StillUnknown Posted October 25, 2009 Share Posted October 25, 2009 (edited) all the major mma websites scored the fight for Shogun as well Stefan Struve got Submission of the night. Pat Barry got KO of the night, & fight of the night. Dana said Rumble would've won KO of the night had he not been overweight Edited October 25, 2009 by StillUnknown Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sebowski Posted October 25, 2009 Share Posted October 25, 2009 I'll comb through the comments and talk about it more tomorrow, but I had it 3 rounds to 2 for Machida. I plan on watching it again, probably in mute (Rogan and Goldberg sucked for that fight.) to get a more objective view. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sebowski Posted October 25, 2009 Share Posted October 25, 2009 You don't have to "beat the champ" like in boxing. I will respond to this now since it caught my eye... These are the same exact judges and commissions as boxing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chachie Posted October 25, 2009 Share Posted October 25, 2009 Here's my "morning-after" comments. The only rationale I can apply to last night's decision in Machida's favor are as follows.. 1. Machida came in as champ so he started every round in a 10-9 lead. 2. He actually won round 2 in my mind, so he must have gotten a 10-8 from at least 2 judges. 3. It's hard to beat a champion by decision and the fight was barely close enough to warrant keeping the champ on his throne. Barely. The rationale with which I support Shogun actually winning that fight, which I personally scored 4-1 for Rua.. 1. He played a good Machida against Machida. He avoided getting hit as much as Lyoto usually does. 2. He broke Lyoto down with leg kicks and landed late right hands that visibly shook Machida. 3. He always looked fresh and relaxed. By round 3, Lyoto was getting immobile and frustrated. 4. Both fighters were red in the ribs but Machida was absolutely tenderized by round 4. He was having trouble breathing freely, his balance was fragile, and he looked resigned to relying on the judges to hold his belt in place. I'm not the biggest MMA expert in this thread but I've seen a TON of fights in the last 10 years. I watched a victory for Rua last night by every standard I've been taught by you MMA guys to note while judging an MMA event. (I also still don't see a guy who could beat Silva at 205.) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Opiate-Zeo Posted October 25, 2009 Share Posted October 25, 2009 I'm a big Machida supporter. Here is my take on the fight last night. Round 1 was a toss up. Both looked good in this round. I guess it really depended on the judges position on what landed. Rounds 2 and 3 went to Machida. He landed more strikes and was more elusive during these 2 rounds. Rounds 4 and 5 were Rua's. He came on strong and really slowed Machida down with the counter leg kicks. I honestly didn't know who was going to win the decision. I was happy Machida won, but damn Rua put up a hell of a fight. I normally don't get pissed at the UFC announcers compared to others, but jesus they were nuthugging Rua the whole fight. At least 4 times Rua threw a kick that was countered with a straight left to Rua's face and all they talked about was the kick. But, what really got me is the 7-9 punches Machida landed in a flurry and all they could talk about was the one right hand Rua landed. I almost muted it. Anyways, That how I saw it. The best fight against Machida so far. This is the competition Machida should face all the time. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StillUnknown Posted October 25, 2009 Share Posted October 25, 2009 (edited) judging by his reaction, it looks like Machida thought he lost the fight before they announced the decision http://mmajunkie.com/news/16615/dana-white-i-think-there-will-be-a-rematch-between-lyoto-machida-and-shogun-rua.mma looks like there will be an immediate rematch, hopefully nothing gets in the way of that Edited October 25, 2009 by StillUnknown Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StillUnknown Posted October 25, 2009 Share Posted October 25, 2009 Pat Barry is probably the best striker in the HW division, shame his ground game is garbage: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Destino Posted October 25, 2009 Share Posted October 25, 2009 I'm a big Machida supporter. Here is my take on the fight last night.Round 1 was a toss up. Both looked good in this round. I guess it really depended on the judges position on what landed. Rounds 