2017 Comprehensive NFL Draft Thread

[PartyPosse]

1 hour ago, Morneblade said:

I'm lost here. What do you mean by best blocking back, and what does it have to do with running with a bad run blocking OL? Besides, the scouting report is that he is a terrible blocker.

Oops. I read his post wrong. For some reason it read like best blocking back to me. Not better blocking for back. My mistake.

 

ive also read conflictive reports regarding his protection. On one hand I've read what you read and also read he tends to go lower on legs rather than use his frame to protect. I've also read he's been the benefactor of a spread offense that doesn't require him to do much protecting. However, he didn't allow a sack or even a hit all year and even with the eye test he seems more than willing to keep his QB upright.

[Skinsinparadise]

1 hour ago, DC Lumber Co. said:

 

Jarrad Davis with a 38.5" vert and 129" broad jump. 4.55 40yd dash. Outstanding. He is in my opinion the safest ILB prospect in the entire draft. Very very high floor for him. Hope he didnt just jump his way out of the range of our 2nd round pick.

 

Teez Tabor with a 4.7 40. Good grief. However with his ties to our new DB coach he may have just made himself as a high-value selection if he slips due to speed-concerns. Or if he is actually that slow, he might be looking at a position switch?

 

Side note: I hope Dalvin Cook running a 4.4 flat at FSU's pro day just made him a lock to be selected before #17. It would push better prospects down to us and it would remove any temptation from Jay selecting him with his fumbling issues. 

 

Yeah I saw all of that.  Davis I talked about eons ago on this thread from the perspective of if you are looking for a London Fletcher type-leader, he seems to be the guy.    I like that Tabor is a Redskins fan and plays and talks with bravado but yeah his 4.6 and change combine numbers were bad enough, 4.7 might drop him into the third round.  Before the combine -- he was a first rounder in many mocks.

 

I have more mixed emotions about Dalvin Cook than any player.  I've watched him a bunch and he's insanely electric.  I think he'd be the best running back we've had since Portis.  But his off the field and fumbling issues make me pause.   Part of the reason why I like Kareem Hunt is his ball security has been fantastic.  Cook is far from the only guy with fumbling issues in this draft class.

 

All these guys apparently fumble more than they should:

http://www.cbssports.com/nfl/draft/news/2017-nfl-draft-which-running-backs-raise-red-flags-as-potential-fumblers/

Below Average (75-99)

• 99.7: James Conner, Pittsburgh
• 96.6: Tarik Cohen, North Carolina A&T
• 86.4: Corey Clement, Wisconsin
• 82.1: Leonard Fournette, LSU
• 81.0: Aaron Jones, UTEP
• 79.0: T.J. Logan, North Carolina
• 78.5: Elijah Hood, North Carolina

Red Flag (Worse than 75)

• 74.9: Jeremy McNichols, Boise State
• 74.3: D'Onta Foreman, Texas
• 73.0: Joe Mixon, Oklahoma
• 71.0: Alvin Kamara, Tennessee
• 69.8: Curtis Samuel, Ohio State
• 65.4: Taquan Mizzell, Virginia
• 63.8: Dalvin Cook, Florida State
• 57.7: Boom Williams, Kentucky
• 56.3: Justin Davis, USC
• 54.3: Marlon Mack, South Florida

[SkinsPassion4Life]

I keep forgetting that Torrian Gray was the DB coach at FLA. last year......inside info on Brantley, Davis, Tabor, Wilson and Maye.

 

I think Davis is now in play for us at #17...I would still rather trade down in that scenario.

[clskinsfan]

3 hours ago, UK SKINS FAN '74 said:

@clskinsfan later round pick of Taywan Taylor for me at WR. 

 

2 hours ago, Gibbs Hog Heaven said:

 

He'd be a great end of the third take. If you had him graded high there and there was a willing trade partner to drop back say 10 slots or so and pick up something else all the better. 

 

Hail. 

