Is a college degree really necessary?

[tshile]

It is not necessary. But it helps, if you put the effort into it. College, from what I could tell, was a get out what you put in sort of thing. The people I know who just showed up to get their piece of paper got what they put into it; most of them now go on rants about how they'll steer their (future) children away from the massive useless debt that college is.

 

The people I know that treated college the way you're supposed to, also seem to have got out what they put in; and seem to be talking about how important saving for their children's education is.

 

I think PleaseBlitz is right - 18 is a tough age to decide what you want to do as an adult for a career, and to grasp the sheer amount of debt you're incurring to become that, and to appreciate it. Plenty do it fine, others struggle with understanding it. Countless people my age have told me that they were just doing what their parents, their teachers, their counselors, and pretty much everyone around them was telling them they had to do - go to college. That was pretty much the extent of the advice.

 

I had parents that made me figure out what I wanted to do, and which school would be best for me. I was lucky though, it wasn't really a hard decision to make. I wanted a CS degree.

 

Of course now that I'm 15 years older I wish I would have picked something else, but eh.

 

Also - the research on quality of life shows that the higher education you have the better your life will likely be. Job, income, likelihood of being in put in jail, where you live, quality of life, spouse... quality of life your children wind up having when they are adults... they all sort of tie into how you spent those years of your life.

 

It's based on finding an 'average' (even if that's not exactly what they're finding) so it's obviously not a guarantee either way. And you can surely do very well without going to college.

 

But if you're simply interested in giving yourself the best chance, being more educated and around people that are more educated is generally better than not.

 

[Warhead36]

For certain jobs where higher education is necessary(medicine, law etc.)then yes. But if you're gunna just dick around for four years and then take some random Joe Schmoe 9-5 office job, you probably don't need it.

[NoCalMike]

Sometimes i wonder if college straight out of high school is too soon for some people to commit to a degree that will cost a lot of money in a field they aren't even 100% sure they want as a career.

 

I think for the most part the idea behind going into debt for a degree is about the long haul, not just to get a random piece of paper that will help you get a job you are only lukewarm about wanting in the first place. 

 

I wish more companies had programs like some Pharmacies do where they put you through the schooling program and in return you have to commit to 2 years of being employed by them immediately after. It seems like a lot of companies that used to offer help with higher education have been rapidly changing the terms to where it is only if it pertains to specific jobs within the company and if there is a "business need" at the current time for that position. 

[tshile]

1 minute ago, NoCalMike said:

I wish more companies had programs like some Pharmacies do where they put you through the schooling program and in return you have to commit to 2 years of being employed by them immediately after. 

 

My wife did that. Got an AS while working as a waitress. Got a job in the field and used that money + the stipend offered for continuing education to get all the way to her masters. She now makes a ton of money and did it all with zero debt and zero help while living on her own.

 

And she did it in a field that has an incredible shortage of bodies right now.

 

It can all be done if you want to do it. You just got to figure out what you want, and whether you're willing to do what it takes.

 

Preferably before you borrow 100k to try it.

 

 

[ixcuincle]

yes

 

it has become the bare minimum

[PleaseBlitz]

30 minutes ago, Warhead36 said:

For certain jobs where higher education is necessary(medicine, law etc.)then yes. But if you're gunna just dick around for four years and then take some random Joe Schmoe 9-5 office job, you probably don't need it.

 

This is an excellent point.  I am still fairly involved with my law school, so recent college graduates ask me all the time if they should go to law school.  If they have to ask that question, if they don't know they want to be a lawyer, I tell them **** no.  There are better, funner and cheaper ways to dick around for three years.  I tell them to go hike Europe.  The same applies to undergrad.  If you don't know why you are there, then you shouldn't be there. 

[brandymac27]

10 minutes ago, NoCalMike said:

Sometimes i wonder if college straight out of high school is too soon for some people to commit to a degree that will cost a lot of money in a field they aren't even 100% sure they want as a career.

 

I think for the most part the idea behind going into debt for a degree is about the long haul, not just to get a random piece of paper that will help you get a job you are only lukewarm about wanting in the first place. 

