2024 NFL Draft Position/Tracker - Final Pick #2

[Chump Bailey]

1 hour ago, UK Skins said:

Now I know bugger all about College Football but my understanding is that Fuaga is a RT? Would love him, presumably in the 2nd round though.

 

A stud RT  I'd be absolutely shocked if he fell to the 2nd round but considering there are so many freaks at WR and this is a very good QB class to my eyes, I suppose that could be be the catalyst that would enable him to drop but that's about it IMO. Just for the record: If the choice is between Fashanu or Fuaga I do think I would opt for Fuaga. I like him that much. If the choice were Alt or Fuaga I'd lean Alt by a hair. 

Edited December 14, 2023 by Chump Bailey

[Skinsinparadise]

11 minutes ago, RWJ said:

Come on down, Jayden Daniels (I hope) to The Commanders at #3 or #4! 

 

I know some here (not you) would like to see Daniels wear Giants blue not me.  The Giants are an odd team.  Their recent draft classes look good.  Some good FA signings too.  Yet they've stunk this year -- feels like a combination of bad QB play and injuries especially on the O line.  But I am not gung ho to see how they do with potentially a better QB.  A season ago, they were a playoff team and won a playoff game.  It's part of the reason why I want to see the Giants win streak continue.

 

 

 

Edited December 14, 2023 by Skinsinparadise

[Chump Bailey]

1 minute ago, Skinsinparadise said:

I know some here (not you) would like to see Daniels wear Giants blue not me.

 

There are Commanders fans that WANT Daniels to be a Giant? Wow. Not this guy.

[Skinsinparadise]

16 hours ago, Chump Bailey said:

 

There are Commanders fans that WANT Daniels to be a Giant? Wow. Not this guy.

 

I said with a tinge of sarcasm but I've noticed with some posts some people don't give a rats ass about who the Giants get in this draft. 

 

But, I do.  Not to the extent that I'd take a player just to ensure a divison foe wouldn't which supposedly is what prompted Gibbs to trade for Duckett years ago because he heard Philly wanted him.   

 

We are way behind Dallas and Philly.  The only team we are competitive with is NY in the division.  They have owned us head to head and its looks like they will finish ahead of us 2 years in a row.  If we are the 4th best team in the division its indeed relevant IMO to this team's future success.

 

I've heard personnel guys say that their division foes loom large in how they build their teams because if you can't get through your own division you are going nowhere.  So yeah, I root against all the teams in our division as to them not meeting their draft needs.  I was for example pumped when the Giants drafted Daniel Jones.  I loved it because I thought it would put a ceiling on that team.  And it has.  i'd like that dynamic to stay versus caring less whether they fix it. 

Edited December 15, 2023 by Skinsinparadise

[The Consigliere]

6 hours ago, clskinsfan said:

I dont think you are gonna get a first for Howell. His "top 5" stats are skewed because EB refuses to run the football. His TD% is the lowest of the top 17 QB's in passing yards. His INT% is the second highest IN THE LEAGUE. His QBR is 23rd. I am not saying Howell cant be a good starter. He could end up being a top 15 player at the position. But when you actually dig into his stats with open eyes the story becomes much murkier.

Now add draft capital from selection, and we like to pretend: hey, sunk cost, what they do afterwards is what counts, but it actually does matter because it colors how much teams are willing to offer in deals until there is "no doubt whatsoever" that a player has "hit" and even then it can still vanish (see what happened to James Robinson-proven in jacksonville, but little draft capital meant it was easy to justify cutting him and nobody cared that he "proved it" in jville as a bell cow back). Now look at the deeper underlying #'s via advanced analytics stats, and he's in the low teens to low 20's, and the median # is probably around 22nd or 23rd. Anyone want to put all their chips in on an guy whose median rating is right around that QBR #, 23rd? Really? 

 

Do I think he's that bad? No, not really, but there is how much we as fans value him, how much the team does, and how much other teams are willing to pay and honestly why on earth would any team EVER trade a 1st or a 2nd (or even a high 3rd) for a QB that....

A. Is bottom quartile in the league in every metric that matters or damn close to it.

B. Carries mid day 3 draft capital.

C. Has only 2 years left on his rookie deal and no 5th year option.

D. Do all of that when the offseason QB market may have multiple starters available for cheap: Mac Jones, and Justin Fields, a bunch of former 1st rounders that will still carry the lingering scent of first round evals from around the league. Plus some solid free agency guys and cut vets. 

