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Anything MMA, except thumb wrestling


SUNSTONE
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Round 4 goes to GSP. Both fighters looked slower that round and it was closer than 1 or 2.

3 to 1 GSP. Condit needs a KO.

---------- Post added November-18th-2012 at 12:33 AM ----------

Typical GSP attempting to grind his way to a victory. His wrestling and takedowns are so good no one can defend them, but once the fight actually hits the ground, there is nothing much ever going on other than a lot of grinding.

In round 4 yes. In round 1 and 2 no.

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Mike Goldberg just stop ok. Condit had one big moment in the fight, otherwise it was typical GSP grind it out fare.

---------- Post added November-18th-2012 at 05:43 AM ----------

Two 50-45's eh? Haha Canada.

---------- Post added November-18th-2012 at 05:44 AM ----------

Condit got taken down at will, which would happen to Nick Diaz as well, but I was surprised that Condit was able to work as well from the bottom as he did, which is why I want to see Diaz vs. GSP, because I'd imagine 90% of that fight would be in the same spot, but Diaz is a wizard in BJJ.

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GSP has insane wrestling skills but he has an underrated stiff jab that he uses very well in his stand up game that really makes opponents pick their spots when coming forward. Today he got ROCKED and was in a position where most fighters lose... he not only survived on the bottom but he escaped and dominated the rest of the round, and the rest of the fight.

The crazy thing is that people expect it. All his opponents know he's going to try to get the fight to the ground and they just can't stop it. There aren't many fighters that can essentially impose a ground game in MMA anymore.

Edited by Destino
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GSP with another chance to say he'd like the super-fight with Silva, but goes the vague and/or "nah man I'm good on that" route. It could possibly because he knows Silva doesn't plan to fight for a year and thinks it wouldn't be good on him to try to call him out yet, but I still say he doesn't want any part of that fight and will only do so if the pay day thrown to him is so over the top that he is talked into it.

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It's not that GSP just lays on them, he is trying to do more, but he just doesn't manage to do it.

The question though, is how judges score strikes from the bottom position vs strikes from the top position. It seemed like the majority of time the fight was on the ground, Condit was at least throwing just as many, if not more strikes from the bottom, but then they would throw up a "significant" strike meter, and GSP would be way ahead. Well "significant" is so subjective it should not even be allowed. Just score strikes as strikes, unless they are blocked. A strike to the body, legs or face/head.

If the fight is on the ground and the guy on top is in full guard the entire time, then he should not considered to be "dominating the position battle" I'm sorry , but no, because that is giving the Wrestling discipline a distinct advantage over BJJ. Being in someone's guard is not a dominant position.

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Me thinks we're not getting that GSP/Anderson fight.

I've never thought we would. The size difference is huge. GSP's frame doesn't look like it can hold much more weight at 170. Silva goes up to 205 without even worrying about it and his frame looks like it could easily carry more weight.

Bones Jones v Silva is the mega fight that needs to happen. Neither of those guys have anyone left to fight. GSP has Johnny Hendrix and Nick Diaz.

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People underestimate the size difference Bones has over Silva too though. Which is why these super-fights are a lot more tricky to put together.

Just because Dana White goes around like a chicken, clucking about who he thinks should be doing what, doesn't make it so. People forget, he is a promoter, his primary job is to go out and plant seeds for things the Fertitas think will bring in the most money. This is why we often see young fighters pushed too fast too hard, which in turn is why you see Champions dominating their competition because they are often going against fighters who don't belong in the same ring as them, but the Zuffa hype machine can make a "contender" out of just about anyone

You can't go in by the weigh-in, to properly judge the fighter's fighting weight because they hydrate and pack a lot back on before the actual fight.

Once it is bell time, Bones who already has a severe height/reach advantage over every other LHWer also has a huge weight advantage. He is basically a heavyweight in there by the time the fight starts.

Silva has enough technique to give him a chance, but any time the fights come together, Bones's strength advantage would be so overwhelming.

Edited by NoCalMike
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If the fight is on the ground and the guy on top is in full guard the entire time, then he should not considered to be "dominating the position battle" I'm sorry , but no, because that is giving the Wrestling discipline a distinct advantage over BJJ. Being in someone's guard is not a dominant position.

That's fine but GSP didn't spend any round entirely in full guard. I think the best fighters in MMA don't get taken down easily, if at all. Silva at times has been the exception but he's also won those fights... on the ground. The champs that are hard to knock off are complete enough and dominant in some aspects. Silva can fight on the ground well enough to win but he dominates stand up. GSP can fight well enough on his feet, he beat Jake Shields essentially with nothing more than a stiff jab, but he dominates on the ground. Bones Jones... well we haven't really seen him have trouble anywhere.

