More Disappointed in Some Redskin Fans Than The Team

[REDALERT]

Actually, it comes with the territory. The players know it, the coaches and so does the owners. It's a big business, and players get paid big money to perform on Sundays, and sometimes Monday's. Like the poster said before me, alot of those players get paid big money for one game compared to what some of us make in a entire year. So yes, getting upset for a player consistently making mistakes is going to warrant some criticism. It's like when a child gets punished for doing something wrong and then the child starts to cry because he's/she's being punished. Oh well, it's something that needed to be done, but it doesn't mean you don't love your child any less after punishing them.

It's the love for the game man and the love to want to see your team do well. And when they don't, it's like getting verbally punished from the fans, but deep down inside most of us don't really mean any harm. Just frustration from wanting and knowing your team can do better just like if it were your own child.

But the truth of the matter is the same fans that's bashing all the players, coaches, Fo or what have you are going to be watching the same Skins vs. Cardinals game this upcoming Sunday. And when we win and be looking at 4-2, all will be well again and the beat will continue to go on.

[Horatio]

This is from today's Wall Street Journal: it's about the Bills-Cowboys game but could apply fo what's been going on at FedEx too:

Loutish Fans Disgrace the NFL

And the league fights back.

BY MARK YOST

Tuesday, October 16, 2007 12:01 a.m. EDT

ORCHARD PARK, N.Y.--Three hours before the "Monday Night Football" game against the Dallas Cowboys, Chris Clark, a former Erie County sheriff who is now head of security for the Buffalo Bills, was making his pregame rounds.

"How's the crowd?" he asked two deputies.

"It's gonna get ugly," one of them predicted.

They should know. During a game last year, the officers had to leave their patrol car. When they returned, all four tires had been deflated and their car was littered with empty beer cans.

Unruly behavior at sporting events has been one of the most visible signs of the coarsening of American culture, but the NFL is in a league of its own. One reason is the sheer size of the crowds. The Washington Redskins, who lead the National Football League in attendance, draw about 90,000 fans per game, almost twice the average number of baseball fans at Yankee Stadium and four times the number of spectators at the best-attended National Basketball Association and National Hockey League games.

The other reason is tailgating. While television cooking shows tend to focus on the food, walk through most NFL stadium parking lots and the clear focus is on alcohol. And lots of it.

"The Twins fans come in and have one or two beers," said Marty Neumann, manager of The Little Wagon, a sports bar near Minneapolis's Metrodome. "The Vikings fans come in and have 10."

This hasn't gone unnoticed by the NFL, which regularly gathers and shares best practices in crowd control. Among the findings is that there's a direct correlation between season-ticket subscription rates and fan behavior. "If a team has a 10-year waiting list for tickets, most fans don't want to risk losing their season tickets," said Scott Berchtold, a Bills spokesman who used to work for the Green Bay Packers.

Teams have also found that making season-ticket holders accountable for any bad behavior that occurs in their seats--even if it happens when someone else is sitting in them--works. "If we get a bad report, we call the ticket holder and tell them that if there's another problem, regardless of who's sitting in the seats, their tickets will be revoked," said Houston Texans President Jamey Rootes. The team has never had to make a second call. The Bills have started to do the same thing.

The NFL's stadium-building boom over the past decade has helped, too. Personal seat licenses and premium seating tend to price out some of the thugs. Philadelphia's Veterans Stadium was long considered the worst in the league for fan behavior. Cops used to walk through the stands in visiting team jerseys to bait thugs who preyed on visiting fans. Things were so bad that there was a courtroom right in the stadium to arraign the worst offenders. Things have gotten better since the Eagles moved in 2003 to Lincoln Financial Field, which has new luxury suites and nearly 11,000 Club seats that cost $800 or more a game. "The more expensive the experience, the less inclined fans are to ruin it," said Houston's Mr. Rootes.

These trends partly explain the general state of fan behavior in Buffalo. Ralph Wilson Stadium was built in 1973 and holds 74,000, but there are only about 48,000 season ticket holders. That means about a third of the attendees have nothing to lose if they misbehave.

The Bills have tried to change that by actually starting to arrest people. In the first four home games of the season, the Bills arrested 51 fans, ejected 162 and turned away 43 who were either too drunk to be admitted or wore clothing deemed offensive.