 

I wish more companies had programs like some Pharmacies do where they put you through the schooling program and in return you have to commit to 2 years of being employed by them immediately after. It seems like a lot of companies that used to offer help with higher education have been rapidly changing the terms to where it is only if it pertains to specific jobs within the company and if there is a "business need" at the current time for that position. 

I feel the same way you do. Hell,  there are adults who don't know what they wanna do, so why do we put so much pressure on 18 yo kids?

 

Also,   I mean, there are times I want to tell my kids if you want to live comfortably, you have to be an OBGYN or an undertaker. People will never stop having sex and babies, and they'll never stop dying lol. It just seems like kids in college now, or even those in HS, are screwed because as technology advances, all the jobs that people of my age (42), will become obsolete in the near future. Everything is getting out sourced, and if it isn't, robotics, etc will replace everything else.

[Sacks 'n' Stuff]

The correct answer is, “depends”.

[tshile]

the lawyer just said funner

 

get that, advanced education

[brandymac27]

1 minute ago, tshile said:

the lawyer just said funner

 

get that, advanced education

Lol, I have a degree in Chemistry. But, by GOD, don't ask me to spell ****! We're all ****ed if you do ?

[PleaseBlitz]

2 minutes ago, tshile said:

the lawyer just said funner

 

get that, advanced education

 

I refer you to the OED. 

 

https://en.oxforddictionaries.com/definition/fun

 

Quote

The use of fun as an adjective meaning ‘enjoyable,’ as in we had a fun evening, is now established in informal use. The comparative and superlative forms funner and funnest are sometimes used but should be restricted to very informal contexts.

 

[tshile]

8 minutes ago, brandymac27 said:

Also,   I mean, there are times I want to tell my kids if you want to live comfortably, you have to be an OBGYN or an undertaker.

This made me think of the conversation i had with my friend, who has many kids. Both parents have degrees and great careers, but ultimately they decided they will not be paying for their children's education because it would cost too much to pay for all of them, and they're not giong to pick and choose. Plus, no one helped them...

 

So what they decided as to teach their kids that it's ok to be whatever you want (so long as it's legal, ethical, etc), but that it's important to understand what life styles cost what; and what jobs afford what life styles.

 

If you want to be a teacher that's fine, but you're not going to own a garage full of sports cars. We'll support your decision, but I will not listen to you **** about the life style being a teacher has afforded you. 

 

If you want the garage full of sports cars you're going to have to figure out some way to make a lot of money - skills, knowledge, whatever it is.

 

The most important thing is to be happy with yourself and your life, and the best way to do that is to know what you're getting into before you do it...

 

I can't really disagree with any of that.

 

2 minutes ago, PleaseBlitz said:

 

I refer you to the OED. 

 

https://en.oxforddictionaries.com/definition/fun

 

 

 

oh get out of here with this nonsense

 

[brandymac27]

2 minutes ago, tshile said:

This made me think of the conversation i had with my friend, who has many kids. Both parents have degrees and great careers, but ultimately they decided they will not be paying for their children's education because it would cost too much to pay for all of them, and they're not giong to pick and choose.

 

So what they decided as to teach their kids that it's ok to be whatever you want (so long as it's legal, ethical, etc), but that it's important to understand what life styles cost what; and what jobs afford what life styles.

 

If you want to be a teacher that's fine, but you're not going to own a garage full of sports cars. We'll support your decision, but I will not listen to you **** about the life style being a teacher has afforded you. 

 

If you want the garage full of sports cars you're going to have to figure out some way to make a lot of money - skills, knowledge, whatever it is.

 

The most important thing is to be happy with yourself and your life, and the best way to do that is to know what you're getting into before you do it...

 

I can't really disagree with any of that.

 

 

oh get out of here with this nonsense

 

Yeah, but can you really expect a kid 18-21 to know what they really want or need?

[tshile]

1 minute ago, brandymac27 said:

Yeah, but can you really expect a kid 18-21 to know what they really want or need?

 

I think he expects it to be a 0-18 sort of lesson. Reinforced regularly. 

 

Everyone is different. Assigning an arbitrary number is never going to be fair for everyone. There will always be a group that is ready and a group that isn't.

 

If a parent makes a real effort to bring a kid up to understand the importance and cost of education, vs effort and career desires, etc... and at 18 they still don't get it, I don't know what you're supposed to do. I guess if you can afford to keep them at home for a few more years and hope they'll grow out of it you can do that.

