DixieFlatline Posted August 16, 2007 Share Posted August 16, 2007 just a blurb on Drudge. Anyone know anything about this or this area of research? http://www.telegraph.co.uk/earth/main.jhtml?xml=/earth/2007/08/16/scispeed116.xml A pair of German physicists claim to have broken the speed of light - an achievement that would undermine our entire understanding of space and time. According to Einstein's special theory of relativity, it would require an infinite amount of energy to propel an object at more than 186,000 miles per second. However, Dr Gunter Nimtz and Dr Alfons Stahlhofen, of the University of Koblenz, say they may have breached a key tenet of that theory. The pair say they have conducted an experiment in which microwave photons - energetic packets of light - travelled "instantaneously" between a pair of prisms that had been moved up to 3ft apart. Being able to travel faster than the speed of light would lead to a wide variety of bizarre consequences. For instance, an astronaut moving faster than it would theoretically arrive at a destination before leaving. The scientists were investigating a phenomenon called quantum tunnelling, which allows sub-atomic particles to break apparently unbreakable laws. Dr Nimtz told New Scientist magazine: "For the time being, this is the only violation of special relativity that I know of." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Leonard Washington Posted August 16, 2007 Share Posted August 16, 2007 i saw that...tunneling is a very interesting phenomenon. i wonder how they separate tunneling vs. measuring error. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DixieFlatline Posted August 16, 2007 Author Share Posted August 16, 2007 i saw that...tunneling is a very interesting phenomenon. i wonder how they separate tunneling vs. measuring error. If I knew what you were talking about, I might be able to answer you. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jbooma Posted August 16, 2007 Share Posted August 16, 2007 wow that is crazy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HOF44 Posted August 16, 2007 Share Posted August 16, 2007 The scientists were investigating a phenomenon called quantum tunnelling, which allows sub-atomic particles to break apparently unbreakable laws. Duh, it's only been on Star Trek forever, it's called sub-space. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Henry Posted August 16, 2007 Share Posted August 16, 2007 Beam me up, Scotty! Yeeeeeeehaaaaaw! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ellis Posted August 16, 2007 Share Posted August 16, 2007 One step closer to understanding the universe. I'm all for it! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Predicto Posted August 16, 2007 Share Posted August 16, 2007 i saw that...tunneling is a very interesting phenomenon. i wonder how they separate tunneling vs. measuring error. Exactly. This is like that Korean guy who claimed to have achieved cold fusion. Let's wait and see if the results can be replicated by others before we get too excited. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rincewind Posted August 16, 2007 Share Posted August 16, 2007 Finally, now I can make the Kessel Run in less than 12 parsecs. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Johnny Punani Posted August 16, 2007 Share Posted August 16, 2007 This sounds like what happens within a function of hawking radiation (virtual particles). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Predicto Posted August 16, 2007 Share Posted August 16, 2007 Duh, it's only been on Star Trek forever, it's called sub-space. I thought that was a just a term in the S&M community.... errr, or so they say :paranoid: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cdowwe Posted August 16, 2007 Share Posted August 16, 2007 One step closer to understanding the universe.I'm all for it! Not that I know anything about this, but wouldnt it take us further away from understanding the universe, since a ton of what scientists say about the universe is based on the theory of relativity. And this supposedly violates that theory? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jnhay Posted August 16, 2007 Share Posted August 16, 2007 Wow, that's a big discovery if they can prove it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HOF44 Posted August 16, 2007 Share Posted August 16, 2007 Well they better not have broken it in VA. The civil fines for that would be incredible!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DixieFlatline Posted August 16, 2007 Author Share Posted August 16, 2007 Well they better not have broken it in VA. The civil fines for that would be incredible!! Yeah...but they aren't residents. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Corcaigh Posted August 16, 2007 Share Posted August 16, 2007 This article says so little it is hard to tell if this is anything new. From what's reported it doesn't look any different from phenomena known for at least several decades. Heisenberg's uncertainty principle provides an explanation for this. Quoting from one abstract ... "In quantum tunnelling, what appears an infinitely fast barrier traversal can be explained in terms of an Aharonov-like weak measurement of the tunnelling time, in which the role of the pointer is played by the particle's own coordinate. A relativistic wavepacket is shown to be reshaped through a series of subluminal shifts which together produce an anomalous 'superluminal' result." Got it? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HOF44 Posted August 16, 2007 Share Posted August 16, 2007 From what's reported it doesn't look any different from phenomena known for at least several decades. Heisenberg's uncertainty principle provides an explanation for this. I don't know about all that, but when the Heisenberg Compensator breaks down on the transporter it's a pain in the butt! Wiki Link Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PeterMP Posted August 16, 2007 Share Posted August 16, 2007 This article says so little it is hard to tell if this is anything new.From what's reported it doesn't look any different from phenomena known for at least several decades. Heisenberg's uncertainty principle provides an explanation for this. Quoting from one abstract ... "In quantum tunnelling, what appears an infinitely fast barrier traversal can be explained in terms of an Aharonov-like weak measurement of the tunnelling time, in which the role of the pointer is played by the particle's own coordinate. A relativistic wavepacket is shown to be reshaped through a series of subluminal shifts which together produce an anomalous 'superluminal' result." Got it? Heisenberg's uncertainty principle deals w/ electrons, and electrons certainly tunnel so in that respect that wouldn't be anything new. The thing w/ electrons is they don't have a constant velocity so you have to measure velocity, but in doing so you affect the position and vice versa (identifying position affects velocity) so you can never know both exactly. Light is different because light's velocity, to my knowledge, is a constant in a particular medium (e.g. the speed of light is the speed light travels through a vacum. It travels that speed in all vacumes. The speed of light in pure water is different than in a vacum, but will always be the same as in water) so you don't have the uncertainity issues. I've never heard of light or photons tunneling. I don't know much about this, but that seems like it would be new. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dan T. Posted August 16, 2007 Share Posted August 16, 2007 That must have taken what, 1.21 gigawatts of power!?! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AsburySkinsFan Posted August 16, 2007 Share Posted August 16, 2007 Interesting test, I'm wondering...if they speed it up will the "photon" show up at the destination before they send it? Man, that'll turn your head around if you think about it. Kinda brings up some issues about future and fate and such. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Corcaigh Posted August 16, 2007 Share Posted August 16, 2007 I suppose I should add some comments that relativity and quantum mechanics are at odds in certain areas and this is well known. The Bell test, which showed 'spooky action at a distance' seems to contradict GR - Einstein called it a violation of physics as it required 'supraluminal' (aka faster than light) velocities. So Einstein has been wrong before about stuff like this. I think evaporation of black holes suggested by Hawking again requires faster than light quantum tunnelling effects. As a whole, because relativity ignores quantum processes it is incomplete and arguably not totally correct.:geek: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Henry Posted August 16, 2007 Share Posted August 16, 2007 That must have taken what, 1.21 gigawatts of power!?! But ... the only thing that can generate that much power is a bolt of lightning! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AsburySkinsFan Posted August 16, 2007 Share Posted August 16, 2007 As a whole, because relativity ignores quantum processes it is incomplete and arguably not totally correct.:geek: I thought only politicians did this. Sorry, but this conversation is way over my head, and this is all I have to offer. I wish I could offer my :2cents: but I'd need change. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PeterMP Posted August 16, 2007 Share Posted August 16, 2007 I suppose I should add some comments that relativity and quantum mechanics are at odds in certain areas and this is well known. The Bell test, which showed 'spooky action at a distance' seems to contradict GR - Einstein called it a violation of physics as it required supraluminal velocities. So Einstein has been wrong before about stuff like this. I think evaporation of black holes suggested by Hawking again requireds faster than light quantum tunnelling effects. As a whole, because relativity ignores quantum processes it is incomplete and arguably not totally correct.:geek: Essentially in Physics there are two sets of rules. General relativity and quantum mechanics. General relativity speaks very much in terms of absolutes (e.g. the force of gravitiy = m1*m2/(r*r)). Quantum mechanics is very much in terms of probabilities (e.g. there is some probability that the electrons in the floor that are holding me up will quit being repulsive to the electrons on the chair I'm sitting on, and I will fall through the floor). Einstein didn't like this, and it is his objections to that that his famous, 'God doesn't play dice w/ the Universe' statement comes from. He spent much of his later life trying to reconcile general relativity and quantum mechanics. This is actually where string theory is suppossed to come into play, which I know essentially nothing about, except that it indicates that there are many (~20 I think) other dimensions. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popeman38 Posted August 16, 2007 Share Posted August 16, 2007 Interesting test, I'm wondering...if they speed it up will the "photon" show up at the destination before they send it? Man, that'll turn your head around if you think about it.Kinda brings up some issues about future and fate and such. I bet Bush and Cheney will use this to change the future and subnert civil liberties! Don't worry ASF, there ar many people on this board who would need change, including me.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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