Potential GM Candidates

[skinzplay]

That article by Nicki J lays out the goods for why RR has gotta go and should've never been in charge of personnel in the first place. CLEAN HOUSE in that FO.

[NoVaSkins21]

1 hour ago, clskinsfan said:

Good for Montez. But there is no way we could have invested another 100 million into the defensive line. Not with the way the defense has performed. The second rounder is more valuable in all honesty. 

DEs can be found the draft and they don't have to be 1st rounders.  This team has to change their strategy once they find their next GM

Edited November 4, 2023 by NoVaSkins21

[Voice_of_Reason]

5 hours ago, NoVaSkins21 said:

Harris is going to lean heavily on Eugene Schen for the GM hire just like he did for the Sweat and Young trades at the deadline

If they were to announce Eugene Shen as GM at the end of this season, honestly, they wouldn’t shock me.  And then he hires Executive Directors of scouting, etc.  

 

I wouldn’t place a huge bet on it but I also wouldn’t be terribly surprised. 
 

“get the right people on the bus first, then figure out where they’re sitting.”

[Est.1974]

4 minutes ago, Voice_of_Reason said:

If they were to announce Eugene Shen as GM at the end of this season, honestly, they wouldn’t shock me.  And then he hires Executive Directors of scouting, etc.  

 

I wouldn’t place a huge bet on it but I also wouldn’t be terribly surprised. 
 

“get the right people on the bus first, then figure out where they’re sitting.”

Yep, had the same line of thinking.

[Redwards]

4 hours ago, Skinsinparadise said:

Missed picks, bad deals: How the Commanders failed at roster-building

 

 

When Washington selected Chase Young with the second pick in the 2020 draft, Coach Ron Rivera and the team’s personnel staff, then led by Kyle Smith, believed he was the right guy for what the team needed at the time. They had a young, developing quarterback in Dwayne Haskins, and Young was regarded by most analysts to be the best overall player in his class.

 

 

“It’d have been very hard to convince me that somebody else would be as impactful as the guy we drafted,” Rivera said at the time.

Young was a Pro Bowler and the NFL’s defensive rookie of the year in 2020, but missed 23 games over the next three seasons because of injuries. When he was healthy, his impact was notable but inconsistent, and Washington’s starting line of four former first-round picks failed to meet expectations. Washington traded him to the San Francisco 49ers for a compensatory third-round pick Tuesday, with Young still months from finishing his rookie deal.

 

“Everything’s a possibility,” defensive line coach Jeff Zgonina said Friday. “Every time you step out of your car, you can be fired in this business. There’s only one person safe in this building. That’s the guy that owns the team, or the owners of this team.”

 

The problem has been that too many of Washington’s “possibilities” have ended in disappointment. When Ron Rivera took over as coach with control over personnel in 2020, his attempts to fix the flawed roster he inherited have resulted in modest successes getting undermined by glaring misses in the draft, free agency and trade market. With Rivera coaching in the fourth year of a five-year contract, the Commanders continue to pay for those problems, literally and figuratively.

The offensive line has undergone multiple iterations, the defensive line failed to meet expectations, the linebacking corps is still problematic and the secondary is often a liability.

 

It’s enough to obscure what has worked out. The team selected safety Kamren Curl in the seventh round in 2020, and he’s now a staple of the defense. So are cornerback Benjamin St-Juste and safety Darrick Forrest, third- and fifth-round picks, respectively, in 2021, who impressed in relief roles and prompted the Commanders to find ways to get them more snaps.

And last year, one of the more savvy decisions of the Commanders was trading back in the first round of the draft to select receiver Jahan Dotson and use the extra picks to grab running back Brian Robinson Jr. (third round), quarterback Sam Howell (fifth) and tight end Cole Turner (fifth).

“Four young guys that we think can be part of what we're doing going forward,” Rivera said in January. “Those are the kinds of things that we want to be able to get better at and continue to find that kind of talent. Because one of the things that when Martin [Mayhew] and Marty [Hurney] came in, we talked about was roster-building as much as we can through the draft and putting those pieces into place.”

 

But the problem is that when Washington manages to find pieces that fit, too many holes remain.

 

The early rebuild

Go back to 2020, when Washington ended a tenuous situation with left tackle Trent Williams by trading him to the 49ers during the draft. That netted the team a 2020 fifth-round pick and a 2021 third-round pick, which was used on center Keith Ismael and St-Juste, respectively. Ismael was released from injured reserve with a settlement before his third season. St-Juste later became the eventual replacement for one of the team’s biggest misses.

But first, issues up front continued to pile up.

Washington paid guard Brandon Scherff roughly $33 million on consecutive franchise tags for 24 total games from 2020-21. The team would’ve had trouble paying him a long-term deal after that, so he left for Jacksonville as a free agent in 2022 — a second Pro Bowl lineman, gone.

 

All the while, Washington tried to add speed and talent to its defense, only to create more issues.

In March 2021, Washington signed cornerback William Jackson III to a three-year contract worth $40.5 million. Jackson played well in Cincinnati’s man-heavy scheme, but he was a poor fit in Washington’s system. So Washington traded him to Pittsburgh for a future conditional seventh-round pick swap before the deadline last year.