 

I rate Taylor as only a slot guy. He's shifty as hell. But has no experience running routes at all. He is going to be a project for someone. And we are set in the slot I think. Not saying he's a bad player. Just that he is going to take a lot of work to make it in the NFL IMO.

2 hours ago, Skinsinparadise said:

 

I don't mind going deeper in the draft.  My top guy would be like I said Kamara in the 2nd.   I doubt Mixon falls to the mid third round.  I think you have a shot at him in the 2nd, I'd be ok with taking him  I like Kareem Hunt a lot.  They'd probably need to take him in the third or 4th.   I like the elusive-good hands type running backs to complement or supplant Rob Kelly. 

 

What are your thoughts on Chris Thompson? He has that role right now and I think he is one of the better 3rd down backs in the league. 

[Gibbs Hog Heaven]

I'd disagree and say he's a darn good route runner. Leading the Nation in 40 plus yard catches the past two years is testament to that. Often in the right place on film. Although with his size he would seem best suited as a slot guy. 

 

But then if you're looking for a starter/ big contributor in the third round your football team is a mess and a poorly run/ built one. 

 

Late third would be great value pick for me. 

 

Hail. 

[Skinsinparadise]

4 minutes ago, clskinsfan said:

 

What are your thoughts on Chris Thompson? He has that role right now and I think he is one of the better 3rd down backs in the league. 

 

I like Chris Thompson but he doesn't seem to be able to take major punishment hence Jay seems to limit his reps.  Dalvin Cook and Kamara are bigger guys and aren't purely third down guys.  I like that Kamara could also be a dynamic punt returner.  I'd rather the Redskins not take a running back in the first.  But I admit I'd hate to see Cook land with the Eagles or Giants.  The dude can bounce off defenders like a ping pong ball, so I'd shudder to see how our defense fares against him.  I wouldn't mind going running back in round 2:  Kamara, Mixon, Foreman.

 

http://bleacherreport.com/articles/2695075-alvin-kamara-can-make-case-as-1st-round-draft-pick-at-2017-nfl-scouting-combine

With his three-down skill set, one scout I spoke to preferred him to bigger names in this draft class: 

"[Dalvin] Cook and [Christian] McCaffrey don't run with this kid's fight at the second level. And at least with his off-field, we know the reasons—he was immature and entitled and was a problem because he wasn't on the field. With Cook? Good luck."

One thing scouts love about Kamara is his limited wear and tear. He carried the ball only 103 times in 2016—that amounts to three games worth of Henry's load at Alabama his final season. That relative freshness compared to Leonard Fournette, Cook or McCaffrey has scouts liking the tires on Kamara's 5'10", 215-pound frame. 

[clskinsfan]

5 hours ago, DC Lumber Co. said:

 

Here is the post I made about McDowell I was referring to. Huge buyer beware, IMO. 

 

 

Yeah. I want nothing to do with Mcdowell. And its not just the off field stuff. His tape is just not that good IMO.

[Skinsinparadise]

11 minutes ago, clskinsfan said:

Yeah. I want nothing to do with Mcdowell. And its not just the off field stuff. His tape is just not that good IMO.

 

Me either.  But I suspect there is a good shot he might be the guy.   They seem to be leaving key holes on the D line.   And I know Scot was all over DTs in his prep and Jay doubled down in Chalk Talk according to the people there about it being a good draft for D line.  

 

McDowell seems to be a boom-bust guy that some team will take a chance on.   I hope its not the Redskins but if they are targeting D line with their first rounder, I can't imagine who else it would be?  I hope Bruce's BPA rhetoric is true.  Because otherwise this off season has smelled like they will draft some based on need. 

[nemocystem]

2 hours ago, Skinsinparadise said:

 

I just went through PFF metrics for what its worth. 

