Per Rappaport, Jack Del Rio/ Vieselmeyer Fired. Ron will run defense for rest of Season

[RandyHolt]

I just heard on 1067 Ron signing off a zoom call with reporters... the zoom call still active after everyone said their goodbyes.... Ron lets out a nice loud exacerbated sounding groan of sorts. Very telling, and not surprising in the least. Just totally appropriate for where he is at this point.

 

Anything related to our defense, I always brace for the worst because our defense always under performs WRT reasonable expectations, for decades now. If Ron were to pull out all the stops and his defense dominates... guess who looks bad. His best friend. So I don't expect RR to do much different than Jack did, to close out the season. I am hope I am wrong - I want to kick ass in the last few names and not pre-panic over falling 3 draft slots. Winning helps bring in top tier free agents. Sells tickets to regional fans. Gets the culture of winning that Ron has been working on, in place. End the season on a positive and not have this place be the doldrums aka axe all the players let's burn it down for 9 months.

Edited November 27, 2023 by RandyHolt

[BatteredFanSyndrome]

44 minutes ago, RandyHolt said:

I want to kick ass in the last few names and not pre-panic over falling 3 draft slots. Winning helps bring in top tier free agents. Sells tickets to regional fans. Gets the culture of winning that Ron has been working on, in place. End the season on a positive and not have this place be the doldrums aka axe all the players let's burn it down for 9 months.

I couldn’t disagree more.  There is absolutely zero value in winning any more games.  No top tier free agent is going to consider late season moral victories in their decision making process, and they do nothing to instill a winning culture at the end of 4 years of under .500 football for a regime that will be toast come January.

 

The only thing we should be hoping for is that Sam perseveres and plays well, in games that end up losses.

[samy316]

1 hour ago, RandyHolt said:

I am hope I am wrong - I want to kick ass in the last few names and not pre-panic over falling 3 draft slots. Winning helps bring in top tier free agents. Sells tickets to regional fans. Gets the culture of winning that Ron has been working on, in place. End the season on a positive and not have this place be the doldrums aka axe all the players let's burn it down for 9 months.

Sorry, but HELL NO to this.  We have a pretty decent chance to right a gigantic wrong from back in 2020, the last time we picked in the Top 5 of the draft, and get a premier blue chip prospect, who has the ceiling of being an elite player.  Winning some BS, meaningless games at the end of the year does us absolutely no good, and hurts our chances at getting a premier OL player, or a stud WR/TE if that is what the new regime chooses.  We’re not making the playoffs, even is we win out, so why take ourselves out of a prime talent acquisition standing?  It makes no sense, and it actually hurts the new incoming regime.  
 

I don’t give a damn about anyone on this team, save for Allen, Payne, Curl, McLaurin, Dotson, Robinson and Howell.  The only thing I care about between now and the end of the season is Howell’s development. This season changed to evaluation mode the moment we lost to the Giants at home last week.  This season is over from a competitive standpoint.

Edited November 27, 2023 by samy316

[RandyHolt]

It seems a lot of people have been wishing for losses for decades now. how's that working out!

 

The draft is a crap shoot yet your pushing all in on wanting a month of losses on it. How's Carolina liking their top pick, was tanking worth it? 

 

Zero value. Not even to young impressionable fans?  Some may love to lose to Dallas to end the season. Not this fan and dare I think I am not alone.

 

Edited November 27, 2023 by RandyHolt

[PlayAction]

5 minutes ago, samy316 said:

I don’t give a damn about anyone on this team, save for Allen, Payne, Curl, McLaurin, Dotson, Robinson and Howell.  The only thing I care about between now and the end of the season is Howell’s development. This season changed to evaluation mode the moment we lost to the Giants at home last week.  This season is over from a competitive standpoint.

 

I want a GM to establish a DC version of the Eagles, Ravens, or Steelers.  Not their teams but a system that produces perennial competitive play.  The coach matters but the foundation is the GM and scouts.  The players and play calling are the fruits of the GM's labors.  I will be sad to see Allen, Payne, Curl, McLaurin, Dotson, Robinson, or Howell go.  But, if they don't fit OR their contracts don't make sense for the building process, then I will be happy that the GM makes the right decision.

[samy316]

18 minutes ago, RandyHolt said:

It seems a lot of people have been wishing for losses for decades now. how's that working out!

