Poll: Dan Snyder -- Is he a good owner or a bad owner?

[richard saunders]

Originally posted by MRMADD

Uhhh... learned from his mistakes? Dan Snyder hasn't learned a damn thing. He's made new and innovative mistakes every year. Here's one from way back in the Spring of THIS YEAR:

Coles said that he knew that things reached the point of no return two weeks ago after a phone conversation with Snyder, who, Coles said, threatened to make life miserable for him if the team was forced to bring him back. Coles said that Snyder was angry that the wideout had initially caused the trade with the Jets for Moss to collapse on Feb. 26 by demanding a contract extension.

"He said: 'If you come back here, you'll never play again,' " Coles recalled, adding that Snyder promised to send him a flat-screen TV on which to watch games. " 'We'll bench you for two years then we'll cut you.' He said: 'If you come back, we'll torture you.' "

"Once he was threatening me, I said to myself: 'Man, I know I have to leave.' I knew I couldn't come back because of the way they handled it."

Come on, you know that Coles had already made his mind up. Why don't you quote Coles leaving the Park in Jan.?

Snyder had a right to be angry. The Redskins paid Coles top dollar for him to play here...how does Coles repay the Skins? By acting like a spoiled and disgruntled baby. You don't want to be here fine, we'll trade you back to your beloved Pennington .......But wait, you want another contract too? Go screw yourself.

Don't give me the crap about Coles having the right to be upset because our offense was so putrid... Look at Portis. He wasn't happy either, so how does he react? By stepping into the offseason plans and acting like the leader that he's PAID to be.

[Art]

Madd, to suggest Snyder hasn't learned from his mistakes by putting up that Coles story would presume it WAS a mistake at all. I suspect a high number of fans would find that to be a rather POSITIVE, good move by the owner of the team in support of his coaching staff.

As pointed out in this thread, Snyder was credited for the move to bring Coles in. Had he an ego, he'd never have accepted Gibbs wanting to make a change. Instead, he simply deferred to his football people and made sure the player knew he couldn't gain support from ownership in the discussion.

I would like to thank you for bringing up what is unquestionably considered one of the most evident examples of Snyder's growth as an owner here.

[Taylor 36]

Originally posted by MRMADD

Uhhh... learned from his mistakes? Dan Snyder hasn't learned a damn thing. He's made new and innovative mistakes every year. Here's one from way back in the Spring of THIS YEAR:

Coles said that he knew that things reached the point of no return two weeks ago after a phone conversation with Snyder, who, Coles said, threatened to make life miserable for him if the team was forced to bring him back. Coles said that Snyder was angry that the wideout had initially caused the trade with the Jets for Moss to collapse on Feb. 26 by demanding a contract extension.

"He said: 'If you come back here, you'll never play again,' " Coles recalled, adding that Snyder promised to send him a flat-screen TV on which to watch games. " 'We'll bench you for two years then we'll cut you.' He said: 'If you come back, we'll torture you.' "

"Once he was threatening me, I said to myself: 'Man, I know I have to leave.' I knew I couldn't come back because of the way they handled it."

:doh: You can't be serious, can you? It is now a mistake for an owner to not let a disgruntled player take down the team?

[Reilly]

The guy is a tool, plain and simple. I'm an old man; I've been around the block; met all kinds. Nothing is new under the sun to me. The short man is a tool, plain and simple. Wish it weren't so, but 'tis. I do appreciate that he loves the Skins. Doesn't excuse the fact that he's a tool.

[Bigkatt]

Originally posted by Reilly

The guy is a tool, plain and simple. I'm an old man; I've been around the block; met all kinds. Nothing is new under the sun to me. The short man is a tool, plain and simple. Wish it weren't so, but 'tis. I do appreciate that he loves the Skins. Doesn't excuse the fact that he's a tool.

That doesn't make sense on any level. The tool is you!

[TK]

Originally posted by Reilly

The guy is a tool, plain and simple. I'm an old man; I've been around the block; met all kinds. Nothing is new under the sun to me. The short man is a tool, plain and simple. Wish it weren't so, but 'tis. I do appreciate that he loves the Skins. Doesn't excuse the fact that he's a tool.

I'd ask you to clarify your statement & ask how an old man that's been around the block says something makes it a fact, but I've a feeling that might be to much for you & nonsensical driveby.

[Die Hard]

Originally posted by Reilly

The guy is a tool, plain and simple. I'm an old man; I've been around the block; met all kinds. Nothing is new under the sun to me. The short man is a tool, plain and simple. Wish it weren't so, but 'tis. I do appreciate that he loves the Skins. Doesn't excuse the fact that he's a tool.