 

The team is still feeling the ripple effects.

Jackson’s contract is the largest Washington has given a free agent over the past four years, and the team ultimately paid him around $24 million. Of that, $9 million is on this year’s books as “dead money,” or money that was already paid and counts against the salary cap. For context, Jackson’s cap hit this year is larger than that of defensive tackle Daron Payne ($8.61 million), who signed a four-year, $90 million contract in March.

 

Jackson is not currently on anyone’s active roster.

To address Washington’s woes at linebacker — a position that has struggled despite having a coaching staff with three former NFL linebackers in Rivera, Del Rio and linebackers coach Steve Russ — the team selected Jamin Davis in the first round of the 2021 draft.

A one-year starter at Kentucky, Davis was said by Rivera to be “what you look for in a football player,” with his athleticism and positional flexibility. But Davis struggled in his first two seasons, even prompting Del Rio to call him out publicly for his poor performance. Now, in Year 3, he’s starting to come into his own.

“… I mean, the young man’s really come a long way,” Rivera said last month. “He’s done some really good things for us, and we’re pretty excited about who he’s become.”

 

The Commanders hoped to get more out of their 2021 draft class, however.

 

The team selected defensive ends William Bradley-King and Shaka Toney in the seventh round, looking to develop them into key depth players up front. But neither developed into much of anything. Bradley-King is no longer on the roster, and Toney is suspended indefinitely for betting on NFL games.

Washington also drafted receiver Dax Milne in the seventh round that year, with hopes he’d become a viable returner. He was reliable, no doubt. But the team opted to turn to Milne and move on from DeAndre Carter, one of their best returners in years, instead of paying Carter a minimal one-year contract, which the Los Angeles Chargers did in free agency.

 

Milne is on injured reserve now, and his replacement is Jamison Crowder, a 30-year-old and former Washington draft pick who has so far been one of the team’s most promising acquisitions this season. His 61-yard punt return against the Atlanta Falcons was the franchise’s longest return since … his 89-yard return in 2016.

 

Recent misses

The compounding of problems has been especially noticeable up front.

To replace Scherff and Ereck Flowers at guard last year, the team signed older veterans Trai Turner and Andrew Norwell, who previously played for Rivera in Carolina. The result? Turner was benched in Week 4 last season, and Norwell had well-documented struggles.

The two lasted only the season together before Washington looked to shuffle the O-line again.

 

It’s also been an issue at quarterback, where Rivera inherited a roster with the late Haskins and benched him twice amid a cycle of eight different starters.

The most glaring whiff there: Carson Wentz, whom Washington traded multiple picks to acquire from Indianapolis and paid his full salary for 2022. Wentz suffered a finger injury in Week 6 and was replaced by Taylor Heinicke for a stretch — until Rivera decided to bench Heinicke and give Wentz one more chance. The Commanders lost spectacularly to the Browns, ending all hope of a playoff run.

 

The hope now is that Howell can finally turn into the guy the team has been searching for at quarterback. But it doesn’t erase the fact that, over the past four years, Washington has struck out with a first-round rookie, veterans acquired by trade (Kyle Allen and Wentz) and an undrafted free agent (Heinicke) at quarterback.

 

https://www.washingtonpost.com/sports/2023/11/04/commanders-draft-free-agent-busts/

Sadly, this is exactly what I expected when Ron passed on Shoen (sp?) for Martin 0-16 Mayhew.  You reap what you sow.  And I can't wait for Rivera and his hand-picked crew to be jettisoned.  

3 hours ago, Riggo#44 said:

Wow, not sure I'd touch Cunningham.

 

Oye.

 

Over freaking paid big time.

 

Montez may be a talented player, but he's not rising any longer.  He's hit his ceiling as a player....and it ain't worth that amount of scratch per season.  Not even close.  This makes me leery of Cunningham for GM.  

[tomwvr]

2 hours ago, clskinsfan said:

Good for Montez. But there is no way we could have invested another 100 million into the defensive line. Not with the way the defense has performed. The second rounder is more valuable in all honesty. 

You are correct. 

[HigSkin]

5 hours ago, NoVaSkins21 said:

Harris is going to lean heavily on Eugene Schen for the GM hire just like he did for the Sweat and Young trades at the deadline

 

I thought the same but I don't think he becomes the GM rather they maybe search out someone who has worked with Shen, either from Baltimore, Jacksonville or Miami.

 

 

Edited November 4, 2023 by HigSkin

[NoVaSkins21]

1 hour ago, Voice_of_Reason said:

If they were to announce Eugene Shen as GM at the end of this season, honestly, they wouldn’t shock me.  And then he hires Executive Directors of scouting, etc.  

 

I wouldn’t place a huge bet on it but I also wouldn’t be terribly surprised. 
 

“get the right people on the bus first, then figure out where they’re sitting.”

 

52 minutes ago, HigSkin said:

 

I thought the same but I don't think he becomes the GM rather they maybe search out someone who has worked with Shen, either from Baltimore, Jacksonville or Miami.