2 and 3 went to Machida. He landed more strikes and was more elusive during these 2 rounds. Rounds 4 and 5 were Rua's. He came on strong and really slowed Machida down with the counter leg kicks. I honestly didn't know who was going to win the decision. I was happy Machida won, but damn Rua put up a hell of a fight. I normally don't get pissed at the UFC announcers compared to others, but jesus they were nuthugging Rua the whole fight. At least 4 times Rua threw a kick that was countered with a straight left to Rua's face and all they talked about was the kick. But, what really got me is the 7-9 punches Machida landed in a flurry and all they could talk about was the one right hand Rua landed. I almost muted it. Anyways, That how I saw it. The best fight against Machida so far. This is the competition Machida should face all the time. I agree with this. I don't know why people are pretending rounds 1 and 2 were "obviously" for Rua. I didn't see anything in either of those two rounds that would make those absolute. 4 and 5 were clearly his and 3 was clearly for Machida. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StillUnknown Posted October 25, 2009 Share Posted October 25, 2009 (edited) i wanna know Doc Hamilton's reasoning for giving Machida the 4th round Edited October 25, 2009 by StillUnknown Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StillUnknown Posted October 25, 2009 Share Posted October 25, 2009 http://fightmetric.com/fights/Machida-Shogun.html Shogun landed 82 strikes out of 149. Lyoto landed 42 strikes out of 116. Shogun had 55% accuracy Lyoto had 36% accuracy Shogun landed 17 shots to the head (12 power shots). Lyoto landed 14 shots to the head (8 power shots). Lyoto landed 24 shots to the body Shogun landed 16 shots to the body Shogun landed 49 leg kicks. Lyoto landed 4 leg kicks. Shogun landed 48 strikes from distance. Lyoto landed 26 strikes from distance. Shogun landed 34 strikes from the clinch. Lyoto landed 16 strikes from the clinch. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
#98QBKiller Posted October 25, 2009 Share Posted October 25, 2009 (edited) Lol, I don't know if you'll find anyone (besides Hamilton) that will claim that Machida won round 4. I think the general consensus is that Shogun won rounds 4 & 5 for sure. Personally, I have Shogun winning rounds 3, 4, and 5. And I can see an argument for him winning round 1, in fact I lean toward him winning round 1. Edited October 25, 2009 by #98QBKiller Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chachie Posted October 25, 2009 Share Posted October 25, 2009 http://fightmetric.com/fights/Machida-Shogun.htmlShogun landed 82 strikes out of 149. Lyoto landed 42 strikes out of 116. Shogun had 55% accuracy Lyoto had 36% accuracy Shogun landed 17 shots to the head (12 power shots). Lyoto landed 14 shots to the head (8 power shots). Lyoto landed 24 shots to the body Shogun landed 16 shots to the body Shogun landed 49 leg kicks. Lyoto landed 4 leg kicks. Shogun landed 48 strikes from distance. Lyoto landed 26 strikes from distance. Shogun landed 34 strikes from the clinch. Lyoto landed 16 strikes from the clinch. Anybody got any rebuttal for this? I love Lyoto Machida but he lost last night. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
#98QBKiller Posted October 25, 2009 Share Posted October 25, 2009 I don't see any way to argue against those #'s. Stuffed takedowns and don't really trump lop-sided striking numbers. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
#98QBKiller Posted October 25, 2009 Share Posted October 25, 2009 SI's take on the card: http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/2009/writers/ben_fowlkes/10/25/UFC.104/index.html Machida wins ... but did he? They say you have to clearly beat the champion if you want to take his belt. Mauricio "Shogun" Rua seemed to have done just that at UFC 104 on Saturday night, but the mere fact that UFC light heavyweight champ Lyoto Machida was still conscious at the end was apparently enough for the judges to give him the victory. For five rounds Rua punished Machida, battering his ribs and thighs with brutal kicks, and yet somehow Rua still walked out of the Staples Center in Los Angeles without the belt around his waist. In a decision that was met with a chorus of boos from the fans in attendance, Machida retained his title thanks to the unanimous nod from the judges, all three of whom scored the bout 48-47 for the champion. Exactly what fight those judges were watching is still unclear. The elusive Machida, who