---------- Post added November-18th-2012 at 01:17 AM ----------

People underestimate the size difference Bones has over Silva too though. Which is why these super-fights are a lot more tricky to put together.

You are probably right. 6'4 with a 84.5 inch reach is crazy. If he took the time to put on the right kind of muscle weight to move up to heavy weight he would be undersized in the slightest but it would take time as it would be a lot of muscle.

Edited by Destino
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Looking back at GSP/Shields, scorecards were 50-45, 48-47, 48-47. Now from what I remember based on memory alone, GSP dominated the fight anytime he wasn't seemingly taking time off due to Shields unwillingness to take chances. Still weird for me to believe that 2 out of the 3 judges thought that fight was 1 round from crowing Shields the champion.

It just goes to show in MMA things can get skewed a lot by commentary. Almost no one right now would say Shields was more competitive against GSP than Condit, but the scores on this fight were 50-45, 49-46, 49-46. So they obviously thought Condit was less so than Shields.

Now I understand, different things happen in different fights so they are not all equally comparable, but I think Condit's 1:00 of glory, GSP's face damage, and the constant harping on it 2 rounds later, by Goldberg, leads people to believe this fight was closer than it was. Condit definitely had his chance and came really close in that spot, but other than that 1:00 or so, this fight was very typical GSP fare, of taking his opponent down and grinding a way to victory.

---------- Post added November-18th-2012 at 06:40 AM ----------

nick diaz ‏@nickdiaz209

I am not impressed by your performance @GeorgesStPierre

---------- Post added November-18th-2012 at 06:46 AM ----------

nick diaz ‏@nickdiaz209

I am not impressed by your performance @GeorgesStPierre

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If Anderson landed on GSP as much as Condit did tonight, GSP is asleep on the canvas. GSP knows this. He's only been rocked twice in his career, but it's much more about him getting fights to the ground than how great his striking defense is. There was a moment in the last round Condit had GSP backing straight up, chin right there, but his combo was scripted and he just stopped after throwing 3 strikes.

Condit's a diligent fighter, keeps a pace, has a gameplan...Anderson flows with what comes to him. He sees everything so well that he's been daring everyone to hit him the past 5 years. All 8 points of striking are absolutely devastating, GSP literally has to take him down faster than he did to Alves, even Dan Hardy. If it gets 1 minute in to the first round without a takedown attempt, he's waiting too long.

GSP hates Diaz (or maybe he sees a lay & pray opportunity). I think Hendricks will KO GSP, and I bet GSP is feeling boxed-in right now, I think he starts playing the I-hate-Diaz card.

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ibzXcMkWYE9zUF.gif

---------- Post added November-18th-2012 at 12:39 PM ----------

Also, I didn't see this posted but I have been looking forward to this match up since the old Strikeforce Heavyweight Grand Prix.

http://www.mmafighting.com/ufc/2012/11/13/3643520/report-alistair-overeem-vs-antonio-silva-on-super-bowl-weekend

Alistair Overeem vs. Antonio Silva on Super Bowl weekend

The sidelined UFC heavyweight star plans on making his return to the Octagon at UFC 156 in Las Vegas, where he'll meet Antonio "Bigfoot" Silva, according to a Tuesday report by the Las Vegas Review-Journal.

The match is contingent upon Overeem being relicensed by the Nevada Athletic Commission. Overeem is suspended in Nevada through Dec. 27 and must apply and be approved for a new fighter's license before the bout can be made official.

The UFC has confirmed verbal agreements are in place in for the fight.

If he's cleared, Overeem (36-11) and Silva (17-4) will meet in what's shaping up to be a strong card on Feb. 2 at Vegas' Mandalay Bay Events Center. The bout is headlined by a quasi-super fight, as former lightweight champion Frankie Edgar challenges current featherweight champion Jose Aldo Jr.; and Rashad Evans is expected to return and meet Antonio Rogerio Nogueira.

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If Anderson landed on GSP as much as Condit did tonight, GSP is asleep on the canvas. GSP knows this. He's only been rocked twice in his career, but it's much more about him getting fights to the ground than how great his striking defense is. There was a moment in the last round Condit had GSP backing straight up, chin right there, but his combo was scripted and he just stopped after throwing 3 strikes.

Condit's a diligent fighter, keeps a pace, has a gameplan...Anderson flows with what comes to him. He sees everything so well that he's been daring everyone to hit him the past 5 years. All 8 points of striking are absolutely devastating, GSP literally has to take him down faster than he did to Alves, even Dan Hardy. If it gets 1 minute in to the first round without a takedown attempt, he's waiting too long.

