Pats FO vs Skins FO

[Taylor 36]

Why? In my view its simple:

1. Dan Snyder: He makes the final decisions and absolutely has the most influence over our organization. Unfortunately, he has made horrible after horrible decision. The second we overachieve and make the playoffs, its broken with the hopes of SB glory where we overpay for FA who contribute little to absolutely nothing to team. Deion Sanders. Adam Archuletta. T.J. Duckett. The list goes ON...and ON.

2. Win now philosophy: This is due to no.1, obviously, because Snyder is impatient. Instead of building a good team and a good organization that can win consistantly (like the recent Patriots and Colts), we have forfeitted much of our draft this year, and possibly our cap in the next several years. Its like what the Lakers did when they picked up Karl Malone and Gary Payton only to get blasted by the Pistons in the finals. However, football is a much different sport and bringing in 4-5 FA starters doesn't win you a championship....ever. 2 or 3 maybe...but anything more and you have chemistry problems. Our team is the proof. Hopefully, Snyder has learned this lesson and we will keep players and start building a team.

Completely false and ignorant, as has been posted and proven many times in many different threads. Thanks for playing though.

[stwasm]

1. They aquire lots of picks (2 first rounders this year, and will now have 2 next year)

2. They EVALUATE their players with WAY more accuracy than we do.

3. They get GREAT VALUE for players..a 4th for moss vs a 3rd, 4th and new contract for Lloyd. Both guys have the bad attitude baggage but one is a HOFer

4. They have a stellar QB

5. Bellick is a better D coach than williams

6. They maximize their players strengths and scheme around their strengths and the oppents weakness vs sticking to a broken scheme and forcing players to do things they are not good at.

7. They Build VIA the Draft and only after years of sucess are they toping things off via free agency.

8. The Patriots' owner doesn't meddle in on-field affairs.,

[Om]

yeah, tom brady pulled off a great deal for randy moss. randy moss for a 4th, genius! good job, tom.

Oooh, clever.

So tell me, why is it that Patriots find themselves bringing in an entire new receiving corps via FA this year?

And if the Skins had traded a FIFTH round pick for Randy Moss this off season, would you be calling the move genius, or would you be among the hundreds here ripping them a new ******* for "trying to build through free agency" and bringing in a 30 year old serial knucklehead who has whined his way out of both teams he's played for?

[QShip]

Why are they looked upon as having the best off-season in the league?

Why are they said to be a lock for homefeild in AFC Championship game?

Why after all they've done they, still have 2 1st round, and all but a 4th that they traded for of all people Randy Moss?

Why dont we hear how much these guys are getting over paid?

Are they overpaid? or is there a chart they adhere to in signing FA's

Why have they answered all there needs during off-season with FA's and still be in the top 5 teams with the draft.

49er's

Falcons

Browns

Patriots

Broncos

(you pick the order)

All or most of our FA moves have seemed not to be in best intrest of the team.

While some guys have panned out, for the most part the team we traded with did far better in the deal.

Guys we have traded or out right released have went to other teams and thrived ( not all of course) in what ever the new system the went to.

And if these players excelled in other systems, what is it about ours that is so hard or bad?

Why do we constantly overpay guys who really can't do what we expect them to do coming in the door?

Is there something we see in other teams waist that those teams dont see?

Im not too mad at the draft but not exactly ecstatic about it either.

Landry was on my top 2 of who would be there at #6. This a lone will help our pass rush a bit. It wont solve it but every lill bit helps....

The other guys are iffy to me, but im willing to wait and see.

Blades looks like a hard hitter but he will play behind Fletcher and wont see the feild for awhile.

Sartz? don't know much about him and why did we give up picks for to trade up for Rocky when no one was going to pick him before us (maybe).

Palmer I can see because Brunell is going and Bramlet isnt looking too good in Europa.

Collins will be a coach next year (I think).

Did we give up a pick for him???

But was he worth the pick. I dont think he was too high on any boards.

TE and DT were still a few guys out there....

But really at that point we couldve already had most of these guys ready to sign as UFA walk-ons.

Now Look at the Pats picks, All were for needed positions, either for depth, or immediate placement. neither made last years moves look crazy.

Now i think they have way too many receivers, but that just gives them a lil trade options before the start of the season.

They needed DB's and got a few guys that should have been higer picks.

What is it that they do that we obviously dont know how to or not willing to do?

I know alot of the media hype is just that, Hype!

But are they right when you see other teams perfecting what we really started.

No team has ever won the Superbowl in the off season, but they seem to be better at getting what they need to make a good charge at the ring then we have.

The members on this board (I'm also guilty) has been parading after all the big moves we've mad over the last few years as if its a lock for us to do well, and we really haven't really put good teams on the feild.

We seem to have the best coaches assembled with no results.

