The Shepherd catch... what Bucs fans don't want you to know.

[Die Hard]

When Bucs fans clamor about the catch that "wasn't a catch".... here's what you throw right back at them. It was not a catch. In the past, by NFL rules, it was. However, the rules have changed in the last 3-4 years. And as Skins fans, we have been burned by that very same call. So there's really no excuse why Skins fans wouldn't know it wasn't a catch.

I was a little peeved when I saw a new report with a Bucs fan saying "I was sitting beside a Redskins fan in the stadium and he told me he knew it was a catch". As a Redskins fan, I'm ashamed of that fan.

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http://www.theledger.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20051225/NEWS/512250428/1009/SPORTS02

By Mike Cobb

The Ledger

Published Sunday, December 25, 2005

MORA BACKS OFFICIALS

At first, Atlanta receiver Roddy White appeared to catch a 38yard touchdown on the first play of the fourth quarter, but when the ball popped out when White hit the ground, the officials ruled it an incomplete pass. A replay review upheld the original call.

Atlanta coach Jim Mora, who made the initial challenge, said after the game that the refs made the right call.

"There is a different parameter in the end zone than there is on the field," he said. "You have to, if you hit the ground, come up with the ball and he didn't come up with the ball, so (the officials) got that one right. They did a nice job with that."

Had it been a touchdown, it would have given the Falcons a 24-14 lead. Instead, quarterback Michael Vick was sacked for a 16-yard loss on third-and-8, and the Falcons punted.

----------------------

http://www.gainesvilletimes.com/news/stories/20051225/localsports/51661.shtml

BUCS THREE UP: The Falcons lost all three challenged calls, two of which involved rookie receiver Roddy White.

Tampa Bay head coach Jon Gruden had a first-quarter catch that covered 14 yards overturned in favor of the Bucs. Mora was unsuccessful in his challenge of Michael Vick's 62-yard pass to Roddy White early in the fourth.

White beat safeties Jermaine Phillips and Dexter Jackson to make a diving attempt in the end zone. He momentarily had the ball in possession, but White dropped it before he hit the ground.

----------------------

http://bucs.tbo.com/bucs/MGB9DIPXRHE.html

Bucs Riding Breaks Into Postseason

By ROY CUMMINGS of The Tampa Tribune

Published: Dec 28, 2005

The Bucs are going to the playoffs. Nothing short of a rare alignment of the planets can prevent that from happening. Good for the Bucs. They’ve certainly earned the opportunity to play beyond the regular season.

Their success this year, however, has not been all their own doing. Without question the Bucs have had some help. Along the way they have had a lot of balls bounce their way and a lot of calls go their way.

Go back to Week 1 in Minnesota. Juran Bolden fell down while defending tight end Jermaine Wiggins on a play in which Wiggins caught a 35-yard touchdown pass. The only problem was, the game’s officials didn’t see it that way.

Though replays clearly showed Bolden falling on his own and not as a result of contact made by Wiggins, a penalty for offensive pass interference was called that erased a touchdown and forced Minnesota to settle for a field goal.

Some have even questioned the call made in a similar situation in the fourth quarter of that game in which Minnesota’s Nate Burleson was called for an illegal block on a third-down play that initially resulted in a touchdown.

The Bucs were called for offsides on that play, so Burleson’s penalty erased the outcome of it. The Vikings still converted the third down but they eventually settled for a field goal instead of game-tying touchdown.

Two weeks later the Bucs got another break in their game against Green Bay, where quarterback Brian Griese fumbled the ball at his own 14-yard line with the Bucs holding on to a 17-13 lead late in the third quarter.

The Packers recovered the fumble but after reviewing the play officials ruled they had blown the play dead and returned possession to the Bucs. The Bucs, of course, went on to win their third straight game.

The Bucs won their fourth straight game a week later at Raymond James Stadium but once again it was not without the help of officials, who this time overturned an apparent game-winning touchdown pass late in the fourth quarter.

Marcus Pollard was the pass catcher who made the sliding catch of a Joey Harrington pass, but the fact that every part of his body except his right kneecap was in the end zone when he caught the ball didn’t sway the officials.