 

Elusive rating among the bigger names (making defenders miss tackles and yards after contact)

1. Dalvin Cook 137.4

2. Alvin Kamara 129.4

3.  Elijah Hood 117

4. Kareem Hunt 112.4

5.  Joe Mixon 95.5

6. Marlon Mack 93.4

7. Jamaal Williams 77.0

8. Christian Mccaffrey 73.8

9. Wayne Gallman  72.1

10. D'Onta Foreman 69.6

 

Pass Blocking (just the bigger names)

1. D'Onta Foreman 100

2. Joe Mixon 98.4

3. Jerry McNichols 97.1

4. Elijah Hood 97

5. Marlon Mack 96.9

6. Leonard Fournette 96.8

7. Jamaal Williams 96.3

8. Kareem Hunt 96.2

9. Samaje Perine 95.8

10. Wayne Gallman 95.5

 

 

 

 

 

I would be curious as to how those numbers correlate with NFL success.

 

McCaffrey doesn't score massively on some more traditional RB metrics...but i think this omits most of what makes him great, & special in today's NFL compared to others.  Just 1 such example.

 

& i like PFF.

[Skinsinparadise]

24 minutes ago, nemocystem said:

I would be curious as to how those numbers correlate with NFL success.

 

McCaffrey doesn't score massively on some more traditional RB metrics...but i think this omits most of what makes him great, & special in today's NFL compared to others.  Just 1 such example.

 

& i like PFF.

 

It's a good point and I don't live or die with their rankings, the ones I posted are for just two categories.   Their aggregate rankings on the running backs are:

 

1. Dalvin Cook

2. Leonard Fournette

3. Christian McCaffrey

4. Alvin Kamara

5. Kareem Hunt

6. Joe Mixon

7. Curtis Samuel

8. D'Onte Foreman

9. Samaje Perine

10. James Conner

[chaught76]

If we got James Conner in the 4th or 5th, I'd be thrilled.  Not Portis, but maybe a Stephen Davis type back.

[nemocystem]

I'd say those rankings are fair...but i wonder how much fumbles factor in?

 

They put Cook in Rd 2 for me.  I'd take 3 RBs before Cook, & have a debate about Mixon vs Cook.  Kamara would be a stretch...but that's how much i hate fumbles.

 

Also......we both need to change our profile pics, lol.  They are depressing.

[clskinsfan]

Ha. Playing with Firstpick and I would take these first 5 picks!

 

Round 1 Pick 17: Jamal Adams, SS, LSU (A+)
Round 2 Pick 17: Takkarist McKinley, OLB/DE, UCLA (A)
Round 3 Pick 17: Dalvin Tomlinson, DT, Alabama (B)
Round 4 Pick 7: ArDarius Stewart, WR, Alabama (A+)
Round 4 Pick 17: Kareem Hunt, RB, Toledo (A)

[Koolblue13]

I wonder how far McDowell could slip.

[Skinsinparadise]

2 hours ago, clskinsfan said:

Ha. Playing with Firstpick and I would take these first 5 picks!

 

Round 1 Pick 17: Jamal Adams, SS, LSU (A+)
Round 2 Pick 17: Takkarist McKinley, OLB/DE, UCLA (A)
Round 3 Pick 17: Dalvin Tomlinson, DT, Alabama (B)
Round 4 Pick 7: ArDarius Stewart, WR, Alabama (A+)
Round 4 Pick 17: Kareem Hunt, RB, Toledo (A)

 

If only we were that lucky, insanely nice haul.  Adams is likely a top 5 pick.

 

I was just watching Jay's conference with the press, it was aired live on CSN's web site.  He talked for about 45 minutes.   Personnel/draft related stuff:

 

1.  He said Tomsula assured him he can figure it out at NT.  Tomsula has figured things out in the past without the benefit of having a high pick at the position.

 

2.  He seemed sincere in being a big Rob Kelley guy, talked up Thompson and Mack, too.

 

3.  He's hyped about Swearinger.  He thinks he can do everything at safety including cover.  He said he's just full of personality and energy.  Idolizes Sean Taylor. 

 

4.  He more or less said they are going BPA.  He admitted Scot's work has a major influence on this draft.

 

5.  He admitted Calais Campbell was a top target but hopes that adding two guys to the D line is as good or better than having Calais, he thinks McClain is emerging.

