StillUnknown Posted July 29, 2010 Share Posted July 29, 2010 Fair enough, but one highlight and he's back. Hell, he's the P4P champ in many people's books (and it's hard to argue). He's a dangerous fighter to release, and Dana knows it, but if people stop watching you, buh-bye. people didn't watch him when he was blowing everybody out the cage either look at his ppv #'s compared to other champs even when he was dominating, he never sold as many ppv's as other champs Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
herrmag Posted July 29, 2010 Share Posted July 29, 2010 (edited) people didn't watch him when he was blowing everybody out the cage eitherlook at his ppv #'s compared to other champs even when he was dominating, he never sold as many ppv's as other champs In his defense (****, I'm arguing both sides)....Name a big fighter he's fought since coming to the UFC? Sonnen is not a great fighter, but he's bringing drama like the HW's do. Now, GSP is in the same boat. BUT, he beat Hughes to get recognition....Won more, LOST, and had to re-crown himself. Won, got boring, and fought BJ. Won, and now, does anyone think he's going to lose for a while? Kos is outspoken, and brings drama, so people care. Silva wants no drama. Wants fighter vs fighter, respectable. Sonnen is the first fighter to finally bring some interest to fighting in his division, and he's smart for doing it. EDIT: don't pick apart my GSP statements pls. "A while", etc, include time between fights. Edited July 29, 2010 by herrmag Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Destino Posted July 29, 2010 Share Posted July 29, 2010 There is no one for Silva to fight in his weight class, let's just face reality. They need to set up a super fight in the LHW division with him and a great striker. I'd like to see him fight Evans, little Nog, or maybe even Jon Jones. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
herrmag Posted July 29, 2010 Share Posted July 29, 2010 Yep, agreed. Again, like someone else said (Zoed?), the hype by Sonnen is to make this fight get buys. That's it. Look for loopholes all anyone wants, the fight will end with a KO or UD by Silva, as usual. Silva isn't interested in hype. If he was, he would go after Shogun. His excuse was to avoid Machida....Well..... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mickalino Posted July 29, 2010 Share Posted July 29, 2010 If Sonnen wins, where would it rank on the list of greatest sports upsets ever ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
herrmag Posted July 29, 2010 Share Posted July 29, 2010 If Sonnen wins, where would it rank on the list of greatest sports upsets ever ? Overshadows Werdum v Fedor IMO. Silva is in his prime (yeah, he's over 30), and has been fighting in the UFC for a few years now. Fedor had years of "soft" fights (we can argue the softness, but it was undoubtedly UFC rejects). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
d0ublestr0ker0ll Posted July 29, 2010 Share Posted July 29, 2010 (edited) There is no one for Silva to fight in his weight class, let's just face reality. They need to set up a super fight in the LHW division with him and a great striker. I'd like to see him fight Evans, little Nog, or maybe even Jon Jones. Exactly, when it comes down to it, whether or not you think Silva contributed to the piece of trash fights he's been a part of lately...there are some huge fights waiting for him at LHW. The best thing to do after Sonnen (assuming he keeps the belt) is to move the majority of his fights to LHW. It will only give a huge jolt to that consistently hot division. Things will be as interesting as they've ever been in the most interesting division in MMA history. Just a nitpick, I don't think Jones is anywhere close to where you want him to take on the P4P best fighter. Obviously, everyone knows how the UFC should use him. Build him up, don't use him as a stepping stone. I think you've even argued before that they should take it slowly with Jones. Well, now's the time he should start seeing some pretty good fighters...not Anderson Silva. It's a lose-lose situation there. I do agree with your premise, however. Jones vs. Anderson when they are both in the top 4 of the division would be great. Which, depending on how dominating Jones is, could happen within a couple years. Edited July 29, 2010 by d0ublestr0ker0ll Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
d0ublestr0ker0ll Posted July 29, 2010 Share Posted July 29, 2010 If Sonnen wins, where would it rank on the list of greatest sports upsets ever ? It's a tough case against GSP vs. Serra as being the biggest upset in MMA history. If Sonnen wins I don't think it will be as crazy as that, unless of course he finishes Anderson early - then you have an argument. There have been others, Randleman vs. Cro Cop...and in retrospect it seems like Randy Couture should have always mauled Tim Sylvia, but before that fight people were saying Sylvia is just too much size and length for him to handle. Still, both of those fights aren't near Serra taking GSP in quick fashion. If GSP didn't lose that fight, he might be considered #1 P4P in a lot more fans' books. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StillUnknown Posted July 29, 2010 Share Posted July 29, 2010 There is no one for Silva to fight in his weight class, let's just face reality. dont tell that to Dana. Vitor Belfort is still getting the winner of Anderson/Sonnen despite not fighting at all this year and despite his last two victories at MW being over Matt Lindland & Terry Martin and if Alan Belcher takes out Maia, Dana will hype him up as the next challenger since he's starting to run his mouth. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