 

Nobody is going to offer that for Sam. If Sam had killed it this year, inspite of everything that went wrong, maybe we could talk a late 2nd. But he didn't. He was erratic, he had great games and halves, and crappy games and halves and basically looked good enough to play in this league as a bridge QB or backup, but as someones no doubt it #1? Nope. He wasn't that. Now consider, a lot of people comp him to Baker, maybe a poor man's Baker, and Baker historically has been a bit of a Saberhagen of QB's, alternating bad seasons (20something ranked) with average seasons (16th-18th caliber seasons) until he got injured and had back to back yucks in '21 and '22 before a bounce back this year. This is a guy who helped lead the Browns to a 12-6 season, winning their first playoff games in eons along the way. That guy got a conditional 5th rounder as comp from Carolina 18 months ago. If he's drawing a 5th, what is Howell getting with all of the issues I listed above and having well short of the 60 starts Baker had in the bag when he finished his first crappy game as a Panther. 

 

Sam's a question mark, and nobody pays big money for low draft capital question marks, if he'd been a 1st rounder, he'd get a bit more rope, but with that 5th round draft capital, teams look at him, and think, "man, the commanders were smart to grab him over the other garbage in that class, he'll make a solid back up, emergency starter in a pinch". Could they think more of him? Maybe, given time and a better season in the future, but right now? Nope, he has nowhere near the value so many seem to think to other teams, he's the essence of a "Hold," because you simply can't get back the value you think he carries, so keep him. Whether you draft a QB or not. 

[The Consigliere]

6 hours ago, Thinking Skins said:

That for them to tell you. I'm not going to offer them that. If I'm selling my car, I'm not going to go and try tell you why you should pay less. I'm going to tell you why you're getting a deal. His Iny % is high because he was trying to throw balls away and they were caught / intercepted. The sacks are because of the line and because he wants to make plays. Something he needs to learn from but a characteristic of his skill, and something you see in his rushing TDs. You're selling him short. I wouldn't want you negotiating the trade. 

You need to live in the real world. That's why he's a hold, "all the "Yes, but's," are what we can tell ourselves while we keep him and try to have him develop into a valuable asset either to start, or trade in '24 or the '25 offseason. But no team is going to give him the sunny explanation and excuse for any mistake he's made and accept it as definitive. Nobody, and why should they? They're buying, but they're going to assume all the ----- metrics can be explained away? That none of it is his fault? That the fact that he had exactly the same issues with sacks at UNC is about those bad teams and not him? Nobody's buying that except us. Do I think what you say could be true, or at least partially true? Sure. But if you're trying to trade the guy, teams are going to be honoring the threat of what he does well, but also honoring the reality of what he hasn't, so far, either in his last year with the Tar Heels, or in D.C. They're not taking our word for it when the #'s are there, right in front of you and right in front of them. You're selling all his strengths and papering over every glaring issue that's screaming in the background. Time will tell if he can overcome those issues or not, but they sure as ---- are issues right now worth worrying about, both for us, and for teams we might want to trade him too. Pretending otherwise is lunacy, and basing long term decision making on "hopes" rather than on real tangible numbers strikes me as the height of folly. 

 

[Daniel.redskins]

5 hours ago, Koolblue13 said:

 

If there's a camp battle and Sam beats out the new QB, the new HC should start him.

Then we completely wasted our top 5 pick. Last thing we need with a million holes on this team is for our top pick to be a bench warmer.  This is why I hope we get a couple a wins and end this QB talk.  It's getting annoying.  The smart thing to do is trade back or take the best tackle in the draft.  

[El Mexican]

On 12/12/2023 at 2:51 PM, Conn said:

But the question has to be asked and no amount of OL needs outweighs that imo. 

 

We are less than a handful of sacks away from having our WORST season ever in sacks allowed.

 

That's not hyperbole. That's fact.

 

Let that sink in. Worse than the Zorn era, worse than Heath Shuller era, worse than every season with The Dany around here, worse than the putrid last Shannahan season.

 

This is one of those times when OL-specific needs outweight everything else. It's not even a discussion.

