Dr. Do Itch Big Posted August 4, 2015 Share Posted August 4, 2015 I can't tell if you are serious, what is a 3rd degree mma black belt? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
d0ublestr0ker0ll Posted August 4, 2015 Share Posted August 4, 2015 (edited) A 3rd degree MMA blackbelt? Do you mean in a particular discipline? Edited August 4, 2015 by d0ublestr0ker0ll Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vilandil Tasardur Posted August 4, 2015 Share Posted August 4, 2015 I can't tell if you are serious, what is a 3rd degree mma black belt? A 3rd degree MMA blackbelt? Do you mean in a particular discipline? Yeah, sorry. I'm used to telling people it's MMA, but it isn't. It's a mix, or a hybrid style, founded by some dude in the service who sampled a bunch of different styles while stationed in Vietnam. He called it Tai Chuan Do, which is a pretty terrible name since it's a Chinese name despite a much heavier Japanese and Okinawan influence. At any rate, you guys are rate. Not really MMA. It's more akin to Shotakan with some Korean (Tang Su Do) style flavoring. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DaGoonie55 Posted August 4, 2015 Share Posted August 4, 2015 Yeah, sorry. I'm used to telling people it's MMA, but it isn't. It's a mix, or a hybrid style, founded by some dude in the service who sampled a bunch of different styles while stationed in Vietnam. He called it Tai Chuan Do, which is a pretty terrible name since it's a Chinese name despite a much heavier Japanese and Okinawan influence. At any rate, you guys are rate. Not really MMA. It's more akin to Shotakan with some Korean (Tang Su Do) style flavoring. Good save. I could hear the wolves circling in for the kill LOL. Shotakan......Sempai would beat me to death almost every day when I was 9. Good stuff. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StillUnknown Posted August 4, 2015 Share Posted August 4, 2015 I can appreciate that. I'm an unusual "new" fan. I'm a 3rd degree MMA blackbelt, who just never followed the fight scene before Ronda. I don't know who the hell anyone is or if they are any good, but I know a ton about what I'm seeing when I watch. I'm really happy that Ronda and Connor have finally brought me into a sport that I have practiced my whole life but never bothered to follow professionally. its not so much the new fans that bother me, its that particular new fan who thinks they know the sport inside and out after watching Ronda fight for 45 seconds 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
d0ublestr0ker0ll Posted August 4, 2015 Share Posted August 4, 2015 Good save. I could hear the wolves circling in for the kill LOL. Well to be completely honest, just giving my humble opinion, I don't think he should be telling people he's a third degree MMA blackbelt. Not to take away from the hard work he's put in to the art(s) he's done. Specific arts yes, or in this case a hybrid art, but not MMA. If he has a third degree blackbelt in MMA, then Jose Aldo has a radioactive googolplex-degree platinum belt in MMA. It's the specified name for a sport mostly dominated by kickboxing, wrestling and jiu jitsu. If you're really good at all three, you'll be successful, but still not considered a blackbelt at MMA, because that ranking system doesn't exist. You can go ahead and keep telling people that, I'm just giving my advice. Anybody who knows the sport will think the same things I've been explaining though. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DaGoonie55 Posted August 4, 2015 Share Posted August 4, 2015 its not so much the new fans that bother me, its that particular new fan who thinks they know the sport inside and out after watching Ronda fight for 45 seconds Hell the damn judges don't know what they're looking at half the time. It's a complex sport, one that I can hold my own in because I've been watching and training in since 93 (UFC 1). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vilandil Tasardur Posted August 4, 2015 Share Posted August 4, 2015 Well to be completely honest, just giving my humble opinion, I don't think he should be telling people he's a third degree MMA blackbelt. Not to take away from the hard work he's put in to the art(s) he's done. Specific arts yes, or in this case a hybrid art, but not MMA. If he has a third degree blackbelt in MMA, then Jose Aldo has a radioactive googolplex-degree platinum belt in MMA. It's the specified name for a sport mostly dominated by kickboxing, wrestling and jiu jitsu. If you're really good at all three, you'll be successful, but still not considered a blackbelt at MMA, because that ranking system doesn't exist. You can go ahead and keep telling people that, I'm just giving my advice. Anybody who knows the sport will think the same things I've been explaining though. You're definitely right about that, that one's definitely my bad. It's kind of an interesting example of what I was talking about. Whenever people asked me what style I practiced, unless they knew a little about martial arts, I would just say it "is a mixed martial art", because in my eyes, it is. It's a blended mix of a bunch of "stuff". I didn't realize MMA didn't have the belt rankings in the same fashion. I didn't really realize that what I was saying makes no sense. It's ben a treat to start learning more about the sport; actually, more about all of the arts in general. I started practicing Shorin-Ryu several months ago, and have really been amazing at how different some things can be but how consistent the fundamentals are. Question for you MMA experts: I know that historically it was dominated by the Gracies and, as you mention, it largely a boxing, kickboxing, and jiu-jitsu art. Is there a reason karate isn't big in MMA? Did people try and get their ass kicked? Or is it just not really an interest for most practitioners? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StillUnknown Posted August 4, 2015 Share Posted August 4, 2015 Question for you MMA experts: I know that historically it was dominated by the Gracies and, as you mention, it largely a boxing, kickboxing, and jiu-jitsu art. Is there a reason karate isn't big in MMA? Did people try and get their ass kicked? Or is it just not really an interest for most practitioners? Most of the karate fighters I remember had a ****ty takedown defense and often ended up on their backs with no place to go. Karate's point based style also presents a problem once the distance is closed or they are pinned against the fence. The most successful was Lyoto Machida, but since Shogun Rua solved the riddle, other fighters have had an easier time figuring out his game. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vilandil Tasardur Posted August 4, 2015 Share Posted August 4, 2015 Most of the karate fighters I remember had a ****ty takedown defense and often ended up on their backs with no place to go. Karate's point based style also presents a problem once the distance is closed or they are pinned against the fence. The most successful was Lyoto Machida, but since Shogun Rua solved the riddle, other fighters have had an easier time figuring out his game. That about makes sense. Karate fighters can be incredibly immobile. I find myself always battling with my students not to fight like they're in mortal kombat, to use all three dimensions. We drill it a lot, but it's a losing battle unless you start incorporating more kick boxing style stances. The sideways, hip out karate stance doesn't lend itself to lateral movement. Of course, I always have the problem that every year fewer and fewer kids no what the hell mortal kombat is... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NoCalMike Posted August 4, 2015 Share Posted August 4, 2015 Also, with a lot of Karate based fighters, it is based on leveraging everything into countering with one big strike, so if they miss they leave themselves vulnerable. You see that a lot with Machida, he is great at avoiding taking strikes, but as soon as someone does land a strike on him it's like his entire ring generalship fades away. You don't need to be a master at every discipline to be successful in MMA, but you do need to have at least enough skill to defend yourself against multiple other styles. A big reason BJJ took a dive for awhile is because wrestlers were able to learn just enough defense that if they ended up on top of a BJJ guy, they could ground & pound these guys who are not traditionally used to dealing with being hit. The evolution of the sport never stops. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PleaseBlitz Posted August 4, 2015 Share Posted August 4, 2015 (edited) Question for you MMA experts: I know that historically it was dominated by the Gracies and, as you mention, it largely a boxing, kickboxing, and jiu-jitsu art. Is there a reason karate isn't big in MMA? Did people try and get their ass kicked? Or is it just not really an interest for most practitioners? I would say that wrestling is arguably the dominant discipline throughout MMA history. I am biased, i grew up wrestling. But many of the greats of the sports either started as wrestlers, then added something to their arsenal that made them great (Chuck, Bones) or just used their wrestling ability and athleticism to dominate guys (Hughes, Hendo, Randy, Dan Severn (for the old school fans)). Edited August 4, 2015 by PleaseBlitz Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
d0ublestr0ker0ll Posted August 4, 2015 Share Posted August 4, 2015 Question for you MMA experts: I know that historically it was dominated by the Gracies and, as you mention, it largely a boxing, kickboxing, and jiu-jitsu art. Is there a reason karate isn't big in MMA? Did people try and get their ass kicked? Or is it just not really an interest for most practitioners? Lyoto Machida is the quintessential karate stylist in MMA history. He became champion of the most star studden division of the time. Of course, he had very good takedown defense, was well versed at BJJ (Brazilian jiu jitsu), and his karate was infused with kickboxing. His straight power punch was right out of the karate dojo though, he knocked several people out cold with it. Very elusive on the feet. Karate is a lot less effective than something like muay thai kickboxing, where you're more in the pocket, focused on beating the living piss out of your opponent in every way imaginable that doesn't include groin strikes or headbutts. You're waling away, putting together combos, elbowing, kneeing in the face and to the body. All allowed from a clinch position too. Some knockouts in muay thai come from a position where you have a grip around your opponent's head and knee them in the face. Accumulative damage to someone's leg or body is often a means of winning. Where you kick their thigh so much the person wilts. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vilandil Tasardur Posted August 4, 2015 Share Posted August 4, 2015 Thanks for the feedback guys; this is great. It seems to me that, because of the ability to pound a guy until he's out, it's much less about being able to take a hit and much more about being able to minimize how many you take. In boxing, you know you're going to get hit a lot (unless you Mayweather), and you try to be tough enough to take more than the other guy. In the cages though, taking even a single hit can stun you long enough to take 5 more, and going down doesn't buy you ten seconds to recover. Seems to me like, if you're not going to knock the guy out, you better close the distance and make sure you can tuck your head somewhere safe while you work them down. I can see why wrestlers would dominate. They have the physique to take a shot or two on the way in if they need to, they can get you to the ground, and they can pound you once you're down there. And they can likely defend well enough to avoid being submitted. Very cool! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dr. Do Itch Big Posted August 4, 2015 Share Posted August 4, 2015 Wrestling is the most dominant discipline because it can dictate where the fight occurs but also because I feel the judging criteria favors wrestling. In BJJ guard is a neutral position, in MMA it is not. So, if a wrestler stays in the guard for the whole round without doing anything, they usually win the round even the guy in the bottom is attacking and inflicting greater damage. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
d0ublestr0ker0ll Posted August 4, 2015 Share Posted August 4, 2015 Thanks for the feedback guys; this is great. It seems to me that, because of the ability to pound a guy until he's out, it's much less about being able to take a hit and much more about being able to minimize how many you take. In boxing, you know you're going to get hit a lot (unless you Mayweather), and you try to be tough enough to take more than the other guy. In the cages though, taking even a single hit can stun you long enough to take 5 more, and going down doesn't buy you ten seconds to recover. Seems to me like, if you're not going to knock the guy out, you better close the distance and make sure you can tuck your head somewhere safe while you work them down. I can see why wrestlers would dominate. They have the physique to take a shot or two on the way in if they need to, they can get you to the ground, and they can pound you once you're down there. And they can likely defend well enough to avoid being submitted. Very cool! Like Do Itch said, you can use a wrestling advantage in reverse, where you can prevent a guy from taking you down because you're better than him on the feet. A very famous fighter named Chuck Liddell used that very tactic. He focused on making his takedown defense very high level in order to keep fights standing, where he'd brutalize people with his striking. And if he was taken down, he was well-versed in the aspects of jiu jitsu that help you get back up to your feet. Wrestling isn't universally dominant though. The current heavyweight champion doesn't give a damn about learning how to wrestle. He is a jiu jitsu world champion and has developed very good striking. He doesn't mind where the fight takes place, so take him down or keep it standing, your choice. Two of the top 5 greatest fighters ever were the same way (Anderson Silva and Fedor Emelianenko). They would knock people out on the feet, or submit them while their opponents were lying on top of them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StillUnknown Posted August 4, 2015 Share Posted August 4, 2015 Wrestling is the most dominant discipline because it can dictate where the fight occurs but also because I feel the judging criteria favors wrestling. In BJJ guard is a neutral position, in MMA it is not. So, if a wrestler stays in the guard for the whole round without doing anything, they usually win the round even the guy in the bottom is attacking and inflicting greater damage. You would think as MMA grows, judges & refs knowledge of the ground game would grow as well. There are so many inconsistent stand-ups, even from dominant positions. Yves Lavigne has been an established ref for some time now, and he recently stood a fight up when a fighter had a backmount. Very few fighters even bother playing guard anymore since they know refs are quick on the stand-ups. I can count on my hands the amount of fighters who have an active or dangerous guard. Firas Zahabi has an interesting thought process on guard in today's MMA: http://www.sherdog.com/news/articles/OneonOne-with-Firas-Zahabi-Part-2-77975 Sherdog.com: I noticed that as you were teaching tonight, and it was one of the most striking things I noticed -- the way you were integrating wrestling and jiu-jitsu into a seamless whole. So, for example, working scissor sweeps off a single-leg. Zahabi: We started everything -- [all the rolls] -- standing today. We all started with a single-leg or body lock. Why? Because jiu-jitsu guys wait for the fight to go to the ground before they start attacking. Me, I’ll throw you with a wrestling technique and guillotine you on the way down. I’m not going to wait. That’s the Achilles’ heel of today’s jiu-jitsu, because when they do finally get you to the ground and start fighting, they’re not used to the guy trying to get back up. So you noticed today when I was rolling with one of my guys, I got back up. You’d better be able to hold me down, because when we go to MMA, the guy’s not trying to play guard, not necessarily; he’s trying to pop back up to his feet. It’s a whole different ballgame when a guy’s trying to get