StevieInferior Posted April 30, 2007 Share Posted April 30, 2007 i think the better comparison of our FO's is to look at the rings on their owner's fingers vs. the one's on snyders. Well gibbs says that the decisions are his and the man has three rings Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HEavyJumbo85 Posted April 30, 2007 Share Posted April 30, 2007 This never gets old :laugh:Put Brady in Arizona and they're instantly a playoff team. And for all of you sucking off Bellicheck, what's his record as a HC without Brady? Exactly, I really hate the Bill Belichek is the greatest coach of all time talk. Take Brady away from him how many rings does he have(as a head coach)...0 Take Mark Rypien away from Joe Gibbs how many rings does he have...2 Take Doug Williams away from Gibbs...2 rings still I can't believe it's even a discussion. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JimboDaMan Posted April 30, 2007 Share Posted April 30, 2007 Nice to see someone else that views the NE "dynasty" the same way. I've been beating the "Tom Brady is what sets NE apart" drum all off season, and been rewarded pretty much entirely with airborne tomatoes from the "NE's FO is Genius Personified" crowd. Thanks. See what I mean? Me three (to avoid a "Me too" post). Being a genius is a lot easier with a kiss on the lips from the QB fairy. The Pats deserve props for finding Brady, but clearly they had little more idea who they had than anybody else did, otherwise they'd never have chanced waiting till the sixth round. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nace14 Posted April 30, 2007 Share Posted April 30, 2007 Well gibbs says that the decisions are his and the man has three rings well thats a little misleading considering he had bethard and casserly here when he got those rings in the front office. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fansince62 Posted April 30, 2007 Share Posted April 30, 2007 Nice to see someone else that views the NE "dynasty" the same way. I've been beating the "Tom Brady is what sets NE apart" drum all off season, and been rewarded pretty much entirely with airborne tomatoes from the "NE's FO is Genius Personified" crowd. Thanks. See what I mean? cmon now OM....by this logic any player not selected in the first round who turns into a star and the cornerstone of a Championship team is just a "lucky" find? where does one draw the line? second round? third round? fourth round? fifth round? the fact is...these players don't arrive as stars. they are coached. they are fitted into a system. they are matured as players. when watching the SB histories on NFL network, I was struck by how much the Joe Montanas/Ronnie Lotts of the 49ers fit the Walsh plan/concept of football. It's more than just luck.....it's the player, the sytem, the coaches, the culture of the team...etc....etc....all of these play into the success factor Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dent19 Posted April 30, 2007 Author Share Posted April 30, 2007 Nice to see someone else that views the NE "dynasty" the same way. I've been beating the "Tom Brady is what sets NE apart" drum all off season, and been rewarded pretty much entirely with airborne tomatoes from the "NE's FO is Genius Personified" crowd. Hey, Im only talking in terms of personnel. I dont think they are the best. I only compared us to them, and then us to everyone else. And if we really go player for player move for move, the we really suck.. Just remember that we are one year removed from being a two wins away from the Super Bowl. Don't focus on negative things when we have alot of positives as well, such as having a really young QB, great O line, Great RB Tandem, Solid Receivers, Good Tight End, Good LBs, Really Good Secondary, Good Dtackles, one good end, and then daniels who isnt that great.Think about this, in 04 and 05 we had good secondaries so we rushed the passer alot and had top 10 D's... look at the DL those years, either the same as now or worse... this past year Clark left, Springs and Rogers were injured so Gregg Williams didnt have faith in our coverage enough to blitz, thats why the D sucked. We blitzed like crazy in 04 and 05 because of good secondaries, and then in 06 injuries and Archuleta held us back, now we have good starting corners in Springs and probably Smoot over Rogers, and then Rogers is there for depth, Taylor and Landry.... Look forward to blitzing like crazy again because we have a good, healthy secondary so we will be back as a top 10 D. And all the problems you named happen to every team so our FO really isnt that bad. Yep 1 good year out of the last .......6-8yrs. And i only asked why do they seem so much better. This never gets old :laugh:Put Brady in Arizona and they're instantly a playoff team. And for all of you sucking off Bellicheck, what's his record as a HC without Brady? Brady had nothing to do with the players they put around him. Well gibbs says that the decisions are his and the man has three rings If this is the case we really need a GM. All