Let's All Get Behind Alex Smith! Or Not!! (M.E.T.) NO kirk talk---that goes in ATN forum

[BatteredFanSyndrome]

4 minutes ago, TD_washingtonredskins said:

I can certainly shut up about it, but I don't think I'm alone in thinking he hasn't done himself any favors. And, I also acknowledge that the team screwed this one up royally around mid-season 2015. 

I can't quite recall a scenario though where the team looks so bad for how the player left, plus the uncertainty of where it's going.  As an example, even for folks that don't think highly of Cousins as a player - the team paid him 44M and got 0 playoff appearances out of it.  So it's just a bad look no matter how you paint it.  I recall Antonio Pierce and Ryan Clark as two guys that felt disrespected by the Skins.  When they left, anything they had to say was considered due to them having bad blood although there was a lot of truth to what they had to say.  I don't think those scenarios were as bad as this one though, because they aren't quarterbacks and the coverage is even greater for them.  Both of those guys went on to winning organizations and won Super Bowls as well.

 

I think deep down even the most die-hard Redskins fans are nervous about where this goes.  Not because Cousins is a hall of famer, but because it's another opportunity for the team to look really bad and for things to get blown up all over again.

[TD_washingtonredskins]

@BatteredFanSyndrome to me that ship has sailed. We've already looked bad by letting it get to this point. I'm not letting the Redskins' role in this color my take on how Cousins is handling it himself. 

 

Pierce and Clark both left and felt disrespected. Big picture, I'd agree that this is worse because Cousins showed that he could be, at a minimum, a viable and long-term starting QB. But again, that has nothing to do with the things I'm annoyed about. 

 

Pierce may have gone to NY with a chip on his shoulder because he felt like he earned a spot over whatever FA we brought in. Same with Clark. But neither guy said that they weren't given a shot to lead. They did lead when they were here despite neither guy being anything special when joining the team. That, to me, is the primary difference. 

[Califan007 The Constipated]

2 hours ago, BatteredFanSyndrome said:

 

Yeah, it's a shame that Cousins admits that quarterbacks are human.  I know fans like to believe that all football players are gridiron cyborgs that only care about the team and fans they play for, but that's just not real life 99.9% of the time.

 

And where is Case Keenum today?  Playing for the Broncos.  Obviously he wasn't seen as the leader the team needed or he would still be there.  So I'm not sure how this is a great point.

 

1) Hmm...so you think every QB in the NFL lets possible personal financial ramifications dictate some decisions they make. Interesting. So I guess you also believe every QB in the NFL makes decisions to pad their stats instead of decisions to help the team win--as Desean Jackson allegedly claimed Cousins did during close games. Because Cousins' example he gave was of him padding his stats for financial gain. If what Jackson (and apparently one or two others) is reported to have said is accurate, then it was obvious from his teammates that Cousins was "being human"...and it bothered them. But thumbs up to Cousins for stepping up to the plate to admit it. I guess.

 

2) You have a strange definition of "leadership" if you think it's determined by whether or not you're resigned. If you were to ask any of the decisionmakers why they decided to not keep Keenum on as starter, I would guess "wasn't a leader" would never appear on any of their lists.

[Bang]

Pfah, once he's gone he's gone. If he wins, good on him, but how it makes us look..   I guess it's like this.. as a Redskins fan i have taken a lot of kicks over the last 25 years or so..  one more isn't going to be bothering me too much.

I took umbrage to that statement because it seems he is ignoring what Gruden did for him. His "given a platform for leadership" was also given to him here. His comments about his perception of only being seen as a 4th round pick who got benched seem to me to be very self absorbed, and not reflecting what opportunity he had.

 

~Bang

[TD_washingtonredskins]

1 minute ago, Califan007 said:

2) You have a strange definition of "leadership" if you think it's determined by whether or not you're resigned. If you were to ask any of the decisionmakers why they decided to not keep Keenum on as starter, I would guess "wasn't a leader" would never appear on any of their lists.

 

To that point, I guess Smith isn't a leader despite countless teammates expressing their respect for him as he walked out the door this past off-season. 

 

Great post...the Vikings replaced Keenum with Cousins because Kirk is a better QB, not because he's a better leader. 

[DJHJR86]

1 hour ago, Bang said:

This weekend he (paraphrasing) said that here in DC he never felt like anything except a 4th round pick, whereas in MN he has been given the role of leadership.

