dfitzo53 Posted February 7, 2006 Share Posted February 7, 2006 Some people just don't like and can't bear to hear other opinions that differ with their own. Instead of respecting and agreeing to disagree they lower themselves and the tailgate to a nonsensical level that is harmful to all. Soluition just ban the repeat offenders And the communists! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hokie4redskins Posted February 7, 2006 Share Posted February 7, 2006 Wow... just wow. First off, if you're going to accuse me of something like dodging an issue, you better be ready to back it up. Because I sure am ready to rebut it. I first responded to your post 3 minutes after you posted it. It wasn't very specific, just a basic rebuttal of what you said. 18 minutes after my first rebuttal, you posted that you wanted something more specific. 5 minutes later, I provided that. You still didn't understand, which you made clear 14 minutes later. 5 minutes after that, I broke it down detail by detail. 27 minutes later you still claimed that I didn't offer any rebuttal. 2 minutes later I directly quoted the very same rebuttal you apparently didn't see. 9 minutes later, you apparently STILL couldn't read it. 4 minutes after that, I provided the same information, verbatim, for the third time. 46 minutes later you finally took it upon yourself to read the rebuttal that had so kindly been provided to you THREE TIMES. Now, I ask you, was I really the one that was delinquint in answering? Sure, your response to my analysis was posted somewhere in the realm of two hours later, but it's fairly clear that if anyone was slow to respond, it was most definitely you. Please, hokie, the numbers don't lie, but if you are in fact the literate, somewhat intelligent human being you so claim to be, then you obviously do. Second of all, I'm not going to explain to you what socialism is, what communism is, and how they are related. You obviously don't know what they are, and as such, you have no place making this argument. Your evidence is laughable at best. Just because something is affiliated with something else doesn't mean that it is fact that thing. Also, do you think there could be a reason why the Socialist Party and Communist Party have different websites? Could it be because they are separate entities? Anyone with rudimentary political knowledge will tell you that socialism and communism are not the same thing. On top of all of this, while you sit here and accuse me of not responding, you yourself fail to respond to anything anyone is saying. Let's just forget the fact that you have no idea what you're talking about when it comes to communism in relation to socialism. Let's just assume we agree, and we're both right. I mean, it's obvious that you're wrong, and there's no way I'd ever agree with such a poorly formed and dubiously supported opinion, but that's completely aside from the point. You haven't answered a single question anyone has asked, and you haven't responded to a single rebuttal anyone's posed. Do you deny that the majority of the points you've posted have nothing to do with socialism? If so, why? Do you deny that someone who is a liberal doesn't have to agree with all of those points? If so, why? Do you deny that just because someone is a liberal it doesn't mean they are a socialist or communist? If so, why? Does someone being a socialist, communist, or Democrat disqualify them from the same posting privelages that you have? If so, why? In regard to that last question, given your initial post in this thread, your answer should be yes. And if that is indeed your answer, you're going to have quite a bit of explaining to do, because that's certainly a hefty claim on your part. Your views have been called out. Now it's time to back them up like a man or run away and ignore this post like a child. The ball's in your court. I really hope that you respond, because I'd like to have some semblance of an idea as to what's going on in your head. And please, come back with something besides "you're stoned, socialism is communism, liberals are communists, communists suck, liberals suck." Please. I beg you. Because I'm getting dumber by the minute listening to you prattle on with this meaningless, unsubstantiated nonsense. Wow, that must've taken you a long time to go back through the minutes of the entire thread, but if you want to get technical, it took you 4 posts in 45 minutes to "answer" my question. I use that term loosely. But don't get your panties in a wad. I really don't care about the timing of your responses as much as you do apparently. I suppose we could bicker back and forth regarding the intricacies and nuances of socialism and communism. But if you can't see these ideologies which have been failing throughout the world since the Marxist revolution are not built on the same foundation, then.....well, I'm completely wasting my time here with you, aren't I? It's like saying your right hand and your left hand are different. While technically true, it's all part of the same monster, same duties, same actions, same roots, same consequences. What did the USSR stand for again? The Soviets used the euphemism of "socialism" in their own friggin' name. Whether it squawks like a communist, whines like a communist, or protests like a communist, it's still a communist. Bottom line, the democratic party in this country adheres to too many similar stances for it to be a sheer coincidence, starting with the ones I listed earlier on. I'm sure many of your comrades on this board would agree with my assertion and proudly state "Damn right we're like communists." A lot of ragin' dems I've come across are so disenchanted with capitalism and globalism, they yearn for equal economic suppression for all in a classless society. Look a tad deeper and analyze the basics of the democratic party's platform, and use whatever is left of your powers of deduction. Are you not a commie? Well, as Brian Mitchell once said, "Whoopdedamndo." But there's a reality to