rincewind Posted February 8, 2006 Share Posted February 8, 2006 As we all know, however, when the cat's away ... stuff happens. Well ... Meow. Hey, isn't that Jesus? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Om Posted February 8, 2006 Share Posted February 8, 2006 No. Clarence. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dfitzo53 Posted February 8, 2006 Share Posted February 8, 2006 If you know my approach around here at all, my friend, you know I LOVE a good debate, between parties who understand the difference between discourse and dogmatism. I too pick up new ways of seeing issues by reading along. There are some damn smart and articulate people on this board.What I'm talking about is not that, it's the issue that's once again BECOMING an issue for the Staff, which is the same endless posturing and repetition of the same entrenched, inflexible dogmatic positions of a handful of posters who cannot seem to resist engaging in the same competing soapbox sessions on the same tired topics day after day after day. More often than not these days, those threads turn into pissing matches and escalate until a Staff member has to step in. It makes us grumpy. And you all won't like us when we're grumpy. I do know your approach, I understood the point of your original post, and I agree that the quality of the Tailgate has declined. Partly, I'm sure it has to do with the population boom the site has experienced. I guess my point was along the lines of don't throw the baby out with the bathwater, not that I really thought that was in danger of happening. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zoony Posted February 8, 2006 Share Posted February 8, 2006 With a community this large, with as many bright, engaging veteran members around who "get it" every bit as much as the mods do, you'd think the party would be able to carry on within the bounds of what ES is all about without mommy and daddy having to chaperone. Well that's just it... I think the mods have gone from 'just one of the guys who happen to be a mod as well', to (using your words) 'mommy and daddy'. Look I want to be very clear... I understand how much work you guys put in and how much you each mean to the site... I am by no means calling you guys out, etc. Far from it, so I hope my thoughts will not be taken as such... I just think back to when I first started posting around here... one of the things that really struck me was the community. Hell, half the time I couldn't tell who the mods were. :laugh: (believe me that is a compliment ) I'm not trying to tell you guys how to run your site or even offer advice... at the end of the day it is your site, you guys built it, and you guys run it. We're all just guests in Blade & DH's & Om's living rooms when it comes right down to it. But I think the hosts have dissapeared, and now that the dinner guests are drunk, the hosts return only to remove those who are breaking the furniture, not to re-join the party.... (o.k. that was a dumb analogy I know, but it's late so give me a break ) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Om Posted February 8, 2006 Share Posted February 8, 2006 I do know your approach, I understood the point of your original post, and I agree that the quality of the Tailgate has declined. Partly, I'm sure it has to do with the population boom the site has experienced.I guess my point was along the lines of don't throw the baby out with the bathwater, not that I really thought that was in danger of happening. Absolutely it won't happen. Which is why I said in my first post that it won't be Tailgate that goes away, just perhaps certain Tailgaters. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rincewind Posted February 8, 2006 Share Posted February 8, 2006 No. Clarence. I do believe C.S. Lewis would disagree with you. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cdowwe Posted February 8, 2006 Author Share Posted February 8, 2006 Absolutely it won't happen.Which is why I said in my first post that it won't be Tailgate that goes away, just perhaps certain Tailgaters. House cleaning Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Om Posted February 8, 2006 Share Posted February 8, 2006 Well that's just it... I think the mods have gone from 'just one of the guys who happen to be a mod as well', to (using your words) 'mommy and daddy'. Look I want to be very clear... I understand how much work you guys put in and how much you each mean to the site... I am by no means calling you guys out, etc. Far from it, so I hope my thoughts will not be taken as such... I just think back to when I first started posting around here... one of the things that really struck me was the community. Hell, half the time I couldn't tell who the mods were. :laugh: (believe me that is a compliment ) I'm not trying to tell you guys how to run your site or even offer advice... at the end of the day it is your site, you guys built it, and you guys run it. We're all just guests in Blade & DH's & Om's living rooms when it comes right down to it. But I think the hosts have dissapeared, and now that the dinner guests are drunk, the hosts return only to remove those who are breaking the furniture, not to re-join the party.... (o.k. that was a dumb analogy I know, but it's late so give me a break ) All silliness aside, you're 100% right. Among other things, our new duties, combined with the huge site growth, have made it harder for us to simply be a regular part of the conversation rather than solely it's moderators. When our only involvement is policework, it ain't as much fun---for anyone. We're going to try to reverse that a bit, and get back to hopefully adding to the conversation rather than simply patrolling it ... well, and maybe framing the debate so subtly and cleverly from time to time that no one knows it's being done. We'll also be calling on those of you who do understand and appreciate what we're trying to do to help us out. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zoony Posted February 8, 2006 Share Posted February 8, 2006 We'll also be calling on those of you who do understand and appreciate what we're trying to do to help us out. done! but I'm warning you... I'm not so good at that subtlety thing. Hell, I'm not even sure if I spelled it correctly. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tarhog Posted February 8, 2006 Share Posted February 8, 2006 To answer the broader question, we're around less in Tailgate as posters not because 'we're too busy', or because of the growth of the membership, but because its simply not what it used to be. The hallmark of that forum USED to be humor, clever satire, creativity, silliness, of which we tried at least, to be a part. Its been overrun by nasty non-stop tone-deaf political diatribe. Its gotten old. You're hard pressed to enter a Tailgate thread and not run smack into a discussion thats gotten out of hand. And usually by the same 10-15 guys. Over and over again. Some of them have even been given months off from that forum. They promise to do better, we let them back in, and before long, its the same as it ever was. Some have even taken to arguing with us when we call them on their behavior. I think we can do without those 10-15 guys, whichever side of the aisle they are arguing endlessly from. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rincewind Posted February 8, 2006 Share Posted February 8, 2006 To answer the broader question, we're around less in Tailgate as posters not because 'we're too busy', or because of the growth of the membership, but because its simply not what it used to be. The hallmark of that forum USED to be humor, clever satire, creativity, silliness, of which we tried at least, to be a part. Its been overrun by nasty non-stop tone-deaf political diatribe. Its gotten old. You're hard pressed to enter a Tailgate thread and not run smack into a discussion thats gotten out of hand. And usually by the same 10-15 guys. Over and over again. Some of them have even been given months off from that forum. They promise to do better, we let them back in, and before long, its the same as it ever was. Some have even taken to arguing with us when we call them on their behavior.I think we can do without those 10-15 guys, whichever side of the aisle they are arguing endlessly from. Yeah, i also think its odd that almost every thread turns into either a political or religious arguement. The topics will start off as something TOTALLY different and before long 'well its all the (fill in hate full term for a political party)'s fault'. Hell, there have been a few RIP threads that have gotten pretty ugly over the past month or two. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Om Posted February 8, 2006 Share Posted February 8, 2006 I do believe C.S. Lewis would disagree with you. Hey, I'm agnostic. And I prefer Tolkien. And the eyes were crossed. And ... Okay, so I missed it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dfitzo53 Posted February 8, 2006 Share Posted February 8, 2006 To answer the broader question, we're around less in Tailgate as posters not because 'we're too busy', or because of the growth of the membership, but because its simply not what it used to be. The hallmark of that forum USED to be humor, clever satire, creativity, silliness, of which we tried at least, to be a part. Its been overrun by nasty non-stop tone-deaf political diatribe. Its gotten old. You're hard pressed to enter a Tailgate thread and not run smack into a discussion thats gotten out of hand. And usually by the same 10-15 guys. Over and over again. Some of them have even been given months off from that forum. They promise to do better, we let them back in, and before long, its the same as it ever was. Some have even taken to arguing with us when we call them on their behavior.I think we can do without those 10-15 guys, whichever side of the aisle they are arguing endlessly from. I've been thinking about this a while, and maybe it wouldn't be a bad idea to create a forum called Capitol Hill or something. Leave the politics there, and let Tailgate cover the rest of it. It's not a perfect solution by any stretch. It doesn't really address the divisiveness and posturing that has plagued Tailgate recently, but it's a thought. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rincewind Posted February 8, 2006 Share Posted February 8, 2006 I've been thinking about this a while, and maybe it wouldn't be a bad idea to create a forum called Capitol Hill or something. Leave the politics there, and let Tailgate cover the rest of it.It's not a perfect solution by any stretch. It doesn't really address the divisiveness and posturing that has plagued Tailgate recently, but it's a thought. Yeah, it would be pretty funny to see an entire forum of closed threads! :laugh: Nothing but masterlocks all the way down the left side. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Om Posted February 8, 2006 Share Posted February 8, 2006 To answer the broader question, we're around less in Tailgate as posters not because 'we're too busy', or because of the growth of the membership, but because its simply not what it used to be. The hallmark of that forum USED to be humor, clever satire, creativity, silliness, of which we tried at least, to be a part. Its been overrun by nasty non-stop tone-deaf political diatribe. Its gotten old. You're hard pressed to enter a Tailgate thread and not run smack into a discussion thats gotten out of hand. And usually by the same 10-15 guys. Over and over again. Some of them have even been given months off from that forum. They promise to do better, we let them back in, and before long, its the same as it ever was. Some have even taken to arguing with us when we call them on their behavior.I think we can do without those 10-15 guys, whichever side of the aisle they are arguing endlessly from. No doubt, there will be casualties in this war. It's going to take more than just "house cleaning," though ... it's also going to take the cooperation and involvement of a number of posters, the kind who care enough to help out. And it's going to take, I believe, the involvement of the Staff to re-engage and be, if nothing else, visible, at least for a while. Taigate didn't deteriorate overnight, and it's not going to be repaired overnight. But be assured ... we will not tire, we will not falter, and we will not fail. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zoony Posted February 8, 2006 Share Posted February 8, 2006 Yeah, it would be pretty funny to see an entire forum of closed threads! :laugh: . The page of thread titles would look like this... (locked)-More Insanity from the left! (1, 2, 3, 4, 5) last post by Tarhog (locked)-More Insanity from the right! (1, 2, 3, 4, 5) last post by IHeartSkins (locked)-Rush Limbaugh is a Moron. Here's why.(1, 2, 3, 4, 5) last post by Om (locked)-Who does Moore think he is? (1, 2, 3, 4, 5) last post by Tarhog (locked)-So how 'bout them wiretaps? (1, 2, 3, 4, 5) last post by Henry (locked)-Bush is a Ninny! (1, 2, 3, 4, 5) last post by Pete (locked)-Kerry clubs baby seals! (1, 2, 3, 4, 5) last post by TK (locked)-It's Clinton's fault! (1, 2, 3, 4, 5) last post by Tarhog **(locked)-I'm a Patriots Fan! (1, 2, 3, 4, 5) last post by Henry ** dem jus jokes Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rincewind Posted February 8, 2006 Share Posted February 8, 2006 The page of thread titles would look like this...(locked)-Bush is a Ninny! (1, 2, 3, 4, 5) last post by Pete Yea, Pete gets to close one down! Way to go Pete! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HOF44 Posted February 8, 2006 Share Posted February 8, 2006 But be assured ... we will not tire, we will not falter, and we will not fail. Dubya has a way with words. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tarhog Posted February 8, 2006 Share Posted February 8, 2006 Dubya has a way with words. Om's a uniter, not a divider. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Om Posted February 8, 2006 Share Posted February 8, 2006 Don't make me go nucular on ya. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HOF44 Posted February 8, 2006 Share Posted February 8, 2006 Well I think we agree, the past is over. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Om Posted February 8, 2006 Share Posted February 8, 2006 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Henry Posted February 8, 2006 Share Posted February 8, 2006 Yeah, it would be pretty funny to see an entire forum of closed threads! :laugh: Nothing but masterlocks all the way down the left side. Don't laugh. We've done that before. I'm sorry we mods just don't come across as regular guys anymore. I know I try and join a debate now and then. The problem is that when a thread gets out of hand we mods are expected to do something about it. If you all want us to be regular joes around here, stop making us be more than that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dfitzo53 Posted February 8, 2006 Share Posted February 8, 2006 Don't laugh. We've done that before.I'm sorry we mods just don't come across as regular guys anymore. I know I try and join a debate now and then. The problem is that when a thread gets out of hand we mods are expected to do something about it. If you all want us to be regular joes around here, stop making us be more than that. It's not quite as simple as saying the mods don't take proactive roles in the discussions. The entire tenor of the Tailgate has changed in the past six months or so. We used to notice posts by the mods because they weren't drowning in a sea of partisan/off-topic/knee-jerk/inflammatory nonsense. I rarely follow threads beyond page three or four anymore because at that point they've degenerated into something not worth my time. For the mods it isn't even worth trying to clean up the alphabet soup, and no one's looking for real insight once people have drawn the line in the sand and taken sides anyway. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
portisizzle Posted February 8, 2006 Share Posted February 8, 2006 You're missing the point.I went to that site once, said my piece, learned a couple things, and apparently helped a few people there see some things in a way they hadn't before. Then I left. See the difference? No, not really. You found a topic that interested you and decided to post your questions and comments. It is much easier for me to find topics that interest me enough to debate right here. With people I "know". And when most of us are done we leave that thread. The difference is only in the URL. Not that it matters but what you did is the same as many do here on this site. "Preach to the choir"**. You didn't have to sign up and be an active lifetime member to be doing the same things we do here. ** Preach was not the perfect word to use because debate is not preaching. But you get the idea. Did anyone on that website praise the lord because you came there and showed them the light? Additionally, other than allowing those posters to illustrate how arrogant their position was I do not see what additionally you may have learned that you could not out of simple experience on the job. (And probably already knew going into the discussion. The best they had was it was their livelihood and that we were doing this for fun.) And certainly not worth the time for them to try and change your mind. Of course if you learned something more concrete than that, or they learned something more concrete than just being shown some points, well then THAT is why we debate. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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