 

The draft is a crap shoot yet your pushing all in on wanting a months of losses on it. How's Carolina liking their top pick, was tanking worth it? 

 

Zero value. Not even to young impressionable fans?

 

 

W've had HORRIBLE leadership, which lead to extremely poor choices whenever we had a Top 10 pick.  Now that the leadership has/or will change for the better, I have absolutely NO problems wishing for losses.  What kind of good is it to win meaningless games, and screw up our chances at legitimate blue chip talent?  That's how you end up with the Jonathan Allen's, Terry McLaurin's and the Darron Payne's of the world, good players, but not game breaking elite players like Myles Garrett, Aaron Donald, Justin Jefferson, JaMarr Chase. 

 

We're in the perpetual state of picking just outside of the Top 10, or far enough away from the Top 5 for the past decade (Save for 2020), to have it impact the amount of elite players we have.  We don't have a single All-Pro talent on this team.  We have a couple of guys that might make a Pro-Bowl as an alternate, but we don't have any game-changing, elite playmakers that can single-handedly win you games.  That's why we've been mediocre under Rivera (and before that with Gruden).  Don't get me wrong, coaching makes a GIGANTIC difference, but our best players are just "very good", not great or elite.  That's what we need to fix going forward.  We need to get ourselves in the best position to acquire and attain elite playmakers.

[BatteredFanSyndrome]

16 minutes ago, RandyHolt said:

It seems a lot of people have been wishing for losses for decades now. how's that working out!

 

The draft is a crap shoot yet your pushing all in on wanting a months of losses on it. How's Carolina liking their top pick, was tanking worth it? 

 

Zero value. Not even to young impressionable fans?

 

 

 

Young impressionable fans want stars and enough wins to be talked about nationally, which typically equates to playoffs at minimum.

 

If this were year one of Rivera and Co., perhaps there is some value in winning down the stretch and falling short of the playoffs.  Season to season momentum carryover is largely a myth, but even if it was real - with the amount of turnover we are about to experience, it won’t matter anyways.

 

Again, there is absolutely no value to late season wins in lost seasons.  Unless, you are a season ticket holder and want to feel less awful about the money you lit on fire.
 

 

[Warhead36]

The Eagles flat out tanked in the 2020 finale. You think that any negative impact moving forward? They made the playoffs the very next year and the Super Bowl the year after that.

 

Give me the higher draft pick EVERY time. Especially with a brand new regime in charge of making the picks. Lets stop trying to do things the hardest way possible.

[RandyHolt]

If another team pulls off the stunt the Eagles did, we will get a lottery sooner than later. I am surprised it wasn't discussed afterwards.

 

Cheerleading HERE for a better draft pick changes nothing, so its a waste of time pushing back at fans that want to see upsets and maybe even make bank. We're arguing on a Monday in November under the assumption that an unknown GM will make the best pick 5 months in advance, and banking that the pick will be better than the pick we would end up with if our draft spot slips if we beat Dallas. That pick may get injured for the year in week 1. Whole lot of unknowns there!

 

If the players are going to try to win, I am supporting them. Instead of beating the drums here, send a DM to our players and coaches and tell them to tank to get better players, ironically that will replace said players.  Don't complain but being the ****tiest team in 2025 and not getting the 1OA.

Edited November 27, 2023 by RandyHolt

[Warhead36]

21 minutes ago, RandyHolt said:

 

If the players are going to try to win, I am supporting them. Instead of beating the drums here, send a DM to our players and coaches and tell them to tank to get better players, ironically that will replace said players.  Don't complain but being the ****tiest team in 2025 and not getting the 1OA.

Again people don't quite grasp the concept of tanking.

 

Nobody is asking the players to lose on purpose. Professionals are going to compete and try to win. I have no issue with that.

 

But the organization should be making moves for the long term. Resting veterans. Giving young players more snaps. Coaching more aggressively(going for more 4th downs, etc.).

 

At the end of the day, once gameday starts the players and coaches will be trying to win and I'm not gonna trash a guy like McLaurin or Allen going out and trying to win. That's why you take it out of their hands.

[Riggo#44]

32 minutes ago, RandyHolt said:

If another team pulls off the stunt the Eagles did, we will get a lottery sooner than later. I am surprised it wasn't discussed afterwards.