The Bills have also started using the old-fashioned method of public shame as a deterrent. Starting this season, the Orchard Park police are publicizing the names and addresses of people arrested at games. "The headline in the paper after the first game was '23 arrested at Bills game,' " said Mr. Clark, the Bills' security chief. He credits the policy for cutting the number of arrests in half for the second home game.

The quality of play is also a factor in crowd behavior. "If fans are focused on the game, there tends to be less time for troublemaking," said Mr. Clark. Unfortunately, the team can count on one hand its number of winning seasons over the past decade.

Despite earnest efforts by football teams and the league, talk to most any NFL fan and he has a horror story to tell. Larry Becker, a Long Island oral surgeon, stopped taking his kids to New York Jets games because of the drunkenness and foul language they were exposed to. When Dr. Becker made the mistake of asking some fans to watch their language around his children, he was told to buzz off--in language that can't be repeated in a family newspaper. "Their attitude is they've paid a lot of money for these tickets and they're going to do whatever they want to do," said Rick Bonadeo, a Jets fan from Boonton, N.J.

In Buffalo, the unruly behavior often spills over into the luxury suites, prompting Mr. Clark to post guards outside each one. "Fans would just walk in and use the bathroom," said Bills suite-holder Ed Shill. "In the warm weather, when the windows were open, they'd dive in and grab food and beer. In the winter, when it's 20-below outside and we're in our shirtsleeves drinking hot chocolate, they'd throw things at the windows and give us the finger."

Night games are the worst. "They drink like it's a one o'clock start," Mr. Shill said.

That was very much in evidence during the Monday Night game. It was, without a doubt, the drunkest crowd I've ever seen at any sporting event. Many fans stumbling to their seats just before kickoff were absolutely plastered.

Walking through the parking lot before the game, I witnessed a scene all too common at NFL tailgates: home fans taunting the visitors with four-letter expletives. What made the scene here particularly appalling was the target--a family of Cowboys fans with two small children. And the taunt, repeated throughout the stadium by Bills fans, questioned Dallas quarterback Tony Romo sits to pee's sexual orientation (think of what rhymes with "Romo sits to pee"). I wonder how the parents explained that one.

So what was the tally at the end of the first "Monday Night Football" game in Buffalo in 13 years? There were 58 arrests, 111 ejections and 46 turnarounds at the gate. The charges included three for assault, six for obstructing governmental administration, 17 for resisting arrest, two for criminal mischief, 31 for disorderly conduct, two for exposure, 14 for harassment, 19 for criminal trespass, one for criminal possession of marijuana, and one for unlawful possession of alcohol (underage drinking).

Clearly Mr. Clark, the Bills' security chief, still has his work cut out for him. Mr. Yost is the author of "Tailgating, Sacks and Salary Caps: How the NFL Became the Most Successful League in History."

http://www.opinionjournal.com/la/?id=110010740

[Commander Adama]

You comments could be construed so as to be directed at me.

Why would it be directed at you?

Honestly, it's not all about money for all the players. Case in point, Darrell Green. The man was unabashedly crying at his last game. Was he crying because it was his last paycheck? No, I don't think so. How about the players that play with heart even after they get a huge payday? Couldn't they just coast through their contract? I think it's about money for the owners, but that's a given in anything.

Uhhh...I'm still more disappointed in the team.

Why would the feelings of anonymous internet users who type things on a message board, whom you mostly will never meet, actually affect your emotional outlook and cause you to be "disappointed"? That's really weird.

ES is the biggest message board dedicated to any one NFL team. Of course you'll get every kind of decrepit paranoid reaction.

[sARCASM]Because I am seeking approval from everyone. I want to be loved! [/sARCASM]Seriously, because I believe fans can help propel a team. Take the 2004 Boston Red Sox. Instead of most fans saying "Here we go again, we're going to blow it." They held up signs that read "We Believe", etc. Like during the 5 game win-streak the team had in 2005. The fans rallied behind the team, and I think that was a difference maker.

Just my opinion.

[tone_dubbz]

damm the fans, I'm still p'd off at the team. Fans can't help the team win, we are nothing but mere observers.

[Commander Adama]

damm the fans, I'm still p'd off at the team. Fans can't help the team win, we are nothing but mere observers.

12th man my fellow Redskins Fan!

[Rocky21]

Yes, the loss sucked! Big time! Yes, Santana Moss' drops hurt, the fumble by him, the fumble by Clinton Portis. Yes it all hurt, and I would love to put it all behind us, but the biggest thing that disappointed me this weekend, were some of the fans.