[Skinsinparadise]

Breer is plugged in, his point about the expiring contract of a young QB will have some relevance soon here, too.  I read today that Dak might get 60 million a year on his next contract.  If so its going to make the gap between young QBs on rookie contracts and veterans even wider.

 

https://www.si.com/nfl/2023/12/14/mailbag-drake-maye-caleb-williams-draft-prospects

Take Williams, and trade Fields. Chances are you won’t be able to get much more than a Day 2 pick for Fields at this point, especially since he’s headed into the final year of his rookie contract (with the pricey option for 2025). But in this scenario, you get four years of Williams on a rookie deal, meaning the same way you could load the team around Fields with rookie talent, you could use the extra cap space to be aggressive in getting veteran talent to put around Williams.

[Sacks 'n' Stuff]

10 minutes ago, Daniel.redskins said:

Then we completely wasted our top 5 pick. Last thing we need with a million holes on this team is for our top pick to be a bench warmer.  This is why I hope we get a couple a wins and end this QB talk.  It's getting annoying.  The smart thing to do is trade back or take the best tackle in the draft.  

Agreed. Unless Sam was just a total asshole behind the scenes or some other nonsense, picking a QB doesn’t make any sense to me.

[Skinsinparadise]

This should be an interesting thread for the next 5 months, if we end up picking top 5.   

 

A.  You got a group thinking its insane not to consider a QB

 

B.  You got a group thinking its insane to consider a QB.

 

I'd bet my mortgage that A will prevail.  It doesn't feel even close.  Again not that they per se take a QB but that they will heavily consider it, everyone who covers the team expects them, to do it.  It's just logical IMO and that goes double here considing this team's history at the spot. 

 

The only thing that can change that narrative is if Sam starts killing it against top defenses which hasn't happened in the last two weeks but could happen moving forward.  He will have a chance to do it coming up -- SF, the Jets and Dallas are really good defensively.  And if they win a game or two and it takes them out of the top 5.

 

Edited December 14, 2023 by Skinsinparadise

[Sacks 'n' Stuff]

I mean, I want them to evaluate the quarterbacks and I’m sure they will. I just don’t think they are going to decide that any of the guys we have a shot at has any better chance of being our franchise quarterback than Sam does. Factoring in that you are giving up a chance to lockdown left tackle or pick some other stud, I’m confident that we’ll be going in a direction other than QB with that pick.

[YouLikeThat]

We need to talk about how our current quarterback will do the last 4 weeks which will make or break his status for Washington. Winning games alone will not take Washington out of the qb draft race. Sam Howell will decide that with his play. He will have to play well and win games. One of those is definitely not happening and the other hasnt been trending that way the last few weeks. At the end of the day we need our qbs that will want to command 40-60 mill a year to be a playmaker and can will his team to win a game and not be a game manager or stat padder with a career .500 record with no conference championship appearances. 

[Chump Bailey]

42 minutes ago, Skinsinparadise said:

A.  You got a group thinking its insane not to consider a QB

 

I guess you can lump me in with the A group in that case  This is too good a class to outright ignore the position and you know I do not dislike Howell.

[clskinsfan]

2 hours ago, Skinsinparadise said:

I know some here (not you) would like to see Daniels wear Giants blue

The guy is literally one NFL hit from a season ending/career ending injury. And even if he doesnt get hit he cant read huge holes in the secondary. MIGHT he become Lamar? Maybe. But he is YEARS away from being that IMO. Because he has no clue how to protect himself. We already had one of those guys here. And yes that season was exciting and amazing. He still ended up broken. Because college QB's like Daniels and Griffen have no clue the mashing they are going to face at the next level. In all honesty RG3 was a lightyears better prospect than Daniels is. His arm was elite, his running was even more elite and yet he got destroyed. What makes Lamar special is he knows how to protect himself.

Edited December 14, 2023 by clskinsfan

[clskinsfan]

1 hour ago, The Consigliere said:

lot of people comp him to Baker, maybe a poor man's Baker

I actually think Sam is a better prospect than Baker. He has a WAY bigger arm and knows how to protect himself far better than Mayfield. Baker is probably a better decision maker right now. Bit Sam could grow into that. 

[mac8887]

1 hour ago, El Mexican said:

 

We are less than a handful of sacks away from having our WORST season ever in sacks allowed.

