GrimReefa Posted October 9, 2007 Share Posted October 9, 2007 Thanks to Mike Shanahan, the newest craze in football - college and pro - is a coach anticipating a snap on a would-be game-winning figgie and trying to beat it with a time-out. This strikes me as extremely poor strategy. Yes, I know it "worked" in week two, but Janikowski is a notoriously inaccurate kicker anyway; there is no reason to believe that the time-out had anything to do with him missing the second kick. Since then, the tactic has been tried unsuccessfully by Urban Meyer in the Florida/Auburn game and last night by Dick Jauron. Both times the kicker, being better than Janikowski (who isn't?), nailed both tries. Think about it this way, by calling a time-out and nullifying the first attempt, all you are really doing is giving the kicker a practice run. If he misses it, no big deal; he gets another chance, and maybe he adjusts his next kick to compensate for what went wrong the first time. If he makes it, then he goes into the "real thing" with the confidence that comes from knowing he can make it. How that is supposed to have any sort of negative effect on a PK is beyond me, either way. Back to Janikowski. Everybody's favorite Polish Seminole is the poster boy for why you never, EVER, draft a kicker in the first day, let alone in round freaking 1. Sebastian has a career 76.1% field goal conversion rate, which is 3.1% lower than our unheralded (to say the least) kicker, Shaun Suisham. Matt Stover, the Ravens excellent kicker, is at 83.7%. Not only that, but at 50+ yards (the would-be winning kick was from 52), Janikowski had been a career 9/25. Shanahan was icing Janikowski on a kick that he had a 36% chance of making, anyway. The counter-arguement to this is that Janikowski DID make the first attempt, and by calling the time-out Shanahan was forcing him to make two in a row. Perhaps you can already see the flaw in this line of thinking. Shanahan had NO WAY OF KNOWING that Janikowski was going to make that first kick, unless he has some sort of psychic power, in which case you have to question his decision to not call in sick last Sunday. The fact is, Janikowski only had to make 1 out of 2 attempts - the problem is he made the wrong one. If he had honked the first try - which the odds suggested was the probable outcome - and then made the re-do, Shanahan would have been the laughingstock of football, and this ridiculous "strategy" would have never seen the light of day again. I'm guessing it is only a matter of time before a kicker honks one of these practice tries and then makes the one that matters. Let's hope it's not Joe Gibbs who is the victim of his own cleverness. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
G.A.C.O.L.B. Posted October 9, 2007 Share Posted October 9, 2007 I can't believe Janikowski was selected in the first round. Geez, what the hell were they thinking? Good post though. And I would add that the supposed strategy is annoying as hell. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
d0ublestr0ker0ll Posted October 9, 2007 Share Posted October 9, 2007 The fact is, Janikowski only had to make 1 out of 2 attempts - the problem is he made the wrong one. If he had honked the first try - which the odds suggested was the probable outcome - and then made the re-do, Shanahan would have been the laughingstock of football, and this ridiculous "strategy" would have never seen the light of day again.I'm guessing it is only a matter of time before a kicker honks one of these practice tries and then makes the one that matters. Let's hope it's not Joe Gibbs who is the victim of his own cleverness. First off, Janikowski didn't "only have to make 1 out of 2 attempts", if only one kick is the "right one to make." That would make it that Janikowski had to make 1 of 1 attempts. Period. Secondly, Shanahan wouldn't have been the laughingstock of football, for this strategy has been around for a good amount of time. Third, it will be a matter of time before a kicker misses the first, makes the second, and debate insues. But hasn't there been a lot of time for this to happen? How many times has it happened? I'd really like to know. Otherwise, my take is that icing the kicker is a decent strategy. If you have 1 timeout left, use it. But I AGREE that the coach shouldn't time it so the kicker gets a practice shot. Neverthless, taking the kicker away from the practice tee on the sideline is a countdown to a leg cooling off. Get the kicker out on the field, make him jog to the middle, make him stationary, make the team get set, call the time out, make the kicker run all the way back to the sideline, he maybe goes to the tee again, has to run back out, and kick it. The whole process is enough for the kicking muscles to not be as warm as they were when the kicker first took the field - before the timeout. The muscle memory has declined, and the kicker has that much more time to absorb the pressure around him. Sure, he takes some practice swings when he gets out on the field before any kick - but the practice tee is wear a kicker gets in the groove. Take him out of it, by any means. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GrimReefa Posted October 9, 2007 Author Share Posted October 9, 2007 To clarify: my point wasn't that icing the kicker is a bad strategy. Honestly, I have no idea whether that works or not. My point was that THE WAY Shanahan did it - and since then, the way Meyer and Jauron did it - i.e., timing the timeout so that the kicker is essentially given a practice kick - is not clever, it's counterproductive - a point we seem to agree on. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Monte51Coleman Posted October 9, 2007 Share Posted October 9, 2007 It's only a matter of time before a rule change stops this practice. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Larry Posted October 9, 2007 Share Posted October 9, 2007 I can't believe Janikowski was selected in the first round. Geez, what the hell were they thinking? 1) I seem to remember that, at FSU, he had something like 8 kickoffs that went through the goalposts. 2) As somebody pointed out, at the time they drafted him: In the previous two seasons, the Raiders had lost 11 games by 3 points or less. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Larry Posted October 9, 2007 Share Posted October 9, 2007 Third, it will be a matter of time before a kicker misses the first, makes the second, and debate insues. But hasn't there been a lot of time for this to happen? How many times has it happened? I'd really like to know. It's been tried three times. The results are: Make/miss Make/make Make/make Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Larry Posted October 9, 2007 Share Posted October 9, 2007 As to the OP: 1) You've over-analyzed this more than I would have. (That says something.) 2) I agree with you. If I'm a kicker, I'd waste one of my own time outs if I could get a practice kick from the same spot, under the same conditions, as the real one. I'd consider it an advantage. 