Analyst James Brown fires shot at Extremeskins.com

[ntotoro]

Originally posted by Reaganaut

Unfortunately, my two very young daughters love Bang's cartoons because they crawl up in my lap when I run them sometimes. I had a hard time explaining Garcia and his hampster to them.

S'okay... most adults don't understand that kind of behavior, either...

Nick

[Art]

Originally posted by atlhawksfan

M-W.com's definition:

Main Entry: rac·ism

Pronunciation: 'rA-"si-z&m also -"shi-

Function: noun

1 : a belief that race is the primary determinant of human traits and capacities and that racial differences produce an inherent superiority of a particular race

2 : racial prejudice or discrimination

Seemed racist to me, read the definition yourself and then get back to me. I'm not accusing Bang of being a racist individual just acknowledging that the cartoon could be considered racist.

What portion of Bang's cartoon demonstrated that race is the primary determinant of human traits AND (conjoined you see) that racial differences produce an inherent superiority of a particular race?

Read the words. Understand their meaning. Appreciate that there's a difference between racism and stereotyping. The two aren't interchangable. Nothing in Bang's cartoon inferred whites as superior to blacks. In fact, the blacks were in the position of superiority, getting all they asked for.

[Dirk Diggler]

Stereotyping does not equal racism. Many of the great comedians have used stereotypes in their comedy. As mentioned before, Eddie Murphy was famous for it. So was Richard Prior. These days, stereotyping is absolutely central to Chris Rock's comedic routines/skits. And he's considered hands down the best standup comic in the world. Dave Chapelle is another and he has a legion of fans, most of whom are white.

What do all of these comedians have in common? They're all black. And they're all just goofing on people. All colors of people. I just watched Bang's cartoon again and that's all I see. Like Art said I think the people who are crying racism really don't know what it means.

[nfchamp1]

Originally posted by KevinthePRF

More specifically Bang and his Poston cartoon,

Paraphrasing what he said just now on his show from Sporting News Radio. That he was on Extremesomething.com(didn't want to mention the Skins) and saw the most vile cartoon depicting the Postons in the worse possible racial stereotypes for blacks.

He really didn't like Bang's cartoon. Or maybe he was just kissing up because the Poston's were his guests.

Is there a difference between what is paraphrased above and stating that Bang is racist?

I THINK THERE IS!

[Art]

Originally posted by Chachie

All words have connotations that go beyond what Merriam-Webster decides. Let's not hide behind a dictionary.

Chachie,

Words mean what they mean. Usage can influence meaning, but, words can never go beyond what they are defined as. If you can't define a thing or a behavior with a particular word, you need to find another word. You don't get to expand the meaning of one word to fit because you're too lazy to know the difference between racist qualities and stereotypical qualities and how the two are not the same.

[Leonard Washington]

i didn't think it was racist. maybe the warren sapp one was a little too over the top but all bang's cartoons are funny to me. bang is cool guy and i take brown's comment as you can't please everybody all the time.

[Reaganaut]

If you did a focus group like Frank Luntz does for Fox and you sat down a group of African Americans on one side and whites on the other and let them watch the cartoon, you would likely get strong negative feedback from the African American group and more neutral feedback from the whites depending on their geographical breakdown. There would be two completely different reactions to this which plays out on this thread. Remember that 90% of African Americans vote Democratic and a majority believed OJ was not guilty beyond a reasonable doubt. I'm not making any commentary on whether this is good or bad, just that these differences exist in opinions and they arise from background race issues that will take another hundred years to disappear off of demographics as color differences get melded in. I'm white... it doesn't offend me that much, but I can see how it would others. If I was African American or mixed then I'd think differently. I sometimes wonder how Tiger Woods sees things, as an Asian or African American. I bet more as an Asian.

[DUSTINMFOX]

Originally posted by Chachie

I just watched the cartoon. The white guy was given what would be called a "stereotype" nerdy, white guy-voice. The Postons were given what would be called "stereotype", "ghetto", black-guy voices.

I'm not calling anyone a racist, but that cartoon DEFINITELY used stereotyping to portray all speaking characters. I support Bang's cartoons and his freedom of speech but I cannot BELIEVE that NONE of you think racial stereotyping was used (on both sides.) It WAS. CLEARLY.

Sorry, guys. I'm not trying to be a a$$ or anything. Just calling what I see.

So would it be wrong to stereotype with the voices in reverse? If the white happened to be a "wigger", is it then wrong?

[Griff]

Originally posted by atlhawksfan

Y'all honestly can't see how that could be considered racist? I finally watched that a few minutes ago to see what everyone was talking about and I can definitely see how it could be considered racist. I actually find it kind of funny that everyone who posted priorly could not find a single thing racist about it. I understand that it's a fellow Skins fan making the cartoon and that it's hosted by this site, but I can't believe that that blinded every single person. Not even just a majority but everyone that's posted in this thread.