 

Another quote from that same article is totally getting ignored:

 

"A narrative developed that maybe the Redskins didn't support me as much as they could have, but I think I'm here because I was given an opportunity with the Redskins and I was well-supported," he says. "They compensated me more than I ever thought I would be compensated. I owe a great deal to them. I look back on those six years with a lot of joy, a lot of gratitude and think that we'll always view our time with the Redskins as very positive, especially when we think about where it led us in life, to a place that even on my best days I never thought was really possible."

[BatteredFanSyndrome]

3 minutes ago, TD_washingtonredskins said:

 

Pierce may have gone to NY with a chip on his shoulder because he felt like he earned a spot over whatever FA we brought in. Same with Clark. But neither guy said that they weren't given a shot to lead. They did lead when they were here despite neither guy being anything special when joining the team. That, to me, is the primary difference. 

I didn't mean to make it an apples to apples comparison.  I was just using them as examples of good players that left here salty.

 

I've never read anywhere where Cousins said he wasn't given a shot to lead.  He discussed some of the differences between being a veteran on a long term deal vs. being young, benched and then playing on 1 year deals.  This is the same stuff that many here talked about dating back to right after the 2015 season and what to do with Kirk.  That there are factors outside of 'is he worth the $' at play and what having a QB on a LTD does for the team.  I used the example of a lame duck coach before and I think it's fitting. 

[BatteredFanSyndrome]

11 minutes ago, Califan007 said:

 

1) Hmm...so you think every QB in the NFL lets possible personal financial ramifications dictate some decisions they make. Interesting. So I guess you also believe every QB in the NFL makes decisions to pad their stats instead of decisions to help the team win--as Desean Jackson allegedly claimed Cousins did during close games. Because Cousins' example he gave was of him padding his stats for financial gain. If what Jackson (and apparently one or two others) is reported to have said is accurate, then it was obvious from his teammates that Cousins was "being human"...and it bothered them. But thumbs up to Cousins for stepping up to the plate to admit it. I guess.

 

NFL teams watch tape, particularly before they write the type of checks that QB's regularly receive these days.  I think it's a bit ridiculous to assume that NFL GM's and Coaches are naïve enough to fall for 'stat padding' play when they have a guys entire portfolio at their disposal.  So basically what you are saying is Desean Jackson and others claimed is that Kirk was stat padding rather than trying to win games?  First of all, that stuff is news to me.  I thought it was rather clear that his basic people comments were directed to Griffin, unless its something else I somehow missed.  I saw DJax on First Take this past offseason and he had nothing but glowing remarks for Kirk.  Whatever the case may be, I give Kirk more credit than to think he's trying to outsmart GM's and coaches by playing it safe, costing his team wins in the process, for the sake of having stats that will get him paid.  If that's the case, he's a freaking genius.

 

Quote

2) You have a strange definition of "leadership" if you think it's determined by whether or not you're resigned. If you were to ask any of the decisionmakers why they decided to not keep Keenum on as starter, I would guess "wasn't a leader" would never appear on any of their lists.

 

My point was that if Case was such a great leader and that meant as much as you guys seem to think it does, I don't think the team would have moved on from him so easily.

[Bang]

27 minutes ago, DJHJR86 said:

 

Another quote from that same article is totally getting ignored:

 

"A narrative developed that maybe the Redskins didn't support me as much as they could have, but I think I'm here because I was given an opportunity with the Redskins and I was well-supported," he says. "They compensated me more than I ever thought I would be compensated. I owe a great deal to them. I look back on those six years with a lot of joy, a lot of gratitude and think that we'll always view our time with the Redskins as very positive, especially when we think about where it led us in life, to a place that even on my best days I never thought was really possible."

 

Seems rather contradictory to his later statement, to say the least.

 

~Bang

[Skinsinparadise]

3 hours ago, TD_washingtonredskins said:

 

OK, fair enough.

 

To the highlighted point above...I'm not blindly stating that Smith won't degrade some or will keep his running ability just because. My point is that he can degrade a little each year and still be an effective runner. He isn't going to go from where he is now to being immobile. Am I SURE OF THAT? Well, no. But is it based on logic due to the fact that guys don't physically fall off a cliff like that very often? Yes .