 

6.  he thinks Lanier could be really good. he's very athletic, he was tough for the O line to stop in practice.

 

7.  he thinks the O line is great.  And as for WR -- plenty of weapons on the team.

 

If I had to summarize a takeaway, I am back to them likely not drafting RB.  That seems to be consistent with Jay's chalk talk that people have posted about. Ditto leaving TE and WR alone in the draft.  Gives the vibe that they go BPA perhaps in the draft but going almost exclusively defense in that regard.  

 

Edit:  I'd have to listen to the NT part again but the impression I got from it was Tomsula can pull it off, he's not stressed about it.

 

[Gibbs Hog Heaven]

5 minutes ago, Koolblue13 said:

I wonder how far McDowell could slip.

 

If he slipped past 17 I'd be shocked. 

 

Hail. 

[Morneblade]

This is what I ended up with

 

Round 1 Pick 17: Zach Cunningham, OLB/ILB, Vanderbilt (B-)
Round 2 Pick 17: Caleb Brantley, DT, Florida (A)
Round 3 Pick 17: Dalvin Tomlinson, DT, Alabama (C)
Round 4 Pick 7: Sidney Jones, CB, Washington (A+)
Round 4 Pick 17: Daeshon Hall, DE, Texas A&M (B-)
Round 5 Pick 10: Josh Malone, WR, Tennessee (B)
Round 6 Pick 17: Aarion Penton, CB, Missouri (C-)
Round 6 Pick 25: Jeremiah Ledbetter, DT, Arkansas (D+)
Round 7 Pick 2: Aaron Jones, RB, Texas-El Paso (A-)
Round 7 Pick 17: D.J. Jones, DT, Ole Miss (D-)

[JamesMadisonSkins]

I read through Jay's presser tweets and if he's being transparent I would agree that they are happy with the offense as is. Wouldn't surprise me if they grab a guard early or a Guard/Center hybrid like Pocic in the 3rd or 4th. 

 

His comment about the ofdense running through Reed does make me wonder if we are going to take a TE since it's so loaded this year. Someone like Jake Butt maybe in the 3rd? He'll miss the year with the injury but could slide into TE2 behind Reed and take over from Vernon eventually. A "nice to have to groom" kind of pick. True BPA.

 

still think we end up with 2 DL ... combination of an 1st or 2nd with a 4th or 5th who's more of a NT type. Team does seem realllly high on Lanier and I am too. Could be a big reason they are more comfortable with the DL than we are. If Lanier becomes Baker over the next 2-3 years it'll boost the line overall. 

 

I think we should expect Swearinger to be our FS. He finally put it all together last year. Would think we could spend an earlier pick on a nickel CB who could also play FS. Maybe even as early as Budda. 

I really hope Jonathan Allen falls. He won't. But if he did, I'd pair him with someone like Vanderdoes or Ts'u whatever is name is from USC in the 5th and be thrilled. 

[Skinsinparadise]

1 hour ago, JamesMadisonSkins said:

I read through Jay's presser tweets and if he's being transparent I would agree that they are happy with the offense as is. Wouldn't surprise me if they grab a guard early or a Guard/Center hybrid like Pocic in the 3rd or 4th. 

 

His comment about the ofdense running through Reed does make me wonder if we are going to take a TE since it's so loaded this year. Someone like Jake Butt maybe in the 3rd? He'll miss the year with the injury but could slide into TE2 behind Reed and take over from Vernon eventually. A "nice to have to groom" kind of pick. True BPA.

 

 

One of the recaps of Jay's Chalk Talk I recall had a recount that Jay thought they can use help at a lot of positions, then he ran off a list of the positions and included every position except TE and OL.   But I agree that they can use a backup center.  I wonder though about TE, they still have Carrier, they still have Paul.  I agree its a deep TE draft but considering all the other needs, I'd be surprised if they took one.  I just looked at the list of their combine meetings, don't see a TE in that mix.