back to his feet instead of play guard. Sherdog.com: I noticed that you were repeatedly saying as you were going around, “Sweep, submit or stand up.” Zahabi: It’s what I call the 60-second guard. Sherdog.com: The style of jiu-jitsu that Aldo’s been doing since he was a kid, the Nova Uniao style, is largely focused on top control anyway, so it makes for a seamless blend between the style of wrestling he’s learned -- straightforward things like the hip-out and floating his hips into takedown attempts -- and his jiu-jitsu. Zahabi: He’s not just a grappler -- he can wrestle, too -- but he uses his jiu-jitsu in reverse, where 99 percent of the jiu-jitsu community believes that you don’t do that. You hit the ground and they start pulling you into guard, and then it’s just a punch to the chin, a punch to the chin. Me, if you pull back to punch me in the chin, believe me, I’m getting back up, and then you’re going to have to use your hands to grab me. Now we’re doing jiu-jitsu, because you’re grabbing me and I’m not grabbing you. Now I’ve got the connection that I need from you. Sherdog.com: That kind of development, that move toward “sweep, submit or get back up,” creates its own little meta-game in and of itself. You see guys who are getting better and better at getting to the back in those situations, as a guy is standing back up, which creates a chain reaction of move and countermove. Zahabi: I have black belts who come here who can’t hold down my blue belts. They get them to the ground, and my blue belts pop back up. They know nothing about the breakdown; that’s what we call it in wrestling -- we break you down to the mat. I don’t want to name names, but today I was wrestling a very seasoned guy and I took him down and held him down. This is half the battle; then you can worry about passing the guard, mounting, armbars, the jiu-jitsu part. That’s why I believe that your style of jiu-jitsu should work in any situation. That’s what I tell my students, that our jiu-jitsu is for any situation. Today I was teaching leg locks, telling them that it’s illegal here, it’s illegal there and very good for this type of situation, because I don’t want my jiu-jitsu to only work if you’re wearing a gi or if we’re in an environment where there’s no striking allowed. My martial art is supposed to defend me in any situation: gi, no-gi, slippery, not slippery, fight or no fight, on a wrestling mat. I want it to work everywhere, but the problem is that they train fighters to mold them to the competition particularly. So they’ll say, “This guy is the best in jiu-jitsu.” No, he’s the best at competing under a set of rules. There, he’s the best. Put him on the ground in an MMA fight, and he sucks. His jiu-jitsu sucks; and I’m not naming any particular guys, but he’ll get his ass kicked. His jiu-jitsu’s not the best. It’s a lie. His competitive jiu-jitsu under these particular circumstances is the best -- I would agree to that -- but his jiu-jitsu for fighting? Not so good. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dr. Do Itch Big Posted August 4, 2015 Share Posted August 4, 2015 That's very interesting. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dr. Do Itch Big Posted August 4, 2015 Share Posted August 4, 2015 Anyone have any experience in catch wrestling, I read somewhere that the reason Sakuraba was able to submit so many black belts was because he would make them wrestle with him, but if you made him play guard he would be ineffective. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
d0ublestr0ker0ll Posted August 4, 2015 Share Posted August 4, 2015 Paul Harris stripped of title, suspended indefinitely. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dr. Do Itch Big Posted August 4, 2015 Share Posted August 4, 2015 Good Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
artmonkforHOF Posted August 5, 2015 Share Posted August 5, 2015 Now Sheilds is suspended as well for unsportsmanlike conduct - swinging at Palhares after the tap. You can't make this crap up, only the NSAC can. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Malapropismic Depository Posted August 7, 2015 Share Posted August 7, 2015 OSP over Glover..... via Decision. Nothing else on the card really intrigues me that much, unless I'm missing something. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
d0ublestr0ker0ll Posted August 7, 2015 Share Posted August 7, 2015 McMann vs. Nunes is a fight I'm interested in. Think McMann just needs to get a little more comfortable in there, a little more aggressive. She's got thunder in that right hand. Nunes has been touted for a while and has a lot of experience in MMA and BJJ. Urijah Hall is a guy who has a lot of talent, but seems to hit a mental block in the cage a lot of the time. Always waiting for him to go after it more, I haven't lost hope. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StillUnknown Posted August 8, 2015 Share Posted August 8, 2015 OSP over Glover..... via Decision. Nothing else on the card really intrigues me that much, unless I'm missing something. i'm looking forward to Michael Johnson vs. Beneil Dariush both of those could be title contenders soon. Although Dariush said he'll go to 170 before fighting RDA. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Create an account or sign in to comment
You need to be a member in order to leave a comment
Create an account
Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!
Register a new accountSign in
Already have an account? Sign in here.
Sign In Now