afparent Posted September 15, 2004 Share Posted September 15, 2004 Originally posted by Reaganaut Since I still have the the audience here to get myself in REALLY hot water... How about the racial breakdown of Redskins fans who used to attend games in RFK than the ones who attend games in Fed Ex Field? I work in an office that is predominantly African American and many of the older people here have season tickets but do not go to games anymore. They just sell them every year. I am not real happy about this because these are true blue Skins fans. By selling them, they end up putting them in the hands of people who tell me to sit down during games. The racial mix at Fed Ex Field is completely different and it really bothers me. I think older African Americans sell their tickets and they are being bought up by fans of other teams who are predominantly white. I wish they were back at RFK. Please Mr. Dan... haven't you made enough money already? Can't we move the team back??? I agree with what you say about the diversity comparision between Fedex and RFK, however, I bet ours is better than most cities. Watch a game, especially an NBA game and tell me what you see on TV. Mostly whites and that is not true for the Wizards or the Redskins. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Reaganaut Posted September 15, 2004 Share Posted September 15, 2004 Teresa Kerry is an African American. Most of the people in your office, Reagan, aren't. They are, however, black Americans. Art, I have a close family friend of over thirty years who used to run the Peace Corps in Africa and was the Executive Director of the African Development Bank. He spends nearly all of his time in Africa and HATES the term African American. He was born in Ethiopia and says he's an African American to predominantly black audiences. Doesn't go over real well, but he insists on doing it. Everyone who knows him loves him and I am blessed to have met many of his real African colleagues who happen to be black as well. They laugh at the term too, but in a world where you want to show people respect, it is shorthand for conveying that to people. If you live in Washington DC, it is a quick way to signal that you are giving respect which you would likely agree is the real issue here right? It is a phony term, but it accomplishes what I want to accomplish and keeps me out of possible uncomfortable situations. I love Jesse Jackson because he is so outrageous that it is a relief to more moderate blacks who are only too happy to convey they are not radicals. I am a conservative white person and am not apologetic about it. I do not want to be stereotyped with the depictions that are used by leaders such as Jesse Jackson about white conservatives so I use the term freely. I'm liberal about this and am happy with that. I go out of my way to make sure I erase anything that could offend the people I care about. I confess that one time I slipped up and told a black friend we used to call Southeast DC "Downtown Browntown" after I had decided to change. I was just sick about it and can only shake my head now over saying that. It's offensive, but I learned it as a kid and had a few too many beers to keep up my guard. I am concerned about offending people not because I'm politically correct, but because I actually love them and do not wish to offend them on that basis. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Coach Williams Posted September 15, 2004 Share Posted September 15, 2004 I don't recall any of them being that bad. maybe I missed the cartoon what was the title again. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NavyDave Posted September 15, 2004 Share Posted September 15, 2004 They saw it because ESPN had a mac vid file of it in front of them last month. Its not racist either. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
afparent Posted September 15, 2004 Share Posted September 15, 2004 I didn't even know the Poston's were black until I saw the cartoon. I just heard they were troublesome as an agent. So, I guess what I am saying is I didn't like them before I knew what color their skin was and I don't like them now. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Griff Posted September 15, 2004 Share Posted September 15, 2004 I think this has evolved into something that needs to be moved to tailgate??? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gridironmike Posted September 15, 2004 Share Posted September 15, 2004 Good point afparent. I can't get his toons to play (even the intro). What do I need to update? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Sir Posted September 15, 2004 Share Posted September 15, 2004 Originally posted by Art What portion of Bang's cartoon demonstrated that race is the primary determinant of human traits AND (conjoined you see) that racial differences produce an inherent superiority of a particular race? Read the words. Understand their meaning. Appreciate that there's a difference between racism and stereotyping. The two aren't interchangable. Nothing in Bang's cartoon inferred whites as superior to blacks. In fact, the blacks were in the position of superiority, getting all they asked for. Did you simply ignore the alternate definition of the word racist, the one that defined racist as "racial prejudice or discrimination"? Incase you aren't aware, prejudice is defined as the following: a (1) : preconceived judgment or opinion (2) : an