Redskins Diehard Posted August 10, 2006 Share Posted August 10, 2006 If and Why.Peace is going to come from one of these Islamic's that you want to persecute. Denying them their human rights is not going to speed things up. The only right they need to be denied is the right to breath. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
webnarc Posted August 10, 2006 Share Posted August 10, 2006 The only right they need to be denied is the right to breath. I appreciate the play on words, that is good. That's something Bush would say, so I'll conceed that it must be fact. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Destino Posted August 10, 2006 Share Posted August 10, 2006 smsmith40's statement of "but you'll forgive me if I wait a while before I start celebrating" makes me want to kick him in the marbles.So your position is that it's unreasonable to take a wait and see stance with a nation that shot a young brazilian and made up a bunch of bogus details surrounding the shooting and were only caught when the video footage from the metro station was leaked to the press? Did you forget the "wearing a heavy coat" and "ran from police" that actually turned out to be none of the above and in fact more of a "police ran in grabbed him as he sat on the train and shot him". I don't think this is that kind of situation at all but I'm certainly not going to get furious with a person that is taking a cautious approach based on FACTS concerning event that occured recently. You may not care but that guys mom and dad do I'd bet. Also even the example you point out with smsith40 doesn't come close to the strawmen Sarge and friends are throwing out there. If you want I can compare them directly. The fact is that while I tend to agree with probably more democratic party views, their weakness on security makes me want the republicans to be in power. My family is safer with the GOP, even if they are the sob's that help the rich, preach about god but act like the devil, and lie to me.I agree with you on the democrats weakness on security though I don't think the GOP does mich more. The democrats are too heavily controlled by the lunatics on the left at the moment and for that I don't really like them all that much at the moment myself. The problem is the GOP continues to do little more then talk a good game - the only issue they ever seem to act on is taxes. Outside of that they rarely seem to come through with anything they talk about. Borders are still open, ports are still unsecured, etc etc. That isn't the track record of a party serious about security. Then again I think 9/11 happened because of an intel break down, not because of airport security. I think those lines of communications that allowed known terrorists to walk freely in the states and even learn to fly here have been mostly repaired. This is what I credit for the lack of attacks since 9/11. Hopefully they are able to continue this high standard and we never have to see another day like that day again. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Beaudry Posted August 10, 2006 Share Posted August 10, 2006 If and Why.Peace is going to come from one of these Islamic's that you want to persecute. Denying them their human rights is not going to speed things up. I'm not understanding what are you are getting at here. I'm not even sure what planet you are from. Oh, and terrorists aren't the only people who I want to kick in the nuts. Those who are more interested in defending terrorists rights more than defending their own country, I would like to kick them in the nuts, too. Line forms to the right. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BURGUNDYBLEEDER Posted August 10, 2006 Share Posted August 10, 2006 I appreciate the play on words, that is good. That's something Bush would say, so I'll conceed that it must be fact. I wish Bush would say that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Redskins Diehard Posted August 10, 2006 Share Posted August 10, 2006 I appreciate the play on words, that is good. That's something Bush would say, so I'll conceed that it must be fact. Is it unreasonable to expect them to police their own? Is it unreasonable to expect the people that pray in the same mosques, attend the same "schools", and live in the same neighborhoods to do something about the terrorism? Is it unreasonable for us to expect any of this before we extend them special rights... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Beaudry Posted August 10, 2006 Share Posted August 10, 2006 So your position is that it's unreasonable to take a wait and see stance with a nation that shot a young brazilian Right now everybody is operating on the assumption that we are hearing on the news is correct. Nobody is saying we should line them up and shoot them before we make sure they were actually terrorists. However, reports so far indicate that this is a cut and dry case. So we could add "assuming reports are accurate" before everybody's opinions in this thread. About the dems/repubs: The far left of the dem party think that if we leave them alone that they won't want to kill us anymore. The far right of the repubs would like us to close our borders to all immigrants. If I had a choice between those two, I would have to go right. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Destino Posted August 10, 2006 Share Posted August 10, 2006 Is it unreasonable to expect them to police their own? Is it unreasonable to expect the people that pray in the same mosques, attend the same "schools", and live in the same neighborhoods to do something about the terrorism? None of the planes were targetted for Ontario, none of them were flying out of Canada, I wouldn't expect you to be overly concerned. The question really is "At which point does an innocent become a guilty party?" I think if you know violent extremism is going on and act in a manner that is accepting of this behavior you are part of the problem. With Islamic extremists, due to the scale of their destruction, this is a vey serious isssue. Muslims that do anything short of rejecting the violent wing of their religion are tempting fate. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Redskins Diehard Posted August 10, 2006 Share Posted August 10, 2006 The question really is "At which point does an innocent become a guilty party?" I think if you know violent extremism is going on and act in a manner that is accepting of this behavior you are part of the problem. With Islamic extremists, due to the scale of their destruction, this is a vey serious isssue. Muslims that do anything short of rejecting the violent wing of their religion are tempting fate. In my opinion they can't just "reject" the violent wing of their religion...they must proactively eliminate it. Until then, we will have to remain on the offensive. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
webnarc Posted August 10, 2006 Share Posted August 10, 2006 I'm not understanding what are you are getting at here. I'm not even sure what planet you are from. There is life on only one planet in this system, earth, so I'm from here. It's a tough one so I'll forgive your doltness. Oh, and terrorists aren't the only people who I want to kick in the nuts. Those who are more interested in defending terrorists rights more than defending their own country, I would like to kick them in the nuts, too. Line forms to the right. You NEVER said that it was terrorists that you wanted to assult until now, you said it of an Englishman who was going to wait for the facts before he rejoices because he's seen the mistakes that his country men have made when dealing with potiential terror plots. Your statement was completely emotional, as is your post here. The solution for ME violence isn't going to come from someone like you, goaldeje or Redskins Diehard, it's going to come from within their ranks. Those individuals are never going to be given the chance to solve their peoples problems if you deny them the right to live or anything else we hold so dear to us. It's pretty simple, treat like animal, act like animal. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sarge Posted August 10, 2006 Share Posted August 10, 2006 Muslims that do anything short of rejecting the violent wing of their religion are tempting fate. I prefer the word "collusion" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Destino Posted August 10, 2006 Share Posted August 10, 2006 About the dems/repubs: The far left of the dem party think that if we leave them alone that they won't want to kill us anymore. The far right of the repubs would like us to close our borders to all immigrants. If I had a choice between those two, I would have to go right.You forgot to mention expand the war, round up all muslims in camps, and nuke any nation over there that refuses to do as we say. If I had to choose between those to positions - I'd move to somewhere I didn't have to make that choice because I believe supporting one of those two would result in my soul ending up in hell and the other would get me and everyone I care for killed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Destino Posted August 10, 2006 Share Posted August 10, 2006 I prefer the word "collusion" If they know about it and tolerate it I would agree with you. Innocent people are those opposing murder, not sitting in the same room with murderers nodding their heads but unwilling to actually commit the crimes themselves. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PokerPacker Posted August 10, 2006 Share Posted August 10, 2006 The President is in Geenbay! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sarge Posted August 10, 2006 Share Posted August 10, 2006 If I had to choose between those to positions - I'd move to somewhere I didn't have to make that choice because I believe supporting one of those two would result in my soul ending up in hell and the other would get me and everyone I care for killed. Hence, I would do nothing Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
webnarc Posted August 10, 2006 Share Posted August 10, 2006 Is it unreasonable to expect them to police their own? Is it unreasonable to expect the people that pray in the same mosques, attend the same "schools", and live in the same neighborhoods to do something about the terrorism?Is it unreasonable for us to expect any of this before we extend them special rights... Special rights? Never asked for special rights. All I want is for people to stop calling for the persecution of a group of people. And the people ARE doing something about it. Tips are being given, acted on and crimes are being stopped. You are getting exactly what you ask for and don't see it as what you wanted. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Destino Posted August 10, 2006 Share Posted August 10, 2006 Hence, I would do nothing Far from it binary boy. I would declare war on extremism and hold those preaching it responsible. No more talk of WMD and all that crap - but instead getting after those that are actively preaching and promoting violence. I don't care if they carry sticks or nerve gas, if their classrooms are telling their people that the violent jihad is ok they are the enemy. This would have no effect at all on immigrants from anywhere in the world that don't subscribe to violence. call me crazy but I don't think denying a few Argentinians entry to the US to study is going to make us safer - I think the anti-immigrant thing is a personal bias and they are taking advantage of the situation to promote it. Someone that refers to it as the "turd world" shouldn't even bother denying it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Goaldeje Posted August 10, 2006 Share Posted August 10, 2006 The solution for ME violence isn't going to come from someone like you, goaldeje or Redskins Diehard, it's