makes opponents miss before making them pay, was nowhere to be found in his first title defense. After finding his range early on, Rua had no problem landing repeated kicks to Machida's body throughout the championship bout, while successfully avoiding most of the typically effective Machida counter strikes. By the end of the fight Machida's ribs glowed bright red and his face was bloodied like never before in his UFC career. The fighter who had never lost a round suddenly seemed to have lost at least three, if not more. But for reasons that will likely remain a mystery, the judges didn't agree. When asked for his take on the verdict, a subdued Machida could only point out that with all the judges on his side, it must have been the right decision. Not that it would be the first time three judges all got it wrong together. In the night's co-main event, heavyweight Cain Velasquez proved himself hype-worthy by overwhelming a bigger, slower Ben Rothwell en route to a second-round TKO victory. Velasquez relied on his superior speed and wrestling ability to put Rothwell on his back over and over again in the first round, nearly finishing the former IFL standout with a fast-paced ground-and-pound attack in the first. Rothwell would last into the second, only to face more of the same from the relentless Velasquez. As he scrambled to his feet off another Velasquez takedown he absorbed a torrent of left hands to the jaw, prompting a referee stoppage that was peculiarly timed, but not altogether incomprehensible. With the impressive win against an experienced and game opponent, Velasquez may have positioned himself near the top of the elite list of UFC heavyweight title contenders. In other action from UFC 104: • Lightweight Gleison Tibau had no trouble taking Josh Neer down early and often, controlling the gritty brawler for the entirety of their three-round tilt and winning the unanimous decision. • Chael Sonnen out-wrestled and outworked Japanese middleweight Yushin Okami over the course of three rounds, winning a clear cut unanimous decision victory. • Jorge Rivera notched his second straight UFC victory with a TKO win over Rob Kimmons at 1:53 of round three. • Lightweight Joe Stevenson grinned his way through a round and a half of action against Spencer Fisher, and had plenty to smile about when he locked up a crucifix position and began raining down elbows on a defenseless Fisher, forcing the referee stoppage at 4:03 of round two. • Though some might have questioned Anthony Johnson's focus when he came in six pounds overweight for his welterweight scrap with Yoshiyuki Yoshida, "Rumble" wasted no time once in the Octagon, picking Yoshida apart and putting him away early with a big right hand just 41 seconds into the first round. • Twice Ryan Bader came very close to finishing Eric Schafer, thanks to the looping right hand that is quickly becoming his signature punch, but Schafer proved to be a game opponent as he held on for all three rounds, eventually dropping the unanimous decision to the former "Ultimate Fighter" winner. • Heavyweight Pat Barry proved to have the faster hands in what was primarily a kickboxing match with Antoni Hardonk, where Barry battled through inadvertent eye pokes and bone-rattling leg kicks to win a TKO victory at 2:30 of round two. • AKA light heavyweight Kyle Kingsbury got his first UFC win via split decision against Razak Al-Hassan after three very close rounds of action. • Lanky Dutch fighter Stefan Struve proved his grappling bona fides against Chase Gormley, winning via triangle choke submission at 4:04 of round one. Read more: http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/2009/writers/ben_fowlkes/10/25/UFC.104/index.html#ixzz0UxxTv5Nu Get a free NFL Team Jacket and Tee with SI Subscription Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
#98QBKiller Posted October 25, 2009 Share Posted October 25, 2009 Amid all of the UFC drama, Dream 12 was overshadowed...if you haven't seen it, look it up online, it's pretty sweet seeing guys fight in a cage in Japan. http://mmajunkie.com/news/16616/alistair-overeem-bellator-champ-eddie-alvarez-among-dream-12-winners.mma Alistair Overeem, Bellator champ Eddie Alvarez among DREAM.12 winners by Dann Stupp on Oct 25, 2009 at 9:40 am ET James Thompson, introduced as Alistair Overeem's opponent on the eve of Saturday's DREAM.12 event, didn't overcome the hideous odds against him – as high as 18-to-1 against with some books – and suffered a swift, first-round submission loss to the Strikeforce heavyweight champion