There is nothing wrong with your own interpretation of Bang's cartoon (you are entitled to it), but just because others don't construe it as you did, that's not a good reason to call everyone else out like you did, as being blinded.

[DUSTINMFOX]

Originally posted by Reaganaut

If you did a focus group like Frank Luntz does for Fox and you sat down a group of African Americans on one side and whites on the other and let them watch the cartoon, you would likely get strong negative feedback from the African American group and more neutral feedback from the whites depending on their geographical breakdown. There would be two completely different reactions to this which plays out on this thread. Remember that 90% of African Americans vote Democratic and a majority believed OJ was not guilty beyond a reasonable doubt. I'm not making any commentary on whether this is good or bad, just that these differences exist in opinions and they arise from background race issues that will take another hundred years to disappear off of demographics as color differences get melded in. I'm white... it doesn't offend me that much, but I can see how it would others. If I was African American or mixed then I'd think differently. I sometimes wonder how Tiger Woods sees things, as an Asian or African American. I bet more as an Asian.

I'm sorry, but I have given up on the whole "African American" thing....even black people look at me funny when I describe someone that way. Hell, my four year old daughter always calls her teacher's assistant the "brown one." In a perfect world I guess.....

[Reaganaut]

Since I still have the the audience here to get myself in REALLY hot water...

How about the racial breakdown of Redskins fans who used to attend games in RFK than the ones who attend games in Fed Ex Field?

I work in an office that is predominantly African American and many of the older people here have season tickets but do not go to games anymore. They just sell them every year. I am not real happy about this because these are true blue Skins fans. By selling them, they end up putting them in the hands of people who tell me to sit down during games.

The racial mix at Fed Ex Field is completely different and it really bothers me. I think older African Americans sell their tickets and they are being bought up by fans of other teams who are predominantly white. I wish they were back at RFK.

Please Mr. Dan... haven't you made enough money already? Can't we move the team back???

[DUSTINMFOX]

Originally posted by Reaganaut

Please Mr. Dan... haven't you made enough money already? Can't we move the team back???

Are you really asking this question?

[Art]

Originally posted by Griff

There is nothing wrong with your own interpretation of Bang's cartoon (you are entitled to it), but just because others don't construe it as you did, that's not a good reason to call everyone else out like you did, as being blinded.

I don't agree with you here Griff. It's NOT ok to believe and state something that simply can NOT be true. It's not ok to believe 2 + 2 = 5. It doesn't equal 5. You don't get to believe it. You don't get to state it. This is the same thing. By the definitional meaning of racist, Bang's cartoon can not be called such. It's impossible to rise to the level of that word.

That's why JB on the radio didn't use that word. It does rise to the level of another word. Usually guilty white liberals or hysterical individuals of all races like to brand anything that could possibly bother a person of another race as "racist". But, if it isn't racist, it's our duty to correct the accuser.

[Ghost of]

Originally posted by Destino

To someone sensitive to the disparaging way in which successful blacks are represented all to often by the media and others Bang’s cartoon sets off warning bells. The stereotypical traits associated with urban African Americans used to portray the Poston’s would not be well received by anyone with a favorable opinion of them that may know them personally. Clearly the cartoon was meant to be funny and not an accurate description of the infamous agents but many have become sensitive to the automatic jump to “ghetto” behavior when blacks are involved.

I don’t agree with James Brown that the cartoon was racist, but in all honesty I see how it could be taken the wrong way. Now before you all get upset, please note that I like Bang’s work and agree that it is not racist. Just posting my honest opinion on the issue.

I agree with you here and I'm the one who told Bang that his portrayal of Ricky Williams(whose voice IS well-known) was a bit on the borderline.

But I think the Poston portrayal was closer to the Jackie Chiles/Johnnie Cochran template than 'ghetto' or 'urban black.'

[Reaganaut]

I'm sorry, but I have given up on the whole "African American" thing....even black people look at me funny when I describe someone that way. Hell, my four year old daughter always calls her teacher's assistant the "brown one." In a perfect world I guess.....

I can see a four year old saying that, but if you think African American is a term that isn't important then you do not live in Washington DC. It is a term of respect and signals that you consider racial issues important.

I use the term all the time and the reaction I get is much different. People are relieved when they each know the other isn't looking at skin color. It's a tool that I love and am thankful that I have a way to signal respect that I truly have for other people.

Ask anyone around my office. We genuinely love each other and are so relieved that race issues never come into play in our environment. I will keep using the term if for nothing other than to signal my love and respect.

[Art]

Teresa Kerry is an African American. Most of the people in your office, Reagan, aren't. They are, however, black Americans.

[Reaganaut]

Are you really asking this question?

If you do a search on my screen name, you will see that I am not a fan of Fed Ex Field. I wish we were back in RFK with all the old folks who used to show up for games. I loved it when I could high five with people of different races because we all LOVED THE REDSKINS. The Skins transcended racial barriers and for that I wish we could go back to RFK where it used to be fun to high five some guy I wouldn't normally run around with. I'm serious about this and I'd be surprised if there aren't more people out there who feel like me.