adverse opinion or leaning formed without just grounds or before sufficient knowledge b : an instance of such judgment or opinion c : an irrational attitude of hostility directed against an individual, a group, a race, or their supposed characteristics Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ntotoro Posted September 15, 2004 Share Posted September 15, 2004 Originally posted by atlhawksfan Did you simply ignore the alternate definition of the word racist, the one that defined racist as "racial prejudice or discrimination"? Incase you aren't aware, prejudice is defined as the following: a (1) : preconceived judgment or opinion (2) : an adverse opinion or leaning formed without just grounds or before sufficient knowledge b : an instance of such judgment or opinion c : an irrational attitude of hostility directed against an individual, a group, a race, or their supposed characteristics What preconceived notion? We already know the Poston Bros are a$$holes... Nick Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
codeorama Posted September 15, 2004 Share Posted September 15, 2004 So I guess this means that white people can't call people of other races jerks.... What if Bang was black, would that make a difference? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dirk Diggler Posted September 15, 2004 Share Posted September 15, 2004 atl Have you been following the Poston's history? How about KW2's? They have provided "just grounds" for a parody such as this. Also, there is no "hostility" whatsoever in this skit. Dirk Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rockville Redskin Posted September 15, 2004 Share Posted September 15, 2004 Your only going to find it racist if you look for racist stereotypes in it. I don't think Bang meant anything by it and people just need to lighten up especially in this day in age. Did anybody see Real Sports on HBO about Kellen Winslow Sr? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sea Bass Posted September 15, 2004 Share Posted September 15, 2004 Racism has become a tool for lawyers and politicians to get the results they want. In my opinion, crying racism over every little thing diminishes the plight of people who are truly victims of racism. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bubba9497 Posted September 15, 2004 Share Posted September 15, 2004 Originally posted by codeorama So I guess this means that white people can't call people of other races jerks.... What if Bang was black, would that make a difference? Bang is WHITE?! :doh: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Sir Posted September 15, 2004 Share Posted September 15, 2004 I have no problem with the cartoon personally and I dislike the Postons. I just think it's funny that no one else can even see how that could possibly be considered racist, that's funny to me so I pointed it out. Sorry. Then Art wanted to insult my intelligence by suggesting I don't know what the word racist means when it appears he's the one that isn't aware of it's meaning. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Destino Posted September 15, 2004 Share Posted September 15, 2004 Originally posted by Art I don't agree with you here Griff. It's NOT ok to believe and state something that simply can NOT be true. It's not ok to believe 2 + 2 = 5. It doesn't equal 5. You don't get to believe it. You ask how Bang's cartoon can be considered racist; the answer is because it stereotypes blacks. The Poston's are seen depicted behaving unprofessionally, using accents stereotypically associated with blacks, and behaving erratically like uneducated thugs. Would such stereotypical behavior been chosen had the Poston’s been white? Maybe. This brings us to the Webster’s defense. You argue that the cartoon does not meet the definition of the word. Let’s look at the first definition cited: a belief that race is the primary determinant of human traits and capacities and that racial differences produce an inherent superiority of a particular race Was the primary reason behind the choice to depict the Poston’s a stereotypically black manner their race? If one is being intellectually honest it’s easy to see how this assumption could be made. Do the before mentioned traits convey “capacities and racial differences” that could be viewed as negative? Yes, in my mind they very easily can be interpreted that way. I find it hard to argue otherwise without really stretch logic to the breaking point. Do the methods in which blacks were portrayed imply an “inherent superiority of a particular race”? Remove the character names and roles and examine the characteristic at face value then compare them. I think this part of the definition is easily met as professional well educated and polite are viewed far more positively then their polar opposites found in black characters. So yes this cartoon can be viewed as possibly racist. The only problem with that and the reason I believe Bang is not racist and neither is his cartoon, is that this is comedy. It’s intended to induce laughter or at least a jovial grunt and a smirk. Comedy in the US currently finds itself linked strongly to racial stereotypes, and Bang is no more guilty then several thousand comedians out there of employing this method of humor. There is nothing wrong with it at all, and anyone that bothers to look into it as James Brown should have would see that. Only the most rigid critic would fail to note the humor and focus in solely on one aspect of the whole of Bang’s work. Bang is guilty of nothing more then using a favored comedic style and tone of our nation and time period. James Brown is guilty of being overly sensative to the subject of race and too eager to smear a good person without giving them the benefit of the doubt or any word at all in thier own defense. I can't believe I wrote all this for this laughable thread. :doh: On another note I am known to favor the term "black" over "African American" because it is shorter. Yes folks there is no higher reason for my choice in terms other then my own verbal laziness. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