 

Yeah my only point at large is if we go past the hype my take is the same for EVERY QB as they enter their mid to late 30s (aside from the real special ones and while I like Alex I don't see him as special) -- just as it is for me as to RBs who enter their 30s -- to me its a wild card.  I don't have a negative or positive feel for what happens with Alex -- I just know if he slips in his late 30s, he would be far from being the first guy (and it would be 3 for 3 here if it happens as to 34 year olds in the fold), whether we are talking about arms or legs or both.   It's a wild card to me. that's all.  

 

 

[TD_washingtonredskins]

1 hour ago, DJHJR86 said:

 

Another quote from that same article is totally getting ignored:

 

"A narrative developed that maybe the Redskins didn't support me as much as they could have, but I think I'm here because I was given an opportunity with the Redskins and I was well-supported," he says. "They compensated me more than I ever thought I would be compensated. I owe a great deal to them. I look back on those six years with a lot of joy, a lot of gratitude and think that we'll always view our time with the Redskins as very positive, especially when we think about where it led us in life, to a place that even on my best days I never thought was really possible."

 

That's the quote that bothers me the most.

 

I don't know what it's called when you introduce a narrative into a discussion only to shoot it down and take the bullet publicly, but it seems like he's playing both sides here. 

 

"Some have said that I'm a hero for the way I've handled this crappy organization despite how they've treated me, but I don't see it that way."

 

Come on. 

[BatteredFanSyndrome]

16 minutes ago, TD_washingtonredskins said:

 

That's the quote that bothers me the most.

 

I don't know what it's called when you introduce a narrative into a discussion only to shoot it down and take the bullet publicly, but it seems like he's playing both sides here. 

 

"Some have said that I'm a hero for the way I've handled this crappy organization despite how they've treated me, but I don't see it that way."

 

Come on. 

I'm not sure how you've come to the conclusion that he introduced the narrative, there's nothing in the piece that mentions how it came up.  But the intro to that quote is:

 

Quote

Resentment toward the front office might be understandable, but Cousins isn't feeling that.

 

 

[TD_washingtonredskins]

9 minutes ago, BatteredFanSyndrome said:

I'm not sure how you've come to the conclusion that he introduced the narrative, there's nothing in the piece that mentions how it came up.  But the intro to that quote is:

 

 

 

 

I don't mean that he introduced it to the world, but he seems to have introduced into this conversation. He wasn't answering a question about it or else he wouldn't have started the sentence "there's a narrative about me being treated unfairly..."

 

Anyway, I can acknowledge that I'm coming off as a jilted lover here...but that's honestly not how I feel. I just feel he's being somewhat disingenuous throughout this process. 

[Skinsinparadise]

Following the Kirk saga like a soap opera last time obsessively -- I found the whole narrative entertaining albeit it wore me down at the end.  I think I can make an educated guess about what Kirk and his camp truly think since you have have about 8 sources or so (local combined with national) who weighed in on what Kirk was really thinking.

 

What he really was thinking was Bruce (and to a lesser extent Dan since Dan came around eventually) is a douce and incompetent.  The classless and clumsy way of how the RG3/Shanny drill, the Scot drill and Kirk's own contract is just how the franchise rolls -- and you can find more classy and better run franchises in the NFL.  He likes his teammates, the fans, the coach but he was constantly wrestling with the rest of things. 

 

The Redskins FO (maybe more specifically Bruce?) as Sheehan talked about today struggle to take the high road and love to leak just like in the BR article below stuff to damage whomever is leaving if they kicked that person out or that person wanting to leave them.

 

So the dilemma Kirk faces is this.  If you are telling people behind the scenes that Bruce is a douche as for how he deals with people especially as to leaks -- if Kirk slams him or the Redskins back in similar fashion than he comes off hypocritical.  So instead he bites his tongue and teases with some of his issues while at the same time covering the Redskins FO back, just like he did while he was here.

 

I always found the Kirk discussion tough to debate because it was polarized into extremes.  But in reality IMO human nature is more complex than that. There always seem to be a lot of moving parts in this story that converged.  There was a narrative that Kirk wanted to feel appreciated and was put off about how he was treated in 2016 in the negotiation.  I recall one reporter (maybe it was Peter King if I recall) who said he was put off by the Redskins first low ball offer which he got while he was in England.

 

I know from Cooley that Bruce likes to go low ball initially and see how it flies -- that's the impression he got from his own negotiation.   The idea that Kirk was extra sensitive because of what happen before it all -- seems plausible.  Shanny pretty much said that him believing in Kirk over RG3 led to his demise -- someway I'd guess that point wasn't lost on Kirk.   