going to come from within their ranks. Those individuals are never going to be given the chance to solve their peoples problems if you deny them the right to live or anything else we hold so dear to us. It's pretty simple, treat like animal, act like animal. Your last sentance is the problem. I would reverse it. They act like animals, so we treat them like animals. What people do not seem to understand is that there is a fundamental militarism in Islam. These people do not want to "peacefully" co-exist with us. These terrorists want to kill us. Now, you will certainly counter with the idea that not all Islam is like that. Fine. If it isn't, then why the hell haven't the peacable Islamics done something about the militant ones? Why are the peaceable Islamics turning in the terrorists? That would provide a peaceful existence for all. Hell, look at the IRA, responsible for some horrific terrorist acts. They had their own people turn them in upon ocassion. Why can't the Muslims do this? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Larry Posted August 10, 2006 Share Posted August 10, 2006 Guys, I have to fly to London in a week and 1/2. THAT sucks balls. Hey, think of all the things you don't have to pack, now. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Larry Posted August 10, 2006 Share Posted August 10, 2006 Good for the UK police.Im interested to find out HOW they discovered it. 1) I assume that a lot of not-very-nice people are trying to figure out how, right now. (Including a lot of people who're either hiding, or wondering if they should be.) 2) Although I'll admit to some curiosity, myself, part of me says that maybe it's better if people don't know how they found out. (I do hope that how they found out was legal. But if it's legal and secret, that's fine with me.) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Larry Posted August 10, 2006 Share Posted August 10, 2006 Destino, I completely understand your "straw man" statements in this thread, and I would normally agree with you 100%. However, go look at smsmith40's post. Sarge isn't just making up these arguments, they are being used by people everyday. smsmith40's statement of "but you'll forgive me if I wait a while before I start celebrating" makes me want to kick him in the marbles. Because after all, assault is the correct response whenever someone points out that innocent people exist, right? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sarge Posted August 10, 2006 Share Posted August 10, 2006 part of me says that maybe it's better if people don't know how they found out. (I do hope that how they found out was legal. But if it's legal and secret, that's fine with me.) What?:yikes: Your ACLU brethren are going to kick you out of the club :laugh: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
webnarc Posted August 10, 2006 Share Posted August 10, 2006 Your last sentance is the problem. I would reverse it. They act like animals, so we treat them like animals. What people do not seem to understand is that there is a fundamental militarism in Islam. These people do not want to "peacefully" co-exist with us. These terrorists want to kill us. Freaken right the terrorists want us dead. They shouldn't want us dead but they do. I honestly think you stay away from people like that and if you can't, you kill them. Now, you will certainly counter with the idea that not all Islam is like that. Fine. If it isn't, then why the hell haven't the peacable Islamics done something about the militant ones? Why are the peaceable Islamics turning in the terrorists? That would provide a peaceful existence for all. Hell, look at the IRA, responsible for some horrific terrorist acts. They had their own people turn them in upon ocassion. Why can't the Muslims do this? If all of them acted like animals, you and I would have been assimilated or destroyed by now. I'm grateful that their population appears to be made up of the same percentage of sociopaths as ours is. THere are not a lot of people who will actually commit terrorist acts so a blanket culling of those most likely to be terrorists is going to cause a lot more harm than good. The problem is that terrorism is the easiest way to wage a war on a stronger enemy and it requires a very small army. It really only requires a man, a grudge and a better reason to die than to live. That scares the crap out of me because I can't relate. But it also scared the crap out of a lot of Muslim people because 99% of them are not out there killing themselves or fighting a terrorist war. Your IRA reference is great because of how it ended. It ended on the political front through discussion. Once the British stopped treating catholics as second class citizans the IRA lost its primary motivation for existing as a terrorist group. When "freedom fighters" start being seen as terrorists the public will start the clean up. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Larry Posted August 10, 2006 Share Posted August 10, 2006 Right now everybody is operating on the assumption that we are hearing on the news is correct. Nobody is saying we should line them up and shoot them before we make sure they were actually terrorists. No, I think they're advocating blowtorches first, then shooting. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rdskn4Lyf21 Posted August 10, 2006 Share Posted August 10, 2006 I KNOW Ill get **** for this because of every wanting to be politically correct.... Here's the answer: Let them fly with whatever they want, they just have separate flights... An all-Arab flight. Arab stewards, stewardesses, and American pilots who have balls.. That way if they do blow up the plane, good for them, they killed their own people - the American pilots are to keep the plane from being deliberately flown into an American city.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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