Pats FO vs Skins FO

[Om]

I think maybe you should post NE's projected starting offense and defense for '07 alongside ours, making the QB switch you allude to part of it. My guess is we'll both be solidly in favor of our starting O, and their starting D. And if I can convince you to consider our D not just in terms of last year's stunning collapse, but in context of GW's defense over the entirety of his 3 years here, I'm betting I can convince you we are at least their equal talent-wise on that side as well.

Your move.

[redskinsfan1201]

Hey, Im only talking in terms of personnel. I dont think they are the best. I only compared us to them, and then us to everyone else.

And if we really go player for player move for move, the we really suck..

Yep 1 good year out of the last .......6-8yrs.

And i only asked why do they seem so much better.

Brady had nothing to do with the players they put around him.

If this is the case we really need a GM. All those rings he has came when Bobby B was working his magic.

Take Bethard away and how many does Gibbs have. 0 :mad:

I only want to see things change, not debate coaches. The guy is one of my heros. But if we need change then change we must. Skins fan long before JG and will be til im done withthis world. And will never and have never followed blindly.

If we need GM to help hiim out, lets do it.

Thats true that we only have one playoff trip in the since 1999, but we also have one in the past two years which is the more recent time frame.

[dadirtbags]

I will give NE credit for having a winning organization...but in todays football...players are willing to take a paycut to go with a winner. Players like Moss who already have the money...now they want the bragging rights to go along with $$$$.

[dent19]

I will give NE credit for having a winning organization...but in todays football...players are willing to take a paycut to go with a winner. Players like Moss who already have the money...now they want the bragging rights to go along with $$$$.

True but that wont explain their consistency. Having 1 or 2 good years is luck. being a contender for 4-5 years straight is something different and i think it has all to do with how you evaluate talent.

[Major Harris]

I think maybe you should post NE's projected starting offense and defense for '07 alongside ours, making the QB switch you allude to part of it. My guess is we'll both be solidly in favor of our starting O, and their starting D.

that's reaching, and you know it.

let's do that for the colts, too.

or maybe if we just had l.t. we'd be world beaters.

can we do it for stats, too? "if we just had n.e.'s turnover ratio, we'd be unstoppable!"

[Om]

that's reaching, and you know it.

let's do that for the colts, too.

or maybe if we just had l.t. we'd be world beaters.

can we do it for stats, too? "if we just had n.e.'s turnover ratio, we'd be unstoppable!"

What the hell are you talking about? Are you even aware of what my post was in response to?

[Hauss]

If we can spend a loy of money on players and a lot of money on coaches--why can't we spend a lot of money to get the best talent evaluator?

[Pimpey42000]

I for one am not down no matter how down this offseason maybe. Forget the patriot talk and lets talk about getting it on this fall taking it all the way to Phoenix if we can't have a party in front of the rest of the leage pardon my French but: e#$% em'!!!

[fansince62]

I take back what I said about your actually reading (or better, processing) what I say when we talk about this stuff. In this instance anyway.

ok...let's jump to the quick...since this seems to be the new mantra at ES: yes....you ES mods are right....always. your thoughts are always crystal clear, tightly consistent, bound to irrefutable logic, bereft of any speculative emotion...in short......brilliant beyond belief.

it's not worth posting on this board any longer. I'll just sit back and read for a while.

[Om]

Yawn.

If you want to blast the site, blast the site. If you want to talk to me about my views on Tom Brady, talk to me about that by doing the courtesy of actually reading what I write. The snarky martyr thing doesn't suit you.

[BAFGA]

Well gibbs says that the decisions are his and the man has three rings

Snyder has final say. It's well documented that he does. He has zero football knowledge but since he knows how to run things in the business world he thinks that will carry over to the sports world. Nope.

[Om]

Snyder has final say. It's well documented that he does. He has zero football knowledge but since he knows how to run things in the business world he thinks that will carry over to the sports world. Nope.

Care to share any of that documentation?