 

You could say Kirk should just suck it up and deal with it.  But the irony of it is he didn't have to.  He could bet on himself on just ignore that noise.  So if Bruce is telling his agent that Kirk isn't worth it because of X,Y, Z -- he could just blow it off.  And obviously he did.  From Bruce's perspective (according to some beat guys), he's just trying to get the best deal for the team and he doesn't do more than 2 years of guaranteed money in big contracts -- that's his mantra within the FO so he wasn't going to let go of that for Kirk.   And for him telling Kirk's agent all the reasons why he's not worth what he's asking for is just rhetoric from him to get their asking offer down.

 

It's sort of like what people say about arbitration in baseball -- it feeds acrimony between the player and the team.    According to some beat guys, Bruce didn't factor any water under the bridge with Kirk and just hard balled him from the get go and didn't let go.  Kirk and his agent understood ultimately after 2016 but when he doubled down on that approach in early 2017 -- coupled with McVay leaving and Scot being kicked out in an ugly way -- that was the ball game.

 

https://bleacherreport.com/articles/2784360-84-million-man-cant-be-satisfied-kirk-cousins-is-keeping-his-underdog-mindset

This winter, according to league sources, some in the Redskins front office put the word out on Cousins with their friends in other organizations. Among the criticisms: He turned off some teammates. He stole "You like that!" from defensive backs. He isn't good enough to win games on his own. He protects himself too much. He's too worried about completion percentage. He isn't very effective in the red zone.

Cousins has heard the knocks. He shrugs.

[BatteredFanSyndrome]

Just now, TD_washingtonredskins said:

 

I don't mean that he introduced it to the world, but he seems to have introduced into this conversation. He wasn't answering a question about it or else he wouldn't have started the sentence "there's a narrative about me being treated unfairly..."

 

Anyway, I can acknowledge that I'm coming off as a jilted lover here...but that's honestly not how I feel. I just feel he's being somewhat disingenuous throughout this process. 

 

I just don't see how it makes sense for him to bring it up.  I'd imagine that's where the conversation was going as there are also gems in the piece about how the journalist has sources that say Washington's brass was smearing Cousins to anyone who would listen after they made the trade for Smith.

[TD_washingtonredskins]

9 minutes ago, BatteredFanSyndrome said:

 

I just don't see how it makes sense for him to bring it up.  I'd imagine that's where the conversation was going as there are also gems in the piece about how the journalist has sources that say Washington's brass was smearing Cousins to anyone who would listen after they made the trade for Smith.

 

You might be right...it's a guess on my part. 

[Skinsinparadise]

18 minutes ago, TD_washingtonredskins said:

 

I don't mean that he introduced it to the world, but he seems to have introduced into this conversation. He wasn't answering a question about it or else he wouldn't have started the sentence "there's a narrative about me being treated unfairly..."

 

Anyway, I can acknowledge that I'm coming off as a jilted lover here...but that's honestly not how I feel. I just feel he's being somewhat disingenuous throughout this process. 

 

The only disingenuous part that always came off to me about Kirk here is this -- he really really wants to say something negative about the FO and he has plenty of reasons to do it.  So Kirk just do it.   

 

I get the whole you don't fight fire with fire when it comes to douche behavior.  But I've heard so many times from so many different people covering the story that Kirk thinks Bruce is a douche and questions his competence.  I am sure part of that is spilled into why agents ranked Bruce as the least trustworthy GM in the league -- so instead of telling people behind the scenes what you think of him and how the organization in turn rolls -- just level the dude publicly.  The disingenuous part to me is when he throws a comment to have the FOs back -- and I gather that's maybe because he genuinely has mixed emotions about his experience here.  

 

The whole subplot of not being the guy initially is only relevant (again judging by sources close to the action) as an explanation for Kirk and his agent for why he was hard balled in the negotiation consistently - and that's their nicer version of what they really think according to some.  If the negotiation didn't get acrimonious then the past wouldn't have been relevant according to some.   But it did so that triggered the stuff from the past. 

 

It would be fun to see McCartney and or Kirk just take the gloves off RG3 style ironically.  But I don't think they will until they aren't doing business in the NFL anymore.   It doesn't really serve them to level the Redskins FO and it would be very counter productive for McCartney in particular.