big z Posted September 15, 2004 Share Posted September 15, 2004 such big arguments over a harmless cartoon....what a waste.:doh: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Art Posted September 15, 2004 Share Posted September 15, 2004 Originally posted by atlhawksfan Did you simply ignore the alternate definition of the word racist, the one that defined racist as "racial prejudice or discrimination"? Incase you aren't aware, prejudice is defined as the following: a (1) : preconceived judgment or opinion (2) : an adverse opinion or leaning formed without just grounds or before sufficient knowledge b : an instance of such judgment or opinion c : an irrational attitude of hostility directed against an individual, a group, a race, or their supposed characteristics No, I saw the second definition ATL. I just assumed you weren't going to attempt to stretch it there, since it can't fit. You see, racial prejudice requires a preconceived judgment or opinion based on the person's race. Or, an adverse opinion or leaning formed without just grounds or before sufficient knowledge. Or, irrational attitude of hostility directed against an individual, group race or their characteristics. The Poston's cartoon lampooned an agent. Not a black. Within the confines of that joke, blacks were stereotyped, as the whites were. Simply because the Poston's are black does not mean mocking the way they do their jobs is prejudiced. In fact, it IS racially prejudiced to attempt to make race play here as you're trying. For example, in the poll about who the best coach in the NFL is, how would you answer? If you answer any coach OTHER than a black coach, I can call you racist by the application of this definition you've applied. You think a white coach is superior to a black coach. You don't have to think he's so because he's white, but, your loose application simply states that if race is part of the equation racism applies. This is ignorant and you need to be a whole lot smarter here. You may not like racial stereotypes used in jokes. But, those stereotypes do not rise to the level of racism. Racism requires an unfair and unjustified negative view of a person based on race. Not profession. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
codeorama Posted September 15, 2004 Share Posted September 15, 2004 Originally posted by bubba9497 Bang is WHITE?! :doh: I know that he is white, I'm just asking, if he was black, would it still be racism? I know my boss is black and he thinks the cartoon is hysterical. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Riggo-toni Posted September 15, 2004 Share Posted September 15, 2004 Originally posted by ntotoro 'Sides, just because my family is from Lebanon doesn't mean they're Arabs. I'd be insulted if someone called me an Arab-American... Nick What if they called you a Maronite-American? (just guessing on your ethnicity here....) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ntotoro Posted September 15, 2004 Share Posted September 15, 2004 Originally posted by Riggotoni What if they called you a Maronite-American? (just guessing on your ethnicity here....) Ahhh... they would be close, but I'm not Maronite, I'm Antiochan Orthodox... the Church where I was baptised is St George's right on 16th & Varnum, NW... Good pull, though. I'm actually quite impressed... Nick Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RedskinsMarchingBand Posted September 15, 2004 Share Posted September 15, 2004 I just watched it again and I do not find it racist, but I can see how it could offend certian people.:2cents: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Coach Williams Posted September 15, 2004 Share Posted September 15, 2004 :wavetowel OHhh yeah...ok thax mike.....I have seen that one already......Ok now back to the topic...how in H*LL is that racist ? I think 100% that it was b/c he was a guest. There is nothing racist in that entire cartoon. As stated above the is a waste of time. :mad: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bubba9497 Posted September 15, 2004 Share Posted September 15, 2004 Originally posted by codeorama I know that he is white, I'm just asking, if he was black, would it still be racism? I know my boss is black and he thinks the cartoon is hysterical. I was trying to be funny... asking in mock surprise that Bang is white... not stating he is white.... heh:) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
codeorama Posted September 15, 2004 Share Posted September 15, 2004 Originally posted by bubba9497 I was trying to be funny... asking in mock surprise that Bang is white... not stating he is white.... heh:) gotcha...:laugh: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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