 

Cheerleading HERE for a better draft pick changes nothing, so its a waste of time pushing back at fans that want to see upsets and maybe even make bank. We're arguing on a Monday in November under the assumption that an unknown GM will make the best pick 5 months in advance, and banking that the pick will be better than the pick we would end up with if our draft spot slips if we beat Dallas. That pick may get injured for the year in week 1. Whole lot of unknowns there!

 

If the players are going to try to win, I am supporting them. Instead of beating the drums here, send a DM to our players and coaches and tell them to tank to get better players, ironically that will replace said players.  Don't complain but being the ****tiest team in 2025 and not getting the 1OA.

 

Did anyone else read this in Doc Walker's voice or was that just me?

 

Tanking is about maximizing future value. There is minimal value in winning 5 or 6 games, rather than 4. You know what happens if we don't stop Miami's 2-pt conversion in 2019? We get Joe Burrow and not Chase Young. Yes there are unknowns. Sure. However, there are more unknowns the further down the draft you go. That's what happens.

 

No one is talking about being the ****tiest team in 2025. In fact, we are talking about being ****ty now so we AREN'T the ****tiest then.

[Hazel-Ra]

On 11/24/2023 at 9:50 AM, Voice_of_Reason said:

Joe Barry is the worst DC in rhe history of the NFL and it’s not that close.  
 

How the hell we went from Haz to Barry to Manusky to Del Rio is wild.

 

At least Del Rio had 2 years where the defense ended well.  None of the rest of them can say that.  
 

Low bar but Del Rio is the best of the worst. 
 

Glad he’s gone though I’m not sure I care that much about the timing 

Lol... even my brain traumatically forgot Barry...

I used to want to win games regardless of draft scenarios, but we scrapped this season weeks ago so I wasn't even that mad about the Dallas loss or if we lose out. Seriously, that's a 1st for me.

[oraphus]

Don't forget that you're not just getting a higher pick in the first round... its a higher pick for every round in the draft. ( yes its common sense, but many forget)  so while there are no guarantees that we would hit on the higher 1st rd pick you still have a higher chance of hitting on more pics with a higher selection in each rd or getting more in trades of those pics.

[skinzplay]

1 hour ago, Hazel-Ra said:

Lol... even my brain traumatically forgot Barry...

I used to want to win games regardless of draft scenarios, but we scrapped this season weeks ago so I wasn't even that mad about the Dallas loss or if we lose out. Seriously, that's a 1st for me.l

 

Lest we forget about Ron Lynn.....

[Est.1974]

7 hours ago, RandyHolt said:

I just heard on 1067 Ron signing off a zoom call with reporters... the zoom call still active after everyone said their goodbyes.... Ron lets out a nice loud exacerbated sounding groan of sorts. Very telling, and not surprising in the least. Just totally appropriate for where he is at this point.

I really thought you were going to say he farted.

[Conn]

You’re never going to convince the “if the team’s playing I’m rooting for them to win” contingent—if cold, rational discourse about it could change their mind, their mind wouldn’t need changing in the first place. It’s the epitome of rational fanhood vs emotional fanhood. And though I personally fall on the “rational” end of the spectrum, I’m not doing the classic thing where I’m implying that in this case rational = good and emotional = bad (re: how you choose to be a fan). Whoever made the point that nothing we argue on here affects the situation, they were right. We all just experience and express our fandom in our own different ways. In this case, these subsets of the fandom are experiencing and engaging in their fanhood in completely different ways, considering timescales and risk/reward differently, etc. There isn’t common ground to be found outside of the obvious “we all want what’s best for the team in general, in our own way”. 

[El Mexican]

12 hours ago, PlayAction said:

 

Marty knew what he was doing - he had to clean out the bad contracts and find out which players were going to carry the lunch pail every day.  After one year, he had created cap space and acquired draft picks.  But the owner fan was bored with the process, so he fired Marty.  We never got to see whether the team would have developed into a long-term winner IF Marty had been able to deploy the money and draft picks appropriately.  It's a cautionary tale for fans today.  Fixing a poorly designed roster may require changes that fans don't like and result in a season with few wins.

 

As you said, getting a good GM with good vision is the key to changing this team for the better.  All of the talk of potential coaches or preferred draft choices is premature.    

 

Oh yes. Marty's tenure was even more notable considering the absolute sh*t storm El Dano had created the season before with the Turner/Robiskie fiasco.