#98QBKiller Posted July 29, 2010 Share Posted July 29, 2010 I've got $1 dollar that when the bell rings Sonnen goes to his back and invites Silva to his guard:ols: Sonnen's a wrestler who pretty much hates BJJ. What's probably going to happen is he's going to start shooting for takedowns and catch a knee to the chin at some point. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Patrick86L Posted July 29, 2010 Share Posted July 29, 2010 New episode of Overeem's documentary featuring Bas, Mousasi, and the change of plans. THE REEM EPISODE 5 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Destino Posted July 29, 2010 Share Posted July 29, 2010 (edited) Exactly, when it comes down to it, whether or not you think Silva contributed to the piece of trash fights he's been a part of lately...there are some huge fights waiting for him at LHW. The best thing to do after Sonnen (assuming he keeps the belt) is to move the majority of his fights to LHW. It will only give a huge jolt to that consistently hot division. Things will be as interesting as they've ever been in the most interesting division in MMA history.Just a nitpick, I don't think Jones is anywhere close to where you want him to take on the P4P best fighter. Obviously, everyone knows how the UFC should use him. Build him up, don't use him as a stepping stone. I think you've even argued before that they should take it slowly with Jones. Well, now's the time he should start seeing some pretty good fighters...not Anderson Silva. It's a lose-lose situation there. I do agree with your premise, however. Jones vs. Anderson when they are both in the top 4 of the division would be great. Which, depending on how dominating Jones is, could happen within a couple years. I do think that Jon Jones needs to develop but after they tossed him in the ring with Vera and he caved the guys face in he's pretty much opened the door to a "let's see what you really got" fight. He's amongst the top ten LHW in the UFC at this point. Here is one such list: 1 Mauricio Rua 2 Lyoto Machida 3 Rashad Evans 4 Quinton Jackson 5 Anderson Silva 6 Forrest Griffin 7 Antonio Rogerio Nogueira 8 Muhammed Lawal 9 Gegard Mousasi 10 Thiago Silva 11 Jon Jones Obviously you have two guys in there that aren't in the UFC so he can't fight them. That leave Thiago, little Nog, Griffin, and Silva. Jackson, Evans, Machida, and Rua will be fighting eachother. I could see a Jones Thiago Silva fight and a little Nog Spider Silva match up. Edited July 29, 2010 by Destino Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
d0ublestr0ker0ll Posted July 30, 2010 Share Posted July 30, 2010 (edited) I do think that Jon Jones needs to develop but after they tossed him in the ring with Vera and he caved the guys face in he's pretty much opened the door to a "let's see what you really got" fight. He's amongst the top ten LHW in the UFC at this point. Here is one such list:1 Mauricio Rua 2 Lyoto Machida 3 Rashad Evans 4 Quinton Jackson 5 Anderson Silva 6 Forrest Griffin 7 Antonio Rogerio Nogueira 8 Muhammed Lawal 9 Gegard Mousasi 10 Thiago Silva 11 Jon Jones Obviously you have two guys in there that aren't in the UFC so he can't fight them. That leave Thiago, little Nog, Griffin, and Silva. Jackson, Evans, Machida, and Rua will be fighting eachother. I could see a Jones Thiago Silva fight and a little Nog Spider Silva match up. I'm not arguing against Jones taking on bigger fights, just arguing against him taking on the top dog on the planet right now. You have to be careful with Silva, he's obviously notorious for destroying great fighters. Give him a fight or two at LHW before he gets the title shot; do not make one of those fights against Jones. The kid is a unique case of youth and a developing skill-set which looks like one day it could become some of the best **** we've seen in the sport. His win over Vera was amazing, but he is hanging on to a UFC career by his fingernails, Jones hasn't even faced anyone top 10 in his own division, much less the world. To give him Anderson any time soon would be insane. Edited July 30, 2010 by d0ublestr0ker0ll Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sebowski Posted July 30, 2010 Share Posted July 30, 2010 Anderson said recently he has no plans to change weight divisions. He said he will fight the rest of his career at 185. A year ago he said he wanted to try heavyweight, and after that he said he wanted to try to make welterweight, so take it with a grain of salt. He definitely won't fight Machida or Lil' Nog though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Destino Posted July 30, 2010 Share Posted July 30, 2010 I'm not arguing against Jones taking on bigger fights, just arguing against him taking on the top dog on the planet right now. You have to be careful with Silva, he's obviously notorious for destroying great fighters. Give him a fight or two at LHW before he gets the title shot; do not make one of those fights against Jones. The kid is a unique case of youth and a developing skill-set which looks like one day it could become some of the best **** we've seen in the sport. His win over Vera was amazing, but he is hanging on to a UFC career by his fingernails, Jones hasn't even faced anyone top 10 in his own division, much less the world. To give him Anderson any time soon would be insane. Are we sure about him destroying "great" fighters? The best fighters he's taken on are Griffin (who I think is over rated), Dan Henderson (who is way past his prime and won the first round), and Rich Franklin (who is far from great). I'd really like to see him tested by someone that is both very good an in their prime. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