After a review they ruled the play an incompletion and after two desperation attempts by Harrington failed to get the Lions back the touchdown they’d apparently scored, the Bucs were declared the winners.

The Bucs were reeling a few weeks later when they took on the Redskins at Raymond James Stadium, but behind new quarterback Chris Simms they rallied to produce a thrilling yet controversial 36-35 victory.

We say controversial because the game-winning score came on a 2-point conversion in which the Redskins seemingly stopped fullback Mike Alstott short of the goal line.

What worked in the Bucs favor this time was the fact that the ball was not visible in video replays. All anyone could see was that Alstott’s head and shoulders were over the goal line.

The ball, however, was in Alstott’s right hand, and since Alstott’s elbow was resting on the goal line, logic tells you that ball had to be at least a foot shy of that marker.

The Bucs spent the next few weeks making their own breaks, getting timely interceptions form players such as Ronde Barber and big plays from others such as Joey Galloway, Simms and Derrick Brooks.

But in last week’s pivotal game against the Falcons, officials ruled in the Bucs favor yet again. The big call this time erased another apparent touchdown catch, this one by rookie Roddy White.

White had stretched out to make the catch and even took a step in the end zone after making it. However, because he hit the ground "on his own" and dropped the ball upon making contact with the ground the play was ruled an incompletion.

Breaks like that are part of the game and part of what any team needs to get to the playoffs. And there’s no question the Bucs have had their share of breaks go their way this year

You have to wonder, though, how much longer this can go on. You get the feeling now that the law of averages is no longer in the Bucs favor and that the breaks, just when they need them most, may start to go the other way.

---------------------------

[PleaseBlitz]

----------------------

http://bucs.tbo.com/bucs/MGB9DIPXRHE.html

Bucs Riding Breaks Into Postseason

By ROY CUMMINGS of The Tampa Tribune

Published: Dec 28, 2005

The Bucs are going to the playoffs. Nothing short of a rare alignment of the planets can prevent that from happening. Good for the Bucs. They’ve certainly earned the opportunity to play beyond the regular season.

Their success this year, however, has not been all their own doing. Without question the Bucs have had some help. Along the way they have had a lot of balls bounce their way and a lot of calls go their way.

Go back to Week 1 in Minnesota. Juran Bolden fell down while defending tight end Jermaine Wiggins on a play in which Wiggins caught a 35-yard touchdown pass. The only problem was, the game’s officials didn’t see it that way.

Though replays clearly showed Bolden falling on his own and not as a result of contact made by Wiggins, a penalty for offensive pass interference was called that erased a touchdown and forced Minnesota to settle for a field goal.

Some have even questioned the call made in a similar situation in the fourth quarter of that game in which Minnesota’s Nate Burleson was called for an illegal block on a third-down play that initially resulted in a touchdown.

The Bucs were called for offsides on that play, so Burleson’s penalty erased the outcome of it. The Vikings still converted the third down but they eventually settled for a field goal instead of game-tying touchdown.

Two weeks later the Bucs got another break in their game against Green Bay, where quarterback Brian Griese fumbled the ball at his own 14-yard line with the Bucs holding on to a 17-13 lead late in the third quarter.

The Packers recovered the fumble but after reviewing the play officials ruled they had blown the play dead and returned possession to the Bucs. The Bucs, of course, went on to win their third straight game.

The Bucs won their fourth straight game a week later at Raymond James Stadium but once again it was not without the help of officials, who this time overturned an apparent game-winning touchdown pass late in the fourth quarter.

Marcus Pollard was the pass catcher who made the sliding catch of a Joey Harrington pass, but the fact that every part of his body except his right kneecap was in the end zone when he caught the ball didn’t sway the officials.

After a review they ruled the play an incompletion and after two desperation attempts by Harrington failed to get the Lions back the touchdown they’d apparently scored, the Bucs were declared the winners.

The Bucs were reeling a few weeks later when they took on the Redskins at Raymond James Stadium, but behind new quarterback Chris Simms they rallied to produce a thrilling yet controversial 36-35 victory.

We say controversial because the game-winning score came on a 2-point conversion in which the Redskins seemingly stopped fullback Mike Alstott short of the goal line.

What worked in the Bucs favor this time was the fact that the ball was not visible in video replays. All anyone could see was that Alstott’s head and shoulders were over the goal line.

