The Figure Four - ALL Things ECW-WWF-NJPW-TNA-ROH-AEW

[Dont Taze Me Bro]

4 hours ago, TK said:

GLOW just hit Netflix. Ten 30 min episodes with some surprising cameos.

 

Wife and I just started watching that today.   It's pretty funny.

[Lombardi's_kid_brother]

On ‎6‎/‎21‎/‎2017 at 10:44 AM, DM72 said:

I find it very hard to believe that Sullivan killed an entire family.

 

You think so, doctor?

 

A while back, Chris Jericho interviewed Nancy's sister on his podcast. It was quite interesting, particularly since Jericho was really close with Benoit. (Though apparently, you could only be so close with Benoit).

 

I think over the years, it's become pretty evident that Benoit was a pretty screwed up guy before he got into wrestling. And then he spent 20 years doing a diving headbutt. I think I read somewhere that all you needed to know about Benoit was that he never stopped admiring The Dynamite Kid. (It's funny because if you lined up all the prominent wrestlers and history and took a bet on which one would murder a spouse and child, Billington would likely have been near the top of everyone's list). 

[DM72]

35 minutes ago, Lombardi's_kid_brother said:

 

You think so, doctor?

 

A while back, Chris Jericho interviewed Nancy's sister on his podcast. It was quite interesting, particularly since Jericho was really close with Benoit. (Though apparently, you could only be so close with Benoit).

 

I think over the years, it's become pretty evident that Benoit was a pretty screwed up guy before he got into wrestling. And then he spent 20 years doing a diving headbutt. I think I read somewhere that all you needed to know about Benoit was that he never stopped admiring The Dynamite Kid. (It's funny because if you lined up all the prominent wrestlers and history and took a bet on which one would murder a spouse and child, Billington would likely have been near the top of everyone's list). 

 

And could you explain to me what exactly does this have to do with Kevin Sullivan?

[Mr. Sinister]

Going back and watching a lot of his matches, it wouldn't shock me if he got a concussion every time he did the diving headbutt

 

I also find myself seriously cringing at a lot of stuff that i didn't bat an eyelash at as an ignorant kid. 

Edited June 26, 2017 by Mr. Sinister

[Sacks 'n' Stuff]

1 hour ago, Mr. Sinister said:

Going back and watching a lot of his matches, it wouldn't shock me if he got a concussion every time he did the diving headbutt

 

I also find myself seriously cringing at a lot of stuff that i didn't bat an eyelash at as an ignorant kid. 

I have quite the opposite reaction watching wrestling nowadays. The lack of steroids and cocaine has really hurt the product.

 

[justice98]

7 hours ago, Mr. Sinister said:

Going back and watching a lot of his matches, it wouldn't shock me if he got a concussion every time he did the diving headbutt

 

I also find myself seriously cringing at a lot of stuff that i didn't bat an eyelash at as an ignorant kid. 

 

And that's just the stuff they're still doing.  Thinking of the things that've been banned (at least in WWE), seems kinda crazy that nobody thought a chairshot to the skull might be a bad idea.

 

A diving headbutt to the shoulder is inherently a stupid move on every level, kayfabe or otherwise.

 

But they just replaced a lot of cringey moves and practices with flippy stuff.  Just doing a high cross body was "high flying" and taking chances when Steamboat was doing it.  Now, you gotta up the degree of risk by doing double twisty rotations, and then up that by doing it out to the floor.  

[Lombardi's_kid_brother]

12 hours ago, DM72 said:

 

And could you explain to me what exactly does this have to do with Kevin Sullivan?

 

The Sullivan thing is just some loony conspiracy theory that literally no one with an IQ over 60 believes.

[DM72]

11 minutes ago, Lombardi's_kid_brother said:

 

The Sullivan thing is just some loony conspiracy theory that literally no one with an IQ over 60 believes.

 

That's what I thought when I read that story. And from seeing interviews with Sullivan, he seemed like a well educated man. Much different from him in-ring personality.

[Lombardi's_kid_brother]

6 minutes ago, DM72 said:

 

That's what I thought when I read that story. And from seeing interviews with Sullivan, he seemed like a well educated man. Much different from him in-ring personality.

 

Sullivan is not educated in any traditional sense, but I think he is incredibly smart. (My understanding is that he was also a bit of an SOB out of the ring too, and it wouldn't have been unheard of him for him to hit Nancy).

 

You can still find the videos on Youtube, but in the aftermath of the murders, Benoit superfans made a bunch of videos with alternative theories. And a lot of them went with Sullivan as the culprit, because he was "a real-life Satanist" or some nonsense.  Dude lived the gimmick.

 

I can't post youtube videos, but look up the video of Sullivan summoning the Purple Haze (Mark Lewin) from the ocean.

 

Also, look up anything involving Nancy in her Fallen Angel role. She was next level **** in 1984/1985.

 

 

[DM72]

I'll have to look that up.

