Marty haters step up!

[bulldog]

well, Marty's defense here in DC sure didn't play well from the opener last season :laugh:

that Monday night game vs. Green Bay was even worse than this year's Philly game if that is imaginable :mad:

the Redskins in the first 5 games last year were as poor as I have seen them since I started watching the team in 1971-2.

Believe it

[SonnyJ]

I'm tired of hearing the "Marty finished 8-3" crap.

1) It seems to overlook the disastrous 0-5 start, really poor for a coach as experienced as Marty.

2) It gives the impression that the team finished strong. WRONG! The team blew three very winnable home games in December that could have put the team in the playoffs. Very poor coaching stretch.

He finished, AFTER the team had already been eliminated from the playoffs, with two meaningless victories against two teams that had packed it in, themselves.

The 5-0 streak was good. But the 1-3 record in crunch time was very telling and seemingly typical for Marty teams.

[NoCalMike]

Another point to add about Marty. His criticism has never been that he isn't a capable head coach, rather his teams, including the great ones...could never get it done in the post season. Hence, his nickname, "Chokenheimer"

[Art]

Marty was terminated, officially, because of questions of his stewardship of the team as the general manager. But, where he failed was in coaching. We had a team that led the league in pre-snap penalties and three and outs. The reason he's doing well in San Diego is the SAME reasons we felt he would do well here. He's got the team focused on fundamentals and playing well, which he ultimately got here. The real difference is he doesn't have Jimmy Raye calling plays. Cameron is a creative mind and is doing a nice job there.

I don't know that Cameron would have mattered early for us last year, though quite possibly he might have. The real difference that I see here is that Marty is coaching better. He's allowing the offense to have some imagination and the defense is what you expect of a Marty team. Had he let our offense have a bit more imagination last year his coaching wouldn't have been such a glaring issue.

No one was talking about his problems though as a coach. Just as a GM. So, since that makes us feel better, let's keep repeating it .

[Art]

Mike,

As an FYI, Marty came in here last year and totally reworked the offense and defense. Same thing this year with Spurrier. In San Diego, they are running the same offense they had last year. It's no different. Same play book. Same offensive coaching tree. The defense is different, but, our problem last year was similar to our problem this year. Our players didn't do well playing zone, and playing 10-yards off, and having a complex scheme. The difference is this defensive coach has the juice to make the team eventually bend to his will and Marty and Kurt simply catered the system to the players demands.

It is rare you see both sides of the ball change systems and produce immediate success. You can tweak one side and do ok. We've seen that. You can also scrap entirely unworkable schemes for better ones and enjoy success, as in Carolina. Here, you have the wills of immensely talented players -- namely on defense -- questioning whether they should change the things that have made them stars. Just like last year. Only now we have Lewis who might be a bigger star than anyone we have on defense so he'll have wide latitude to get them to yield to him. Last year the coaching staff had to yield to the players.

[panel]

Marty's system works, a always have said he should have given a second chance here.

[Yomar]

The difference between SD Marty and Washington Marty is

- Better DLine, two stud LBs in Edwards and Seau, and an elite safety in Rodney Harrison, the one shortcoming in SD being CB, but they still have solid vets there.

- Drew Brees

- No over the hill prima donnas

Marty is the man, emphasizing D, special teams and a ball control offense still and always will work in this league. His team may yet fade, and I am glad to to have Spurrier, but I can't believe that after all those years of Norv, Marty came in and cleaned up the way he did and some people are down on him. He did a great job both as a coach and a GM

You go Marty

[kleese]

Marty is a good coach, always has been. But we hired Spurrier in hopes of acquiring GREATNESS. I still think it was a good move.

And can we PLEASE remember three things from last year:

1. Dallas game in DC: Given a chance to REALLY get into the race, we get WHOOPED by the Cowboys at home. Dominated really. We made Quincy Carter look like Joe Montana.

2. Philly at home: Norv might as well have been the coach. We shot oursleves in the feet so many times that day, I'm surprised we had any toes left.

3. Chicago at home: Given one last shot to make a run, we laid down in that game as well. Remember the play calling on the last drive and the OBVIOUS fake FG that we had no clue about?

Yeah, we finished with two MEANINGLESS wins, so IMO, our record last year was 6-8 in games that mattered, and 5-3 down the stretch.

Marty did a good job of rallying after the 0-5 start, but we reverted when it mattered. People ar blinded by the 8-3 finish. Before you start longing for Marty, pop in a tape of that Dallas game.

[fansince62]

let's see how it all pans out. marty has a record of never...ever....winning the big ones. he's still an *ss in my book and a wasted year getting to spurrier. the lone good thing he did for us was start heading the cap in the right firection. otherwise, he has an unsufferable ego.