 

Reviewing their combine meetings(acknowledging meetings don't always translate into something) 

They met with Josh Tupou who would be a later round type at nose tackle.

http://www.nfl.com/draft/2017/profiles/josh-tupou?id=2557956

 

[JamesMadisonSkins]

Valid point correcting me on TE. But with the BPA/McCloughan approach (Jay did say they were on the same page) ... Carrier is on a vet deal, Paul is solid when healthy but on an expensive contract, Davis is older and Reed is injury prone. Drafting a TE early would make both Carrier and Paul expendable (probably keep Paul around). Someone like Jake Butt in the 3rd IF he's still there could make sense since he'll likely spend the year on the IR. 

 

I just like Ethan Pocic because he can play anywhere on the OL. I like the guys who can play multiple spots. Makes for a versatile line when injuries crop up. Pocic can compete with Lauvao and Kiandjiao for LG but also slide into OC if Long were to get hurt. 

 

If we drafted a McDowell/Brantley/ and especially a Jonathan Allen in the 1st or 2nd and get a NT type in the 4-6 I'm fine with our DL. Players take time to develop and having two young guys with promise in Lanier and Ionidis from McCloughan gives me some hope. Those 2 + the Mc FAs and 2 DPs + Hood and Golston as vets in camp would be a solid group. 

[Morneblade]

3 minutes ago, JamesMadisonSkins said:

 

If we drafted Ted a McDowell/Brantley/ and especially a Jonathan Allen in the 1st or 2nd and get a NT type in the 4-6 I'm fine with our DL. Players take time to develop and having two young guys with promise in Lanier and Ionidis from McCloughan gives me some hope. Those 2 + the Mc FAs and 2 DPs + Hood and Golston as vets in camp would be a solid group. 

 

 

Just a heads up, Golston was not resigned. At NT currently we have Phil Taylor and A.J. Francis

[Skinsinparadise]

7 minutes ago, JamesMadisonSkins said:

Valid point correcting me on TE. But with the BPA/McCloughan approach (Jay did say they were on the same page) ... Carrier is on a vet deal, Paul is solid when healthy but on an expensive contract, Davis is older and Reed is injury prone. Drafting a TE early would make both Carrier and Paul expendable (probably keep Paul around). Someone like Jake Butt in the 3rd IF he's still there could make sense since he'll likely spend the year on the IR. 

 

 

Sure, I get the logic on TE.  Just wondering if it was a Freudian slip on Jay's end when he ran through every position but OL and TE.   And while they did meet with players across the board position wise at the combine, struck me that they didn't meet with a single TE.    I don't think its that uncommon also to have a BPA approach while omitting a position or two if they think they are loaded there and have a myriad of others needs.  Having said that you never know.  Just trying to read the tea leaves for my own amusement.    Running back is a hard one for me to get a read on.  I just watched another interview from Jay where he was asked about Dalvin Cook and Ed McCaffrey and he lit up talking about how both can bring so much to the passing game versus being strictly running backs.  

[JamesMadisonSkins]

Having watched a ton of David Johnson and Lev Bell the last few years for fantasy purposes, I've got to say I'm extremely intrigued by the simple fact that Joe Mixon is being comped to those 2. I will be targeting the hell out of Mixon this year in FF but I'd love to have that versatility on our team, off the field issues aside. 

[Conn]

It's possible that due to the deep TE draft, after teams see their rookie haul, some decent vet TEs hit the market. I don't want to pay much for anyone but we could probably do better than Paul/Carrier for depth purposes if a more well-rounded guy becomes available. 

[SkinsPassion4Life]

Watched the Gruden presser.....I don't understand his love affair with Grant....Rob Kelley is not a big time RB.....this O-Line is not great...I really wish he would stop hyping these 3 things.

 

I got the sense we would strongly consider Cook or McCaffrey....He mentioned "special backs" available that are hard to pass up.

 

We should def. look at a TE who can block.....Jake Butt in the 3rd or 4th round would be a great pick.

 

NT in rounds 5-7 is likely....I'd go with Stevie T.