 

That's not hyperbole. That's fact.

 

Let that sink in. Worse than the Zorn era, worse than Heath Shuller era, worse than every season with The Dany around here, worse than the putrid last Shannahan season.

 

This is one of those times when OL-specific needs outweight everything else. It's not even a discussion.

But with all the cap space and all the day 2 picks you don't think we could field a serviceable oline, while still getting a possible blue chipper at qb. What if we pull a Dwayne haskins get our qb and if there is a tackle we really like then trade back into the first and get him. Use the cap space on some serviceable ends, and maybe a guard. We could probably get back into the 1st without even using a future first

[Chris 44]

On 12/10/2023 at 8:31 PM, kingdaddy said:

 

 

Just heard a wild stat. In the past 35 years  There have been  43 QBs drafted in the top 5, only 2 have won a suprbowl for the team that drafted them.

Going to have to look this up for myself. This doesn't sound quite right.

Edited December 15, 2023 by Chris 44

[Skinsinparadise]

28 minutes ago, clskinsfan said:

The guy is literally one NFL hit from a season ending/career ending injury. And even if he doesnt get hit he cant read huge holes in the secondary. MIGHT he become Lamar? Maybe. But he is YEARS away from being that IMO. Because he has no clue how to protect himself. We already had one of those guys here. And yes that season was exciting and amazing. He still ended up broken. Because college QB's like Danoels and Griffen have no clue the mashing they are going to face at the next level. In all honesty RG3 was a lightyears better prospect than Daniels is. His arm was elite, his running was even more elite and yet he got destroyed. What make Lamar special is he knows how to protect himself.

 

I was a big RG3 guy sadly.  No way IMO RG3's running was more elite.  That much I am willing to make a hard take on.   RG3 is probably a tick faster than Daniels but Daniels to me is a full peg better of a runner let alone inferior to RG3.  RG3 was straight line speed.  Daniels has plenty of zig and zag to his running.  The reason why he gets some Lamar comps is that he has some running back moves, especially in open field including a wicked spin move.  And like Lamar he's elusive in the pocket.

 

Daniels this year with 1134 yards, 8.4 YPC.  RG3 with 699 yards his senior year at 3.9 a carry.

 

They both won Heisman's.  Both killed it in their senior year.  Daniels stats maybe a hair better.  But he also did it versus the SEC not the Big 10.  They both have the flick of the wrist easy arm motion for the deep ball.   Agree that RG3 with the stronger arm but Daniels arm is strong enough.

 

The idea that RG3 is light years a better prospect is a hard argument IMO to make.  Now if the argument is RG3 has that charisma that Daniels doesnt have and in turn is a more "exciting" prospect, I agree with that. 

 

@The Consigliere summarized this one well for me.  There are some concerns he could get hurt or bust and likewise concerns he could be awesome and we skip the party.  This one feels very boom-bust.  I'd lean boom.  But I am not confident about it either way.  I need more info.  I did a long take on Daniels on the draft thread last week so I don't feel like regurgitating it here.  But nope I won't be celebrating if the Giants get Daniels. 

 

Hey even if I didn't like Daniels, I wouldn't celebrate it for the reason alone that many of their fans on twitter seem to worship the dude -- I'd rather them experience the pain of not getting whom they want.  I hate the Giants.

Edited December 15, 2023 by Skinsinparadise

[Skinsinparadise]

1 hour ago, Sacks 'n' Stuff said:

I mean, I want them to evaluate the quarterbacks and I’m sure they will. I just don’t think they are going to decide that any of the guys we have a shot at has any better chance of being our franchise quarterback than Sam does. Factoring in that you are giving up a chance to lockdown left tackle or pick some other stud, I’m confident that we’ll be going in a direction other than QB with that pick.

 

OK what if they evaluate the QBs and fall for one?  Would that bother you?

 

My point is I wouldn't be bothered either way.  Run it back with Howell.  Or they fall for name that guy.  Either approach I'd embrace.  And either approach IMO has a viable argument.

