Early prediction for Baltimore.

[Leonard Washington]

i think he does it certain times, but the whole game?

that's a great way for a player to get hurt while trying to compensate for poor scheming. it's also a great way for players to recognize williams is playing head games and tune him out/rebel. i think he can pull it off on certain players at certain times but the whole unit? no way.

[communion5]

are you just excusing the redskins for losing this next preseason game, before it even happened.

[shallyshal]

i think a number of factors will play to the advantage of the ravens.

the skins o line is still in flux. especially if wade goes back to starting at LG

the skins will be forced to use a lot of reserves to make personnel decisions or to replace guys like washington

the skins are still in the mode of proving that they can stop the opponents run game

baltimore will be just as physical as pittsburgh

again, i think the first half will be very close and contested. something on the order of 7-3. but in the second half GW will sub liberally and will look to see which reserve corners can hold up 1 on 1 with receivers.

also, the defense cannot sustain more losses to it's key players, so i expect to see them in for less than a quarter

baltimore will pull away in the second half

[funguy1286]

I hate when fans drink the Kool-aide, but you need to put down your bottle of hateraid. Seriously, how can you honestly say what I have high-lighted above???

ummm because its true

[Aston]

I also would not be surprised if Williams orchestrates a teaching tool out of this game. With Washington out and this the last real action before the regular season, it seems very much like Williams to have two weeks to beat guys up about how they play this week so they come in against Miami at their most frustrated and angry, and with hope, best.

I like the idea, and definately see the St. Louis game as a valid case that it's been done before. The only thing that bothers me about this prediction is that this 'teaching tool' theory goes against the 'take the preseason seriously and try to win them all' strategy that Gibbs is obviously implementing.

Perhaps there's a bit of a middle ground. I think we don't eff around during the first half, and then we hang our third and fourth teams out to dry to teach and find out what they're made of.

[Lombardi's_kid_brother]

Perhaps there's a bit of a middle ground. I think we don't eff around during the first half, and then we hang our third and fourth teams out to dry to teach and find out what they're made of.

How is that the least bit fair?

"I know you are fighting for your professional life here. But I am going to intentionally embarrass you before I cut you so every team has game film of you getting beat relentlessly. Enjoy your life selling cars."

[Dirk Diggler]

Of course' date=' Greg Williams might actually believe that this "break them down to build them up," Buddy Ryan-esque nonsense actually works. [/quote']

Nonsense? Hard to argue with the type of defenses Ryan put out on the field. Hard to argue with Williams results so far this past decade. Very hard to argue against the 2 defenses that Rex and Rob Ryan put on the field each Sunday.

[Aston]

How is that the least bit fair?

"I know you are fighting for your professional life here. But I am going to intentionally embarrass you before I cut you so every team has game film of you getting beat relentlessly. Enjoy your life selling cars."

You're right, it's not fair, but that's the business of finding out who can play and who can't. If the guy is struggling to make the team, he's going to need to prove himself worthy of playing beyond expectation. For lineman and backers, that's taking on consistent double-teams. For the secondary, it's playing on an island. It's difficult to properly evaluate a player's true ability when he's enjoying the luxury of schematic advantage.

But I don't think Art's early prediction was implying that a Baltimore thrashing will come as a means to determine our third and fourth string. Rather, the original post seems to imply that GW may feel that by sending the players into tough situations (ones in which they will likely fail), it will keep them modest and hungry to prove themselves and not take any preseason success to their heads.

Kind of like bull fighting. To ensure the bulll comes out bucking like a lunatic on speed, you need to piss it off. Content, docile bulls make for lackluster shows, and so do defenses.

I guess that's the idea, anyway, if what Art says is true and this does in fact happen. Part of me thinks that the confidence boost would be more beneficial at this point, but I think GW knows what's best. My coaching experience consists of nothing more than a 1 win campaign in a Pee Wee division.

[skins84]

NNT anyone?

:laugh:

[Lombardi's_kid_brother]

Nonsense? Hard to argue with the type of defenses Ryan put out on the field. Hard to argue with Williams results so far this past decade. Very hard to argue against the 2 defenses that Rex and Rob Ryan put on the field each Sunday.

