Destino Posted October 25, 2009 Share Posted October 25, 2009 I've been talking with SkinsOrlando about the fight, and we both came to the conclusion that it was obvious both fighters overstrategized for this fight and veered too far away from their natural styles. I think the fight was Shogun's to win if he would just press the action more. He settled for kicks that slowed Machida down but then did nothing with it. He had a slow tired fighter in front of him round 4 and 5 and couldn't do anything with it but score points via leg kicks. He should have moved into finish the fight but was too afraid of the counter. Machida didn't have the legs to counter and was vulnerable but Shogun wouldn't commit. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Heisenberg Posted October 25, 2009 Share Posted October 25, 2009 Thanks for clearing that up. I thought you were among the wine and cheese L.A. crowd who took time out of their tanning beds to go see some entertainment. I think during every fight I heard some kind of "boo" No way. I like UFC a lot and have really enjoyed learning about the sports. I just think the decision was a highway robbery and really made me mad I ordered the fight - even though I enjoyed the hell out of the 3 hours before it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Destino Posted October 25, 2009 Share Posted October 25, 2009 No way. I like UFC a lot and have really enjoyed learning about the sports.I just think the decision was a highway robbery and really made me mad I ordered the fight - even though I enjoyed the hell out of the 3 hours before it. The biggest robbery was Bisping over Matt Hamill Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StillUnknown Posted October 25, 2009 Share Posted October 25, 2009 (edited) good news is that Shogun appears to be back to form from his Pride days. he's only 27, so he'll definitely be puttin on some great fights for the next few years. whatever injuries he had, he appears to be healed completely i was betting on him to gas, but he didn't. he looked like he could've went a couple of more rounds Edited October 25, 2009 by StillUnknown Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Slacky McSlackAss Posted October 25, 2009 Share Posted October 25, 2009 I think the fight was Shogun's to win if he would just press the action more. He settled for kicks that slowed Machida down but then did nothing with it. He had a slow tired fighter in front of him round 4 and 5 and couldn't do anything with it but score points via leg kicks. He should have moved into finish the fight but was too afraid of the counter.Machida didn't have the legs to counter and was vulnerable but Shogun wouldn't commit. Thats part of the overstrategizing though. Running after Machida is a bad idea, his quickness gives him a huge advantage while being chased. I think thats the main reason that Rua stayed back and kept Machida at bay with the leg kicks. Still think that Rua got robbed though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Slacky McSlackAss Posted October 25, 2009 Share Posted October 25, 2009 The biggest robbery was Bisping over Matt Hamill Atleast that fight was a split decision. In this case, all three judges were blind. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StillUnknown Posted October 25, 2009 Share Posted October 25, 2009 The biggest robbery was Bisping over Matt Hamill now this we can agree on Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Destino Posted October 25, 2009 Share Posted October 25, 2009 Thats part of the overstrategizing though. Running after Machida is a bad idea, his quickness gives him a huge advantage while being chased. I think thats the main reason that Rua stayed back and kept Machida at bay with the leg kicks. Still think that Rua got robbed though. That's true. I just think that quickness was gone in round 4 and 5. It was time to run at him.... and no one fights that style better than Rua. He had him, I was even telling my friends, if Rua goes after him Machida is going to sleep. Never did though. I think you are right, he had a game plan and stuck to it too much. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Destino Posted October 25, 2009 Share Posted October 25, 2009 Atleast that fight was a split decision. In this case, all three judges were blind. Oh please. Machida if you even want to argue that he lost, did so to leg kicks. Bisping straight up got his ass kicked. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Slacky McSlackAss Posted October 25, 2009 Share Posted October 25, 2009 Oh please. Machida if you even want to argue that he lost, did so to leg kicks. Bisping straight up got his ass kicked. Definitely agree, but thats what happens when you get British judges and a British fighter. Regardless, both fights were robberies. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StillUnknown Posted October 25, 2009 Share Posted October 25, 2009 there should be an immediate rematch as far as i'm concern there really is no obvious next in line. i heard some horrible rumors of Couture getting next shot if he beats Vera.........he's randy so its probably true Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