I am not talking about being critical of the team. That is totally warranted. Yes, the Wide Receivers were dropping balls left and right, the running game looks shaky, etc. but some of these fans were saying "I hate this team!", "Gibbs sucks!", "Trade <Player>!", etc. HTTR

Wait a minute. We shouldn't trade Clinton Portis after fumbling against Green Bay?

http://www.extremeskins.com/forums/showthread.php?p=4311363#post4311363

[TK]

It's simple.

This board is bi-polar. :paranoid:

[Bacon]

i still cannot fathom how gibbs can be this bad at managing the clock. 2 timeouts in the 4th quarter on consecutive plays. why oh why cant we just run plays in the time we are supposed to.

Who gives a damn? We would have lost no matter what he did with the clock. Our offense just sucked on Sunday.

[MONTEY]

It's real simple. If a fan reacts like that it's because the loss really HURT and that fan is angry.

If someone gets really hurt and angry when the Redskins lose, (and really happy, almost euphoric, when they win) then that is a FAN (by definition.)

A non-fan is someone who doesn't really care whether they win or lose and is thinking about something else today. An anti-fan for the Redskins is someone who is HAPPY when the Skins lose.

People who are supremely pissed off today are just as much fans as those who want to take it in stride.

And being a fan of the Redskins does not equal having BLIND faith in any particular coach or player. They are not God or the Church.

Great post.

[Cooljules]

At the end of the day if your a fan you need to back the team 100%, especially on gameday. Lets get behind the team on sunday, positive vibes, lets make so much noise the Cardinals offense won't hear a thing! I am flying over from the UK for the game sunday and you can bet i will make so much noise, so you better be with me. GO SKINS

[TLusby]

The Skin fans are among the most loyal in the NFL ... and, that's a reason why we have tolerated a medicore team for more than a decade!

This site use to breed intelligent Redskin's fans who were part of the most loyal fan base; now it breeds hatrid and if this site still has the most loyal fans I would hate to read some of the other '"fair weathered" message boards. This site continues to crucify on a daily basis either (1) the owner, (2) Gibbs or Williams (last year), or (3) a certain player, or group of players.

We could be 10-2 and have a game taken away from us and there wouldbe fans screaming about how we will get killed in the first playoff game. If this site is a "true" representation of our fan base; our fan base sucks!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[cozmikbuffalo]

[Honestly, it's not all about money for all the players. Case in point, Darrell Green. The man was unabashedly crying at his last game. Was he crying because it was his last paycheck? No, I don't think so. How about the players that play with heart even after they get a huge payday? Couldn't they just coast through their contract? I think it's about money for the owners, but that's a given in anything.] quote

Darrell Green??? Darrell Green??? I replied to you post about how we fans should remember all that Santana Moss did in 05. And I was commenting on Moss not catching balls for some time now. And how to me it seems that even a lot of players see the game as strickly business. How it is a job to some and they don't feel the angst the fans on this board do and have for 15 years.

Darrell Green was not even a part of the discussion dude. I have always loved Darrell Green and the players from that era. It was very different then. You didn't see all the hugging and kissing between plays by opposing players, there was more loyalty to teams and rosters didn't change weekly like they do now, there weren't as many criminals and thugs as there are now(being address by Goodell),fans were loyal and didn't change colors with whichever team just won the SB,tickets were affordable, the majority of players didn't showboat around like players do on every play now it seems, even when they are losing the game badly the opposing team is deep in their red zone and they make one play and celebrate it like they just cured cancer. Crazy stuff.

Also the rivalries were top notch back then too,a dog and a drink didn't cost 20 bucks and you got way more than you do now too,the players were way more accessable then. After SB 18 I believe it was when the Skins got hammered by Oakland. Still hurts me today. But , a couple of days after the game I went to a Kilroys in Virginia in Annadale I am pretty sure. And Russ Grimm , Joe Jackoby and Jeff Bostic were the bar backs for like 4 hours. And later on during that 4 hour stretch Riggins stood on the bar and asked for quiet. Told all the fans that the team and he were truly sorry for letting them down like that and to attempt to take the sting out of the hurt he bought the entire place 2 drinks on him. I cannot imagine anything remotely like that ever happening among todays Celecbrity Stars. Can any of you??

Man, I was having long conversations trading pokes and good natured ribbings with 4 of my favorite all time Redskins and overall Football heros for an entire evening. And all of them were so cool I was stoked. Totally stoked.