Oh, I think Ryan was a genius from a tactical standpoint. I think he was a complete moron when it came to managing his personne,l and I think it's why he only ended up with one Super Bowl Ring despite revolutionizing the league.

I think Williams is a tactical genius as well. I think Williams is terrible in managing people which is why he was a lousy head coach and which is why he ends up in a blood feud with a new player each year.

If Joey Porter has taught us anything (and I believe you would agree he has), it is that besides outstanding abs, the most important thing to a football player is "being respected." I think if you intentionally try to embarrass your players, they will feel a lack of respect. If they feel a lack of respect, they will have their dogs eat your your miniature horses.

[Leonard Washington]

You're right, it's not fair, but that's the business of finding out who can play and who can't. If the guy is struggling to make the team, he's going to need to prove himself worthy of playing beyond expectation. For lineman and backers, that's taking on consistent double-teams. For the secondary, it's playing on an island. It's difficult to properly evaluate a player's true ability when he's enjoying the luxury of schematic advantage.

that is the part that confuses me. my guess is you want players who can execute their assignments. what is the point of having a db playing 2 receivers with no help? to see if he is lucky?

williams puts people in 1:1 situations to see what they can do. no way is he telling a single DL-man to rush the qb while the rest stand around and occupy blocks. the intentionally embarass player bs is stupid.

[Art]

I've said it before and I'll say it again:

If any NFL coach pulled the kind of ticky-tack high school JV stuff that I've seen suggested on this board over the years' date=' he should be immediately fired.

Yes, coaches put players in unusual positions in the pre-season. But it is done as a test of their abilities. Not as a way to make them fail in order to increase a coach's svengali-like control over them.

(Of course, Greg Williams might actually believe that this "break them down to build them up," Buddy Ryan-esque nonsense actually works. Maybe I shouldn't put it past him. I would rather he figure out a way to get a sack from a lineman or linebacker).

I should also ask this question: Who remembers a pre-season game from three yeas ago? Heck, I don't remember Saturday's game. Of course, that may be because I didn't watch it.[/quote']

Lombardi,

The fact you have no recall of recent history is why something so very common seems so strange to you. Thankfully you express your lack of qualifications to offer fair critique in this thread openly, so, I don't hold it against you that you don't understand how common it is, even while stating you understand how common it is .

[Aston]

that is the part that confuses me. my guess is you want players who can execute their assignments. what is the point of having a db playing 2 receivers with no help? to see if he is lucky?

williams puts people in 1:1 situations to see what they can do. no way is he telling a single DL-man to rush the qb while the rest stand around and occupy blocks. the intentionally embarass player bs is stupid.

I think we're blowing this out of proportion a bit. First, I never said anything about embaressing anyone, just putting them in situations where the scheme doesn't help them. And I'm not sure where the DB covering 2 receivers came from either. Regardless, the idea is that GW doesn't want our guys to let a few decent defensive performances in the preseason to lead them to a state of unmotivation that Griffin referred to.

[Chachie]

I think it's pretty well established (especially in preseason) that Baltimore can handle the our Redskins without Greg Williams' help.

[Art]

I like the idea, and definately see the St. Louis game as a valid case that it's been done before. The only thing that bothers me about this prediction is that this 'teaching tool' theory goes against the 'take the preseason seriously and try to win them all' strategy that Gibbs is obviously implementing.

Perhaps there's a bit of a middle ground. I think we don't eff around during the first half, and then we hang our third and fourth teams out to dry to teach and find out what they're made of.

Pointless to hang guys who largely won't be around out to dry. Hang guys who will be around out. Put Landry in man coverage against the slot receiver. Don't stunt up front and call two-way reads instead of allowing gaps to be hit. Put Rogers and Smoot in as starters. Pull the safety help away from each in a way you don't disguise. Force guys into unfavorable situations and teach them how the actual defense helps them. That's what this game could prove to be for Williams. But, again, there is a valid point that after last year, the defense needs to rebuild confidence perhaps more than worrying about overconfidence.

[Vinnick]

I think if Collins starts, and he stays with the starters for 2+ quarters. We get 6-13 points.

If Brunell starts, I think we get 2-6 points with the starters.

I think if Heyer starts with Wade at LG. We give up 4 sacks in the 1st half.