 

Edited December 15, 2023 by Skinsinparadise

[clskinsfan]

6 minutes ago, Skinsinparadise said:

RG3 was straight line speed.  Daniels has plenty of zig and zag

Thats fair. And I agree. Interesting to me that you dont consider RG3 a better prospect. IMO his arm is way above Daniels. Not that means anything in the end. Sufficient arms have been Hall of Famers. Maybe I am just broken from what happened with RG3. I was completely all in with him. He was a cant miss Pro Bowler to me. And I just dont see the same player or even close to the same player in Daniels. 

[Conn]

1 hour ago, El Mexican said:

 

We are less than a handful of sacks away from having our WORST season ever in sacks allowed.

 

That's not hyperbole. That's fact.

 

Let that sink in. Worse than the Zorn era, worse than Heath Shuller era, worse than every season with The Dany around here, worse than the putrid last Shannahan season.

 

This is one of those times when OL-specific needs outweight everything else. It's not even a discussion.

I’m aware. We have plenty of resources to rebuild the OL, a top-5 pick isn’t a cure-all for that position group. I want the best, most impactful player at that rare premium pick. And I also want various OL improvements. We can do both. If we trade down a bit, sure, take the OT. 
 

It will also be fun to have an OC who won’t exacerbate the negative impact of our worst position group out of pure stubbornness and lack of adaptability. It’s been hard to watch given we all knew this OL was ass in August. 

[Sacks 'n' Stuff]

5 minutes ago, Skinsinparadise said:

OK what if they evaluate the QBs and fall for one?  Would that bother you?

I’d be concerned but I’d get over it quick if the kid can play.

[Skinsinparadise]

13 minutes ago, clskinsfan said:

Thats fair. And I agree. Interesting to me that you dont consider RG3 a better prospect. IMO his arm is way above Daniels. Not that means anything in the end. Sufficient arms have been Hall of Famers. Maybe I am just broken from what happened with RG3. I was completely all in with him. He was a cant miss Pro Bowler to me. And I just dont see the same player or even close to the same player in Daniels. 

 

I can see the idea that they are in the same ball park but yeah tough for me to go with RG3 is much better at least not in my book.  Main reason is both of them -- their super weapon is their running ability and IMO and the stats back that Daniels is the better runner.

 

RG3 as we learned later didn't have the best field vision and struggled outside of RO.  With Daniels, tough to tell where that goes for him.  You can see him reading the field and go through progressions but just like any college QB tough to tell how that holds up in the pros.

 

I think the durability is a legit concern.  Can he protect himself like Russell Wilson or Lamar or is he like RG3?  I don't know where to classify Kyler Murray in that grouping, he finally got a big injury but it wasn't from a hit.

 

But watching the LSU coach below describe Jayden including using the word "electrifying" brings me back to RG3.  But not every QB ends their career in effect as tragically as RG3. 

 

 

 

 

Edited December 15, 2023 by Skinsinparadise

[skinsfan66]

1 hour ago, The Consigliere said:

You need to live in the real world. That's why he's a hold, "all the "Yes, but's," are what we can tell ourselves while we keep him and try to have him develop into a valuable asset either to start, or trade in '24 or the '25 offseason. But no team is going to give him the sunny explanation and excuse for any mistake he's made and accept it as definitive. Nobody, and why should they? They're buying, but they're going to assume all the ----- metrics can be explained away? That none of it is his fault? That the fact that he had exactly the same issues with sacks at UNC is about those bad teams and not him? Nobody's buying that except us. Do I think what you say could be true, or at least partially true? Sure. But if you're trying to trade the guy, teams are going to be honoring the threat of what he does well, but also honoring the reality of what he hasn't, so far, either in his last year with the Tar Heels, or in D.C. They're not taking our word for it when the #'s are there, right in front of you and right in front of them. You're selling all his strengths and papering over every glaring issue that's screaming in the background. Time will tell if he can overcome those issues or not, but they sure as ---- are issues right now worth worrying about, both for us, and for teams we might want to trade him too. Pretending otherwise is lunacy, and basing long term decision making on "hopes" rather than on real tangible numbers strikes me as the height of folly. 

 

And he still out played the no.1 pick and QB in last years draft who cost his coach to get fired mid season for making the pick. How did they get it all the wrong? the numbers, metrics?  Sam gets hit like every other 6 starting QB's we have had and he is still standing, their careers have ended in the NFL. Sam has a lot of things going for him that most of these young QB's do not.