The ball, however, was in Alstott’s right hand, and since Alstott’s elbow was resting on the goal line, logic tells you that ball had to be at least a foot shy of that marker.

The Bucs spent the next few weeks making their own breaks, getting timely interceptions form players such as Ronde Barber and big plays from others such as Joey Galloway, Simms and Derrick Brooks.

But in last week’s pivotal game against the Falcons, officials ruled in the Bucs favor yet again. The big call this time erased another apparent touchdown catch, this one by rookie Roddy White.

White had stretched out to make the catch and even took a step in the end zone after making it. However, because he hit the ground "on his own" and dropped the ball upon making contact with the ground the play was ruled an incompletion.

Breaks like that are part of the game and part of what any team needs to get to the playoffs. And there’s no question the Bucs have had their share of breaks go their way this year

You have to wonder, though, how much longer this can go on. You get the feeling now that the law of averages is no longer in the Bucs favor and that the breaks, just when they need them most, may start to go the other way.

---------------------------

That guy must be Tampa's version of Sally Jenkins.

I had it on TiVo. It wasnt a catch. We're going to Seattle! :point2sky

[inmate running the asylum]

Good research, Die Hard.

Phil Simms who was announcing the Cincinnati-Pittsburgh game today, said that he thought that the Bucs had scored the game-tying touchdown on the pass into the endzone against the Redskins in the 4th quarter.

Of course. Because his son lost the friggin game. :laugh:

[Kosher Ham]

Diehard, as you stated, as Redskins fans we should all know that it wasnt a catch.

[Ghost of]

PleaseBlitz, please don't quote an entire block of huge text like that.

I've tried to get better, you can go and delete big portions or just pick one line you like and want to respond to...

[GrimReefa]

I thought he never had control of it anyway. You can see, from the back of the endzone angle, that it was starting to come up before he hit the ground.

I thought that that was a great play by Carlos Rogers, who could have just given up after he was beat.

[ERIC THE REDskinsfan]

...I thought that that was a great play by Carlos Rogers, who could have just given up after he was beat.

Right on man. Carlos made a helluva try to knock it loose. He definitely didn't give up and started that ball coming out!

[jrockster21]

I've seen at least one Tampa fan on the board say they won that game on that call...I think it was a thread titled "Please ignore Tampa fans who say..." or somethign like that.

[Cahills_Skins]

http://bucs.tbo.com/bucs/MGB9DIPXRHE.html

Bucs Riding Breaks Into Postseason

By ROY CUMMINGS of The Tampa Tribune

Published: Dec 28, 2005

The Bucs are going to the playoffs. Nothing short of a rare alignment of the planets can prevent that from happening. Good for the Bucs. They’ve certainly earned the opportunity to play beyond the regular season.

Their success this year, however, has not been all their own doing. Without question the Bucs have had some help. Along the way they have had a lot of balls bounce their way and a lot of calls go their way.

Go back to Week 1 in Minnesota. Juran Bolden fell down while defending tight end Jermaine Wiggins on a play in which Wiggins caught a 35-yard touchdown pass. The only problem was, the game’s officials didn’t see it that way.

Though replays clearly showed Bolden falling on his own and not as a result of contact made by Wiggins, a penalty for offensive pass interference was called that erased a touchdown and forced Minnesota to settle for a field goal.

Some have even questioned the call made in a similar situation in the fourth quarter of that game in which Minnesota’s Nate Burleson was called for an illegal block on a third-down play that initially resulted in a touchdown.

The Bucs were called for offsides on that play, so Burleson’s penalty erased the outcome of it. The Vikings still converted the third down but they eventually settled for a field goal instead of game-tying touchdown.

Two weeks later the Bucs got another break in their game against Green Bay, where quarterback Brian Griese fumbled the ball at his own 14-yard line with the Bucs holding on to a 17-13 lead late in the third quarter.

The Packers recovered the fumble but after reviewing the play officials ruled they had blown the play dead and returned possession to the Bucs. The Bucs, of course, went on to win their third straight game.

The Bucs won their fourth straight game a week later at Raymond James Stadium but once again it was not without the help of officials, who this time overturned an apparent game-winning touchdown pass late in the fourth quarter.

