smsmith40 Posted August 10, 2006 Share Posted August 10, 2006 I just find it funny that the usual suspects aren't here defending these guys rights or something. OK, I'll bite. I really hope that UK Airports (which I use regularly) are now safer because of the actions of the police today. On the other hand its only a couple of months since Scotland Yard raided a house in London using a hundred officers dressed in hazmat suits, evacuate the entire neghbourhood because there was solid intelligence of a.plot to set off a chemical device. Officers at the scene arrested two men (muslims obviously), shooting one of them in the shoulder. 10 days later both men were released without charge. Obviously the police should continue to err on the side of caution but you'll forgive me if I wait a while before I start celebrating Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rdsknbill Posted August 10, 2006 Share Posted August 10, 2006 Thank God my son made it home. He just got back from two weeks in Manchester playing lacrosse Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Redskins Diehard Posted August 10, 2006 Share Posted August 10, 2006 Trying to be apolitical here. I'm grateful that this came to nothing and that the Intelligence and Police combined to successfully thwart these ****s and save those lives. I think that's what we should really care about. Political ideology aside, we all want the terrorists stopped and our families safe. Maybe we all want that, but not all of us are willing to do what it takes to attain that.:2cents: And that is where all the debate/contention originates Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Destino Posted August 10, 2006 Share Posted August 10, 2006 And this "straw man" that the left has dragged out in debates. This is the man that takes all the arrows for you when the roosters come home to roost and you are proven wrong, correct? No this straw man is the product of a dishonest or weak minded wingnut that chooses to take bits and pieces of a liberals argument in a different case and apply it here, in a completely different situation and then bash it. That's how the straw man works - you build him up just how you like him and then rip it apart and raise your hands in victory. hooray for debating yourself and winning! You should get some recognition for it, maybe a golden helmet to be worn indoors to avoid injury. What is interesting about this particular straw man is that he represents a liberal apparently arguing that arresting any muslim for anything guilty or not is a violation of his rights - an argument I've never actually seen made myself by anyone other then a right winger speaking on behalf of his political rival. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sarge Posted August 10, 2006 Share Posted August 10, 2006 Thank God my son made it home. He just got back from two weeks in Manchester playing lacrosse Glad to hear that Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Burgold Posted August 10, 2006 Share Posted August 10, 2006 Maybe we all want that, but not all of us are willing to do what it takes to attain that.:2cents: And that is where all the debate/contention originates I think there is an honest debate in that. Though so far, there has been too much dishonest debate. I think the United States has certain core principles and values and to sacrifice these for safety isn't worth it. I have relatives in Israel, who live in Haifa, who have been recalled into the army, and there is a balancing point between safety and living, between caution and liberty. It's fair that different people lie on different sides of that. I for one have never complained about airport security. It makes sence and while it impedes my time and freedom to a degree, it is a fair sacrifice. Other things, arresting people without charge and denying Americans legal representation I think go to far. Most of this debate is about fear and when people are afraid it's easier to attack the guy who thinks differently. Today, I think we should all celebrate that the bad guys have been thought and pursue constructively what level of vigilance is best rather than have a bash right, bash left session. :2cents: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
redskinsfan85 Posted August 10, 2006 Share Posted August 10, 2006 Wow, this is all over the news in Pakistan! DAMN! My parents and brother were supposed to fly out of Islamambad today the 10th but delayed it because my mom wasn't healthy enough to travel..big relief and lots of luck! I would have been freaking out had they gone today but it's all cool. I have no idea what to make of this. I've heard many caught were Pakistanis and the police said they were in the final planning stages. Pakistans Independence day is August 14th, so maybe it had something to do with that? I hope thats not hte case though. I'm getting a little worried myself. Im leaving on the 14th for London heathrow from Islamabad and then taking united from heathrow to dulles :|...3 days from now...hopefully i can get it delayed as well and let this all settle down before heading back to America! So yeah...hope nothing happens and whoever was behind this **** is caught and jailed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Beaudry Posted August 10, 2006 Share Posted August 10, 2006 Destino, I completely understand your "straw man" statements in this thread, and I would normally agree with you 100%. However, go look at smsmith40's post. Sarge isn't just making up these arguments, they are being used by people everyday. smsmith40's statement of "but you'll forgive me if I wait a while before I start celebrating" makes me want to kick him in the marbles. The fact is that while I tend to agree with probably more democratic party views, their weakness on security makes me want the republicans to be in power. My family is safer with the GOP, even if they are the sob's that help the rich, preach about god but act like the devil, and lie to me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