[DUSTINMFOX]

Originally posted by Reaganaut

I can see a four year old saying that, but if you think African American is a term that isn't important then you do not live in Washington DC. It is a term of respect and signals that you consider racial issues important.

I use the term all the time and the reaction I get is much different. People are relieved when they each know the other isn't looking at skin color. It's a tool that I love and am thankful that I have a way to signal respect that I truly have for other people.

Ask anyone around my office. We genuinely love each other and are so relieved that race issues never come into play in our environment. I will keep using the term if for nothing other than to signal my love and respect.

I do live close to Washington D.C....

I think the fact that I'm from a different generation has something to do with it. My age group, (generally speaking) in this area, do not see things so black and white. I have many "brown" friends and I'm not talking about coworkers either...If I called them African Americans they would simply laugh at me. But, I do agree with you that some might find it offensive.....but, my friends and I say a lot more offensive things to eachother than anything discussed in this thread...we simply look at it differently.

[Ghost of]

African-American is a goofy term that even most blacks(everywhere I've been, INCLUDING DC) do not embrace. I find that guilty white people often DO employ it.

It's also way too imprecise.

[ntotoro]

Originally posted by Reaganaut

Ask anyone around my office. We genuinely love each other and are so relieved that race issues never come into play in our environment. I will keep using the term if for nothing other than to signal my love and respect.

I'm kinda' worried about the state of relations in this country if calling someone a $.50 term for being black means you're showing respect. I neither want nor expect anyone to refer to me as "that fine Sicilian-American fellow" or "such a nice guy for an Arab-American."

If they did that to think it would make me happy or keep me from being insulted, they'd have another thing coming. 'Sides, just because my family is from Lebanon doesn't mean they're Arabs. I'd be insulted if someone called me an Arab-American...

Nick

[Neophyte]

Originally posted by DUSTINMFOX

I'm sorry, but I have given up on the whole "African American" thing....even black people look at me funny when I describe someone that way. Hell, my four year old daughter always calls her teacher's assistant the "brown one." In a perfect world I guess.....

In a perfect world, we are all AMERICANS and just that. No more and no less. I wish the hyphanated craze would go away because every last one of us (with the expection of Native Americans) can play that game. All it does is divide us more than we might otherwise be divided.

[cphil006]

A lot of people hate the Poston's because they are jerks, regardless of their skin color. I think the cartoon made light of them being jerks and rude. I don't think it depicted them in a derogatory manner. JB was simply kissing the Postons @$$ or at least thought he was. His intelligence level dropped on my meter.

[DUSTINMFOX]

Originally posted by Reaganaut

If you do a search on my screen name, you will see that I am not a fan of Fed Ex Field. I wish we were back in RFK with all the old folks who used to show up for games. I loved it when I could high five with people of different races because we all LOVED THE REDSKINS. The Skins transcended racial barriers and for that I wish we could go back to RFK where it used to be fun to high five some guy I wouldn't normally run around with. I'm serious about this and I'd be surprised if there aren't more people out there who feel like me.

I do agree w/you here...but, come on...finacially speaking, the team cannot afford this. How do you think we pay our players? And there are some in D.C. (a lot older than us) who did not like the Redskins because they were the last eam to intergrate....:2cents:

[Griff]

Originally posted by Art

I don't agree with you here Griff. It's NOT ok to believe and state something that simply can NOT be true. It's not ok to believe 2 + 2 = 5. It doesn't equal 5. You don't get to believe it. You don't get to state it. This is the same thing. By the definitional meaning of racist, Bang's cartoon can not be called such. It's impossible to rise to the level of that word.

That's why JB on the radio didn't use that word. It does rise to the level of another word. Usually guilty white liberals or hysterical individuals of all races like to brand anything that could possibly bother a person of another race as "racist". But, if it isn't racist, it's our duty to correct the accuser.

Art, your the man here

I just post

but really, if you look at it using the analogies you just mentioned, I do agree with you. My supervisor who holds a very high position with whom we work for is African American, he is very, very sensitive to racial undertones that go on and often does bring them to light in a public forum. He is very involved on many fronts in the advancement of African American people, particularly young people, I have shown him a many of Bang's cartoons in the past including the Poston cartoon and he agreed that Bang's cartoon did not have anything racist in it, it was merely depicting two greedy agents. He took absolutely NO offense to it, as being a African American male. He said it was in line with all of Bang's previous cartoons, and it was all in good fun.

[DUSTINMFOX]

Originally posted by Ghost of Nibbs McPimpin

African-American is a goofy term that even most blacks(everywhere I've been, INCLUDING DC) do not embrace. I find that guilty white people often DO employ it.

It's also way too imprecise.

I try not to give responses like this, but thank you