 

Maybe educated was the wrong word. Like you said, he seems smart. From the interview I saw, he just doesn't look like the type to go on a killing rampage.

[Mr. Sinister]

9 hours ago, Sacks 'n' Stuff said:

I have quite the opposite reaction watching wrestling nowadays. The lack of steroids and cocaine has really hurt the product.

 

 

Wrestling back then is what im talking about. One i immediately recall is the I Quit match at the '99 Royal Rumble, and literally seeing Mick Foley's brains get scrambled by what seemed like at least 20 brutal, unblocked chairshots square to his skull. And The Rock was swinging like It was the bottom of the 9th inning. He was willingly being beaten to death.

 

 

Out of all the matches i saw from that era, that one might be the most violent, because he offered no resistance whatsoever.

 

I also recall a match between Vince and the Undertaker, where Vince bladed himself wrong, and was basically bleeding out in the ring.

[Sacks 'n' Stuff]

10 minutes ago, Mr. Sinister said:

Wrestling back then is what im talking about. One i immediately recall is the I Quit match at the '99 Royal Rumble, and literally seeing Mick Foley's brains get scrambled by what seemed like at least 20 brutal, unblocked chairshots square to his skull. And The Rock was swinging like It was the bottom of the 9th inning. He was willingly being beaten to death.

 

Out of all the matches i saw from that era, that one might be the most violent, because he offered no resistance whatsoever.

 

I also recall a match between Vince and the Undertaker, where Vince bladed himself wrong, and was basically bleeding out in the ring.

Yup... the good old days. Need to go back to that type of entertainment. The current brand sucks ass.

 

I'm going to post some more cocaine abetted promos now.

 

Edited June 26, 2017 by Sacks 'n' Stuff

[Lombardi's_kid_brother]

Attitude Era matches were far more dangerous and stupid. Russo played a large part in that - booking **** that he himself would never ever have to do. That style should be gone forever.

 

This modern flippy stuff is crap too.

 

Wrestling should look like a fight. Not a stunt show. Not an acrobatic routine.

[DM72]

Agreed. I was talking to someone the other week. Back in the day, there were a ton of guys you wanted to see live. Today, I don't think there's a wrestler that I want to see live.

 

I would like to see New Japan though.

[justice98]

1 hour ago, Mr. Sinister said:

 

Wrestling back then is what im talking about. One i immediately recall is the I Quit match at the '99 Royal Rumble, and literally seeing Mick Foley's brains get scrambled by what seemed like at least 20 brutal, unblocked chairshots square to his skull. And The Rock was swinging like It was the bottom of the 9th inning. He was willingly being beaten to death.

 

 

Out of all the matches i saw from that era, that one might be the most violent, because he offered no resistance whatsoever.

 

That's the one they showed in Beyond the Mat. Where his family was front row and mortified, flinching at every chairshot until they had to leave.  I think that changed how I looked at Mick Foley seeing how he tried to comfort his kids afterwards.  

 

Rock took it too far in that one.  I dont think that many chairshots was the plan, they just rolled with it.

Edited June 26, 2017 by justice98

[Mr. Sinister]

32 minutes ago, justice98 said:

 

That's the one they showed in Beyond the Mat. Where his family was front row and mortified, flinching at every chairshot until they had to leave.  I think that changed how I looked at Mick Foley seeing how he tried to comfort his kids afterwards.  

 

Rock took it too far in that one.  I dont think that many chairshots was the plan, they just rolled with it.

 

I remember that doc. I didn't understand why she was so emotional when i first saw the clip. Back then i was "Wrestling is fake and I don't care i still love it."

 

Now im like "Wrestling is scripted, visciously unforgiving, and something that will cause you to be dead by 40 if you're not careful."

 

Watching that match, Rocks chairshots were unreal. Just CRACK, CRACK, CRACK. I can't imagine what that would've been like ringside.

 

 

I also can't imagine what one of those Inferno matches would've been like ringside. Seriously, wtf.

[justice98]

21 minutes ago, Mr. Sinister said:

 

I remember that doc. I didn't understand why she was so emotional when i first saw the clip. Back then i was "Wrestling is fake and I don't care i still love it."

 

Now im like "Wrestling is scripted, visciously unforgiving, and something that will cause you to be dead by 40 if you're not careful."

 

Watching that match, Rocks chairshots were unreal. Just CRACK, CRACK, CRACK. I can't imagine what that would've been like ringside.

 

 

I also can't imagine what one of those Inferno matches would've been like ringside. Seriously, wtf.

 

I heard just Kane doing his ringpost pyro was hot.  An inferno match must have been unpleasant.  

[Lombardi's_kid_brother]

49 minutes ago, Mr. Sinister said:

 

I remember that doc. I didn't understand why she was so emotional when i first saw the clip. Back then i was "Wrestling is fake and I don't care i still love it."

 

Now im like "Wrestling is scripted, visciously unforgiving, and something that will cause you to be dead by 40 if you're not careful."