face. The angry democrats of the party today led by their wacked out Chairman paint a different picture and it's one you cannot refute no matter how hard you try. I read the rest of your drivel and to respond to that nonsense would take me a year. But boy, for someone as ill-informed as me, you sure go to great strides to counter me, dontcha? I usually just laugh off meaningless posts, which is what I'm doing with the rest of your pathetic attempt at a doctoral dissertation. And relax Vladimir, I was only joking when I mentioned banning the resident communists on this board. But like my argument, it must've gone completely over your head as you apprently thought I was serious. Chill. I thought you were good at that. No need to get so angry. With that, this thread is closed to me. :cool: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HOF44 Posted February 7, 2006 Share Posted February 7, 2006 In reading the posts above highlighting the polarization of america I find Hokie's entrenched, I'm right point of view, a problem that is hampering our country in general at this point in time. Even if you believe with all your heart your right, alot of people disagree with you. All the condescention from both sides is hampering the ability of our country to fulfill its fullest promise. I wish there was a viable third party. To tell you the truth I don't care much for either party. They are both doing a diservice to the USA by demonizing opposing views. I see the left claiming Bush is abusing powers by wiretapping and survellance. It makes me uneasy but I try to put myself in the Presidents position and can understand where he's coming from and what he is facing. The right claims the left is unpatriotic because they question the war in Iraq. Instead why doesn't the right engage in a dialogue about why the top Dem leaders are feeling this way? The reason is they can't because they are both so intent on keeping or getting power they use spin to demonize the opposing view with no regard to the effect on the well being of the country. In this spin process it ropes in alot of regular US citizens on both sides to help spew each parties vitriol. Each side firmly believing the others to be idiotic. I just hope there is a movement of reason from the middle to help this country out of these devisive times. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zoony Posted February 7, 2006 Share Posted February 7, 2006 :rotflmao: :rotflmao: All you can do is laugh :doh: :doh: I can't believe there is a political war going on in this thread Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Henry Posted February 7, 2006 Share Posted February 7, 2006 There are a handful of posters who routinely turn up in "reported posts" to the staff, cross lines, instigate, etc., and who are in the middle of practically every thread/debate that turns ugly and requires staff intervention. Some of them know who they are. Others, apparently, do not. We, you can be sure, DO. When things reach critical mass, as they have in the past, and as they appear to maybe be doing again now, we step in. And when we do, it's not Tailgate that goes away. If you catch my drift. Simple as that. I think this bears repeating right about now. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chopper Dave Posted February 7, 2006 Share Posted February 7, 2006 Wow, that must've taken you a long time to go back through the minutes of the entire thread, but if you want to get technical, it took you 4 posts in 45 minutes to "answer" my question. I use that term loosely. But don't get your panties in a wad. I really don't care about the timing of your responses as much as you do apparently. I suppose we could bicker back and forth regarding the intricacies and nuances of socialism and communism. But if you can't see these ideologies which have been failing throughout the world since the Marxist revolution are not built on the same foundation, then.....well, I'm completely wasting my time here with you, aren't I? It's like saying your right hand and your left hand are different. While technically true, it's all part of the same monster, same duties, same actions, same roots, same consequences. What did the USSR stand for again? The Soviets used the euphemism of "socialism" in their own friggin' name. Whether it squawks like a communist, whines like a communist, or protests like a communist, it's still a communist. Bottom line, the democratic party in this country adheres to too many similar stances for it to be a sheer coincidence, starting with the ones I listed earlier on. I'm sure many of your comrades on this board would agree with my assertion and proudly state "Damn right we're like communists." A lot of ragin' dems I've come across are so disenchanted with capitalism and globalism, they yearn for equal economic suppression for all in a classless society. Look a tad deeper and analyze the basics of the democratic party's platform, and use whatever is left of your powers of deduction. Are you not a commie? Well, as Brian Mitchell once said, "Whoopdedamndo." But there's a reality to face. The angry democrats of the party today led by their wacked out Chairman paint a different picture and it's one you cannot refute no matter how hard you try. I read the rest of your drivel and to respond to that nonsense would take me a year. But boy, for someone as ill-informed as me, you sure go to great strides to counter me, dontcha? I usually just laugh off meaningless posts, which is what I'm doing with the rest of your pathetic attempt at a doctoral dissertation. And relax Vladimir, I was only joking when I mentioned banning the resident communists on this board. But like my argument, it must've gone completely over your head as you apprently thought I was serious. Chill. I thought you were good at that. No need to get so angry. With that, this thread is closed to me. :cool: I kinda expected you to answer my reasoned, thought-out post by spewing more rhetoric, throwing around more meaningless pejorative adjectives and baseless accusations that you don't understand, and bowing out without so much as answering for a word you said. Typical. You know what would make the Tailgate better? Accountability. If you make a claim, you back it up. If you don't, you face consequences. It'd sure shut up alot of the idiots around here who cause ruckus then just dip out and pretend that they're innocent. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Destino Posted February 7, 2006 Share Posted February 7, 2006 The Question: How soon will this thread be closed? The Answer: Not soon enough obviously. lol Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dfitzo53 Posted February 7, 2006 Share Posted February 7, 2006 The Question: How soon will this thread be closed?The Answer: Not soon enough obviously. lol :laugh: That's why I bowed out of the little political squabble. It went past the point where I was willing to call it intelligent discussion anymore. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
england Posted February 7, 2006 Share Posted February 7, 2006 well for me it is an opportunity to communicate with others who like me are REDSKINS FANS:cheers: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Om Posted February 7, 2006 Share Posted February 7, 2006 Man, don't you guys ever get tired of having the same exact debate over and over and over again? Don't answer that ... we already know. Can I ask a real question? Has anyone ever seen, in the 6 years ES has been around, a poster with strong right or left political leanings change his/her position on something to any measurable degree, or even cede, "hey, I don't agree, but I can see your point?" I'm sure it's happened at least once. I've just never actually seen it. Or has anyone here ever seen a Believer renounce his faith in the face of the withering logical constructs of an agnostic or atheistic non-believing poster? Or seen such a non-believing poster suddenly exclaim, "Hallelujah!," fall to his/her knees in response to the inspired teachings and preachings of a true believer? Yes. These are rhetorical questions. One wonders if anyone will understand why I asked them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zoony Posted February 7, 2006 Share Posted February 7, 2006 Can I ask a real question? . Very good points Om, I agree strongly For what it's worth, however, I have learned quite a bit in my time on these boards. So while the answers to your questions might not be yes, yes, and yes... I do think I've learned a lot and I certainly become exposed to viewpoints I wouldn't normally be exposed to. What really wears on me is the constant back and forth between the same people, every time. Over and over and over again. I have the same question you do... don't they ever get sick and tired of it? Are they learning anything? I LOVE a good political debate as much as the next guy, but most of the political threads are flat out ridiculous. I'm not trying to get on a high-horse here... far from it. I just don't get it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Heidenreich Posted February 7, 2006 Share Posted February 7, 2006 I think Tailgate's days are numbered. IMO.With nothing better to do for 30 minutes one day I followed a Moderators posts by search. Every post seemed to have this negative angle toward the discussion at hand in tailgate. Right or wrong, debate is why I come to this site. I may not be the best at words but this is why I spend the quantity of time here. I may offend some and cross the line on occassion as do others. But that is going to happen. Should tailgate go, I would surely go. :doh: The tailgate can't go. We're only a month away from baseball season, and I need my psizzle "Mike Mussina can go to hell" thread fix..... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
portisizzle Posted February 7, 2006 Share Posted February 7, 2006 Man, don't you guys ever get tired of having the same exact debate over and over and over again? Don't answer that ... we already know.Can I ask a real question? Has anyone ever seen, in the 6 years ES has been around, a poster with strong right or left political leanings change his/her position on something to any measurable degree, or even cede, "hey, I don't agree, but I can see your point?" I'm sure it's happened at least once. I've just never actually seen it. Or has anyone here ever seen a Believer renounce his faith in the face of the withering logical constructs of an agnostic or atheistic non-believing poster? Or seen such a non-believing poster suddenly exclaim, "Hallelujah!," fall to his/her knees in response to the inspired teachings and preachings of a true believer? Yes. These are rhetorical questions. One wonders if anyone will understand why I asked them. Debate has less to do with changing someone elses opinion and more to do with challenging and confirming (or rejecting) your own opinions. Kinda like testing Theories...... I ask you, why did you go on the Sports Journalists site. To change someone elses mind on that site? OR Challenge and confirm (or reject) your own opinions that mattered to you at the time? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