I think because of that experience I have less patience with todays Stars. I can't remember John Riggins coming out of any game at least I can't recall an instance of that happening. Same for the Hogs. I know Jeff Bostic had a hard injury to come back from and it took him a few years but he did it. Plus the injuries weren't so frequent and monlithic throught the league like it is today. I remember well the body bag game in Philly and man that was brutal. But that was the exception not the norm back then. And to tell yoo the truth I really can't figure out why this is happening.

With all the modern nutrition and training these guys to through it makes me wonder if something isn't a little fishy.

[E33Green]

Also the rivalries were top notch back then too,a dog and a drink didn't cost 20 bucks and you got way more than you do now too,the players were way more accessable then. After SB 18 I believe it was when the Skins got hammered by Oakland. Still hurts me today. But , a couple of days after the game I went to a Kilroys in Virginia in Annadale I am pretty sure. And Russ Grimm , Joe Jackoby and Jeff Bostic were the bar backs for like 4 hours. And later on during that 4 hour stretch Riggins stood on the bar and asked for quiet. Told all the fans that the team and he were truly sorry for letting them down like that and to attempt to take the sting out of the hurt he bought the entire place 2 drinks on him. I cannot imagine anything remotely like that ever happening among todays Celecbrity Stars. Can any of you??

That's an awesome story. Too bad that will never, ever happen again.

[monkforhall]

Every fan is different. This is a game. If it we're up to my father we wouldn't have a single player on the roster. They would have all been fired, many of them during the games. But you know what, he watches every game, and he has fun doing it. Sometimes we take the game too seriously and what people say way too seriously.

[Passizle]

Great thread so far. I was feeling the same thing. We lost a tough one on the road in Green bay. That is a tough place to play anyday of the week.

To me... other thatn the dropsees, our offense looked better. Its looking better and better every week. That is a really good thing, seeing we are down to basicall the practice squad for an O line. I must admit... Buges is THE man.

As far as the fire, trade, bench threads, I was a little puzzled at first, but then I noticed a trend. Most of the people that were starting and participating in the "bash our team" threads, were not commoners here. Most had post counts les than 500 and that show me, they are not die hards... well at least like the die hards as I have met on this board. Most were probably annebriated too.

I hjope people can walk away with the positive... The Redskins are sooooooooooooo freaking close to being great, I can taste it. And sitting at 3-2 in week 7 with a TON of footbal left to play, leaves me feeling good. Last year I dreaded every week. We just looked horrible. This year we look good, we are just not executing (dropsees, fumbles, etc...). the guys just need to focus.

BTW... this is not a free pas for Moss, but what can you expect after not playing at game speed for three weeks. I blame the dropsees on his injury. I bet you dollars to doughnuts, we will not see that again.

[BigMike619]

It's simple.

This board is bi-polar. :paranoid:

seriously, i get confused because i swear people on here flip-flop their opinions like a fish pulled out of water.

[KingGibbs]

I love the 'skins through thick and thin. I am filled with joy when we win and a miserable SOB when we lose. I'm not okay when we lose especially the way we lost to the Pack and the Giants.

It's football not baseball or basketball. You only have 16 chances and EVERY game can truly mean the difference between making or missing the playoffs. You want to tell yourself "it's only one game" then suit yourself. I'm very passionate about this team and I'm not content with them losing like many on here are. I'd rather watch the game with someone who rejoice's in a win and is upset about a loss then with the "aw shucks, we'll get them next time type."

[Chief skin]

when a team does not play for 60 minute these things happen we played weLL the first half and took the 2nd off, sounds like Giants game UGGHH

[RonJeremy]

I hate this forum after a loss. I never venture into the stadium for at least 24 hours after a loss....the level of intelligence is about -2.

My suggestion....stay away for 24 hours or you will be caught up in the stupidity. :2cents:

[Thirtyfive2seven]

I hate this forum after a loss. I never venture into the stadium for at least 24 hours after a loss....the level of intelligence is about -2.

My suggestion....stay away for 24 hours or you will be caught up in the stupidity. :2cents:

Ron, I couldn't agree more. I don't usually start checking on threads until Monday because I figure by the PCS, OM, ART, Tarhog, etc... can fish out the retarded WE SUCK posts and delete them so I don't have to see it.

Thank god for that because if I had to see as much as crap posted on here as they do I'd be one pissed off individual

Maybe that explains....

