

[voicekiller]

THIS post I really like.

:applause:

This makes so much sense to me. And THIS gives THE DAN actually DID learn something from Gibbs 2.

Me too...but who is the people handler in the mix like Gibbs?

[Om]

Well, after yesterday I came to the conclusion that I feel more loyalty towards Williams than I do the Redskins. This is just not the team I grew up with anymore.

I'm a GW guy til the bitter end. This team is dead to me now.

Good luck wherever you decide to go. Would you like me to deactivate your account?

[Troy Fakeman]

Good luck wherever you decide to go. Would you like me to deactivate your account?

Cooked............

[skinsman4u]

Dear Jim,

Please tell Art he's the best Mod in the universe!

Signed:

Sean Taylor Fan

[SkinsFTW]

In theory and body it seems to me MOST of the coaching staff will return, carrying forward the established way of being. In organizational structure, it seems we'll see something similar. And, I do wonder if Dan's looking for a people handler like Gibbs.

(Sorry for the bump, found this doing a totally different search for pics for the lookalike thread of all things) Kind of interesting now that we see for the 2nd year what Zorn has turned out to be twice.

This is probably exactly what Snyder was looking for though. He saw Zorn as similar to Gibbs in interviews. He's a really nice guy. He has all kinds of seemingly great ideas. Gets along well with Snyder/Cerrato and probably seems like a true people person. AND!!! He came from a WCO team!!!

The thing is, he's not in any way like Gibbs as a person or a coach. Coach Gibbs had depth of character and you saw it after a loss, Coach Zorn has depth of self worth and we see this after a loss. It's not the same thing. The players reaction last year makes the distinction obvious, but it was obvious to me from the beginning. (I've worked with a few people like Zorn and they are the worst people to deal with. They are always right, and will tell anyone who will listen the reasons why.)

He doesn't have any idea how to create an offense to take advantage of his players strengths and his mindset isn't to think that way even if he could. He only defends his ideas, his play calling, his reasoning. Not the players at all. It's execution. (Despite having the wrong players on the field to execute)

He is similar to Norv Turner with the same "What we do works!!!" mentality. Maybe even worse though. (Norv really is just a nice guy. Zorn isn't.) 9 Points on the Rams is somewhat more than pathetic than Norv with what I remember being an inferior team.

The most obvious thing about Zorn to me, which may have not been so apparent to Snyder/Cerrato, is that he wants everybody to know that he knows everything already. He already has an answer to your question. If you know the intricacies of your discussion you can call bull**** on this person. That's why I know this guy, trip him up and he has no answer other than what we hear from Zorn. Like what Sonny did to him on Sunday and Zorn said he'd bench Sonny.

He's just a fast talker with the nice guy front, IMO. He saw the play work in his mind so why shouldn't it work in real life? is an example of how he works. He will call the same play again only for this reason. He's not plotting to figure out what is in the best interest of the team in a particular situation. That's inferior to making plays that he knows should work actually work and if he has to call them 3 or 4 times to get his point across he will, and he does.

There is no consideration given to what would be the best play call, taking JC, Portis, our OL, Moss, Cooley, Kelly, into consideration. It's all about proving that he knows and is right, even when we all know that he isn't and start laughing/booing in the end at the pathetic calls.

:chair:

Zorn is the reason the fans booed after the WIN.