 

 

Guys, I know Shen isn't going to the next GM.  My point was that Shen was going to a big influence, from an analytical perspective, on who that person will be

Edited November 4, 2023 by NoVaSkins21

[Searchingforaqb]

Anyone who doesn't do the following 

 

1) ruin relationship with the games best left tackle and trade him for nothing 

 

2) actually pick someone decent in the second round (no more Amerson/Cravens/Mathis/Ryan Andersons)

 

3) Don't piss away picks or past it or never were it qbs (3rds on Smith/Wentz)

 

4) have a balanced approach to building the team - not just all first rounders on one side of the all while neglecting the other 

 

[Voice_of_Reason]

6 minutes ago, NoVaSkins21 said:

 

Guys, I know Shen isn't going to the next GM.  My point was that Shen was going to a big influence, from an analytical perspective, on who that person will be

I know that’s what you’re saying but what I’m saying is it would be an out of the box hiring and it wouldn’t be shocking. 
 

I don’t think it happens.  But if it did, it wouldn’t shock me. 

[Sacks 'n' Stuff]

12 minutes ago, Searchingforaqb said:

actually pick someone decent in the second round

2nd round picks since the turn of the century. It ain’t pretty.

 

2023: Quan Martin

2022: Phidarian Mathis

2021: Sam Cosmi

2020: -

2019: -

2018: Derrius Guice

2017: Ryan Anderson

2016: Su’a Cravens

2015: Preston Smith

2014: Trent Murphy

2013: David Amerson

2012: -

2011: Jarvis Jenkins

2010: -

2009: -

2008: Devin Thomas, Fred Davis, Malcom Kelly

2007: -

2006: Rocky McIntosh

2005: -

2004: -

2003: Taylor Jacobs

2002: Ladell Betts

2001: Fred Smoot

2000: -

[Voice_of_Reason]

5 minutes ago, Sacks 'n' Stuff said:

2008: Devin Thomas, Fred Davis, Malcom Kelly

That entire draft, but specifically mr. Hair grooming product…

 

7 minutes ago, Sacks 'n' Stuff said:

2002: Ladell Betts

Former poster McD5 or whatever his name was would argue this pick alone salvaged 2nd round picks for 390 years.

[tomwvr]

11 minutes ago, Sacks 'n' Stuff said:

2nd round picks since the turn of the century. It ain’t pretty.

 

 

2023: Quan Martin

2022: Phidarian Mathis

2021: Sam Cosmi

2020: -

2019: -

2018: Derrius Guice

2017: Ryan Anderson

2016: Su’a Cravens

2015: Preston Smith

2014: Trent Murphy

2013: David Amerson

2012: -

2011: Jarvis Jenkins

2010: -

2009: -

2008: Devin Thomas, Fred Davis, Malcom Kelly

2007: -

2006: Rocky McIntosh

2005: -

2004: -

2003: Taylor Jacobs

2002: Ladell Betts

2001: Fred Smoot

2000: -

3 nfl calibre players and a few still waiting ….

[zCommander]

2 hours ago, Redwards said:

Oye.

 

Over freaking paid big time.

 

It is about freaking time! We are the ones that is always getting fleeced.  

[Ball Security]

2 hours ago, Redwards said:

Sadly, this is exactly what I expected when Ron passed on Shoen (sp?) for Martin 0-16 Mayhew.  You reap what you sow.  And I can't wait for Rivera and his hand-picked crew to be jettisoned.  

Oye.

 

Over freaking paid big time.

 

Montez may be a talented player, but he's not rising any longer.  He's hit his ceiling as a player....and it ain't worth that amount of scratch per season.  Not even close.  This makes me leery of Cunningham for GM.  

How much of that decision is on Cunningham vs Poles?

[PlayAction]

22 hours ago, Stihl89 said:

I dont want Adam Peters. I think the Shanny system allows so much flexibility in assessing value to their oline. They can get more out of less with it. Along with Kyle system having the least "margin" between run and pass. 

 

Couple it with their weird FO set up with Kyle really being the shot caller working hand in hand with Lynch im a hard pass. 

 

I want Cunningham or Alec Halaby

 

Adam Peters was hired at the same time as Kyle Shanahan so he should be finding players that fit that particular system.  Why do you think he's a one-trick pony?  We do know that SF has done a great job at managing their roster.  They have 11 picks in the 2024 draft (a first, second, and two thirds AFTER trading for Chase Young) and the trade may have a net cost of zero if they get a compensatory pick when/if Chase leaves at the end of the season. 

[88Comrade2000]

Get an assistant Gm from the teams with a good/ great front office or has pedigree from working at front offices at one time.

 

I’m not expecting anything next year, as they will spend the year evaluating the holdovers. It doesn’t mean we can’t snag a playoff spot but I’d expect more in years 2 and beyond; as the team has the players the new team wants.

[Redwards]

14 hours ago, Ball Security said:

How much of that decision is on Cunningham vs Poles?

Let's hope very little.  Lol.  

[skinny21]

15 hours ago, Sacks 'n' Stuff said:

2nd round picks since the turn of the century. It ain’t pretty.

 

2001: Fred Smoot

So a guy we draft in 2024 could be a Command Center panelist in 20 years?  That’s some serious forward thinking…