 

[BatteredFanSyndrome]

Piggybacking on SIP's point, my only real issue with Kirk's message is that he won't tell it how it is.  As you can see by the way I post, I don't always travel the high road.  Sometimes words don't need to be minced and honesty is the best answer.  But at the same time, as someone that's been in leadership for a large corporation for over a decade - I do understand 'playing the game' so to speak and it seems that's what Kirk has been doing for a while now.

[HardcoreZorn]

4 hours ago, BatteredFanSyndrome said:

I'm curious how wondering why in the hell a team would trade the farm for a Heisman winner only to draft another QB in the 4th round equates to him believing he's arrived and should be THE GUY from the get go.  Go back in time and read this board the day this team drafted Kirk Cousins.  WTF's were abundant and for very good reason.  It seemed absolutely ridiculous.  The whole world knew the team was going all in on RG3, and the whole world was shocked when they drafted Kirk 3 rounds later.  It all ties back to the dysfunction we talk about around here that many of you don't believe exists or atleast doesn't anymore.  RG3 was obviously a Dan thing that both Shanahan and Bruce played into - so I'm not giving them a pass.  Kirk was basically Shanny's way of getting 'his guy'. 

I read this board for a very long time before joining, so yes, I do recall. I actually was one of the few at the time that understood the logic behind it. Once you get to the third day of the draft, it's just as likely you draft Keenan Robinson with your 4th round pick as Beshaud Breeland. Had we invested a second round pick after trading the farm, I too probably would have been furious. Because second rounders have a higher hit rate and that pick would have been better utilized to help build the team around Griffin. And second round QBs in theory are supposed to be the guy sooner than later. But spending a 4th rounder on a guy you had a second round grade on at the quarterback position should never be looked at through a negative lens in my opinion. Backup QB is one of the most important positions in the game and if he performs well in spot duty, all of a sudden you have a valuable trade chip.

 

The drafting and handling of Griffin was dysfunctional, but that was over 6 years ago. We are going on year 5 with the same coach, we are stockpiling and hitting on a high percentage of picks, we have extended some of our homegrown. We don't let Ryan Clarks and Antonio Pierces leave anymore in favor of bringing in other teams' players looking to cash in. I'm going to call a spade a spade. Griffin=Dysfunction. What's going on right now doesn't scream dysfunctional to me, but quite the opposite. We are building a really good team right now, and it has nothing to do with some blind allegiance to the Redskins and Dan/Bruce and they can do no wrong. On the whole, we are going about the process the right way and the state of the roster reflects that.

4 hours ago, BatteredFanSyndrome said:

 

There are numerous other scenarios Kirk could have been drafted into where he wasn't going to be THE GUY right away.  But if I'm a quarterback with anywhere from 2nd - 6th round grades on me, my hope would be to go to a team where I might actually get an opportunity to start at some point down the line, whether that's to a bad team without any QB in mind or to sit behind a veteran starter and learn the game.  I'd think my worst case scenario is getting drafted behind a Heisman winner that the team gave up the world for.  I honestly do not understand how you can see this any other way.

It's one thing to hope, and a completely different beast to openly question whether the team willing to give you a shot "really wants to do that." If you are a QB that gets drafted in the 4th round, that means every team in the league passed on you at least 3 times. You clearly aren't viewed around the league as anything more than a developmental backup. What is the worst case scenario getting drafted behind Griffin if you are Kirk? You sit 4 years under the tutelage of some really good offensive minds and then hit free agency at the age of 27? Aaron Rodgers sat 3 whole years before he had an opportunity to start and he was a first round pick. Instead of embracing the opportunity and being appreciative of the Washington Redskins giving him a chance, a chance that 31 other teams skipped over at least thrice, he came off like an entitled brat. Which is the same attitude that's carried all the way through his tenure in DC, and is validated further by his most recent comments. He comes off as extremely self-serving, and that's not the guy I want leading my team. I'm not sure how you can see this any other way, but that's whats great about a board like this. Different opinions leads to great dialogue and discussion about the team we all love.

4 hours ago, BatteredFanSyndrome said:

 

You can talk until your blue in the face about how horrible Bruce Allen isn't.  The fact is that's 80% of your posting history.  That said, if Kirk Cousins was never long for Washington - why on earth would his agent have offered the team a LTD after the 2015 season? 

