Improvement of last years 2010 defense possible for offense next year, or too drastic?

Skins finished last year 31st in defense and with 29 sacks. So far this year the team is 11th in total defense and has 33 sacks.

Now, I know there are a still a bunch of games left and the defense can tank, but even if that happens we can say the defense did improve because I doubt if they tank it will drop them into the 20's.

so, with that being said, can the offense make this kind of jump? are we talking apples and oranges because any offensive improvement will be tied to a QB other than Rex, and even then it depends if it is a pro ready rookie like Dalton or a solid veteran pick up like Hasselback?

I know that coming into this year, despite the pick up of Kerrigan, I did not expect our Def to take a huge jump in stats like it did this year. just gives me hope that with a healthy o-line, another good draft, a 3rd year in Junior's system and a seasoned Helu and Hankerson that we can expect some good things next year, even if we don't get that Vet or a RGIII.

Yes, it's entirely possible and I think that was the plan all along.

It's easier to build the defense first, because you have a better chance of winning a game 24-20 than you do trying to outscore guys with rookies.

I think this team will be much improved next year with a couple of linemen, a quarterback, and hopefully some depth. We can also address the "big play" wide reciever in Free Agency next season.

Yes it could. By adding the right pieces. I think our WR corp. is better than people realize .... Hankerson, Moss, Gaffney is a legit trio ... throw in Anthony Armstrong and another young wr, whether it is Paul or Austin or a player to be named and it is a solid group. Need to resign Fred Davis.

RB is looking bright with Roy Helu and potentially Royster.

Of course, those are the easier positions to fill .... o-line has to get right and of course we need a qb. End of the day, it all hinges on the signal caller.

The main improvement with the defense is actually getting pieces that fit, rather than trying to fit square pegs into round holes. That being said, I don't think the improvement is THAT dramatic, going from mediocre to solid. Course, I had said before the season that the defense was probably going to be near top 10 in yardage.

As for the offense, similar improvement can come if we figure out how to fix the OL, which is the real weakness on this team right now. If you can run the ball and protect the QB, good things generally happen on offense.

I honestly think the offense is two years away. There are just too many holes to fill. Two offensive linemen are needed as well as another WR. Moss' age is showing he is no longer the threat that draws double teams the entire game and that is this year next year will be another year and another 1/4 of a step lost so unless Hankerson improves enough to be a true #1 guy the Skins might actually need 2 WR's. Then of course the QB. I just do not see a likely scenario where all of those holes are filled with players who can produce starting game one. Now I agree that I could be called pessimist (I would say realist but that is a different thing) but I just think the offense is far worse off this year than the defense was last year. Last year there was a major change in scheme for the D and as others have said the Skins were trying to put square pegs in round holes so filling the holes was not as difficult they just needed some round pegs. Finally let us not forget that the Skins really need another CB. I love Barnes but he is really more of a #4 CB than a #3 and Wilson is a #2/#3 not a straight #2. Again too many holes to fill in one year. Yes I think the offense will be improved next year (let us face it there is little room to get worse) but I just do not see a way for it to become a playoff caliber offense.

The main improvement with the defense is actually getting pieces that fit, rather than trying to fit square pegs into round holes. That being said, I don't think the improvement is THAT dramatic, going from mediocre to solid. Course, I had said before the season that the defense was probably going to be near top 10 in yardage.

As for the offense, similar improvement can come if we figure out how to fix the OL, which is the real weakness on this team right now. If you can run the ball and protect the QB, good things generally happen on offense.

Agree with you here. Getting an upgrade at RT and a guard will make a huge difference to this offence. I think unless somethIng strange happens we take a QB high but addressing the OLine is the most important upgrade on offense we can make after we take that QB.

Sure, it's possible for the offense to make such strides, but obviously many things have to fall into place for that to happen.

For me personally on offense:

* I don't like Chris Chester or Brown and I'm not sure if anything can or will be done (if they even think it's a problem, which I obviously have no clue)

* I'd love to get RB like Michael Bush to compliment Helu (Chris Ivory perhaps if he's healthy)

* #1 WR and IMO no better one out there than Bowe

Defense:

*We're leading the league in sacks I believe which is awesome.

* I don't like Atogwe and want a playmaker with speed and range at FS

* Our run defense still needs work IMO

Course, I had said before the season that the defense was probably going to be near top 10 in yardage. As for the offense, similar improvement can come if we figure out how to fix the OL, which is the real weakness on this team right now. If you can run the ball and protect the QB, good things generally happen on offense.

wow great call on the D ...

so we get a "serviceable" rookie or vet qb that has a "servicable" season (i.e. ponder, hasselback) and we address let's say the right side of the line, we could see an offense score 21 points game and maybe put up 330 or so yards a game, which should about middle of the pack to a little better?