3) I agree the practice should be made illegal. Too many people get injured in the NFL as it is, without having "this one play will win or lose the game right here" plays, where everybody finds out after the play that it "we were just joking, it doesn't really count." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DeMarco Murray 29 Posted October 9, 2007 Share Posted October 9, 2007 It's been tried three times. The results are: Make/miss Make/make Make/make I thought for sure the two makes would become misses though Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cassow Posted October 9, 2007 Share Posted October 9, 2007 When did Wade Phillips do this last night?? Don't you mean Dick Jauron? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mass_SkinsFan Posted October 9, 2007 Share Posted October 9, 2007 I've got a much better strategy.... Never be involved in a game that is so close at the end that a last second fieldgoal could win or lose the game. When you're up by 21 it doesn't make a difference. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SkinsHokieFan Posted October 9, 2007 Share Posted October 9, 2007 I find the gamesmanship quite entertaining If they have the timeout, I see no reason to restrict their use Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TennCowboy Posted October 9, 2007 Share Posted October 9, 2007 I find the gamesmanship quite entertainingIf they have the timeout, I see no reason to restrict their use My concern with it is that the side judge might blow the whistle for the TO, even if the snap was before the TO is called. Last night, the whistle clearly blew before the snap, but we'll eventually see a call where the coach doesn't call it til after the snap, but the side judge blows the whistle anyway.I think we'll see a rule change where only players can call a TO on a FG attempt. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TennCowboy Posted October 9, 2007 Share Posted October 9, 2007 First off, Janikowski didn't "only have to make 1 out of 2 attempts", if only one kick is the "right one to make." That would make it that Janikowski had to make 1 of 1 attempts. Period. Secondly, Shanahan wouldn't have been the laughingstock of football, for this strategy has been around for a good amount of time. Third, it will be a matter of time before a kicker misses the first, makes the second, and debate insues. But hasn't there been a lot of time for this to happen? How many times has it happened? I'd really like to know.Otherwise, my take is that icing the kicker is a decent strategy. If you have 1 timeout left, use it. But I AGREE that the coach shouldn't time it so the kicker gets a practice shot. Neverthless, taking the kicker away from the practice tee on the sideline is a countdown to a leg cooling off. Get the kicker out on the field, make him jog to the middle, make him stationary, make the team get set, call the time out, make the kicker run all the way back to the sideline, he maybe goes to the tee again, has to run back out, and kick it. The whole process is enough for the kicking muscles to not be as warm as they were when the kicker first took the field - before the timeout. The muscle memory has declined, and the kicker has that much more time to absorb the pressure around him. Sure, he takes some practice swings when he gets out on the field before any kick - but the practice tee is wear a kicker gets in the groove. Take him out of it, by any means. Jason Elam said after the game that Janikowski's 2nd FG - the one he missed - was the longest kick he's ever seen. He said it would've gone 70 yards easily. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DallasCowboyFan156 Posted October 9, 2007 Share Posted October 9, 2007 I hate that this is legal. It's legal but I still think it's cheap. I hope the league does something at the end of the season so teams can't do this. By the way, how long before this thing backfires on a team and a kicker misses the first and nails the second? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FanboyOf91 Posted October 9, 2007 Share Posted October 9, 2007 It's a retarded rule, and I wish Shanahan would lose a close game himself to it as karmic justice. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GrimReefa Posted October 9, 2007 Author Share Posted October 9, 2007 When did Wade Phillips do this last night?? Don't you mean Dick Jauron? Good call. Fixed. I've got a much better strategy.... Never be involved in a game that is so close at the end that a last second fieldgoal could win or lose the game. When you're up by 21 it doesn't make a difference. Don't let it ever be said that you add nothing of substance to a conversation. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mass_SkinsFan Posted October 9, 2007 Share Posted October 9, 2007 Don't let it ever be said that you add nothing of substance to a conversation. I wasn't trying to add anything, Reefa; just stating the obvious... if the team does its job right this is a situation you should absolutely never have to worry about. If it becomes something you have to worry about you probably deserve to lose the game anyway. I'm definitely not losing any sleep over it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Heidenreich Posted October 9, 2007 Share Posted October 9, 2007 THe Raiders did it to Cleveland in week three. It was made on the first try, blocked the second try.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bliz Posted October 9, 2007 Share Posted October 9, 2007 I find the gamesmanship quite entertaining I don't. Bad sportsmanship =/= gamesmanship Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
theTruthTeller Posted October 9, 2007 Share Posted October 9, 2007 As to the OP: 1) You've over-analyzed this more than I would have. (That says something.) 2) I agree with you. If I'm a kicker, I'd waste one of my own time outs if I could get a practice kick from the same spot, under the same conditions, as the real one. I'd consider it an advantage. 3) I agree the practice should be made illegal. Too many people get injured in the NFL as it is, without having "this one play will win or lose the game right here" plays, where everybody finds out after the play that it "we were just joking, it doesn't really count." #2 is an awesome idea - call the TO and snap the ball immediately to give your kicker a practice kick. Its amazing that no one has ever tried it. All the coach would have to do is tell the holder that he'll call the TO with (for example) 5 seconds left on the game clock, the holder calls for the snap just after 5 is reached. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SC3 Posted October 10, 2007 Share Posted October 10, 2007 Yeah that practice of calling the time out before the FG snap is getting very annoying. They need to do something about it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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