 

Watching that match, Rocks chairshots were unreal. Just CRACK, CRACK, CRACK. I can't imagine what that would've been like ringside.

 

 

I also can't imagine what one of those Inferno matches would've been like ringside. Seriously, wtf.

 

Bruce Prichard discussed that match on his podcast. Apparently, they had a set number of chairshots, but Foley got concussed immediately and lost the script. The way he was moving towards the Rock made Rock think he was feeding him so he just kept walloping him. Basically, Rock was reading the body language as "Hit me again, you pansy" and was legit getting annoyed.

 

Rock is a 50th generation wrestler and should know better. But eventually, when it's always Mick Foley in these types of situations, you have to start thinking the blame lies with Mick Foley. People forget, because WCW was awful and had no idea how to build on the sympathy he was getting, but Mick started a lot of this brutal nonsense by taking that powerbomb from Vader on the concrete. Foley agreed to that.

 

Everyone blames Vader for Foley losing his ear, but that happened because Foley put himself in a spot where his freaking head was trapped in the ropes.

 

It was Foley who had that insane match with the Sandman, where Sandman got concussed and kept kicking out because he didn't know what the hell he was doing. (Granted, Sandman was probably drunk, on acid, and on Special K during that much as well. Jesus....ECW).

 

I just think it's important to note that it's always Mick experiencing this stuff.

 

Anyway, Cornette as usual has the right lines to discuss this. In the 90s and early 00s, you had to hit someone twice as hard to get half the reaction. I was on wrestling message boards back then and remember arguing with some real ECW mutants that we were on an unsustainable path. ECW raised the danger to an insane degree 

 

Does anyone remember Foley and Funk nearly burning the damn arena down? If that had gone in a slightly different direction, there is probably no longer a wrestling industry. It would have been Benoit times 1000.

 

 

Edited June 26, 2017 by Lombardi's_kid_brother

[Mr. Sinister]

I think that along the way, he probably realized that was his only way to truly getting over.

 

I mean lets face it, it worked. He basically revitalized Takers career, and the WWE itself, starting with that Boiler Room match.

 

He couldn't wrestle for ****, but you just knew that whatever version of Foley was on the card that night, you had a chance to see something historic.

[justice98]

• I remember when Dean Ambrose was in NXT, they were trying to get an angle going with him and Mick Foley about the damage Foley's style of wrestling did to the business and how it negatively influenced a generation of wrestlers.  Ambrose would walk up on Foley in a hotel and start giving him crap. I remember thinking it was a shoot at first cuz I had no idea who Ambrose was at the time or that he was in WWE. 

 

They just kinda dropped it as I recall and it never went anywhere.

Edited June 26, 2017 by justice98

[Lombardi's_kid_brother]

That's basically a modern rift on Foley's "I'm Hardcore! I'm Hardcore" angle with Tommy Dreamer in ECW. I actually think that's the best single angle ECW ever had.

[justice98]

Titus doing the Lavar Ball bit in WWE is better than Lavar doing it in WWE.

[Dont Taze Me Bro]

So, they finally broke up Enzo and Big Cass.  Not sure why they didn't give them at least one tag team title reign.  But it will be cool to see if Big Cass can hold his own solo and move up through the ranks.  I don't see him holding the Universal Championship, but could be fun putting him over with the Intercontinental title.  

 

I could see him on Smackdown eventually holding the US Championship and/or competing for the WWE Championship when they do another mix up again.

 

Wonder what is going to happen to Enzo though?  Phased out?  Will just show up for a while and screw Cass out of winning matches?  Hopefully they won't match them against each other in a PPV, I think that would be silly.

Edited June 27, 2017 by Dont Taze Me Bro

[TK]

7 minutes ago, Dont Taze Me Bro said:

Wonder what is going to happen to Enzo though?  Phased out?  Will just show up for a while and screw Cass out of winning matches?  Hopefully they won't match them against each other in a PPV, I think that would be silly.

They could dump him onto 205 Live or maybe repackage him. He'd be perfect as a manager with Carmella if they hadn't already stuck her with Ellsworth. Maybe possibly repackage him as a manager or stable leader with the right guys to work with.?

40 minutes ago, justice98 said:

Titus doing the Lavar Ball bit in WWE is better than Lavar doing it in WWE.

The Ball segment was getting KILLED on the Taz Show this morning.

 

Someone had said they'd rather rewatch the Bailey/Bliss This is your life segment again instead of that mess.

[Dont Taze Me Bro]

22 minutes ago, TK said:

They could dump him onto 205 Live or maybe repackage him. He'd be perfect as a manager with Carmella if they hadn't already stuck her with Ellsworth. Maybe possibly repackage him as a manager or stable leader with the right guys to work with.?

 

He would have been great with Carmella.  I don't see him fitting in with the cruiser weights at all.  Maybe they will toss him and Cass in a match on Raw and Cass will destroy him and he will disappear and come back rebranded.