 

Which, by the way, is basically what my parents did. And if they didn't, I doubt i'd have my education or be where I am. I don't know. Life isn't fair. Some people get the bad luck some people get the good luck and sometimes people with good luck piss it away and people with bad luck overcome it.

[AsburySkinsFan]

2 hours ago, brandymac27 said:

I think that's great advice, and basically what I've told my kids as well. I just hope they don't end up in the same situation I'm in. JSSkinz mentioned using tuition reimbursement to go to grad school, but I don't have that option right now. It just makes me wonder if all the time and money I've spent was really worth it. I could have gotten a job in sales with no degree making more than I do now with a degree smh.

Oh tell me about it, I've got 10 years worth of higher ed and I'm not even working in that field. 

Now, I'll say this. Working in that field put me in the position to be where I am now which allows for significantly more options than where I was before. As such I don't regret my studies...but I do wish I could have gotten here without having to go there.

[brandymac27]

2 minutes ago, tshile said:

 

I think he expects it to be a 0-18 sort of lesson. Reinforced regularly. 

 

Everyone is different. Assigning an arbitrary number is never going to be fair for everyone. There will always be a group that is ready and a group that isn't.

 

If a parent makes a real effort to bring a kid up to understand the importance and cost of education, vs effort and career desires, etc... and at 18 they still don't get it, I don't know what you're supposed to do. I guess if you can afford to keep them at home for a few more years and hope they'll grow out of it you can do that.

 

Which, by the way, is basically what my parents did. And if they didn't, I doubt i'd have my education or be where I am. I don't know. Life isn't fair. Some people get the bad luck some people get the good luck and sometimes people with good luck piss it away and people with bad luck overcome it.

I appreciate the honesty. I guess I just feel like I'm supposed to guide my kids in a direction that will help them lead successful lives. The way, and speed,  that technology is advancing these days, scares the hell out of me. I mean, I'm not gonna push my kids to get a degree in IT when a lot of those jobs are being outsourced and in 10 years they could be on unemployment because of that. I'd rather encourage them to start their own business in whatever. Times are changing, and I just don't know if college is the absolute end all be all like it was when I was in HS.

[tshile]

14 minutes ago, brandymac27 said:

I guess I just feel like I'm supposed to guide my kids in a direction that will help them lead successful lives.

I'm in the same boat except that my one is 3 and the other is -5 weeks (hahaha get it, she's not born yet. hahaha)

 

anyways, so i have the luxury of time. we're saving for college for both, and the extent of what we've decided is that we will make them pay their own way and should they actually do what they're supposed to we'll cover it when they're done. if they screw around then they'll have had an expensive few years of partying and the debt to show for it.

 

which sucks because none of the gov't provided savings plans (like a 529) let you do that, but ultimately we want to do it that way.

 

if one (or both i suppose) don't go to college we'll use the money to benefit them somehow, assuming they deserve it (definition of deserve subject to change whenever and however we like ) maybe help with their first house or something. i don't feel right saving this money for college and then my child decides college isn't for them, them being correct in determining that, and then me deciding that just because they didn't go to college they now shouldn't get the help we planned in any form...

 

with my luck my son will be a little asshole and therefore i will see myself in him and get sucked into doing what my parents did for me, which was waste a ton of money waiting for me to grow up and act somewhat my age.

 

yippee.

 

[Bacon]

I've been a career student up to this point and am going into English teaching (currently I teach Chinese students ESL online), but I'll say what I always say in response to this question:

 

If you don't know why you're going to college, don't go. It is not a practical or affordable place to find out what you want to do with your life. If you're not sure what direction you want to go, get a job and keep your eyes and ears open. Talk to people. Read. Find out what excites you and formulate a plan with which you can support yourself and thrive.

 

Throughout my scholastic career, I have jumped all over the place but ended up with two degrees in different forms of writing. I always knew that I wanted to do something with writing, but I didn't know what that was. I wanted to be journalist, then I wanted to be an editor that wrote novels on the side...now I want to teach community college creative writing and composition. I got my pieces of paper but racked up a lot of debt and put off getting a "real job," which has negatively impacted my self-esteem as a 27 year-old without a full-time job that's been in school all his life.