Jeff George's presence didn't help either, hand picked by the boy-owner.

 

I still find it amazing Marty basically ejected George within the first two weeks of the 2001 season after two disastrous loses and even worse attitude. 

 

Hard to fathom I was happy to see Tony Banks.

I just KNEW we would pound the ball with Stephen Davis again and again (that was his season with most yards here) and Banks was there to keep the opposing D honest.

 

We had some identity. At the very least.

[Commander202]

Idk about everyone else but I think if Sean McDermott is available he be my first choice . We can’t deny how good the bills have been for 5 years and to put it nicely the bills before SM was more of a joke than us. Still I don’t see him getting fired the bills just are having a slump season.

[BringMetheHeadofBruceAllen]

18 minutes ago, Commander202 said:

Idk about everyone else but I think if Sean McDermott is available he be my first choice . We can’t deny how good the bills have been for 5 years and to put it nicely the bills before SM was more of a joke than us. Still I don’t see him getting fired the bills just are having a slump season.

I'm not so sure. The Bills are clearly underachieving and haven't gotten over the hump as predicted. Now they're behind the Colts and Broncos in the standings. I think if they really crash at the end of this year McDermott may be polishing up his LinkedIn resume.

 

It's scary how Josh Allen has regressed into Bubby Brister territory. That happened on McDermotts watch soni doubt he'd be a good fit here either.

Edited November 28, 2023 by BringMetheHeadofBruceAllen

[Conn]

59 minutes ago, Commander202 said:

Idk about everyone else but I think if Sean McDermott is available he be my first choice . We can’t deny how good the bills have been for 5 years and to put it nicely the bills before SM was more of a joke than us. Still I don’t see him getting fired the bills just are having a slump season.

No thanks. I don’t want a HC candidate who was dragged along by a legit franchise QB and still couldn’t make it work. 

[Commander202]

4 minutes ago, Conn said:

No thanks. I don’t want a HC candidate who was dragged along by a legit franchise QB and still couldn’t make it work. 

He drafted him?And the bills been legit SB contenders almost every year . The only team that has stopped them have been the chiefs . 

[method man]

5 minutes ago, Conn said:

No thanks. I don’t want a HC candidate who was dragged along by a legit franchise QB and still couldn’t make it work. 

To his credit, he took a Tyrod Taylor QBed team to the playoffs before Allen got there. He is a heck of a coach but I would rather stick with an offensive minded guy

[Commander202]

56 minutes ago, BringMetheHeadofBruceAllen said:

I'm not so sure. The Bills are clearly underachieving and haven't gotten over the hump as predicted. Now they're behind the Colts and Broncos in the standings. I think if they really crash at the end of this year McDermott may be polishing up his LinkedIn resume.

 

It's scary how Josh Allen has regressed into Bubby Brister territory. That happened on McDermotts watch soni doubt he'd be a good fit here either.

I feel like that shouldn’t have us say no tho . All the other years the bills been an elite team that was making aggressive moves . And just cause this is his down year doesn’t mean he automatically sucks or a bad coach. Doug P/ Andy Reid / Mike McCarthy all got fired from a terrible season , went to a new one and has there teams looking like they'll have a bright future .

 

Im just trying to keep an open mind . 

 

 

Edited November 28, 2023 by Commander202

[Warhead36]

Josh Allen hasn’t regressed. Look up his numbers. He had a couple bad games but hes been great. Bills wont fire Mcdermott.

[Commander202]

9 minutes ago, method man said:

To his credit, he took a Tyrod Taylor QBed team to the playoffs before Allen got there. He is a heck of a coach but I would rather stick with an offensive minded guy

this is a good take , I just feel he be good for us .the bills have talent and it’s a slump year . But he be good for us imo especially trying to keep us consistently good . I just can’t stand us losing to Dallas and the Giants anymore .

2 minutes ago, Warhead36 said:

Josh Allen hasn’t regressed. Look up his numbers. He had a couple bad games but hes been great. Bills wont fire Mcdermott.

I don’t see it either and I got the bills still making the playoffs . Can’t fire a coach that averages 10 to 13 wins a year and kinda surprise some fans don’t want that lol. I’m pretty sure bills will get 10 wins again when it’s all said and done .

Edited November 28, 2023 by Commander202