And because we didnt go crazy this year in Free Agency everyone is mad they have nothing to parade.

WHY DOES OUR FRONT OFFICE SUCK SO BAD??????

I totally agree!!

[hanster]

This never gets old :laugh:

Put Brady in Arizona and they're instantly a playoff team.

And for all of you sucking off Bellicheck, what's his record as a HC without Brady?

Exactly!!! I think some of the people on here must have an intimate relationship with NE. The media always puts us down when we pick up a bunch of players in free agency ( character issues also). Contradicting!!!

[fansince62]

It's not completely luck, but part of it is luck ... and the amount of luck increases as you go into later rounds. Even the Colts choice of Peyton Manning number one overall was partly luck. They could have easily ended up with Ryan Leaf.

You're right though that it's important to have a consistent philosophy, and that's what the Redskins have lacked with all the coaching turnover recently.

I think we are building some of that consistent culture with hard-hitting safeties like Taylor and Landry and corners that can tackle like Springs and Rogers. Gregg Williams does in fact have a consistent philosophy and a kind of defense that he's building, and Gibbs is building the same thing on offense with Portis and Cooley and Moss and the Dirtbags. It has been a little bit difficult though and we have had to gamble a bit because everything we're doing now is the complete opposite of what Spurrier was trying to do (which was the complete opposite of what Marty was trying to do).

The longer you stick with a consistent philosophy, I think the luck factor goes down, which is what allows a team like the Steelers, which has very little coaching turnover, to rely heavily on the draft.

If anything, this offseason shows that we are starting to reach a point of greater stability. The risky thing to do would have been to go out and draft every single defensive lineman available, but instead we picked up high character guys that fit into our system. If we can get a little bit lucky, it will bring us success.

I have no problems with what you say...as long as everyone recognizes the reality that while this team may be competitive this season...it aint goin to the SB. we will need a full draft/FA signing next season to round things out.

[hanster]

yeah, tom brady pulled off a great deal for randy moss. randy moss for a 4th, genius! good job, tom.

We will see later on in the season when he cries and walks off of the feild like he did at Redskins park!!

[fansince62]

Oooh, clever.

So tell me, why is it that Patriots find themselves bringing in an entire new receiving corps via FA this year?

And if the Skins had traded a FIFTH round pick for Randy Moss this off season, would you be calling the move genius, or would you be among the hundreds here ripping them a new ******* for "trying to build through free agency" and bringing in a 30 year old serial knucklehead who has whined his way out of both teams he's played for?

becasue they weren't willing to pay the receviers who got them to and won previous SBs. the telling thing about the Patriots is that they don't go 5-11 during down periods that force them to reload units such as their receiving corps...they almost make it to the SB again!

[cphil006]

Don;t get our FO to be your stock broker.... they love to buy high and sell low.

[Bang]

becasue they weren't willing to pay the receviers who got them to and won previous SBs. the telling thing about the Patriots is that they don't go 5-11 during down periods that force them to reload units such as their receiving corps...they almost make it to the SB again!

Let's not forget that it wasn't TOO long ago that they were an annual 5-11 doormat themselves.

They caught lightning in a bottle with Tom Brady, and it DOES make a huge difference when you've got a great quarterback. The fact that their success coincides directly with his coming in for Bledstone should not be overlooked.

i am not pinning it all on one man, they are a great team, but when you've got one of the best, maybe one of the best ever, at QB, it makes it that much easier to remain consistent.

Now if by some trick of fate Brady gets hurt and misses a significant portion of the year and they STILL manage to dominate, I'll eat every word. But, in my opinion, if he goes down, so do they.

~Bang

[Om]

becasue they weren't willing to pay the receviers who got them to and won previous SBs. the telling thing about the Patriots is that they don't go 5-11 during down periods that force them to reload units such as their receiving corps...they almost make it to the SB again!

Funny how two people can look at something and see it so entirely differently. You really think it was guys like Troy Brown, David Patten, David Givens and Deon Branch "who got them to and won previous SBs?" To me it seems far more likely that since they got to and won SBs with a long list of essentially replaceable part WR's (and RB's, and OL, and TE's, and ...), it points toward there being one consistently key ingredient around which all those parts have rotated over the past 6 years.

[fansince62]

Let's not forget that it wasn't TOO long ago that they were an annual 5-11 doormat themselves.

They caught lightning in a bottle with Tom Brady, and it DOES make a huge difference when you've got a great quarterback. The fact that their success coincides directly with his coming in for Bledstone should not be overlooked.

i am not pinning it all on one man, they are a great team, but when you've got one of the best, maybe one of the best ever, at QB, it makes it that much easier to remain consistent.

Now if by some trick of fate Brady gets hurt and misses a significant portion of the year and they STILL manage to dominate, I'll eat every word. But, in my opinion, if he goes down, so do they.