Really.. if you want to add something to the discussion... then please do so.

Otherwise, you really haven't added much to the discussion... other than the fact that you've displayed the ability to come to a conclusion (ie. opinion) without any tangible knowledge.

In which case, you were better off not posting at all.

[Art]

Originally posted by Reilly

The guy is a tool, plain and simple. I'm an old man; I've been around the block; met all kinds. Nothing is new under the sun to me. The short man is a tool, plain and simple. Wish it weren't so, but 'tis. I do appreciate that he loves the Skins. Doesn't excuse the fact that he's a tool.

Old men ought be wise.

Shame that is not true in every -- this -- case.

[fansince62]

he's a great owner if we rack up some SBs! Otherwise, he's just a great businessman.

[brooksfb]

Dan is obviously a good businessman and he's not afraid to spend money. If he would leave the "football" decisions to "football" people he could be great. Hiring Gibbs as the President of Football Operations was a step in the right direction. Is PFO the same as GM? :whoknows:

The new software looks great. :1stplace:

[autographcollector]

I have two big issues with Snyder: (1) his failure to hire a GM who knows football and listen to him, and (2) his turning the team into a bunch of heartless mercenaries.

If he'd hired a GM, he'd have gotten an earful of advice, especially early on, that would have helped him avoid becoming the laughingstock of the league if he'd been smart enough to listen.

His strategy of buying big-name free agents, no matter the price, was far more disastrous (and related to the first point). Was hiring Deion a mistake? Bruce? Jeff George? Carrier? Fryar? Reed? Individually, maybe not, but as a strategy it turned the team into the place an (especially aging) player wanted to go -- not to win, but to collect a fat paycheck.

But that strategy backfired badly, and not just on the field. It backfired in the locker room. Instead of Darrell Green, we got Bruce Smith. Hell, Deion took Darrell's spot. That's a disgrace. This was no team at all -- they had the fewest number of players who lived in the community year round in the entire league.

That why they've been losers. They lack heart. It's not that they're less talented than the rest of the league -- if you stack up the rosters, you'd conclude that the Skins should be competitive. But they aren't.

And it's Dan Snyder's fault that they lack heart. He's built a cold-blooded, mercenary organization that is all about wringing as much money from the fans without much concern for winning. Some fans say, "Oh, Dan Snyder really, really wants to win -- look how much money he spends!" Here's the problem -- a drunk, vomit-smelling dwarf wandering naked in a bar might really, really want to get laid, but his chances aren't that great. Wanting it ain't enough. Sure, Dan Snyder wants to win, but I'd be willing to bet that if he had to choose between having the most profitable team in the league and finish 5-11, or the least profitable team in the league and make the playoffs, he'd choose the dark side.

Remember watching Jeff George, the (shudder) Redskins quarterback, getting dragged down the field while his linemen watched? That's what the Skins have become on Snyder's watch. This ain't the team of Dave Butz and Mann and Manley and Riggins. Do you think those guys would have let the Cowboys beat them this badly for this long?

Can Joe Gibbs turn it around? Maybe, but it's gonna be in spite of Dan Snyder, not because of him. Comparing him to Steinbrenner, who has six world championships and 10 pennants, is like comparing Hillary Clinton to Hillary Swank. Yeah, they've got the same parts, but which one do you want to wake up next to?

I think you make some good points in your posts HOWEVER you like many Snyder bashers miss some important things which I think have been forgotten.

Once Joe Gibbs left the team, the Redskins were terrible. They had no players, no heart. We had a GM. So the team for say 6 or 7 years (not sure the number) was not very good prior to Snyder taking over. (But we had a GM)

So here is what transpired...we had a QB the fans loved named Trent Green. Because we have no owner (the team was tied up by the Cooke estate) we cannot sign Green to a deal. So our GM trades picks for Brad Johnson.

When Snyder takes over, Norv Turners team OVERACHIEVES and makes the playoffs. Why do I say overschieve? Because for the only time in NFL history would both Michael Westbrook and Albert Connell catch 1000 receiving yards. So we would go into Snyders second year with Westbrook as our best receiver. Michael Westbrook was our TOP guy. Remember him?

So it looks like we are a few defensive players away from the big game. Snyder picks up the old guys (which they all admit was a mistake). The problem was the team was not any good. Westbrook gets hurt, I think AC was a free agent? Anyway the team Dan Snyder inherited with coach and GM had not much talent. Couple that with mistakes and it made him look bad.

The years prior to Snyder with Casserly as GM is as much to blame for the shape of the team in my opinion.