Marcus Pollard was the pass catcher who made the sliding catch of a Joey Harrington pass, but the fact that every part of his body except his right kneecap was in the end zone when he caught the ball didn’t sway the officials.

After a review they ruled the play an incompletion and after two desperation attempts by Harrington failed to get the Lions back the touchdown they’d apparently scored, the Bucs were declared the winners.

The Bucs were reeling a few weeks later when they took on the Redskins at Raymond James Stadium, but behind new quarterback Chris Simms they rallied to produce a thrilling yet controversial 36-35 victory.

We say controversial because the game-winning score came on a 2-point conversion in which the Redskins seemingly stopped fullback Mike Alstott short of the goal line.

What worked in the Bucs favor this time was the fact that the ball was not visible in video replays. All anyone could see was that Alstott’s head and shoulders were over the goal line.

The ball, however, was in Alstott’s right hand, and since Alstott’s elbow was resting on the goal line, logic tells you that ball had to be at least a foot shy of that marker.

The Bucs spent the next few weeks making their own breaks, getting timely interceptions form players such as Ronde Barber and big plays from others such as Joey Galloway, Simms and Derrick Brooks.

But in last week’s pivotal game against the Falcons, officials ruled in the Bucs favor yet again. The big call this time erased another apparent touchdown catch, this one by rookie Roddy White.

White had stretched out to make the catch and even took a step in the end zone after making it. However, because he hit the ground "on his own" and dropped the ball upon making contact with the ground the play was ruled an incompletion.

Breaks like that are part of the game and part of what any team needs to get to the playoffs. And there’s no question the Bucs have had their share of breaks go their way this year

You have to wonder, though, how much longer this can go on. You get the feeling now that the law of averages is no longer in the Bucs favor and that the breaks, just when they need them most, may start to go the other way.

---------------------------

Who is this guy Nostra-f#$%ing Damus?? Holy S!@#, he called that.

[Shaddow]

We need to find some posts about the Falcons overturned call on a bucs messageboard with thier fans talking about that same rule when it was to thier benefit.

[AzSkinsFan63]

the problem is the rules have changed and we don't get a copy...

yeah I remeber the "NFL Move rule" but Noone was told about the Endzone chanegs to the rule..

That's friggin unacceptable as a fan...

[Redskin4ever]

the problem is the rules have changed and we don't get a copy...

yeah I remeber the "NFL Move rule" but Noone was told about the Endzone chanegs to the rule..

That's friggin unacceptable as a fan...

The reason the rule changed is because of the no-catch in the 1999 NFC championship game between the Rams and Bucs. It went against them when they caught a ball, but part of it hit the ground. So they changed the rule and made you have more complete control throughout the entire catch, even if part of the ball hits the ground.

So the Bucs can cry, but they were the ones who changed got the rule changed.

[just skins baby]

Whether a call goes for us or against us, I would like to see the NFL make a rule about having control of the ball all the way into the endzone. I saw it again with the Rudi Johnson TD where after he crossed the plane, the ball came loose.

I would like to see them have total control all the way through the endzone.

[scruffylookin]

The call was right and it wasn't a catch.

But here's what Buc fans don't seem to grasp. As a Redskins fan, I want that to be a bad call. I wish it was a catch and Mike Carey's crew totally blew the call and giftwrapped the victory for the Skins.

It's called payback for November 13th.

[skinthemboys]

Whether a call goes for us or against us, I would like to see the NFL make a rule about having control of the ball all the way into the endzone. I saw it again with the Rudi Johnson TD where after he crossed the plane, the ball came loose.

I would like to see them have total control all the way through the endzone.

I agree. I also dont like the rule about the goaline that "goes around the world".I think It should be kept within the pylons. I also dont like the Rule that says the tip of the football only has to break the outside edge of the goaline. At the very least, I think the ball needs to cross the whole goaline.....Without bumbling around in someones hands.

[Tarpon75]

I for one sitting at the game thought it was a catch.However,upon further review I don't believe it was.After seeing the replays on espn I don't think he had control regardless of the rule.I should have realized that they would show the replays on the jumbotron that would be advantageous to Tampa's case.Oh,by the way Pittman should have been ejected!