[Thoth]

Yes, the loss sucked! Big time! Yes, Santana Moss' drops hurt, the fumble by him, the fumble by Clinton Portis. Yes it all hurt, and I would love to put it all behind us, but the biggest thing that disappointed me this weekend, were some of the fans.

I am not talking about being critical of the team. That is totally warranted. Yes, the Wide Receivers were dropping balls left and right, the running game looks shaky, etc. but some of these fans were saying "I hate this team!", "Gibbs sucks!", "Trade <Player>!", etc.

What happened to when your team fell, giving them strength, so they can pick themselves up?! I think Santana Moss, Joe Gibbs, and others are more upset with themselves, than we are with them. So, why do some fans have to be so rude? So demeaning? How is that helping anyone, especially the team? I'm not saying run up to Santana Moss, give him a hug, and start singing "Koombayah!". No, but why not go up to Moss, shake his hand, and say "I believe you and the team can bounce back from this."

And to those of you, who have said "I hate this team" and the like, I consider you no better than a Cowboy Fan.

So, yes go ahead and flame me for my opinion. Go ahead and call me a fan boy, drinking the Kool-Aid, etc. Let me just say this, I don't care. I am a fan of the Washington Redskins and have eaten a lot of crow since Joe Gibbs left, especially having lived in Boston, Texas, and now Pittsburgh.

HTTR

I doubt the players read this board, or pay it much credence, good or bad.

They are professionals who know how to look past previous mistakes, and motivate themselves.

The bottom line is that they are making millions of dollars to produce, they haven't, and we have pissed away two games we should have won. Our two highest paid offensive superstars lost the game for us. . .

I hope the team comes back from this. But after 4 years of the same deal, consistent underachieving, I'm looking at the coaches, not the players. . .

[pjfootballer]

Horatio]The other reason is tailgating. While television cooking shows tend to focus on the food, walk through most NFL stadium parking lots and the clear focus is on alcohol. And lots of it.

This is the biggest problem at any event. Billy badass full of alcohol. How the hell can you enjoy a game you can't even remember the next day.

Teams have also found that making season-ticket holders accountable for any bad behavior that occurs in their seats--even if it happens when someone else is sitting in them--works. "If we get a bad report, we call the ticket holder and tell them that if there's another problem, regardless of who's sitting in the seats, their tickets will be revoked," said Houston Texans President Jamey Rootes. The team has never had to make a second call. The Bills have started to do the same thing.

This is a good one. Make the season ticket holders responsible for the idots they give their tickets to.

The Bills have also started using the old-fashioned method of public shame as a deterrent. Starting this season, the Orchard Park police are publicizing the names and addresses of people arrested at games. "The headline in the paper after the first game was '23 arrested at Bills game,' " said Mr. Clark, the Bills' security chief. He credits the policy for cutting the number of arrests in half for the second home game.

This is a bad idea. I don't mind the names, I just don't think using the addresses is a good idea. I know it's public information, but you can have alot of Steve Bartman incedences happening.

[pjfootballer]

:applause:

[i think because of that experience I have less patience with todays Stars. I can't remember John Riggins coming out of any game at least I can't recall an instance of that happening. Same for the Hogs. I know Jeff Bostic had a hard injury to come back from and it took him a few years but he did it. Plus the injuries weren't so frequent and monlithic throught the league like it is today. I remember well the body bag game in Philly and man that was brutal. But that was the exception not the norm back then. And to tell yoo the truth I really can't figure out why this is happening.

With all the modern nutrition and training these guys to through it makes me wonder if something isn't a little fishy.

Didn't want to quote the whole block, but this post needs to be archived, but in a glass covered frame and only be brought out in times of emergency. Greatest post ever. :applause:

[onnie007]

I haven't lost faith and I don't hate the team and I am not hating on dropped balls or fumbles, as they happen in football.

I just can't get out of my head, ........Moss "benching" himself. Giving up on his team. No confidence. If you want to be a leader, taking yourself out of a game does not show leadership. Plead for the rock one more time and make up for your mistake....don't quit.

Ummm, I think you misunderstood the gesture. Santana was very upset with himself for the tip that turned into an INT, the fumble and the 8 dropped passes. He was understandly frustrated and felt he was hurting rather than helping his team so he took himself out. He put the team first and thats why he did what he did. You totally misinterpreted what he did there. I am expecting a career game out of him this week. I have watched him since his days at Miami and he has NEVER had a game like that.

[Taylor 36]

It's beginning to look a lot like Philly.......

Seriously, fans just need to calm down and not post in the heat of moment of a loss.