Just go Barkley/Jones (Havent decided whos the better fit yet)

And then Jeff Fuller WR A+M or rates out at an 88 on ESPN

That solidifies are offense

Then load up on Oline in the 3rd and 4th

Are we really an 11th quality D?

I mean we've improved a whole bunch, particularly up front. The points allowed total is great, and the sacks and forced fumbles is fantastic. But they still have a propensity to give up the big run at inopportune times; and the back end has been exposed badly on numerous occasions this year. And for an attacking 34 D, 8 INT's through 11 games is a pretty paltry number.

Now a lot has to do with the amount of time their on the field down to a near non-existent O; and a one dimensional DC who doesn't know how to be inventive in his scheme, or fully utilize the guys at his disposal; but I think the 11th ranking is a little misleading to just where their currently at as a group.

Hail.

Are we really an 11th quality D?

yes man ... that is what kind of spurned me to start this, i mean, from 31st to 11? Longshot, you said the skins were a mediorce D last year, i thoguht that was totally understated, i mean they were one spot away from the worst.

thus, the crux of my question ... from 2011 to 2012, can the O make the same dramatic improvement (with one or two free agent signings, and a good draft), similiar to what the D made from 2010 to 2011.

or are way to far away, or is the improvement tied to much to who is playing QB??

No defense is perfect, GHH, and there are only three or four each year who are truly stellar and fairly consistent. If, instead of saying that we are definitively the 11th best defense, I said that the D resided somewhere in the top 30-50% of the league would you agree with me?

Yeah, I appreciate the overall rankings have us 11th, but in reality are we really that far ahead as a group on defense?

I personally think that rankings a little misleading and they still have a ways to go make the leap into the top 10.

Hail.

*Edit* Oh, definitely in the top half of the league EA. They've improved a heck of a lot. Just not quite on the level the ranking suggests when you isolate it as "we're the 11th ranked D in the NFL.'

Wow! What a vast array of opinions on where and who we should draft. QB, WR, S, O-line and even RB. I definitely think we need to draft a QB for the future. Then we need to address the O-line in the 2nd - 4th rounds then the rest to be filled with whatever is needed. Drafting O-line in the late rounds never yields the number of starters or potential starters needed to fill out a roster. We need high quality O-linemen that can play now and compliment Williams, Chester, and Montgomery. Lichtenstieger is good but I think we need someone to replace Brown and add some quality depth behind the starters so if anyone of them go down they can step in and play. I think we are set at RB and WR but we can always use better talent there also. But the main thing is to get that quality QB that will be here for a while.

the chance is definitely in our favor. Its not like we need a ton of pieces to improve. Bulster the Right side of the Oline, draft a QB, address 1 or 2 WRs via FA or the draft and we should be ok.

I think we are set at RB and WR but we can always use better talent there also. But the main thing is to get that quality QB that will be here for a while.

wow, really? i mean, don't get me wrong, I am thinking the same thing, it is just kind of amazing that we can even entertain that. i guess, Gaffney has something to do with that? hankerson is still a question mark.

we get a trustworthy qb, not even a good or great one, but a trustworthy, that can keep our D off the field, we could make strides like the bengals and titans did this year.

I'd like to know just how important/ how much of an effect Rex's knowledge of the system comes into play. It's hard to gauge when he's throwing picks all the time. Otherwise, guys are getting WIDE open and he's getting them the ball.

We want a new guy because Rex pisses us off with bad picks, but it's not like a rookie isn't going to throw a bunch. Not to mention a possible dropoff because the new guy doesn't know the whole system.

What I'm saying is, don't **** your pants if Rex continues to start next year based solely on his experience in the system, for whatever it's worth.

I think the defense has done very well for what the offense has or better yet has NOT done. And ST's. too mant 3 and outs too many INTs etc.TOP does matter.

the answer is yes - we can put up 20 + a game with Rex right now and the drive/points killing turnovers. We bring in someone that can do that but doesn't have the "F It, I'm going deep" mentality then we can easily be a legit contender offensively. Our running game will come along - Shanahan needs to stick with 1 back for rhythm and keep playing off the playaction and we'll be perfectly fine.

I would like to see a big body receiver but hopefully Hankerson can fill that role if we don't address it in the offseason.

I think we will focus on offense but basically looking at our needs this is what I would like to see that would make us competitive and young.

Draft: 1st rd:QB 2nd rd: T 3rd rd: G 4th rd: ILB 5th rd: G, DB 6th rd: C 7th rd:DE

Sign: Michael Bush or resign Hightower, Sign Bowe/Colston/V.Jackson/Manningham/Stevey Johnson. Sign Vet LG if Kory. doesnt recover

Release: Armstrong, Torain, Sellers, Mcintosh, Do something about CB maybe release Hall and replace him

It's a well known fact, floated by Mike Shanahan himself, that they focused a ton on defense last year. This year is reserved for offense. I'd look for a good mix of FA and draftees to solidify that side of the ball.