That 80% of posting history you are referring to often times was an effort to explain a minority take. For example, I attempted to explain that there were many other factors that contributed to Kirk Cousins leaving. Some of which are coming to the surface right now. Unfortunately that take was extrapolated to mean that I loved Bruce Allen. And I grew frustrated that a lot of my points were completely ignored and dismissed because I wasn't toeing the company line and solely attributing Cousins leaving to Bruce Allen's suckage.

 

That 2015 deal was a hail mary attempt on their part that if we had agreed to, of course he would have taken it. He was a season removed from being benched for complete incompetence, and only had a half season's worth of really good games. 20M/year would have been looked at in a similar light to Osweiler receiving 18M. It just didn't seem prudent at the time to invest so much in a player with his inconsistency to date.

4 hours ago, BatteredFanSyndrome said:

 

 

I'm not here to tell you that Alex is a bad dude or that Andy Reid is a liar.  I'll just say that I think sports fans tend to invest entirely too much stock in what gets said publicly.  You are correct in that Alex was going to get a handsome contract and opportunity somewhere.  It's in print that the two destinations were Cleveland and Washington, with Cleveland not being willing to pony up to the extent Washington did on a LTD.  If I'm Alex - hell yeah I choose Jay Gruden and the Washington Redskins, even if the money is close.

So don't believe everything that is said publicly by players, but believe everything you read in the media? That seems like a shift in stance to fit a narrative. There were many more teams interested in acquiring Smith's services, I'm sure of that. Denver was another but pretty sure the report that came out was at least a half dozen teams were interested.The fact he chose Washington and wants to be here is a positive. Why do you feel the need to be so dismissive and twist it in a way that makes it sound as if it means nothing?

[BatteredFanSyndrome]

4 minutes ago, HardcoreZorn said:

What is the worst case scenario getting drafted behind Griffin if you are Kirk? You sit 4 years under the tutelage of some really good offensive minds and then hit free agency at the age of 27? Aaron Rodgers sat 3 whole years before he had an opportunity to start and he was a first round pick. Instead of embracing the opportunity and being appreciative of the Washington Redskins giving him a chance, a chance that 31 other teams skipped over at least thrice, he came off like an entitled brat. Which is the same attitude that's carried all the way through his tenure in DC, and is validated further by his most recent comments. He comes off as extremely self-serving, and that's not the guy I want leading my team. I'm not sure how you can see this any other way, but that's whats great about a board like this. Different opinions leads to great dialogue and discussion about the team we all love.

Are you of the belief that Aaron Rodgers was thrilled with where he landed and having to deal with the whole Favre situation?  What competitor wants to go sit for 3 or 4 years behind someone else that will literally provide no opportunity to play unless they get hurt?  You call that worst case scenario as if it doesn't suck.  God forbid he wasn't originally elated to go to the team that just traded the farm for the Heisman winner.  It's not like he showed up here and moped, Shanahan said all he did was work since the moment he showed up here.  So this whole narrative that he's an entitled brat that thinks he deserves to be handed things on a silver platter is a sad one, but oh so similar to plenty of guys that have departed Washington on not-so-friendly terms.

 

11 minutes ago, HardcoreZorn said:

So don't believe everything that is said publicly by players, but believe everything you read in the media? That seems like a shift in stance to fit a narrative. There were many more teams interested in acquiring Smith's services, I'm sure of that. Denver was another but pretty sure the report that came out was at least a half dozen teams were interested.The fact he chose Washington and wants to be here is a positive. Why do you feel the need to be so dismissive and twist it in a way that makes it sound as if it means nothing?

 

I clearly said that I'm not saying Alex is a bad dude or that Andy Reid is a liar.  But Andy saying a bunch of nice stuff about Alex after he ships him out for a nice draft pick and a heck of a player and Alex saying how happy he is to be here after signing the largest guaranteed deal of his life at age 33 doesn't strike me as a surprise in any way whatsoever.  I don't doubt that there were other teams interested in Smith.  But the two that really wanted to dance were Cleveland and Washington with Washington offering the most and I'm sure was also more appealing to Smith.  While you say I'm being dismissive, I'd say to you that you are overplaying it to feel better about it.  I'm not saying that Alex doesn't like it here or that everything Reid had to say is BS by any stretch.  Just that's typical stuff you should expect to hear anytime this stuff happens.

