Early prediction for Baltimore.

[Lombardi's_kid_brother]

From Williams, who's already done this.

I have absolutely no memory of that game so I googled it. We got beat 28-3 and apparently kept tripping over our collective, um, thing on offense. We were down 14-3 at halftime and I can't imagine that any starters played in the second half.

Did Williams ever tell anyone that he intetionally embarrassed the D in that game? Because it looks like Gibbs might have tried the same thing with the offense that night - and through much of 2004.

I have just honestly never heard of a coach doing something this, certainly not at a pro level.

[bobzmuda]

That wouldn't surprise me at all. Williams is a big fan of knocking his people down a peg or two.

[bobzmuda]

I have absolutely no memory of that game so I googled it. We got beat 28-3 and apparently kept tripping over our collective' date=' um, thing on offense. We were down 14-3 at halftime and I can't imagine that any starters played in the second half.

Did Williams ever tell anyone that he intetionally embarrassed the D in that game? Because it looks like Gibbs might have tried the same thing with the offense that night - and through much of 2004.

I have just honestly never heard of a coach doing something this, certainly not at a pro level.[/quote']

Did you watch the Cowboys/Broncos preseason game?

The Broncos are built to blitz with those young pass-rushers and cover with those corners they have. Denver's DC, Jim Bates, called a ton of zone, with most coming out of the same basic 4-3 cover-2 look. He called a game that didn't match up at all with his personnel.

It's not just about knocking folks down a peg or two, it's also a good way to evaluate personnel without scheme covering up for individual deficiencies.

[SkinsHokieFan]

I have absolutely no memory of that game so I googled it. We got beat 28-3 and apparently kept tripping over our collective' date=' um, thing on offense. We were down 14-3 at halftime and I can't imagine that any starters played in the second half.

Did Williams ever tell anyone that he intetionally embarrassed the D in that game? Because it looks like Gibbs might have tried the same thing with the offense that night - and through much of 2004.

I have just honestly never heard of a coach doing something this, certainly not at a pro level.[/quote']

It was quite obvious watching that game that our D had no shot

Stephen Jackson was running down our throats, missed tackles, and our DB's left on an island the whole game

It was probably the worst the D looked the entire season

[FuriousD]

These games are about talent evaluation and building cohesion. Why on earth would you force players on the bubble into a position to fail? How does this benefit your team?

I'm sorry, I'm not buying it!

Frankly, whatever we think about what Williams might or might not do, this is Joe Gibbs team. I feel pretty sure that he would not condone Williams deliberately putting players who are trying their collective damnest to make the team into bad positions.

Hasn't Gibbs already stated that this year there will be an added emphisis on WINNING these games noting that last years lackluster preseason performances were a principle reason the team got off to a slow start?

How does this theory dovetail with Gibbs desires???

[Siven]

I hate when fans drink the Kool-aide, but you need to put down your bottle of hateraid. Seriously, how can you honestly say what I have high-lighted above???

Cause Ed Reed is better than Sean Taylor at this point in their careers?

uhhh what?

You're what we call.... a blind homer with burgundy and gold tinted glasses.

[zoony]

Art I gotta go with ArmchairRedskin on this one. Although not a terrible prediction... just not feelin' it.

My only prediction is that Todd Collins will start, Brunell will play the 2nd half.

....

[Walking Deadman]

NO INJURIES!!!!!

One can hope right :point2sky

[Walking Deadman]

Great,

I'll have to deal with a bunch of Ravens fans whooping it up next Saturday....yay

[C26 Run]

A complete difference than the scimmage, that's all I ask. :helmet:

[chipwhich]

I think they faked Jasons knee bruise so he doesn't get hurt against the Ravens D.

[Craig]

So if we suck, then everything went to plan. But if we do good, then the plan was changed.

Ok so long as our bases our covered.

lol...classic. :applause:

[bobzmuda]

I can't imagine them playing Jason at all, regardless of how good he feels. He's coming off a near catastrophic knee injury, he's going to have Heyer and Wade again probably, and he would be facing the Ravens' blitz-happy D whose first-string will be getting ready for their season opener by playing their starters probably an entire half.