webnarc Posted August 10, 2006 Share Posted August 10, 2006 Destino, I completely understand your "straw man" statements in this thread, and I would normally agree with you 100%. However, go look at smsmith40's post. Sarge isn't just making up these arguments, they are being used by people everyday. smsmith40's statement of "but you'll forgive me if I wait a while before I start celebrating" makes me want to kick him in the marbles. Hmm, failing to rush to judgement makes you want to assult someone? Reread smsmith40 post, it reaks of pragmatism BECAUSE the guys were released. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sarge Posted August 10, 2006 Share Posted August 10, 2006 Destino, I completely understand your "straw man" statements in this thread, and I would normally agree with you 100%. However, go look at smsmith40's post. Sarge isn't just making up these arguments, they are being used by people everyday. smsmith40's statement of "but you'll forgive me if I wait a while before I start celebrating" makes me want to kick him in the marbles.The fact is that while I tend to agree with probably more democratic party views, their weakness on security makes me want the republicans to be in power. My family is safer with the GOP, even if they are the sob's that help the rich, preach about god but act like the devil, and lie to me. Damn, you, Burgold and Spaceman Spiff are converting to the dark side today!? Call Ripley's! :laugh: Too bad it takes something like this, where potentially thousands of people could hve lost their lives, not just on the planes but on the ground, to pull some heads out of the sand Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
smsmith40 Posted August 10, 2006 Share Posted August 10, 2006 Beaudry Read the post I really hope that UK Airports (which I use regularly) are now safer because of the actions of the police today. I was merely pointing out that the last police pre-emptive raid against suspected terrorists was spectacularly misinformed and led to an innocent man being shot. 13 months ago they shot a guy 7 times in the head because they thought he was taking a bomb on to a train and they were wrong The police obviosly have to continue to act as they did today. I am not crticising their actions. I also think its reasonable to wait until after the police question these guys before I make any judgement on wheter I am any safer when I walk through Heathrow next week. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sherlock Holmes Posted August 10, 2006 Share Posted August 10, 2006 Good for the UK police.Im interested to find out HOW they discovered it. All I have heard is that they have links in every Muslim inner city community and investigate any sisng of a tip off, and this one turned out to be genuine. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Beaudry Posted August 10, 2006 Share Posted August 10, 2006 I was merely pointing out that the last police pre-emptive raid against suspected terrorists was spectacularly misinformed and led to an innocent man being shot. Unfortunately, I 100% don't care about that. If muslim's weren't going around FLYING AIRPLANES INTO BUILDINGS then we wouldn't be accidentally shooting them, thinking they have a bomb. If I were a muslim I would be ashamed at what these people were doing in the name of my religion. I would be doing everything possible to stop them. Unfortunately, very few people seem to think the same way about this that I do. Until they do, I am not going to feel sorry for them. I wouldn't normally say things like that, but this very easily could have been 9/11 X 10. To say that you won't applaud the authorities for stopping that just makes my blood boil. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Beaudry Posted August 10, 2006 Share Posted August 10, 2006 Hmm, failing to rush to judgement makes you want to assult someone?Reread smsmith40 post, it reaks of pragmatism BECAUSE the guys were released. Actually, if you read his follow-up post, I think my original assessment was correct. You may have misinterpreted his original post. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
smsmith40 Posted August 10, 2006 Share Posted August 10, 2006 Beaudry Of course I'll congrtulate them if they've stopped another 9/11 or 7/7 for that matter. I'm just going to wait until it turns out that's actually what has happened. It may sound cynical to you but my cynicism is borne out of actual mistakes that have been made by the police/security services. As I have said a couple of times. I really hope the police have got it right this time. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Goaldeje Posted August 10, 2006 Share Posted August 10, 2006 Unfortunately, I 100% don't care about that. If muslim's weren't going around FLYING AIRPLANES INTO BUILDINGS then we wouldn't be accidentally shooting them, thinking they have a bomb.If I were a muslim I would be ashamed at what these people were doing in the name of my religion. I would be doing everything possible to stop them. Unfortunately, very few people seem to think the same way about this that I do. Until they do, I am not going to feel sorry for them. I wouldn't normally say things like that, but this very easily could have been 9/11 X 10. To say that you won't applaud the authorities for stopping that just makes my blood boil. And this nails it, right here. The Islamic folks have had some nutjobs kill many many Americans. If Islam is a religion of peace, why are they doing it? And more importantly, why are their family members, neighbors, friends, etc., not turning them in? Why do THEY tolerate it? Until something changes on that end, I have no desire to extend special rights to them, or frankly, even ordinary rights. If they are going to kill people, **** 'em. If they MIGHT have killed people, **** 'em. We have to protect people, not worry about their feelings. The rights of the many superseed the rights of the few, imo. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CounterTrey Posted August 10, 2006 Share Posted August 10, 2006 First of all, thank God they found these nut jobs. I fly quite a bit to the UK and my dad is always @ heathrow. So I also found out that the 21 men are from pakistani decent. What i want to ask Sarge and AFC is that when the fu3k will be stop coddling our good freind pakistan. India has been telling us for the last 25 years to keep an eye on pakistan. Do you guys even relize that 90% of the World terrorists are trained/funded or are from pakistan?? Do you understand that the reason we now hear of Nuclear ambitions from iran/North Korea is because they got all the knowhow from A Q Khan who we desperately want tot alk to but the paksiatni gov't told us to get lost. Where the hell do you think Osama is living now?? I say its time for our administration to get real with pakistan and start playing tough. And until we start erradicating the radical Madrassas (Religious schools in Islamic countries that primarily deal with orphans) we will NEVER GET RID OF THIS PROBLEM!! So who here thinks of Pakistan as a true ally of ours anymore. I'm orignally from india and we have had enought of the them sponsoring terrorist camps int heir country, but unfortuantely tsrating a war would be deadly for both sides. On top of that we just gave them $3 billion of sophiticated amrs including F16 Blcoks D's..Imagine if they fell into the wrong hands! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DeanCollins Posted August 10, 2006 Share Posted August 10, 2006 Assuming so quickly that these guys are muslim are we?Sterotyper yea, they could be catholics from northern Ireland :doh: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sarge Posted August 10, 2006 Share Posted August 10, 2006 yea, they could be catholics from northern Ireland :doh: I'll take that bet Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mooka Posted August 10, 2006 Share Posted August 10, 2006 Chalk one up for the British Intel Man, in a few years we're gonna have to be strip searched before going on a plane. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
webnarc Posted August 10, 2006 Share Posted August 10, 2006 Actually, if you read his follow-up post, I think my original assessment was correct. You may have misinterpreted his original post. Again, you favor assulting him. Those are your words. You aren't saying kick the terrorists in the nads, you are saying kick him because he's going to wait for more information. Beat the reasonable guy because he doesn't mindless jump on the band wagon. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Redskins Diehard Posted August 10, 2006 Share Posted August 10, 2006 So I also found out that the 21 men are from pakistani decent. What i want to ask Sarge and AFC is that when the fu3k will be stop coddling our good freind pakistan. India has been telling us for the last 25 years to keep an eye on pakistan. Do you guys even relize that 90% of the World terrorists are trained/funded or are from pakistan?? These particular gentlemen were born and raised in England...not Pakistan. Focusing on the origin of these people ancestors will not solve the problem in my opinion. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
webnarc Posted August 10, 2006 Share Posted August 10, 2006 And this nails it, right here. The Islamic folks have had some nutjobs kill many many Americans. If Islam is a religion of peace, why are they doing it? And more importantly, why are their family members, neighbors, friends, etc., not turning them in? Why do THEY tolerate it? Until something changes on that end, I have no desire to extend special rights to them, or frankly, even ordinary rights. If they are going to kill people, **** 'em. If they MIGHT have killed people, **** 'em. We have to protect people, not worry about their feelings. The rights of the many superseed the rights of the few, imo. If and Why. Peace is going to come from one of these Islamic's that you want to persecute. Denying them their human rights is not going to speed things up. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shallow1 Posted August 10, 2006 Share Posted August 10, 2006 I kinda feel bad for these terrorists, they missed out on like lets see 21 x 70 = 1,470 virgins.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BURGUNDYBLEEDER Posted August 10, 2006 Share Posted August 10, 2006 I kinda feel bad for these terrorists, they missed out on like lets see 21 x 70 = 1,470 virgins.... Come on man that is totally wrong...it is 72 virgins apiece (21 x 72 = 1512) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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