d0ublestr0ker0ll Posted October 25, 2009 Share Posted October 25, 2009 (edited) This is a dark day for MMA. I'm willing to bet that this has a lot more to do with the judging process than UFC intervention. It wasn't fixed, Dana White will probably suggest (because that's all they'll allow him to do) that the decision was debatable. The real issue is judging for MMA. It's still caveman-like. Edited October 25, 2009 by d0ublestr0ker0ll Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VTmike Posted October 25, 2009 Share Posted October 25, 2009 I didn't see "vicious kicks" I saw counter kicks mostly to the legs, none of which put Machida in any really danger at all. As for "pushing the action" what you say is stylistic differences. Machida has never "pushed the action" he is by definition a perimeter counter puncher. Shogun is a Muay Tai fighter fighting inside out.Did you at any point in the fight see Machida close to taking any damage that looked like it could stop the fight? I saw Shogun twice HOLD ON to Machida after taking a massive knee... and it was obvious that all he was doing was holding on as we all know how ground game is good and none of those desperation "attempts" did anything but keep him from falling down while he caught his breath. I disagree. Shogun tore up Machida's entire midsection and by the end of the fight you could see who was clearly more affected by the action. Even if it's not Machida's style to push the action, he had opportunities at the end to solidify a decision in his favor. Shogun continued to land kicks and cripple him. And I saw Shogun repeatedly whittle down Machida and show that he is human. I'm not taking away from Machida, but Shogun clearly outperformed him through the duration of the 5 rounds and won the fight. I don't see how you can score a unanimous decision for Machida after watching that. :2cents: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FanboyOf91 Posted October 25, 2009 Share Posted October 25, 2009 So I shut down sopcast, figuring Machida lost, return for some analysis from the ES crowd and... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VTmike Posted October 25, 2009 Share Posted October 25, 2009 That's true. I just think that quickness was gone in round 4 and 5. It was time to run at him.... and no one fights that style better than Rua. He had him, I was even telling my friends, if Rua goes after him Machida is going to sleep. Never did though. I think you are right, he had a game plan and stuck to it too much. But didn't you see when Rua tried to run after Machida he was waiting for him. I think that's what he wanted the whole fight was for Rua to come out chasing and then he could unload on him. Even in those 4th and 5th rounds Machida could have turned it decisively in his favor if Rua became too confident and allowed Machida to catch him off guard. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Destino Posted October 25, 2009 Share Posted October 25, 2009 If anything it should be noted that in defeat Rua proved that he is the more improved fighter. The style he displayed today is how you beat champions... his reckless fighting in the past is a great way to beat fighters that are over rated or simply bad... but the better fighters will exploit it. Machida took a step back, which I expected after seeing in the fight countdown he couldn't even train in his gym because of interruptions. While I see what those of you scoring on points (a system I don't follow) are saying Machida landed the only shots that had a chance of ending the fight in rounds 1-3 and stuffed take down attempts easily. I don't think kicks designed to slow a fighter, as opposed to finishing a fighter, are enough to knock off a champion unless you completely dominate a fight (which certainly wasn't the case). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Destino Posted October 25, 2009 Share Posted October 25, 2009 But didn't you see when Rua tried to run after Machida he was waiting for him. I think that's what he wanted the whole fight was for Rua to come out chasing and then he could unload on him. Even in those 4th and 5th rounds Machida could have turned it decisively in his favor if Rua became too confident and allowed Machida to catch him off guard. In the final rounds the only punches Rua landed to the head came when he went after Machida. From a purely physical stand point Machida didn't have the legs to plant and counter punch with any strength. He might land a punch but without the support of the lower body I don't think he has finishing power... in that regard he is not Spider Silva (who I think could be hanging upside down and knock out a pro fighter with a jab). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StillUnknown Posted October 25, 2009 Share Posted October 25, 2009 a crowd that started out as pro-machida ended up boo'ng the decision, that says alot Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Destino Posted October 25, 2009 Share Posted October 25, 2009 a crowd that started out as pro-machidaended up boo'ng the decision, that says alot It says most people score fights like Tae Kwan Do matches. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