 

None of this is even my dream. My real dream - like Homer Simpson wanting to own the Dallas Cowboys - is a little bit absurd: I want to have a successful animated series. I've spent two years working on that dream with an artist friend of mine and things are chugging along. But I am a practical man and know I can't feed a family on that - yet.

 

If you have dreams that can be best achieved through a college degree, go get one. I still regret not buckling down and getting a degree in animation so I wouldn't have to settle on teaching. But hey, I'm not without prospects and I can thank the American educational system for that.

[PleaseBlitz]

I have a 3 year old and expect that by the time she is college-aged it will either be totally free or a billion dollars to go anywhere good.

[tshile]

3 minutes ago, PleaseBlitz said:

I have a 3 year old and expect that by the time she is college-aged it will either be totally free or a billion dollars to go anywhere good.

 

You're a lawyer. You're in the same boat as me, though I'm in the boat because of my wife not me.

 

It'll be free but we'll make too much money so it'll just be a billion dollars for our children to go anywhere, and our taxes will be used to send other people's kids to school.

 

Don't worry, we'll be able to afford it. That's why it's fair.

 

 

[bearrock]

I think it makes sense for kids to take at least one year for an off year before deciding what do to after high school.  It's a long journey.  Not the worst idea in the world to stop every once in a while and pause a bit.

[brandymac27]

5 minutes ago, tshile said:

I'm in the same boat except that my one is 3 and the other is -5 weeks (hahaha get it, she's not born yet. hahaha)

 

anyways, so i have the luxury of time. we're saving for college for both, and the extent of what we've decided is that we will make them pay their own way and should they actually do what they're supposed to we'll cover it when they're done. if they screw around then they'll have had an expensive few years of partying and the debt to show for it.

 

which sucks because none of the gov't provided savings plans (like a 529) let you do that, but ultimately we want to do it that way.

 

if one (or both i suppose) don't go to college we'll use the money to benefit them somehow, assuming they deserve it (definition of deserve subject to change whenever and however we like ) maybe help with their first house or something. 

 

with my luck my son will be a little asshole and therefore i will see myself in him and get sucked into doing what my parents did for me, which was waste a ton of money waiting for me to grow up and act somewhat my age.

 

yippee.

 

? Welcome to parenthood! And congrats on the (almost) new one! I remember when mine were that age, and my sympathies go out to you ?

 

My son, DJ ( my youngest who's 18), was a HOLY terror!!! I couldn't pee by myself without him getting into something! Thank God he turned out to be a really great kid! I'm sure yours will too. In the meanwhile, I'll pray for you ?

[Elessar78]

47 minutes ago, brandymac27 said:

I feel the same way you do. Hell,  there are adults who don't know what they wanna do, so why do we put so much pressure on 18 yo kids?

 

Also,   I mean, there are times I want to tell my kids if you want to live comfortably, you have to be an OBGYN or an undertaker. People will never stop having sex and babies, and they'll never stop dying lol. It just seems like kids in college now, or even those in HS, are screwed because as technology advances, all the jobs that people of my age (42), will become obsolete in the near future. Everything is getting out sourced, and if it isn't, robotics, etc will replace everything else.

My brother in law is an undertaker and he does VERY well (helps that his family has been burying people since the calendar started with "18").

 

At the same time, many people find their path or passion in college. Not to mention valuable networks—which a lot of research says is a lot more valuable in terms of jobs and pay. 

[bearrock]

6 minutes ago, tshile said:

 

You're a lawyer. You're in the same boat as me, though I'm in the boat because of my wife not me.

 

It'll be free but we'll make too much money so it'll just be a billion dollars for our children to go anywhere, and our taxes will be used to send other people's kids to school.

 

Don't worry, we'll be able to afford it. That's why it's fair.

 

 

 

I have an almost 9 year old, so when she's off to college, it will only cost half a billion.  So much win!

[brandymac27]

2 minutes ago, bearrock said:

 

I have an almost 9 year old, so when she's off to college, it will only cost half a billion.  So much win!

Thank God both of mine got scholarships. Their father isn't in their life, so im supporting both of them and myself on 47k a year. I wouldn't be able to help them if they wouldn't have gotten scholarships.