[Deefense]

Im more worried about our O against Baltimores D. Think our D will shine again, no matter what GW does.

[fansince62]

Kind of.

If what he did against the Rams happens again it won't be so much sucking on purpose as leaving guys in positions alone with no help and displaying to them they are not invincible. The Rams game when he first came in was an excellent coaching technique to get the team to fully buy in to his preaching.

Last year's team kind of rejected what he was doing. It actually may not work again to do it to them, but, with two strong performances, if you need to show something to them, you show it by making sure you leave guys on islands and reveal to them how much the scheme helps them, assuming Baltimore takes advanatage.

may happen...but sounds like there is a deeper problem somewhere along the line: a coach who has to assert his ego/will after 2 preseason games with essentially only one new starter he has never worked with before (LL)...or players who become invincible based on less than 4 qtrs of football. either way...sounds....ummmm...unnecessary to me.

[shawn]

The defense has played so well for two games, I'm going to guess Williams has a St. Louis moment as he did a couple years ago in the third preseason game. It'll be a little harder to pull off against the Ravens offense than the Rams at the time, but, Williams will identify the strengths of the Ravens offense and players and call plays that directly force our guys into their weakest abilities. The Ravens will shred us.

And after the game, Williams will be grinning up a storm, knowing he just kept the chip on the shoulder of a defense that was terrible a year ago and may just be starting to think it isn't so bad now. When Williams came in he took over a defense that was awful. One that had a "desperate" need on the defensive line. One that couldn't do anything right. And he dominated with it.

But, he dominated with it after displaying to it against the Rams that no matter how good they thought they were, they could get shredded but for making the right reads within the scheme. Our defense looks faster than it did at any point last year. It looks like it has the pieces to be difficult to figure out. And, it's probably the perfect time to remind them how no one thinks they are any good so they enter the season steaming.

sounds like you setting up for an excuse. no matter what happens you are the winner. if the defense sucks, then you predicted it. if the defense plays good, then you gloat.

excuses, excuses, excuses. how stupid of a coach to set up his team for a failure. if the defense was one of the best, in the past few years maybe...but this defense has question marks all over it...except with the redskins fans who always think their team is absolute best and the rest of the world just doesn't understand.

[SKINS FAN #56]

Im more worried about our O against Baltimores D. Think our D will shine again, no matter what GW does.

Yeah, I think the theory came from him doing the same thing over and over but our defense will do great regardless of what he does. The players will be the same.

Itll be a close one. Theyre a defensive team, and so are we so far from what ive seen. But we had some nice sparks out there against the Steelers. Thats was our game!

[#98QBKiller]

I doubt it. He's going to see how the defense can handle the Ravens offense which was a pass-happy offense last year.

I suspect our secondary will get some good work in via GW's schemes.

[Art]

I have absolutely no memory of that game so I googled it. We got beat 28-3 and apparently kept tripping over our collective' date=' um, thing on offense. We were down 14-3 at halftime and I can't imagine that any starters played in the second half.

Did Williams ever tell anyone that he intetionally embarrassed the D in that game? Because it looks like Gibbs might have tried the same thing with the offense that night - and through much of 2004.

I have just honestly never heard of a coach doing something this, certainly not at a pro level.[/quote']

Our offense in 2004 was simply bad much of the season. Our defense was largely great. After that game, Williams was positively beaming. He left his starting secondary, and especially Taylor, in situations he would never normally leave them. At that time he needed Taylor to really come to grips with the speed of the game because everything was so easy for him. After the game during his interviews he seemed to be almost holding back laughter. This was a particularly bad game after a particularly good one. It is not at all abnormal to use the preseason to do things with your players you understand they may not be suited for in order to reinforce something else you're doing. The difference between then and now, of course, is then, he was teaching everything new. Now he's got guys who may not need such an event to understand how fine an edge there is between success and failure as a unit.

[Major Harris]

Sooo....We're gonna suck on purpose?