#98QBKiller Posted October 25, 2009 Share Posted October 25, 2009 Wow..seriously? That is the worst decision I've ever seen in MMA. Worse than Bisping/Hamill, worse than Bas Rutten/Kevin Randleman, that was a load of ****. Dana White's chubby ass should be embarrassed and disgraced after a showing like that, especially in a big market like Los Angeles. My friend and I were joking at the beginning when they announced that Cecil Peoples was a judge and when Bruce Buffer called out Machida's name at the end we both just looked at each other and started laughing. What a crock of ****. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
d0ublestr0ker0ll Posted October 25, 2009 Share Posted October 25, 2009 (edited) Machida hit gloves all night. After Machida landed his shots to the body he got countered with shots that had more snap. Shogun won the clinch battles, Shogun won the countering battles, Shogun was easily more engaging, Machida was bouncing off the cage after exchanges. Shogun landed more shots to the head, Shogun controlled the center of the octagon. As a Machida fan, I scored it 50-45...you have to almost be related to him to see how that fight goes to Machida. If Gloves are a part of the face, perhaps Machida won. Edited October 25, 2009 by d0ublestr0ker0ll Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lovetoaster Posted October 25, 2009 Share Posted October 25, 2009 Bisping-Hamill was awful, and this was worse IMO. This involved the most high-profile belt in the sport. The worst that this fight could have been was 48-47 Machida, in my opinion. I like both guys, but I really do not see any conceivable way Lyoto won that fight. I almost expected a split decision for Rua for some goofy reason, but when they announced a unanimous decision for Machida, I was shocked. As was everyone I watched it with, and all of them are huge Machida fans. Machida hardly did any damage to Rua. Rua did not do a whole lot, but he did a lot more than Lyoto did. I understand that you have to beat the champ, but the champ was essentially neutralized. And yet he remained the champ. We may as well let him keep the belt for a few years, because at this point, I do not know if anyone is going to have a better shot than tonight. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
#98QBKiller Posted October 25, 2009 Share Posted October 25, 2009 I understand that you have to beat the champ, but the champ was essentially neutralized. And yet he remained the champ. We may as well let him keep the belt for a few years, because at this point, I do not know if anyone is going to have a better shot than tonight. You don't have to "beat the champ" like in boxing. Winning a round, no matter how narrow of a win that round is, counts as a win, and that's something I like about MMA. I've never believed that you have to beat the champion in an exotic way to win the belt, if you KO/Sub him or just straight outpoint him, a win is a win. And not only did Shogun outpoint Machida for at least 3 rounds (I'd argue four) but the judges somehow came to a unanimous decision on a fight that would've been a robbery if the champ had gotten even a split decision. I expect a full investigation from the CSAC. you have to almost be related to him to see how that fight goes to Machida. Yeah, unless Machida's dad was out there judging, I don't see how he won. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lovetoaster Posted October 25, 2009 Share Posted October 25, 2009 You don't have to "beat the champ" like in boxing. Winning a round, no matter how narrow of a win that round is, counts as a win, and that's something I like about MMA. You are right, I do not even agree with what I said. I guess I should have said "I know a lot of people say that you have to beat the champ." That does not necessarily make it right. And not only did Shogun outpoint Machida for at least 3 rounds (I'd argue four) but the judges somehow came to a unanimous decision on a fight that would've been a robbery if the champ had gotten even a split decision. I expect a full investigation from the CSAC. I thought four, but I could see three. To me, that was the worst-case scenario. I guess I was wrong. I would not necessarily expect an investigation. I just do not see there being enough of an outrage where it matters...and I will never try and predict the actions of the CSAC. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
#98QBKiller Posted October 25, 2009 Share Posted October 25, 2009 I thought four, but I could see three. To me, that was the worst-case scenario. I guess I was wrong. I would not necessarily expect an investigation. I just do not see there being enough of an outrage where it matters...and I will never try and predict the actions of the CSAC. Amen to that, all of the state athletic commissions are unpredictable...and I definitely agree about the four part. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Create an account or sign in to comment
You need to be a member in order to leave a comment
Create an account
Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!
Register a new accountSign in
Already have an account? Sign in here.
Sign In Now