those rings he has came when Bobby B was working his magic. Exactly, I really hate the Bill Belichek is the greatest coach of all time talk. Take Brady away from him how many rings does he have(as a head coach)...0 Take Mark Rypien away from Joe Gibbs how many rings does he have...2 Take Doug Williams away from Gibbs...2 rings still I can't believe it's even a discussion. Take Bethard away and how many does Gibbs have. 0 :mad: I only want to see things change, not debate coaches. The guy is one of my heros. But if we need change then change we must. Skins fan long before JG and will be til im done withthis world. And will never and have never followed blindly. If we need GM to help hiim out, lets do it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LoudMouth12thMan Posted April 30, 2007 Share Posted April 30, 2007 I stopped reading after a couple of "why's" The answer is Tom Brady and Bill Belichick. They have the luxury of having the best defensive mind in the game along with the best field general no matter the personnel. Don't compare The Patriots to Us (Currently). Tell ya what, compare Gibbs I to Belichick (Current) and now you're talkin' 'bout somethin'. Gibbs I is about the same thing that Belichick is doing now. The KEY DIFFERENCE. Gibbs did it with THREE DIFFERENT qbs. Gibbs can't come in and fix a decade of f-ups in three years. It's not a plausible ideal or statement. It's nearly impossible to come in here and fix a franchise that has lacked stability in the FO, and has been fiscally irresponsible. I don't think Gibbs is repeating those mistakes. He looks to be building that stability to me, but I won't be able to give an accurate assessment of that (as far as my opinion goes) until after this year. If he has a winning record in '07 with a good balance of youth and vet players as key contributors on the field, than you'd have to say he is on the right track to building that stability and that things are truly being turned around/righted. :2cents: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DjTj Posted April 30, 2007 Share Posted April 30, 2007 cmon now OM....by this logic any player not selected in the first round who turns into a star and the cornerstone of a Championship team is just a "lucky" find? where does one draw the line? second round? third round? fourth round? fifth round?the fact is...these players don't arrive as stars. they are coached. they are fitted into a system. they are matured as players. when watching the SB histories on NFL network, I was struck by how much the Joe Montanas/Ronnie Lotts of the 49ers fit the Walsh plan/concept of football. It's more than just luck.....it's the player, the sytem, the coaches, the culture of the team...etc....etc....all of these play into the success factor It's not completely luck, but part of it is luck ... and the amount of luck increases as you go into later rounds. Even the Colts choice of Peyton Manning number one overall was partly luck. They could have easily ended up with Ryan Leaf.You're right though that it's important to have a consistent philosophy, and that's what the Redskins have lacked with all the coaching turnover recently. I think we are building some of that consistent culture with hard-hitting safeties like Taylor and Landry and corners that can tackle like Springs and Rogers. Gregg Williams does in fact have a consistent philosophy and a kind of defense that he's building, and Gibbs is building the same thing on offense with Portis and Cooley and Moss and the Dirtbags. It has been a little bit difficult though and we have had to gamble a bit because everything we're doing now is the complete opposite of what Spurrier was trying to do (which was the complete opposite of what Marty was trying to do). The longer you stick with a consistent philosophy, I think the luck factor goes down, which is what allows a team like the Steelers, which has very little coaching turnover, to rely heavily on the draft. If anything, this offseason shows that we are starting to reach a point of greater stability. The risky thing to do would have been to go out and draft every single defensive lineman available, but instead we picked up high character guys that fit into our system. If we can get a little bit lucky, it will bring us success. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Om Posted April 30, 2007 Share Posted April 30, 2007 cmon now OM....by this logic any player not selected in the first round who turns into a star and the cornerstone of a Championship team is just a "lucky" find? where does one draw the line? second round? third round? fourth round? fifth round?the fact is...these players don't arrive as stars. they are coached. they are fitted into a system. they are matured as players. when watching the SB histories on NFL network, I was struck by how much the Joe Montanas/Ronnie Lotts of the 49ers fit the Walsh plan/concept of football. It's more than just luck.....it's the player, the sytem, the coaches, the culture of the team...etc....etc....all of these play into the success factor Around and around and around it goes ... http://www.extremeskins.com/forums/showpost.php?p=3673722&postcount=49 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CGSKINS Posted April 30, 2007 Share Posted April 30, 2007 Who cares? I think we are beating a dead horse. I'm ready to start whippin some ass. I think they have ran into some luck along the way. I think they get to much credit. I'm tired of hearing about there front office. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dent19 Posted April 30, 2007 Author Share Posted April 30, 2007 Around and around and around it goes ...http://www.extremeskins.com/forums/showpost.php?p=3673722&postcount=49 OK I"LL CHANGE THE THREAD TITLE TO: WHEN DO WE GET LUCKY????????? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Om Posted April 30, 2007 Share Posted April 30, 2007 OK I"LL CHANGE THE THREAD TITLE TO:WHEN DO WE GET LUCKY????????? Geez. I haven't had to ask that since high school. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dent19 Posted April 30, 2007 Author Share Posted April 30, 2007 Geez. I haven't had to ask that since high school. Damn Comedian Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HEavyJumbo85 Posted April 30, 2007 Share Posted April 30, 2007 Hey, Im only talking in terms of personnel. I dont think they are the best. I only compared us to them, and then us to everyone else. And if we really go player for player move for move, the we really suck.. Yep 1 good year out of the last .......6-8yrs. And i only asked why do they seem so much better. Brady had nothing to do with the players they put around him. If this is the case we really need a GM. All those rings he has came when Bobby B was working his magic. Take Bethard away and how many does Gibbs have. 0 :mad: I only want to see things change, not debate coaches. The guy is one of my heros. But if we need change then change we must. Skins fan long before JG and will be til im done withthis world. And will never and have never followed blindly. If we need GM to help hiim out, lets do it. Actually if we wanna get technical he has 1 without Beathard. Bobby was in San Diego in 1990 and Gibbs got his 3rd ring in 92(1991 season). But honestly Joe Gibbs has to know that he needs a GM, I can't imagine that he thinks he doesn't. Dan must really be that strongly commited to NOT having one. In the end it's Dan's team and I think Gibbs understands that, it's not his nature to tell the owner how to own, but you would've thought that Gibbs would never have come back if he didn't believe he would have 100% control over who was hired/fired, but that's obviously not the case. Vinny Cerrato wouldn't be allowed on the premesis anymore if that were the situation. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
panel Posted April 30, 2007 Share Posted April 30, 2007 A lot of it is the QB, if you have a QB that you can build around, as long as he wins you the game, everyone else will have looked like they did there job. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DCSaints_fan Posted April 30, 2007 Share Posted April 30, 2007 I dont buy the "Tom Brady is the Patriots" theory. Brady is very good, but without the players around him he doesn't win the big one. Ask Dan Marino, or Elway before Shanahan arrived. I think without Brady or a comparable QB the Patriots would be like the Ravens or the Bucs. Still pretty good but not a dynasty A great defensive team that lacks a franchise QB but is usually in the mix. If Vinatieri doesn't make that field goal its beat the Panthers Brady maybe doesn't get ring #3. And it wasn't exactly a chip shot - it was a 40+ yarder. In 2001, he threw grand total of one(1) TD pass in 3 playoff games. And his defense kept the other team under 20 every single time. Brady in Arizona would not sniff a championship, at least not in the last few years. Their OL has been horrible. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dent19 Posted April 30, 2007 Author Share Posted April 30, 2007 Actually if we wanna get technical he has 1 without Beathard. Bobby was in San Diego in 1990 and Gibbs got his 3rd ring in 92(1991 season). Look at the roster...90% Beathards guys....Charly proved he was a fluke shortly after.... Just like Gruden winning with Dungy's Bucks... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bang Posted April 30, 2007 Share Posted April 30, 2007 Has Moss ever been in trouble with the Law? Why would he suddenly start now? Not counting that little episode in which he hit a traffic cop with his car after she ordered him to pull over. Or the marijuana found in his ashtray when he finally did stop. But other than that, he's clean. By the way, to the thread,, we've just had a decent offseason showing a little wisdom. the Patriots are one of a few VERY elite teams to have won multiple Super Bowls in a short period of time. So, in order to whine properly, you should cry about how 95% of the front offices in league history have not measured up to what the Pats, Steelers, 49ers and Cowboys have managed