portisizzle Posted February 7, 2006 Share Posted February 7, 2006 The tailgate can't go. We're only a month away from baseball season, and I need my psizzle "Mike Mussina can go to hell" thread fix..... :munchout: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CrypticVillain Posted February 7, 2006 Share Posted February 7, 2006 The tailgate can't go. We're only a month away from baseball season, and I need my psizzle "Mike Mussina can go to hell" thread fix..... Man that thread sounds interesting but you should call it this, Any Orioles pitcher could go to hell, becasue I F*** with the Nats Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zoony Posted February 7, 2006 Share Posted February 7, 2006 I ask you, why did you go on the Sports Journalists site. To change someone elses mind on that site? OR Challenge and confirm (or reject) your own opinions that mattered to you at the time? I don't think Om went... it was Art, Blade, Andyman, and chants But that is a good point. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tarhog Posted February 8, 2006 Share Posted February 8, 2006 You know, when we referenced the possibility of thinning the Tailgate pack, we didn't really expect you guys to raise your hands and identify yourselves. But thanks Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cdowwe Posted February 8, 2006 Author Share Posted February 8, 2006 This is funny. I never started this thread for asking if Tailgate would be closed. I just had noticed 3 threads had been closed in a day, so I started this as a joke. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TK Posted February 8, 2006 Share Posted February 8, 2006 When they raised their hands, I thought they were volunteering for target practice. I need to sight in my BlasTech E-11 Blaster Rifle. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dfitzo53 Posted February 8, 2006 Share Posted February 8, 2006 Has anyone ever seen, in the 6 years ES has been around, a poster with strong right or left political leanings change his/her position on something to any measurable degree, or even cede, "hey, I don't agree, but I can see your point?" [/Quote] The former no, the latter yes. Or has anyone here ever seen a Believer renounce his faith in the face of the withering logical constructs of an agnostic or atheistic non-believing poster? Or seen such a non-believing poster suddenly exclaim, "Hallelujah!," fall to his/her knees in response to the inspired teachings and preachings of a true believer? [/Quote] No, but is that really the point? As long as the discussions stay civil I enjoy hearing about all different types of worldviews. Om, I'm smart enough at 21 to know there's a lot I don't know, and once in a while those metaphysical threads give me a piece of the puzzle. And yes, I know they were rhetorical questions. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Om Posted February 8, 2006 Share Posted February 8, 2006 Debate has less to do with changing someone elses opinion and more to do with challenging and confirming (or rejecting) your own opinions.Kinda like testing Theories...... I ask you, why did you go on the Sports Journalists site. To change someone elses mind on that site? OR Challenge and confirm (or reject) your own opinions that mattered to you at the time? You're missing the point. I went to that site once, said my piece, learned a couple things, and apparently helped a few people there see some things in a way they hadn't before. Then I left. See the difference? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cdowwe Posted February 8, 2006 Author Share Posted February 8, 2006 I must say I am honored to of started a thread with many Mods posting in it...even if its not an intellectual thread Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Om Posted February 8, 2006 Share Posted February 8, 2006 The former no, the latter yes.No, but is that really the point? As long as the discussions stay civil I enjoy hearing about all different types of worldviews. Om, I'm smart enough at 21 to know there's a lot I don't know, and once in a while those metaphysical threads give me a piece of the puzzle. And yes, I know they were rhetorical questions. If you know my approach around here at all, my friend, you know I LOVE a good debate, between parties who understand the difference between discourse and dogmatism. I too pick up new ways of seeing issues by reading along. There are some damn smart and articulate people on this board. What I'm talking about is not that, it's the issue that's once again BECOMING an issue for the Staff, which is the same endless posturing and repetition of the same entrenched, inflexible dogmatic positions of a handful of posters who cannot seem to resist engaging in the same competing soapbox sessions on the same tired topics day after day after day. More often than not these days, those threads turn into pissing matches and escalate until a Staff member has to step in. It makes us grumpy. And you all won't like us when we're grumpy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zoony Posted February 8, 2006 Share Posted February 8, 2006 I must say I am honored to of started a thread with many Mods posting in it...even if its not an intellectual thread I think you've touched on something interesting... it seems like the mods are less and less a part of the community in the tailgate anymore. Which I think has contributed to the problem(s) described in this thread. Of course I'm not blaming the mods in the least, I know they're all very busy with the site and they all work very hard... I just think the sense of community that makes ES what it is/was... that is dissapearing somewhat. I don't know if that is a function of size, the merger, what... it just feels like a post from a mod (that is not a mod-type post) is pretty rare. And from the above post, it looks like I'm not the only one who's noticed. :2cents: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Om Posted February 8, 2006 Share Posted February 8, 2006 Funny thing, zoony ... that's going to be changing. Look for us to be around more than we have in a few months, particularly now that the season and attendant responsibilities we didn't used to have are mostly over, and we're able to breath again for a bit. That said, it's a shame that mods would even NEED to be around and visible in order to keep the conversation interesting AND civil. With a community this large, with as many bright, engaging veteran members around who "get it" every bit as much as the mods do, you'd think the party would be able to carry on within the bounds of what ES is all about without mommy and daddy having to chaperone. As we all know, however, when the cat's away ... stuff happens. Well ... Meow. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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