Everyone likes to drop the GM excuse like that would fix everything. Alot of NFL teams have GM's but aren't any better of than the Redskins.

Lets see what happens with Gibbs.i

[Om]

Guys like MADD and old man Reilly are unable or unwilling to see change in Snyder, nor are they interested in applying any objectivity to their rants. That MADD is still clinging to Jeff George being dragged around Dallas Stadium FIVE YEARS AGO as evidence of "what the Redskins have become under Snyder" is so preposterous on its face I simply don't understand why anyone bothers replying seriously any more.

Guys like this have taken their personal dislike for the owner, and used the worst possible interpretation of every little thing that's happened under his watch---be it football-related, business-related or just personal style-related---whether he actually had anything to DO with it or not, and twisted it into something only tied to reality by the thinnest, most artificial threads of logic. ALL negative as can possible be. Every single one. At some point, you just stop listening.

When the team wins again, rest assured they will be at the vanguard of those who soap-box the notion that the team won DESPITE Snyder, not WITH him. Only the bad stuff gets credited in this world-view, never the good.

[fuji869]

I think Dan Snyder's intentions are good, he wants to bring a Super Bowl Title back to Washington but he has made bad decisions and shown impatients in trying to get there which has set this franchise back.

2000 He takes a team that just a year before won the NFC East and just needed a few tweaks and did a major overhaul bringing in big named big $$$$ FA that ruined the Chemestry.

2002 Bringing in Steve Spurrier because that was his "Dream Head Coach", no need to coment on that.

His intentions are good but he is going about it the wrong way.

[RedskinsDave]

I'm curious at what point you folks who support how Snyder runs things will turn. How many losing seasons? How many dysfunctional offseasons (regardless of what Gibbs says this past offseason was a mess) will you stand?

I will always support the Skins and will always go to every home game but I am getting a little tired of the circus and the losing. My biggest concern is that Gibbs has bought into Snyder's way of thinking and nothing has been different since he came back except there was no spending spree, Of course, that was because there is no cap room.

In any business you will find that you-know-what rolls downhill and the fact still exists that the most successful team Snyder has had was really someone else's team.

[Om]

I think Dan Snyder's intentions are good, he wants to bring a Super Bowl Title back to Washington but he has made bad decisions and shown impatients in trying to get there which has set this franchise back.

2000 He takes a team that just a year before won the NFC East and just needed a few tweaks and did a major overhaul bringing in big named big $$$$ FA that ruined the Chemestry.

2002 Bringing in Steve Spurrier because that was his "Dream Head Coach", no need to coment on that.

His intentions are good but he is going about it the wrong way.

Same thing I alluded to with MADD, fuji ... you cite examples of stuff from 5 and 3 years ago, and ignore what's happening today. With what's happened here since Spurrier quit on the team at the end of the 2003 season, your blanket assessment is that Snyder is still "going about it the wrong way?"

You see no change? Really?

[Monkart]

I think Dan is a GOOD owner, he started off kind of shaky but he did learn from his mistakes. I think he was too much the fan instead of the owner when first starting out, with the high priced FA's and all. But he's past that now and with Gibbs back to controll all football operations he has the potential to be a Great owner, once we start winning again!!!

[redskin-one]

Even Snyder has admitted making mistakes. He has learned that the NFL is not like his business. The best thing about him is he is will to spend the $$$ to make the team better. Thank God the Milsteins didn't become the owners. It would be as bad as having the Bidwells as owners. :logo:

[citigent]

i think synder is a good intentioned owner who has made some mistakes , but his commitment and desire to make the skins a wining team is unquestionable. i would much rather have him as a owner then a owner who is only worried about the bottom line .

[Thiebear]

Being official now mean polls with high numbers...

He has been a marketing genius for the team and has made them the number 1 franchise in sports.... in Paris Hilton speak: That's Hot!

He has bought and paid for many a player that was good but not quite good enough to make up for consistency and team.... not so Hot!

Now: He is doing exactly what he should be doing: Hiring the people that hire the people that do the job that needs to be done...

And as long as he doesnt change the name or makes it Warrior/Hogs.. I give him an 8 out of 10..

[RedskinsDave]

It would be as bad as having the Bidwells as owners. :logo:

So you think we'll have more wins than Arizona this year? Many would doubt that.

I don't think Snyder is satan incarnate or anything but some of you are serious lemmings running over the cliff.

[Art]

I'm curious at what point you folks who support how Snyder runs things will turn. How many losing seasons? How many dysfunctional offseasons (regardless of what Gibbs says this past offseason was a mess) will you stand?