Cool.

I mean.

What?

now, i think art is on to something. but a more fun prediction thread will be how many chicken little threads we have by noon sunday.

[Art]

sounds like you setting up for an excuse. no matter what happens you are the winner. if the defense sucks, then you predicted it. if the defense plays good, then you gloat.

excuses, excuses, excuses. how stupid of a coach to set up his team for a failure. if the defense was one of the best, in the past few years maybe...but this defense has question marks all over it...except with the redskins fans who always think their team is absolute best and the rest of the world just doesn't understand.

As I've alluded in this thread, the fact the defense is largely in tact from last year and it was as bad as it was, the tactic of not helping it out very much from a playcalling standpoint may not be necessary. This defense is very talented and even deep. It has an obvious lack of a dominating pass rusher. The questions surrounding it are less about the players and possibilities provided the talent and more about the coaching staff and players remaining on the same page and overcoming last year, along with the consideration that if teams got a read on Williams a year ago, can he change what he does enough to get back on top of them.

I would be very pleased with another strong defensive outing, but, would be unlikely to gloat about anything the preseason shows. I also would not be surprised if Williams orchestrates a teaching tool out of this game. With Washington out and this the last real action before the regular season, it seems very much like Williams to have two weeks to beat guys up about how they play this week so they come in against Miami at their most frustrated and angry, and with hope, best.

[GSF]

From what I remember of that St. Louis game, it was mostly Sean Taylor he left in tough situations, matching him up one on one against Holt and the other receivers. Like you said, he was giving him a crash course in the speed of the nfl.

I think Williams is in a totally different mode this preseason, trying to get the defense's confidence and swagger back.

I would not be surprised at all however, to see Williams call a lot of basic man defenses, forcing the corners to cover one on one, and the dline to generate a pass rush.

[InsaneBoost]

I can see a win because they're pissed about the last game. but we'll see what happens.

[Lombardi's_kid_brother]

Our offense in 2004 was simply bad much of the season. Our defense was largely great. After that game, Williams was positively beaming. He left his starting secondary, and especially Taylor, in situations he would never normally leave them. At that time he needed Taylor to really come to grips with the speed of the game because everything was so easy for him. After the game during his interviews he seemed to be almost holding back laughter. This was a particularly bad game after a particularly good one. It is not at all abnormal to use the preseason to do things with your players you understand they may not be suited for in order to reinforce something else you're doing. The difference between then and now, of course, is then, he was teaching everything new. Now he's got guys who may not need such an event to understand how fine an edge there is between success and failure as a unit.

I've said it before and I'll say it again:

If any NFL coach pulled the kind of ticky-tack high school JV stuff that I've seen suggested on this board over the years, he should be immediately fired.

Yes, coaches put players in unusual positions in the pre-season. But it is done as a test of their abilities. Not as a way to make them fail in order to increase a coach's svengali-like control over them.

(Of course, Greg Williams might actually believe that this "break them down to build them up," Buddy Ryan-esque nonsense actually works. Maybe I shouldn't put it past him. I would rather he figure out a way to get a sack from a lineman or linebacker).

I should also ask this question: Who remembers a pre-season game from three yeas ago? Heck, I don't remember Saturday's game. Of course, that may be because I didn't watch it.

[LoudMouth12thMan]

Well, I'm gonna go the other way and say that Williams isn't doing that this year. I would continue to put these guys in situations where they can use their strengths. Williams has said, "...everyone has a weakness and we're going to concentrate on what we do best to get the best results." Art, I feel you man, but I'm gonna have to disagree on this. With Fletcher, Springs, and all the vets I don't think that'll fly. They'll know that he's putting them in those situations. Unless, maybe he'll present it as a challenge to see if they can do some different things. I just don't want it to backfire like it did last season. Hell, with the way they've been flying to the ball I wouldn't be surprised to see them win that challenge. I don't think this D wants a team to score a single TD on them in the preseason. That would be something else. Not jumping to conclusions yet, but save the D-line (pass rush situation), this D is the real deal man.

HTTR