[lavarthebeast]

Well whatever helps you sleep better at night.

The fact of the matter is that Marty just didn't have enough talent on that team to even deserve being a playoff contender from the getgo.

Marty coaches first and critiques the talent of his players second. That's what the great coaches in history do. He thought he could teach Jeff George, Snyder's poster boy, a thing or two by instilling a short passing game. This was an original idea never tried with George and looked very good at the time, since his backup wasn't going to get them anywhere regardless. Reality strikes that George still sucks and he brings in Banks, who played well until the chips were really on the table. Is that much of a surprise with him?

Marty's all - time regular season win-loss record was never in question until last year, why is this? Could it be a result of Snyder placing Marty in an awkward position by dangling that GM carrot in front of him?

More than likely, if Snyder hired a real GM BEFORE conjuring an offer to Marty, he'd have more leverage in negotiations. Instead, he flaunted his poker hand. More than likely, if the skins had a GM before last season started, we'd have seen Trent Dilfer as the skins starting qb, not Jeff George. While not a world beater, Dilfer is actually considered solid in today's abyss of weak qb play. More than likely, we'd have seen a playoff team under this scenario. How far he'd have gotten in the playoffs is open to debate only because the skins still lacked talent in key areas and once upon a time he gave Earnest Byner the ball one too many times.

This goes back to the original question - if Snyder had simply offered Marty the coaching position only, and offered more money to do so if need be, and hired any GM with a pulse outside of Cerrato, might the skins current predicament be looking more like the Chargers than the Bengals? Wow, did I just compare the Chargers to the Bengals in a favorable tone? How could this be?

[@DCGoldPants]

Marty = Good Coach

Marty = Bad GM

[codeorama]

Marty is successful there because, 1. He is not the GM and the parts were already in place for him and 2. The chargers were set up to be running defensive team before he arrived. The team is a perfect match for Marty.

[gbear]

Two points:

1) Somebody mentioned that one reason he is successful this year is no Jimmy Raye. I'd just like to point ot the 3rd quarter yesterday where Brees threw one pass, a seven yard dump off. Outside of that, it looked like Redskin football, ie 15 running plays. You won't convince me that the Chargers are winning because of a wide open attack.

2) somebody else mentioned great coaches coach first and evaluate tallent second. Marty gets blasted for trying to reuse George. Well, before I blast him for that and praise SOS, I'd wait to see how Weurful and Mathews turn out. Yet again, we're trying to make something at the QB position from everybody elses' rejects.

[matty dread]

Not sure if this has been mentioned but:

Chew on this, Marty is 12-3 over his last 15 games. Not too shabby.

[Art]

Gbear,

Cam Cameron's attack isn't wide open. It is, however, imaginative. It's also not hard to call running plays in order like that when you have a back ripping off 37 and 58 yard TDs. After those two scores, the Chargers ran off 11 consecutive runs (I think 14 or 15 total going back to the end of the half), managing 34 yards. And, atypical of what Marty did here, he WENT for it on fourth down TWICE. On fourth and 1 from his own 40 he went for it and again on fourth and 1 from the Patriots 40.

Had he done more of that with us, we'd have been happy. That's ballsy playcalling. That's extending drives. That's the kind of thing he wouldn't let happen here. There, he gets into a big game and he lets it all hang out. Here, we got into big games at home against Dallas, Philly and Chicago and we totally shell up. Yes, it's a different method of coaching the offense there that's allowing some success.

[Die Hard]

Come on folks... people seem to be ignoring the facts here. The Chargers opened against the Bengals, Texans and Cardinals. The Chargers would've won those games sans Marty. They did the same thing last year before the second half meltdown exposed them for the team they really are.

The win over the Pats raised some eyebrows. But it was in San Diego and the Pats were due for a letdown.

[fansince62]

jeez....the chatrgers win a few games and they're headed for the SB. let's give it some time and see how this plays out. marty has never been a great coach. how many years has he been in the league? how many SBs? i thought so - same argument we pass on to Iggles fans....right fellas????

[matty dread]

Originally posted by Die Hard

Come on folks... people seem to be ignoring the facts here. The Chargers opened against the Bengals, Texans and Cardinals. The Chargers would've won those games sans Marty. They did the same thing last year before the second half meltdown exposed them for the team they really are.

The win over the Pats raised some eyebrows. But it was in San Diego and the Pats were due for a letdown.

C'mon now, give em some credit. They are playing the schedule they were given, sure they beat some not so good teams, but when they were tested by the champs they stepped up and won. Letdown or not, that was a legit win.

If the Skins beat a team that was the calibur of the Pats, I don't think we would be saying letdown.