As to "zero football knowledge," that may be have been true back in '99 when he bought the team. Up to that point he was probably no different that you, me and the 99% of the other people on this board. A fan with opinions.

Since then, though, he's spent 7 years immersed 7 days a week in pro football, from a seat that grants him total access and inside knowledge to every single aspect of the game and his team. Are you saying that over those 7 years he hasn't picked up even a little of what you deem "football knowledge?" You sure you could sit down across a beer with the man and run intellectual football circles around him? I think I'd like to be there to see that.

[ouvan59]

Of course it's preposterous when answering it seriously. It's not about carefully calulating all the variables and personality assesments. It's simply questioning the difficulty of Brady's job, compared to Campbell's. Having a consistently dominant defense,

While I agree with most of what you said, New England has hardly had a consistently dominant defense. They have had a top 10 defense 3 times since Belichick took over in 2000. They have been ranked 20+ 3 times as well including their first SB year although that year they somehow managed to be ranked 24th in yards allowed and 6th in points.

[wyominghansen]

Palmer I can see because Brunell is going and Bramlet isnt looking too good in Europa.

Collins will be a coach next year (I think).

He's not looking too bad to me: 3 games 60 attempts for 38 completions 514yds 63.33% 2TD's 87.6 QB rating.

You might be thinking of his brother Corey 3 attempts 0 completions. Have you actually watched any of the NFLE games this year?

[Guest sith lord]

1. They aquire lots of picks (2 first rounders this year, and will now have 2 next year)

2. They EVALUATE their players with WAY more accuracy than we do.

3. They get GREAT VALUE for players..a 4th for moss vs a 3rd, 4th and new contract for Lloyd. Both guys have the bad attitude baggage but one is a HOFer

4. They have a stellar QB

5. Bellick is a better D coach than williams

6. They maximize their players strengths and scheme around their strengths and the oppents weakness vs sticking to a broken scheme and forcing players to do things they are not good at.

7. They Build VIA the Draft and only after years of sucess are they toping things off via free agency.

Everything he said. :applause: :applause: :applause:

[Rufus T Firefly]

Let's put that theory to the test. From 2000 to 2005 here are the Patriots picks in rounds 3 through 5:

2000

3rd - JR Redmond RB (No longer on team)

4th - Greg Randall OT(No longer on team)

5th - Dave Stachelski TE (No longer on team)

2001

3rd - Brock Williams CB (No longer on team)

4th - Kenyatta Jones OT (No longer on team)

4th - Jabari Holloway TE (No longer on team)

5th - Hakim Akbar OLB (No longer on team)

2002

4th - Rohan Davey QB (No longer on team)

4th - Jarvis Green DE (No longer on team)

2003

4th - Dan Klecko DT (No longer on team)

4th - Asante Samuel CB (starter)

5th - Dan Koppen C (starter)

2004

3rd - Guss Scott SS (No longer on team)

4th - Dexter Reid SS (No longer on team)

4th - Cedric Cobbs RB (No longer on team)

5th - PK Sams WR (No longer on team)

2005

3rd - Ellis Hobbs CB (started 12 games last year)

3rd - Nick Kaczur OT (started 9 games)

4th - James Sanders FS (backup)

5th - Ryan Claridge OLB (No longer on team)

Anybody feel industrious and compare that to what we did with our 3-5 picks including what we got in trade and see how we fared?

Good post, though Jarvis Green is still with the team. He's a third down pass rusher, essentially an extra starter in their system.

[Rufus T Firefly]

Some of the guys who were drafted in 2003, 2004 etc were parts of the teams that got them to the playoffs but are not there now, which is more then we can say.

Not really. Klecko made some real small contributions, but was released. None of those players were traded or signed away for big money. They were just let go.

[Smoot Point Really]

Big difference is the Pats get praised, even after they successfully take a dump... The Redskins get criticized before they turn the bathroom doorknob.

Here is an example: The Patriots were 1 minute away from the Championship last year, and in the first half of that game they ran 19 times for about 90 yards... In the 2nd half they ran 8 times for 5 yards against a very bad rushing defense. Did you hear anyone criticize the coaching?