~Bang

no argument. I'm just saying that Brady is great....in part...because of where he is. one can very reasonably argue that Montana also would not have been one of the greatest QBs of all time had he not landed in Walsh's lap with Jerry Rice and supporting cast. in short...this argument cuts both ways. Brady is considered great in large part because of his comparative youth when racking up SB victories. Those victories were achieved by a number of contributors including a clutch kicker and a defense that was good enough (and better than most!).

[fansince62]

Funny how two people can look at something and see it so entirely differently. You really think it was guys like Troy Brown, David Patten, David Givens and Deon Branch "who got them to and won previous SBs?" To me it seems far more likely that since they got to and won SBs with a long list of essentially replaceable part WR's (and RB's, and OL, and TE's, and ...), it points toward there being one consistently key ingredient around which all those parts have rotated over the past 6 years.

yea...I do...you know...the stuff you and others constantly trumpet: it's a team sport. the same reason Brady fought so hard to keep Branch. the intangibles (lockerroom presence, leadership) that go beyond just physical skills.

[Ernie5]

WHY DOES OUR FRONT OFFICE SUCK SO BAD??????

It doesn't. Given our lack of picks (something I do have a problem with), we made out nicely -- getting the best defensive player in the draft and some good LB depth. I don't think Randy Moss was such a super move -- aside from having a much better track record than Lloyd, he's 5 years older than Lloyd, gets it trouble (which Lloyd seems not to do), and, even after the trade, has talked only about himself. A 4th for him was a so-so deal, esp. when everyone on Planet Earth knew the Raiders had to dump him.

[Rolling Thunder]

Bottom line...

You make your own luck. It requires planning, intelligence and perseverance. I don't think we had a good or bad draft. Too soon to tell. The only measure that matters in the NFL is winning percentage. We have not won on a consistent basis. In terms of why, I leave that to all the people smarter than me to figure out (and that includes Joe, Danny and Vinnie). Winning = good. Losing = bad. If we win this year then we are good. If we lose this year we are bad. The responsibility for that outcome (both good and bad) is solely the FO. If you look back at the Danny era it would be safe to say we are bad (we may have made the playoffs in 2005 but it was painful to watch our performance in the playoffs).

When the season starts we can really see how we are. :2cents:

[Major Harris]

Oooh, clever.

So tell me, why is it that Patriots find themselves bringing in an entire new receiving corps via FA this year?

because they make mistakes too. but they manage to do enough right to make up for them. they aren't one injury away from crumbling at most positions.

And if the Skins had traded a FIFTH round pick for Randy Moss this off season, would you be calling the move genius, or would you be among the hundreds here ripping them a new ******* for "trying to build through free agency" and bringing in a 30 year old serial knucklehead who has whined his way out of both teams he's played for?

well, this is a question that really isn't worth answering, since proving my answer is impossible.

but i can honestly say that had we gotten moss for a fifth round pick, i would have applauded the move.

[Major Harris]

We will see later on in the season when he cries and walks off of the feild like he did at Redskins park!!

i doubt winning will bring that reaction from him. if it does, i'll admit i was wrong. but if you're judging the move RIGHT NOW, i think you'd be foolish to say that a 4th round pick for randy moss isn't a good value.

[fwo40]

:laugh: :laugh: :laugh: :laugh: :laugh: :laugh: :laugh:

I cannot believe some of the homerism going on in this thread.

Guys the Pats FO has been the best in football now for 5-6 years, the proof is in the wins...it's in the way they never have cap issues, the way they replace their "stars" with people who can handle those same roles, it's in the way they find smart players who specifically fit their schemes and organizational philosphy.

People who want to diminish all of that b/c they happen to have an all world QB in Tom Brady-miss the fact that he's a product of their FO office doing a good job with late round picks (taking a calculated gamble) and surrounding him with a great hardworking and vastly underappericated OL.

The Pats build with OL and DL, save their draft picks, and get amazing value in FA....that is how you win in the NFL.

It's surprising that in a copycat league, the Skins have taken so long to even remotely get on track.

[jbooma]

The thing that is striking to me is how NE is always infusing youth into their roster. Even following super Bowl wins. They have a constant churn of young players. Yet Gibbs after a 5-11 season made the comment that he didn't see many ways in the draft to upgrade his roster. We are "SET" apperently because we made it to the NFC championship game in 2005.

NE NEVER sinks a lot of money into aging players, and never make a player the highest paid at their position.

We do all of that :doh:

[jbooma]

Nice to see someone else that views the NE "dynasty" the same way. I've been beating the "Tom Brady is what sets NE apart" drum all off season, and been rewarded pretty much entirely with airborne tomatoes from the "NE's FO is Genius Personified" crowd.