I will always support the Skins and will always go to every home game but I am getting a little tired of the circus and the losing. My biggest concern is that Gibbs has bought into Snyder's way of thinking and nothing has been different since he came back except there was no spending spree, Of course, that was because there is no cap room.

In any business you will find that you-know-what rolls downhill and the fact still exists that the most successful team Snyder has had was really someone else's team.

As has been discussed here previously -- within this thread even -- the job of the owner is to acquire the best football people he can possibly find and then try to let them do their jobs. Once he fired Norv, he hired Marty and totally stayed out of his way, even as Marty refused to even spend his budgeted amount on players to improve our chances. Even as Marty converted massive guarantees to Jeff George for no reason after George signed a cheap contract in 2000. Even as Marty cut a valuable player like Centers for wearing a baseball cap.

When Marty refused to make efforts to improve the offensive system and work more closely -- as he was contractually bound to do -- with personnel people, Snyder fired him and went to the next coach, Steve Spurrier with Marvin Lewis. Every football person in the country was hot for Spurrier. His failure is on Spurrier, not Snyder.

Now there's Gibbs.

As Snyder continues to stay out of his way and allows Gibbs to shape the team, the failure is not Snyder's should Gibbs be unable to make it happen. As Gibbs has said, he's being given everything he's asked for. At some point the responsibility is on the people you charge with running the football side of things. We've had coaching failure for the most part.

For example, we all give Gregg Williams RIGHTFUL credit for the great defense we had last year. But, along the line of thinking of some here, shouldn't that credit be Snyder's alone? If Snyder is responsible for everything, I mean? Of course we don't believe that.

We DO believe Snyder continues to find the best football people possible to run his organization. That's what his job is. No one does that better.

[RedskinsDave]

We DO believe Snyder continues to find the best football people possible to run his organization. That's what his job is. No one does that better.

He should have hired a GM a long time ago. He should have hired one once he fired Casserly. Even Gibbs would benefit from that.

[PCS]

So you think we'll have more wins than Arizona this year? Many would doubt that.

I don't think Snyder is satan incarnate or anything but some of you are serious lemmings running over the cliff.

You're kidding right? I mean aside from being fairly irrelevant I hope you're not comparing the 2. I'd take a hard look at the history of the Bidwells ownership of the Cardinals before making any statements that even come close to hint of comparison. With the hiring of Dennis Green it would appear that ownership there has finally learned,( at least seems to in some way), to leave things to football people. Thank goodness Dan Snyder didn't take the same amount of time to do so.

[PCS]

He should have hired a GM a long time ago. He should have hired one once he fired Casserly. Even Gibbs would benefit from that.

Why? That's no assurance of anything. Take a look at some of the teams that do have GM's and how it's helped their records. Now take a look at 2 of the best teams in the NFL the past few years and their organizational structures. Then tell me it's a guarentee that things would be better just by hiring a GM. And for the record books, Dan Snyder does have a history of looking for a GM. And one could count Marty as one during his 1 year stint in DC.

[flashback]

We DO believe Snyder continues to find the best football people possible to run his organization. That's what his job is. No one does that better.

Does this mean that Vinnie Cerrato is the best possible person for Director of Player Development? That there isn't a single person in the world who could do that job better, or, if there is, Snyder is looking for a way to get him in there?

I'm not going to bash Snyder. I think his job is to maximize his investment, and he has done a bang-up job in that department, according to documents in the Six Flags deal. He also wants to win a Super Bowl, and he's been very aggressive in trying to improve the team. I commend him for that. Maybe he's underestimated the value of continuity in the past, but not anymore, right?

As the coach of my favorite team often says, "You are what you are." The Redskins are something like 26 - 40 since Snyder fired his first coach.

You can go back and look at each decision and put the homer spin on it. Firing Norv. Firing Robiskie. Hiring Marty, firing Cerrato. Firing Marty, bringing Cerrato back. Hiring Spurrier. Letting Marvin Lewis walk. Firing Spurrier. Whatever happened with Joe Mendes. Regardless of the merits of those decisions at the time, the end result is on the field.

Marty may be a good example. Here's a guy who's had losing seasons, and is infamous for his problems in the post-season. But he won his division last year. Marty was probably never going to win with the Redskins, but that may be because Marty is a better coach than he is a GM. Whatever your opinion of John Butler or AJ Smith is, they've rather unexpectedly stumbled on to a winning formula out here in San Diego. Marty didn't have the "best football people possible" when he was in Washington. Unless you want to tell me Marty was the best GM and the best coach in football in 2001?