to do. To just single ours out is ignorant beyond belief. ~Bang Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dent19 Posted April 30, 2007 Author Share Posted April 30, 2007 ...By the way, to the thread,, we've just had a decent offseason showing a little wisdom.the Patriots are one of a few VERY elite teams to have won multiple Super Bowls in a short period of time.So, in order to whine properly, you should cry about how 95% of the front offices in league history have not measured up to what the Pats, Steelers, 49ers and Cowboys have managed to do. To just single ours out is ignorant beyond belief. ~Bang YOYOYOYO, this thread was started to say why after all the moves these guys (Pats have made, they are looked at as if they are still competing at the top of the AFC. and have set themselves up for a good draft and or offseason next year..... And we with every move we have made in the last 3-4 we have taken the short end of the stick.... I think us not giving the farm away was good... but we didnt even have it to give.... im not mad at this off season.... just the last 6...LOL Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
S.T.21 will eat you alive Posted April 30, 2007 Share Posted April 30, 2007 Everyone almost said everything that I was thinking. There are couple of things that I feel like I must add. Brady is exceptional and so is Manning. But the reason both teams are sucessful isn't because of their FO. I feel like it's because of these individuals leadership. Everytime I am amazed by the control of the game both Brady and Manning posess in the game. We dont have that kind of leadership on the field. Jason is still growing and I doubt anyone cared what Brunel had to say when he played. Everytime, we get a new player I hear Gibbs say, "He is a great person and a great leader in the locker room and on the field." I haven't seen any or may be there are just too many leaders out there. We don't need a leader in the locker room, We need someone who can provide the leadership on the field. One more reason why I think we aren't sucessful is because Gibbs gave away his power to too many different people. We see Joe on the cover of the Redskins box but inside its isn't him all along. I am sure everyone knows, towards the end of last season when we went back to "Redskins football" our offense stopped losing the game at least. I may be wrong with everything that I just said, but I this is what I tell myself when I question this mess. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dent19 Posted April 30, 2007 Author Share Posted April 30, 2007 Good Points^^^^^ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bedlamVR Posted April 30, 2007 Share Posted April 30, 2007 Brady is a big part of what makes the Pats the Pats ... they recycle all the positions around him, who plays plays RT or RG for the patriots ? There is a reason why so many teams invest so much money and time trying to get that franchise QB . NE doesn't have a GM - Scott Poli (sp) has exactly the same role as Viny does here. THe biggest joke in this thread is someone saying Marty Shottenhimer was a good GM ... he drafted Rod Gardner over Santa Moss... cut Larry Centres, alienated both Deon Sanders and Darrell Green...brought in such stand out players like Kevin Lockett and Tony Banks and cut all ties with Dan to the detriment of the team....you may not like your boss but you don't openly disrespect him and expect everything to be fine. Marty was almost pushed out of San Deigo because of his botches as a GM and the only reason he was kept on was under the understanding AJ Smith would have total control over the roster and player aquisition People talk about how bad our offence was under Gibbs but i still remember watching 2001 Raye inspired offence which looked more keystone cops than NFL or even NCAA offence . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Major Harris Posted April 30, 2007 Share Posted April 30, 2007 Nice to see someone else that views the NE "dynasty" the same way. I've been beating the "Tom Brady is what sets NE apart" drum all off season, and been rewarded pretty much entirely with airborne tomatoes from the "NE's FO is Genius Personified" crowd. Thanks. See what I mean? yeah, tom brady pulled off a great deal for randy moss. randy moss for a 4th, genius! good job, tom. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Forever21 Posted April 30, 2007 Share Posted April 30, 2007 You think maybe in the 80's and early 90's when we were contenders every year that maybe the Pats message boards had this conversation but in reverse? I know there weren't message boards back then (or were there?) but you get what I'm saying. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chief skin Posted April 30, 2007 Share Posted April 30, 2007 The PATS front office compared to us is a joke. Snyder should do himself as well as us a favor. Sell the franchise to someome who has a clue. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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