We win, but don't learn much about the team. The defense will give up a TD.

[Captain James]

I don't remember who just said this but I agree with them... I have honestly already seen most of what I wanted to see this preseason. I know we still have a lot to work on and to strengthen, but I've also seen that we can play football if when we need to. Yeah there are areas that need slight improvement, but I'm sure we can all say that we already look muuuuuch better than last year. Before our game against the Steelers I was saying that I didn't care if we lost but only that we would put up a good game. We did that. That same request now carries over to the Ravens game. Skins, please just play well and show us that you got skills.

[chipwhich]

Pointless to hang guys who largely won't be around out to dry. Hang guys who will be around out. Put Landry in man coverage against the slot receiver. Don't stunt up front and call two-way reads instead of allowing gaps to be hit. Put Rogers and Smoot in as starters. Pull the safety help away from each in a way you don't disguise. Force guys into unfavorable situations and teach them how the actual defense helps them. That's what this game could prove to be for Williams. But, again, there is a valid point that after last year, the defense needs to rebuild confidence perhaps more than worrying about overconfidence.

You wouldn't do this against Baltimore anyway? Their only health receiving threat is Heap. Mason and Clayton are injured. I would hope we could man to man their receivers. They aren't the most prolific passing offense anyway.

[Art]

You wouldn't do this against Baltimore anyway? Their only health receiving threat is Heap. Mason and Clayton are injured. I would hope we could man to man their receivers. They aren't the most prolific passing offense anyway.

Understood. I had said in the first post it would be harder to do it against Baltimore because they aren't that good on offense typically.

[Dirk Diggler]

I think Williams is a tactical genius as well. I think Williams is terrible in managing people ...

Who did he fail to manage properly in Buffalo and Tennessee?

It would have been interesting to see what Arrington would have done in 2004 had he not been injured. But injury excuse aside' date=' we can't debate that Arrington failed to play his best under Williams. The same can be said about Adam Archuleta.

But what about the players who had their best seasons under Williams? Seasons that were better than what they had done under other Skins defensive staffs? Seasons that players couldn't duplicate once they hit it big in free agency?

I'd say that Smoot, Springs, Griffin, Salavea, Washington, Pierce, and Clark all had their best seasons in Washington with Williams "managing" them. Does that count for anything? Or are we just going to focus on the soap opera created by one prima donna man-child? A player who couldn't seem to get along with any coach not named Schottenheimer.

....which is why he was a lousy head coach and which is why he ends up in a blood feud with a new player each year.

1) Who was the blood feud with in 2004? Who is the blood feud with this season?

2) Buffalo failed for a number of reasons from 2001-2003. But let's just say that it wasn't the easiest assignment around. He had Drew Bledsoe as his QB and the team was absolutely gutted to get under the cap. Regardless I'm not really concerned about his abilities as a head coach. What matters to me is if he can get a defense ready to play. He's proven he can at every single stop he's made.

[phatboy41]

I'm actually thinking we'll get beat pretty bad. The Ravens play rough preseason games, and though they lost, they looked a lot crazier than us on their last preseason outing. If we can dominate their first team offensive line I think that will be great.

[Art]

Williams has demonstrated since coming here he manages people great. The people he's coached and coached with speak highly of him. Many have come to follow him here. Indeed, there was some static with Arrington, but, that's not on Williams. That's on Arrington who got along with poorly with most in authority. Williams is generally considered a players coach in that players respond very well to him and enjoy his style of coaching because where he will rip a guy for a mistake in private, he won't do it in public, and, he will give guys compliments in public and private for their good plays.

[JC girl]

So if we suck, then everything went to plan. But if we do good, then the plan was changed.

Ok so long as our bases our covered.

Hahahah. Nice. Love it.

[mrdoctor]

It will be a great battle of the defense. I cant wait til saturday the stadium is gonna be ROCKN

[mrdoctor]

Lombardi,

The fact you have no recall of recent history is why something so very common seems so strange to you. Thankfully you express your lack of qualifications to offer fair critique in this thread openly, so, I don't hold it against you that you don't understand how common it is, even while stating you understand how common it is .

Words of trickery. Dangerous avenue or confusion enlightened by hope