GSP hates Diaz (or maybe he sees a lay & pray opportunity). I think Hendricks will KO GSP, and I bet GSP is feeling boxed-in right now, I think he starts playing the I-hate-Diaz card.

I must have been the only one going nuts when GSP got kicked in the head. I was hoping NBK would finish him off, but got to give GSP props for fighting his was through and recovering. That being said, I still hate the take-down-and-pound game plan but hey....its effective for him.

I agree that Anderson would lay GSP out, his boxing is way better than Condits. Carlos looked apprehensive throwing those combos, and he doesn't have the head movement like Silva to slip and counter when he's exchanging punches. GSP's only chance would be his routine game plan, take the fight to the ground.

Out of the 3 possible opponents for GSP, it doesn't look he'll want to stand with any of them really.

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I must have been the only one going nuts when GSP got kicked in the head. I was hoping NBK would finish him off, but got to give GSP props for fighting his was through and recovering. That being said, I still hate the take-down-and-pound game plan but hey....its effective for him.

I agree that Anderson would lay GSP out, his boxing is way better than Condits. Carlos looked apprehensive throwing those combos, and he doesn't have the head movement like Silva to slip and counter when he's exchanging punches. GSP's only chance would be his routine game plan, take the fight to the ground.

Out of the 3 possible opponents for GSP, it doesn't look he'll want to stand with any of them really.

Why would he stand with them when he can take all 3 down at will.

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I don't know if he could take Johny Hendricks down at will.

Yeah he will that college background don't matter. Look at all the top wrestlers he has tooled. When you train with olympic wrestlers who say you could medal says alot. When a few years ago Rashad says he can't stop GSP's shot says alot. That shot is explosive,quick and very powerful.

Atleast Diaz and Anderson can be a threat from there back. Honestly I think Diaz would really give him fits off his back he is constantly looking for subs.

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I don't know if he could take Johny Hendricks down at will.

Hendricks' MMA wrestling hasn't matched his collegiate credentials.

He got outmuscled by Rick Story when they fought. He couldn't get the fight where he wanted, Story smothered him on the inside to avoid Hendricks' power. I don't think GSP will have that much trouble putting him on his back.

Edited by StillUnknown
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http://www.mmafighting.com/ufc/2012/11/19/3668290/firas-zahabi-anderson-silva-vs-georges-st-pierre-at-170-lbs-would-be

"I wouldn't want [st-Pierre] to move up, I'd want Anderson to come down," Zahabi said. "I don't know if Anderson can make 170 or something close to that. If Georges goes up, I know he won't be able to come back down, he's told me many times if he goes up he won't go back down, and I believe him when he says that because he'd want to spend some serious time getting extra size on him. and, ... I would want [silva] to come down as close to 170 as possible if that was the case.

Most educated conjecture on the negotiations toward the potential super fight, which the UFC would like to host in May in either Dallas, Toronto, or Brazil, has the fighters splitting the difference and meeting at 177.5 pounds. But Zahabi is wary of the notion, point out that Silva would still have a significant size advantage after rehydrating between weigh-ins and fight night.

"You know, the thing is, the next day he'll balloon up over 200, and I don't think that's fair," Zahabi said. " I don't think that's a fair fight. If he can make the cut to 170, that would be great. Georges has to fight everyone at 170, and that's the case. Really I think it would be even and fair. Even if [silva] would balloon up the next day, he would be weakened by the weight cut, there would be something there."

on to the next super fight that will never happen

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Silva would ko GSP regardless.

Yeah, or finish him somehow.

I don't think any superfight happens, Silva wants GSP, GSP doesn't want Silva, & neither Silva or Jones wants each other despite the recent hype being thrown out there, it's all just talk. I think they can sell GSP Hendricks, and GSP Diaz if he comes back and wins 1 or 2 ( AND passes the drug tests). They also could sell Silva Weidman and Silva Bisping, probably both in Brazil where Anderson gets a sweet deal. I also don't see Jones leaving LHW for a superfight until he breaks the record for LHW title defenses, regardless of how inferior the public views his challengers. ( I think it's 2 to tie & 3 to break the record)

With each guy being able to take at least 2 other fights, that puts us 12-18 months into the future, and in the UFC anything can happen in that amount of time, a lot of potential contenders could pop up, or one of the 3 could lose. I see Jones jumping from LHW into a HW title fight versus JDS or Alistar before any superfight happens.

Edited by artmonkforHOF
Spelling autocorrect mistakes
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