Thanks.

See what I mean?

Oh please.

It isn't that they just found Tom Brady is how they handled him. Tom Brady was a solid QB in Michigan all the teams knew this, you make is sound like they found him in the dirt somewhere. He was known.

They had an excellent coach to teach him the game, they did not rush him onto the field. He played behind a decent veteran at the time.

NE then did what you need to do for a young QB have a solid D and a solid OL. They have always been able to keep good players not great. This is the difference between NE and the 49ers of the 80's. The 49ers had HOF's everywhere on their team and was basically a team of all stars.

The reason this team is so good is they don't overpay players like us, they don't make players the highets paid at any position like us, and most of all they all buy in. They don't have players that scream during press conferences to tall all his boys to come to Washington to get paid.

That is why the redskins are joke of FO to the rest of the NFL all the players know you come here to get paid not to win.

NE also doesn't have players that dress up in press conferences with mulitiple costumes, you never see NE players in the news are making themself more important then the team.

Tom Brady helps but no one every questions who is in charge in NE it is the coach. We have that some thing here, except it is the owner and not the ther person it should be, the coach.

[TheGift]

I cannot believe some of the homerism going on in this thread.

[jbooma]

because they make mistakes too. but they manage to do enough right to make up for them. they aren't one injury away from crumbling at most positions.

bingo!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

they keep changing their parts all the time, because they are never hurt by major contracts or dead money unlike the skins

[DjTj]

Oh please.

It isn't that they just found Tom Brady is how they handled him. Tom Brady was a solid QB in Michigan all the teams knew this, you make is sound like they found him in the dirt somewhere. He was known.

They had an excellent coach to teach him the game, they did not rush him onto the field. He played behind a decent veteran at the time.

NE then did what you need to do for a young QB have a solid D and a solid OL. They have always been able to keep good players not great. This is the difference between NE and the 49ers of the 80's. The 49ers had HOF's everywhere on their team and was basically a team of all stars.

The reason this team is so good is they don't overpay players like us, they don't make players the highets paid at any position like us, and most of all they all buy in. They don't have players that scream during press conferences to tall all his boys to come to Washington to get paid.

That is why the redskins are joke of FO to the rest of the NFL all the players know you come here to get paid not to win.

NE also doesn't have players that dress up in press conferences with mulitiple costumes, you never see NE players in the news are making themself more important then the team.

Tom Brady helps but no one every questions who is in charge in NE it is the coach. We have that some thing here, except it is the owner and not the ther person it should be, the coach.

I don't want to defend the Redskins' FO, which clearly does things differently, and in many cases, more poorly than other NFL teams.

However, what is the difference between New England's FO and Philadelphia? Seattle? Philadelphia? San Diego? Denver? There are a dozen other NFL teams that do things pretty similar to New England, but the Patriots get all the hype because Tom Brady fell into their lap.

I would say that the maybe the only difference between the Patriots and the Broncos is that Denver never found a franchise quarterback in the sixth round, and that has as much to do with luck as anything else. There is no magic formula in New England ... the Redskins don't necessarily need to be doing things more like New England - we could just maybe stand to do things a little bit more like the whole rest of the league.

[jbooma]

Philadelphia? Seattle? Philadelphia? San Diego? Denver? .

Philly doesn't use their cap, and they bring on players like TO for no reason. Seattle has been good but never have had a consistently good Defense or WR's that can catch balls.

SD recently has turned more into NE and it shows. They get rid of their QB and are even better last year. The problem with SD they don't have the coach making all the right calls.

Denver's issue has been similar to the skins instead of getting a younger QB they felt a veteran is what they needed along and it proved them wrong. Denver also doesn't have much talent at WR, which has always hurt them.

NE has the trifecta right now the best Coach, best football FO person, and a great QB. I do feel even if Brady went down they would lose some ground but not as much as many on this board feel. NE is just smarter then eveyrone in every facet. They also have an owner who deferrs to his football people

NE also ends up with like 7 to 9 draft picks every year, way more then most.

The other thing they have that we don't is players who want to restructure to win, not to get paid. That right there is the largest difference between the teams.

[Lombardi's_kid_brother]

While I am having a hard time imagining what a conversation between Tom Brady and Randy Moss would sound like, I can't help but be in awe of this move.

Here is the fundamental difference between the Skins and Pats. The Pats used a pick acquired by the 49ers for Moss - not one of their own. Then they basically restructured him into a one-year contract. If it works out, they win the Super Bowl. If it is a disaster by Week 5, they will cut him and never look back.

Compare that to the Skins who took a flyer on a less-talented head case in Lloyd. Used two of their own picks to get him. And then gave him a huge contract making him practically unmovable.

The Skins are the divorced dad who takes you for ice cream every Sunday in his new sports car.