Alistair Overeem. The heavyweight bout capped today's DREAM.12 event. The event, which also featured a victory for Bellator Fighting Championships lightweight champion Eddie Alvarez, took place at Osaka Castle Hall in Osaka, Japan. The show aired in North America on HDNet. Overeem, now 6-0 since winning the Strikeforce belt in November 2007, easily submitted the former Cage Rage and EliteXC fighter. The Dutch striker immediately attempted a flying knee and missed – and the momentum nearly sent him out of the organization's newly debuted cage. Overeem (31-11), though, quickly engaged again and slapped on the fight-ending guillotine choke from the standing position and forced Thompson (14-11) to tap in a little more than a half minute. Overeem, also a K-1 kickboxer, is expected to fight a couple times more in Japan before year's end before returning the U.S. to make his first-ever and long-awaited Strikeforce title defense in early 2010. Also picking up a win at DREAM.12 and looking quite comfortable in the DREAM cage (which is expected be used once a year in favor of the traditional ring) was Alvarez, who made his first appearance since winning Bellator's eight-man tournament, lightweight belt and nearly $200,000 in purses and bonuses for the performance. With Bellator looking to determine a challenger for Alvarez with a second-season lightweight tournament, which doesn't begin until April, the promotion allowed the Philadelphia fighter to compete overseas. The decision looked as thought it could be a disastrous one early on. Opponent Katsunori Kikuno, lightweight champion of the DEEP promotion, frustrated Alvarez early. Alvarez was unable to get the fight to the ground, dodged an early neck crank and absorbed some body shots before the first round ended. Alvarez (19-2), though, quickly took over in the second and dropped Kikuno (12-2-1) with a big right hand. He then nearly ended it via guillotine choke but scored a subsequent takedown and locked in the fight-ending arm-triangle choke soon after. Also picking up victories at DREAM.12 were DREAM welterweight champion Marius Zaromskis (13-3), who scored a head-kick KO of Ho Bae Myeon (8-1) in a non-title fight; Yoshiro Maeda (26-7-2), a former WEC fighter who submitted Chase Beebe (12-5-1) and delivered the former WEC bantamweight champ his fourth straight loss; and the legendary Kazushi Sakuraba (26-12-1), who absorbed a ton of punishment before finally submitting Zelg "Little Cro Cop" Galesic (9-5) via kneebar in the first round. The full results included: * Alistair Overeem def. James Thomson via submission (guillotine choke) - Round 1 * Eddie Alvarez def. Katsunori Kikuno via submission (arm-triangle choke) - Round 2 * Marius Zaromskis def. Myeon Ho Bae via KO (head kick) - Round 1 * Kazushi Sakuraba def. Zelg Galesic via submission (kneebar) - Round 1 * Katsuyori Shibata def. Tokimitsu Ishizawa by TKO (punches) - Round 1 * Yoon Dong Sik def. Tarec Saffiedine via split decision * Yoshiro Maeda def. Chase Beebe via submission (rear naked choke) - Round 1 * Kuniyoshi Hironaka def. "Parky" Won Sik Park via TKO (corner's stoppage) - Round 1 * Tomoya Miya****a def. Keisuke Fujiwara via unanimous decision Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StillUnknown Posted October 25, 2009 Share Posted October 25, 2009 (edited) Amid all of the UFC drama, Dream 12 was overshadowed...if you haven't seen it, look it up online, it's pretty sweet seeing guys fight in a cage in Japan.http://mmajunkie.com/news/16616/alistair-overeem-bellator-champ-eddie-alvarez-among-dream-12-winners.mma overeem damn near jumped the cage. lol Edited October 25, 2009 by StillUnknown Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sebowski Posted October 25, 2009 Share Posted October 25, 2009 I'm a big Machida supporter. Here is my take on the fight last night.Round 1 was a toss up. Both looked good in this round. I guess it really depended on the judges position on what landed. Rounds 2 and 3 went to Machida. He landed more strikes and was more elusive during these 2 rounds. Rounds 4 and 5 were Rua's. He came on strong and really slowed Machida down with the counter leg kicks. I honestly didn't know who was going to win the decision. I was happy Machida won, but damn Rua put up a hell of a fight. I normally don't get pissed at the UFC announcers compared to others, but jesus they were nuthugging Rua the whole fight. At least 4 times Rua threw a kick that was countered with a straight left to Rua's face and all they talked about was the kick. But, what really got me is the 7-9 punches Machida landed in a flurry and all they could talk about was the one right hand Rua landed. I almost muted it. Anyways, That how I saw it. The best fight against Machida so far. This is the competition Machida should face all the time. I agree with every word in this post. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ZoEd Posted October 26, 2009 Share Posted October 26, 2009 I agree with every word in this post. Me also. I understand people wanting to see more out of Machida but he obviously won the first three rounds in my opinion. The first was in fact close but I still gave the nod to Machida. As for the numbers, hind sight is 20/20. The judges don't have access to these numbers when scoring the fight. All I keep reading about is how much damage Rua's kicks were doing but Machida did some damage to Rua as well. You have to whip the champs ass to take the belt and Rua just didn't whoop his ass. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
#98QBKiller Posted October 26, 2009 Share Posted October 26, 2009 (edited) You have to whip the champs ass to take the belt No you don't, that's a myth and long has been. No where in the rules of MMA does it say that you have to "whip the champ's ass" or any of the like. A win is a win, whether it's a points win or a finish. That's one of the most asinine sayings ever. If the champ is hypothetically the best, then why do they need a handicap? PS: Last night's fight wasn't razor thin either. Machida was outpointed and simply didn't do enough to warrant a win. The FightMetric numbers are just further evidence of botched judging. Edited October 26, 2009 by #98QBKiller Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sebowski Posted October 26, 2009 Share Posted October 26, 2009 Anybody got any rebuttal for this? I love Lyoto Machida but he lost last night. I don't see any way to argue against those #'s. Stuffed takedowns and don't really trump lop-sided striking numbers. Here you go: Rua padded his numbers greatly in the two rounds he won. Machida still just barely won the first three rounds though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StillUnknown Posted October 26, 2009 Share Posted October 26, 2009 pat barry's backflip>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>gsp's backflip Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KDawg Posted October 26, 2009 Share Posted October 26, 2009 I haven't said much, but I had the fight scored 48-47 in favor of Rua, but only because no round was really lopsided enough to give Machida an 8. While watching the fight, I thought Rua pretty much dominated Machida. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lovetoaster Posted October 26, 2009 Share Posted October 26, 2009 pat barry's backflip>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>gsp's backflip That was pretty impressive. I was hoping he was going to go with the Techno Viking though... http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YPx-g5MQh8s Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
#98QBKiller Posted October 26, 2009 Share Posted October 26, 2009 Here you go:Rua padded his numbers greatly in the two rounds he won. Machida still just barely won the first three rounds though. Some people keep saying that, but how did Machida win round 3? Rounds 1 & 2 were very close, but round 3 wasn't that close. The action slowed down in that round so maybe people are misinterpreting it? I went back and watched the fight again yesterday and in Round 3 Shogun completely tears up Machida's legs with those devastating leg kicks, he also lands a few hard body kicks and he even tagged Machida at the end of the round. pat barry's backflip>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>gsp's backflip Lol, Berry can actually land on his feet, GSP usually ends up in some sort of squat. That was pretty impressive. I was hoping he was going to go with the Techno Viking though...http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YPx-g5MQh8s :laugh: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chachie Posted October 26, 2009 Share Posted October 26, 2009 (edited) Here you go:Rua padded his numbers greatly in the two rounds he won. Machida still just barely won the first three rounds though. I had Lyoto winning only round 2 all night. Do you have a round-by-round version of the strike count to prove this? Or does someone? Edited October 26, 2009 by Chachie Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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