They were 1 minute from the championship and brought in 4 Free Agent/traded receivers... Didn't they draft Chad Jackson in the 1st round last year? What do they do with Troy Brown? Jabbar Gaffney? Reche Caldwell?

If the Redskins even thought of doing this, can you imagine the criticism?

[Guest sith lord]

Big difference is the Pats get praised, even after they successfully take a dump... The Redskins get criticized before they turn the bathroom doorknob.

Here is an example: The Patriots were 1 minute away from the Championship last year, and in the first half of that game they ran 19 times for about 90 yards... In the 2nd half they ran 8 times for 5 yards against a very bad rushing defense. Did you hear anyone criticize the coaching?

They were 1 minute from the championship and brought in 4 Free Agent/traded receivers... Didn't they draft Chad Jackson in the 1st round last year? What do they do with Troy Brown? Jabbar Gaffney? Reche Caldwell?

If the Redskins even thought of doing this, can you imagine the criticism?

But where were the Skins when the Pats were 1 minute away from the Championship? Exactly. You guys need to stop being homers for a second and smell the coffee. The Pats FO has been 10 times better than ours over the past 7 years.

[Om]

But where were the Skins when the Pats were 1 minute away from the Championship? Exactly. You guys need to stop being homers for a second and smell the coffee. The Pats FO has been 10 times better than ours over the past 7 years.

Or, you could actually deal with some of the specifics--like the posts above that present actual facts like the pre-Brady and post-Brady W/L numbers, and the actual draft picks made by the Pats in rounds 3-5, for starters--and drink some coffee to wake up to the differences tha can exist right under your nose between common perception and reality.

[Gusthecat]

They have a great owner, great head coach, great quarterback. We have a great coach.

[NavyDave]

The thing that is striking to me is how NE is always infusing youth into their roster. Even following super Bowl wins. They have a constant churn of young players. Yet Gibbs after a 5-11 season made the comment that he didn't see many ways in the draft to upgrade his roster. We are "SET" apperently because we made it to the NFC championship game in 2005.

The only way the skins made it to the NFC championship game in 2005 is on playstation 2. We beat Tampa then lost to Seattle after stone hands err Rogers drop a sure INT for a TD in a game marked for the "concussion" Seahawk RB received and Seattle then beat Carolina

[DCSaints_fan]

Let's put that theory to the test. From 2000 to 2005 here are the Patriots picks in rounds 3 through 5:

.....

Anybody feel industrious and compare that to what we did with our 3-5 picks including what we got in trade and see how we fared?

Why only rounds 3-5? Seems kind of arbitrary to me

And I think it would be easier to look at the guys who are on the team and see if they were originally drafted (or maybe signed UDFA) by the Pats.

[ouvan59]

Why only rounds 3-5? Seems kind of arbitrary to me

And I think it would be easier to look at the guys who are on the team and see if they were originally drafted (or maybe signed UDFA) by the Pats.

Because I was responding to a poster that claimed the difference between the Skins FO and the Pats FO is the Patriots knew the value of 3-5 round picks.

[BAFGA]

Care to share any of that documentation?

As to "zero football knowledge," that may be have been true back in '99 when he bought the team. Up to that point he was probably no different that you, me and the 99% of the other people on this board. A fan with opinions.

Since then, though, he's spent 7 years immersed 7 days a week in pro football, from a seat that grants him total access and inside knowledge to every single aspect of the game and his team. Are you saying that over those 7 years he hasn't picked up even a little of what you deem "football knowledge?" You sure you could sit down across a beer with the man and run intellectual football circles around him? I think I'd like to be there to see that.

For every website I found that said Snyder had the final say, I found one that said Gibbs had final say on who made the roster. There are people, though, that still think that Snyder still has final say, and even Spurrier said that was the case when he was here. It may or may not be true, now.

Perhaps you need to spread the word about Gibbs having final say if this is true. Some people are still misinformed.