[matty dread]

Originally posted by fansince62

jeez....the chatrgers win a few games and they're headed for the SB. let's give it some time and see how this plays out. marty has never been a great coach. how many years has he been in the league? how many SBs? i thought so - same argument we pass on to Iggles fans....right fellas????

Nobody is saying the Chargers are Super Bowl bound, we're just saying they have a good team and Marty is doing a good job. Could you imagine how we'd be acting if the Skins opened 4-0!!?

[Larry]

On a side note, when will these players ever learn not to take their helmets off until the double-u is official? It didn't cost SD, but I'd imagine Marty won't forget to give him an earful.

I've heard somebody on the radio making the claim that Football players are smarter than basketball or baseball players, because more of them have college degrees.

Not shure I buy it.

How many times, after a play, have you seen:

• Player #1, offended at something that happened during the play, draws back and punches player #2 in the facemask?
  
• Player #2 takes off his helmet and punches back.
  

[Riggo-toni]

Puh-lease!!!

As someone who has always hated Schotferbrains, and was quite angry when we hired him, here are a few things for you wackos to consider:

1)Playoff Record 2-7 -Coming from a time when the AFC was a frigging joke. This guy had Montana and Marcus Allen in the backfield and couldn't win in the postseason :laugh: :laugh:

Compare that w/ Gibbs, who won 3/4 of his playoff games in a conference where nearly every year the top 3 or 4 NFC teams could've whooped whoever the AFC sent to the SB. Being the 2nd or 3rd best AFC team back then meant that Marty's teams were maybe the7th or 8th best team in the NFL (and even that's being generous). He's NEVER put together a great team.

2) The real differences between Marty SD and Marty Washington are

a) Schedule - Like always, Schittenheimer has gotten the benefit of playing slackers, with the exception of NE.

Remember when his Chiefs went 15-1, then promptly LOST their first playoff game... :rotflmao: :rotflmao: :rotflmao:

SD isn't as stupidly desperate as Snyder was. They are NOT handing him full control over everything. They REFUSED to let him bring Raye over - Pretty much dictated he would have to accept their choice of OC. Nor are they allowing him to take over the front office. He is essentially just a defensive coordinator come game-time.

c) He walked onto a team that already had solid QBs and a running game. Nobody is stupid enough to let Schotferbrians pick his QB anymore.

3. Look for a late season meltdown, or at the least, a post-season implosion.

:asta: :asta: :asta:

[Soliloquy]

Originally posted by riggo-toni

Remember when his Chiefs went 15-1, then promptly LOST their first playoff game... :rotflmao: :rotflmao: :rotflmao:

Nit: Wasn't that loss against the Broncos during their "Revenge" tour during the playoff run to their Super Bowl victory over the Packers? It's not like they were a bad team.

[NavyDave]

No Raye, No "Frankly" no T Banks, they actually audible,and their O line is solid from game one.

Square and etc the point is he loses when it counts.

Seattle Mariners set a record for wins in a season and what did it get them? A nice soft spot on the sofa next to the Cubs and Devil Rays during the world series.

The Magic, Hornets Mavericks and Spurs looked awesome during the regular season and the result was sharing pop secret with the Bullets between Bud commercial during the finals.

Prior to yesterday Norv was his offensive genius next inline for a coaching job wasnt he? So throw away the Marty Koolaid and show some damn patience.

[Hoosierskin]

San Diego QB Drew Brees only threw 18 times for barely over 100 yards.

Drew indicated that the team only took a few shots downfield from time to time to keep the other team honest. To me it sounds like "Marty ball." Hit the snooze button. Brees is bored out of his mind and averaging less than 6 yards a pass is not what Drew Brees is known for. Marty once again is not using his quarterback correctly. Stop making Drew into Tony Banks. The man is known for throwing the deep ball. Stop holding Drew back so you can implement your system. They can only run Tomlinson so much. What will the Chargers do when the Raiders and Broncos stuff the run? Their little dink passes will not go for first downs. The Chargers have had only one real win this year. The Chargers lucked out against the Cardinals, while the Redskins made mistake after mistake and still won without a worry. The Redskins made the right move bringing in Spurrier. Marty is an average coach at best, but Spurrier will end up being one of the "great" coaches. Give the man some time and he will adapt. Spurrier will make us stop wishing Gibbs was still our head coach.

I certainly will never, ever wish Marty was still our head coach, period.

[Ancalagon the Black]

Hoosier, are you saying that one should throw away a game plan that worked to perfection against the previously unstoppable SB champions...because the QB is bored?

The Pats' run defense was shown to be suspect last week v. the Chiefs. Marty/Cameron exploited this. It worked. They won. Brees should be happy. If he isn't, then he's Jeff George.