[Est.1974]

Kirk has always appeared self absorbed and up his own ass. He's not the worlds worst, but as time passes the under current of bitterness is still there. He better win in Minny or I think he'll buckle under the heat. Not that fussed either way to be fair. He got paid and he got his starter badge. Good luck to him.

 

More than happy we are now rolling forward with Alex Smith.

[The Hangman- C_Hanburger]

8 minutes ago, UK SKINS FAN '74 said:

Kirk has always appeared self absorbed and up his own ass. He's not the worlds worst, but as time passes the under current of bitterness is still there. He better win in Minny or I think he'll buckle under the heat. Not that fussed either way to be fair. He got paid and he got his starter badge. Good luck to him.

 

More than happy we are now rolling forward with Alex Smith.

Seems like if he were as smart as people claim, he would let sleeping dogs lay and let his play do the talking. Talking about not having leadership support as a Skin and NOW he feels he HAS leadership and support only puts more on his shoulders to prove he is deserving. And we all know how he reacts under pressure when a score is needed to win the game....just sayin

 

Glad he's gone..wanted him traded on 2016...THAT the FO did miss on.

[TD_washingtonredskins]

1 hour ago, UK SKINS FAN '74 said:

Kirk has always appeared self absorbed and up his own ass. He's not the worlds worst, but as time passes the under current of bitterness is still there.

 

Yep, and what makes it chafing to me is that he tries to come off as the complete opposite. It's transparent and overall looks even worse. Plenty of NFL players are self-absorbed, but most of them don't play the fake modesty card like Cousins continually does. 

 

Either be very good at the fake modesty thing or don't try it. 

[skinsfan66]

Yea he has got the old Grand Ma.'s Van thing going in minny too while he makes 28 mil a year.  Just remember how disappointed he was to be drafted by the Redskins.  Never seemed like he was really all here 100%.   Smith seems like the perfect play to replace him. 

[Skinsinparadise]

On 7/15/2018 at 10:28 PM, BatteredFanSyndrome said:

It’s this kind of stuff that makes it difficult to take some folks opinions on the subject seriously.

 

Personally, when I read that article, none of that ever struck me as disturbing in any way what so ever.  It’s pretty much human nature and ties into everything many here had been saying since the end of the 2015 season.  Perhaps SIP will travel that road with you guys, but I personally find it all exhausting and recognize that everyone has their feet dug in and aren’t budging with how they choose to feel about it.

 

For that article you can take whatever you want so its just going to harden people's beliefs.  The part about him not having to worry about money to me seems to be in the context of him having a fat 3 year contract and not having to worry about the year to year dance with the FO -- so he can relax and just play.   The dude gives away a lot of money to charity, fights human trafficking, adopts foster dogs.  I had my kids spend a weekend along with other kids in his QB camp years back.  I've run into him once at a hotel -- very nice guy, classy, my kids thought he was the coolest dude.  His dad is a reverend.   Others who have worked closely with him including Scot said he one of the nicest guys, all integrity type you'd meet in the game.  He said something similar about Alex if it makes some feel better? 

 

My point is the Kirk is a bad guy all about money narrative to me is 100% nonsense.  The dude who some say brushes his teeth with Coors Light and agents said is the most untrustworthy GM in the league and one of the least prepared and who the Tampa media called the Prince of Darkness -- yeah I am sure he was all class and sunshine and rainbows during the negotiation.  Kirk was the problem.  

 

There are zero revelations in the article to me.  And for people who might think I just cherry pick -- not at all -- when I hear multiple sources who I trust say the same thing even about someone I like -- I trust it.  For example I met Scot, thought he was a great guy but if people who have background on what was going on say he was a problem than I buy in -- so in the Scot/Bruce feud, I sided with Bruce.  But on the Bruce/Kirk stuff its all the same stuff -- and no its not flattering to Bruce and Kirk isn't pegged as the bad guy. 

 

The worst description relating to Kirk as for the behind the scenes reporting was that when Bruce did his hard ball negotiating -- Kirk's agent tactic was right back at you.  We can play hard ball, too.   But that's negotiation 101.  The underpinning of the story from multiple sources was Kirk and Bruce had a frosty relationship and neither was going to give in as the relationship got colder -- for Bruce he didn't want to be perceived as the loser of the negotiation -- from Kirk's stand point he thought Bruce was a douche and he didn't feel like he had to give in to someone he didn't like so if that meant his departure so be it.