[chomerics]

Poor poor Chucky. . . first he had to suffer the hummiliation of "the tuck", only to lose to "the non-catch" a few years later :laugh: It couldn't happen to a nicer guy.

[SkinsFTW]

I think the whole thing is fitting after the Alstott BS and Bucs fans telling us to cry more.

Who's crying more now?

And they are wrong anyway on both. Alstott was stopped short. :D

[Larry]

I agree. I also dont like the rule about the goaline that "goes around the world".I think It should be kept within the pylons. I also dont like the Rule that says the tip of the football only has to break the outside edge of the goaline. At the very least, I think the ball needs to cross the whole goaline.....Without bumbling around in someones hands.

Sorry, but I agree with that rule. It's consistant with the rest of the rules.

• If any part of a player (or the ball) touches the sideline, then he's out.
  
• If any part of the ball is past any part of the first-down marker, then it'a a first down.
  

Now, as to the goal line, as I understand it, the ball, in order to be a TD, has to be in-bounds when it crosses the plane. (Whereas the player isn't out of bounds untill he touches the sideline.) That's why you'll see players being shoved out of bounds hold the ball in-bounds when they sail over the pylon.

[Steel Cross]

Antwaan Randel El had a similar non-touchdown today in the Steelers game. The refs are consistently ruling no TD in these situations. Sheppard's wasn't a catch, and neither was El's

[chickenlipper]

PleaseBlitz, please don't quote an entire block of huge text like that.

I've tried to get better, you can go and delete big portions or just pick one line you like and want to respond to...

People do that a lot on here. I don't get it,we know what the post is about already :doh:

[The Sisko]

I was driving back home from FL today and had a Bucs fan make a comment to me at a rest stop--yes, I was wearing Skins gear...again:) He said something to the effect that the Refs "handed" us the game. My reply was "Even if I were to give you yesterday's call, and I don't, it was still just a makeup for the Alstott gift two point conversion call". No response...owned:D

[dahogs]

When Bucs fans clamor about the catch that "wasn't a catch".... here's what you throw right back at them. It was not a catch. In the past, by NFL rules, it was. However, the rules have changed in the last 3-4 years. And as Skins fans, we have been burned by that very same call. So there's really no excuse why Skins fans wouldn't know it wasn't a catch.

I've made exactly the same point (in this forum) as below regarding the non-touchdown reception in Atlanta using the EXACT same rule as was used to negate the Buccaneers non-touchdown yesterday. I've asked Bucs fans to explain why there were absolutely zero outcries from them regarding the need for a rule change, and why they didn't think Atlanta deserved the touchdown during that game?

Of course, I never got a response...from anyone.

http://www.extremeskins.com/forums/showthread.php?p=2070909#post2070909

[Tarhog]

I was driving back home from FL today and had a Bucs fan make a comment to me at a rest stop, yes, I was wearing Skins gear...again:) He said something to the effect that the Refs "handed" us the game. My reply was "Even if I were to give you yesterday's call, and I don't, it was still just a makeup for the Alstott non TD". No response...owned:D

:laugh:

I don't see how anyone honest argues that call. Now you can dispute whether the rule is a good one, but the ball clearly comes out. Indisputable.

I think where people get mixed up is in viewing plays in a freeze-frame. The game isn't a series of freeze-frame shots, its played at full speed with players in continuous motion. You watch that play in full motion, its clear he never controlled the ball long enough to have full possession. The ref made the call immediately and was in perfect position to see it come out.

Unlike the Alstott play

[Seabee1973]

The reason the rule changed is because of the no-catch in the 1999 NFC championship game between the Rams and Bucs. It went against them when they caught a ball, but part of it hit the ground. So they changed the rule and made you have more complete control throughout the entire catch, even if part of the ball hits the ground.

So the Bucs can cry, but they were the ones who changed got the rule changed.

Actually the rule was changed to where as long as you maintained control of the ball it was considered a catch If Shepard had maintained control it would have been a catch. That is why in the first game between the skins when Galloway caught the ball and the tip of hit the ground he still held on that was very similar to the catch in the Rams game. The one in the Rams game was called incomplete. Now that is defined as a catch.