d0ublestr0ker0ll Posted July 30, 2010 Share Posted July 30, 2010 (edited) Are we sure about him destroying "great" fighters? The best fighters he's taken on are Griffin (who I think is over rated), Dan Henderson (who is way past his prime and won the first round), and Rich Franklin (who is far from great). I'd really like to see him tested by someone that is both very good an in their prime. Yeah, I use the term loosely. I call most high level UFC fighters great...more out of respect than anything else. Edited July 30, 2010 by d0ublestr0ker0ll Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StillUnknown Posted July 31, 2010 Share Posted July 31, 2010 (edited) some odds for UFC 117 from betus.com: Anderson Silva: -500Chael Sonnen: +325 Jon Fitch: -125 Thiago Alves: +105 Ricardo Almeida: -175 Matt Hughes: +150 Junior Dos Santos: -385 Roy Nelson: +285 Dustin Hazelett: -120 Rick Story: -105 Phil Davis: -700 Rodney Wallace: +500 lb4gQLj7wk8 how long do you think Jones stays at LHW? he looks alot more muscular now than he did in his first 2 fights in the UFC. he's said repeatedly his body is still filling out and he'll definitely be a HW at some point Edited July 31, 2010 by StillUnknown Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
d0ublestr0ker0ll Posted July 31, 2010 Share Posted July 31, 2010 (edited) Nelson at +285 ain't bad. Otherwise I'll lay off. Check the end of that video, Jones lands a perfect knee at about 30%. Still dazed the guy, lol. Edited July 31, 2010 by d0ublestr0ker0ll Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StillUnknown Posted July 31, 2010 Share Posted July 31, 2010 (edited) Nelson at +285 ain't bad. Otherwise I'll lay off.Check the end of that video, Jones lands a perfect knee at about 30%. Still dazed the guy, lol. the nelson number is talking to me JDS isn't a big HW, if nelson can drag him down, it might be tough for JDS to get the blob off of him i was kinda surprised to see Almeida is the favorite in his fight, even if he is only a small favorite Edited July 31, 2010 by StillUnknown Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
d0ublestr0ker0ll Posted July 31, 2010 Share Posted July 31, 2010 (edited) i was kinda surprised to see Almeida is the favorite in his fight, even if he is only a small favorite At this point I think Almeida is the better fighter. We'll see. Edited July 31, 2010 by d0ublestr0ker0ll Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mickalino Posted July 31, 2010 Share Posted July 31, 2010 I'd like to see a Lesnar vs. Butterbean fight Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
#98QBKiller Posted July 31, 2010 Share Posted July 31, 2010 how long do you think Jones stays at LHW? he looks alot more muscular now than he did in his first 2 fights in the UFC. he's said repeatedly his body is still filling out and he'll definitely be a HW at some point Jones' brother is a DT for the Ravens and he has another brother playing football for Syracuse, I'm pretty sure he's got the genes for it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StillUnknown Posted July 31, 2010 Share Posted July 31, 2010 Jones' brother is a DT for the Ravens and he has another brother playing football for Syracuse, I'm pretty sure he's got the genes for it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Destino Posted July 31, 2010 Share Posted July 31, 2010 Jones' brother is a DT for the Ravens and he has another brother playing football for Syracuse, I'm pretty sure he's got the genes for it. Problem with the heavy weight division is that to be a true heavy weight you have to be huge. Cut weight to be in the division huge. Carwin and Lesnar are the prototypes for the division. Massive humans with freakish strength. Skill matters but without the natural size and strength you rarely will get a chance to apply it. The days of Couture type guys in the HW division are gone. Jon Jones is big but he's not that big. He fights at 205 and cuts weight to get there. The HW champ fights at 265 and cuts weight to get there. A 60 pound different is a huge difference. To put that in perspective it's more weight than the jump from LW (155) to LHW (205) which is a 50 pound difference. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StillUnknown Posted July 31, 2010 Share Posted July 31, 2010 Problem with the heavy weight division is that to be a true heavy weight you have to be huge. Cut weight to be in the division huge. Carwin and Lesnar are the prototypes for the division. Massive humans with freakish strength. Skill matters but without the natural size and strength you rarely will get a chance to apply it. The days of Couture type guys in the HW division are gone. Jon Jones is big but he's not that big. He fights at 205 and cuts weight to get there. The HW champ fights at 265 and cuts weight to get there. A 60 pound different is a huge difference. To put that in perspective it's more weight than the jump from LW (155) to LHW (205) which is a 50 pound difference. he could always follow in the footsteps of the Reem. with Bones' frame, a steady diet of horsemeat could have him up to the 250 range in no time Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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