In other words, Hail Yeah, it can be done.

sure it can be done, but i dont expect quite a jump as our defense had, because i never really thought our defense was that bad. we always had a lot of talent there, and despite being ranked very poorly last year, we still generated more turnovers in 10' than we did in 09'. so with year 2 of our 3-4 scheme i expected us to have a good defense before the season started.

as for our offense, it will probably get better. let's face it, our offense has been so bad this year that almost anything will be an improvement. if our rookie qb picks up things quickly, then we'll be in the top 10 range, but id venture a guess that we'll be average to below average on offense (but trending upward) by the end of next year. we just dont have the talent that our defense has to make a huge jump, and the most important player to establishing a good offense, will be a rookie.

i am expecting a offense oriented draft, but i dont think we'll see a big jump in terms of offensive improvement until 2013.

And what everyone forgets about the O is that the only two starters who have not missed multiple games are Gaffney and Chester. Injuries and illness have really hurt any chance for the O to be consistant. Add better players next year to the experience everyone has gotten this year will really help next year.

Are we really an 11th quality D?

I mean we've improved a whole bunch, particularly up front. The points allowed total is great, and the sacks and forced fumbles is fantastic. But they still have a propensity to give up the big run at inopportune times; and the back end has been exposed badly on numerous occasions this year. And for an attacking 34 D, 8 INT's through 11 games is a pretty paltry number.

Now a lot has to do with the amount of time their on the field down to a near non-existent O; and a one dimensional DC who doesn't know how to be inventive in his scheme, or fully utilize the guys at his disposal; but I think the 11th ranking is a little misleading to just where their currently at as a group.

Hail.

Yes, we are 11th.

There are a couple of things to critisize on the defense: They give up big plays on 3rd down too often, and they don't take the ball away enough.

BUT. When you figure HOW MUCH they are on the field because of HOW BAD the offense is, it's pretty remarkable that they are ranked as high as they are. Generally, when you have that many defensive snaps, bad things can happen, and often do. The more time the defense is on the field, the more chances they have to give up points.

The offense and defensive rankings often work in conjunction with one another. If the offense could control the ball and score more points, then the defense probably goes up a few notches because they are on the field less, and probably play from ahead a bit more. When you're ahead, the opponent can force balls, leading to turnovers.

Now, to answer the question whether or not the offense can make the same leap: Yes. They can. They don't really NEED anything at WR, TE and RB. They have depth and some play makers there.

What they NEED is OL depth, and maybe an upgrade or two to a starter.

And obviously a QB. Now here's the tricky part. MOST rookie QBs struggle and lose a lot of games by making rookie mistakes. So, if the 'Skins get one of the big 3 or 4 QBs, will they actually be better? It's unclear. If they upgrade the OL, then they should be able to at least run the ball better. But the QB play might be as spotty. Or maybe not. Some rookies hook on right away. Peyton Manning threw something like 22 INTs his rookie year, and the colts went 6-10. The next year, they went 12-4, or something like that. Ben Rothlisburger went 15-1 in his rookie campaign. Aaron Rogers didn't start for three years. It's really a crap shoot with QBs as to how well they do, and how long they take to "get it."

the chance is definitely in our favor. Its not like we need a ton of pieces to improve. Bulster the Right side of the Oline, draft a QB, address 1 or 2 WRs via FA or the draft and we should be ok.

I don't think they need to address the WR. Hankerson, Moss, Gaffney, Armstrong, Paul, Austin, etc. are good enough to win with. They have speed, size, and experience. Toss in Davis (They will re-sign him, I'm guessing), maybe Cooley (they might trade him), and Helu receiving out of the backfield, and the skill positions are better than they have been in ages.

The OL is a mess. They need to upgrade at least RT. The starters are all "ok" but they could be better at Center. KL is ok at LG, he really knows what he needs to do. But they could upgrade there as well.

And what everyone forgets about the O is that the only two starters who have not missed multiple games are Gaffney and Chester. Injuries and illness have really hurt any chance for the O to be consistant. Add better players next year to the experience everyone has gotten this year will really help next year.

It's true, there are a lot of injuries, which actually isn't half bad for a rebuilding team. Forces the young guys in to get experience.

This is main reason I'm putting up with Shallen. I was pissed when they blew up our 4-3, but that's what they we're brought here to do. Blow up this team. Going into the Miami game, there wasn't a single player starting that was a starter under Zorn. I would compare this years offense to last years defense as well. And with another good draft and free agent targeting to address needs on offense, it will get better. These guys know what they're doing, they are proving it, week in and week out...

Keep in mind that Hankerson is coming back next year, and both him and Helu are rookies