2024 NFL Draft Position/Tracker - Final Pick #2

[Skinsinparadise]

38 minutes ago, kingdaddy said:

Montez looks great as a Bear....really great. He fits in well there. 

 

Watching the Bears defense in recent weeks, I've been impressed.  Montez seems like was a missing ingredient for them.  As bad of a season that the Jets, Pats and Bears have had at least their defense has flashed at times and even looked dominant.

 

It brings home what a crap job Ron did here especially this season.  This team holistically sucks, some of those other bad teams at least have a strong unit cooking for them.

Edited December 11, 2023 by Skinsinparadise

[RWJ]

1 minute ago, djpapeleta360 said:

Yeah. Only notables players we drafted with all them picks wad Chris Samuels and Lavar Arrington

 

Not even Arrington.  He lasts for a few seasons then he blew out his knee.  Samuels, yes.  

[Redskins 2021]

Just now, DiscoBob said:

If our new FO drafts a QB top 5, what could we get for Howell in a trade? Am I crazy to think there might be a team that would give us a late 1st?

 I doubt it because other teams would know we would be getting rid of him Probably a second.

[RWJ]

Just now, Skinsinparadise said:

 

Watching the Bears defense in recent weeks, I've been impressed.  Montez seems like was a missing ingredient for them.  As bad of seasons that the Jets, Pats and Bears have had at least their defense has flashed at times and even looked dominant.

 

It brings home what a crap job Ron did here especially this season.  This team holistically sucks, some of those other bad teams at least have a strong unit cooking for them.

Last time we really drafted well was with Beathard.  We shall see who Harris brings in.  I have to think Shen will play a part in the hiring of the GM. How much so is a mystery.  You'll have Irving talking to Harris in both ears.  

4 minutes ago, DiscoBob said:

If our new FO drafts a QB top 5, what could we get for Howell in a trade? Am I crazy to think there might be a team that would give us a late 1st?

I don't think Howell goes anywhere, whether we draft a QB with our 1st or later in the draft.  We need a backup QB.  I think he stays for another season and maybe the second year which would be his last year.  

[Chris 44]

25 minutes ago, kingdaddy said:

I saw enough of the Niners game today to see that Purdy has all day to throw the ball. Guys are wide open with the time he has. Made me think Sam can be the answer with better protection and some play-makers. 

Exactly what I was thinking watching Purdy. Give a Howell an OL and an OC and QB coach that will actually work on his game. Count me as someone who does not want to draft a QB.

[RWJ]

2 minutes ago, Chris 44 said:

Exactly what I was thinking watching Purdy. Give a Howell an OL and an OC and QB coach that will actually work on his game. Count me as someone who does not want to draft a QB.

You can have all of what you want and still draft a QB.  IF the new GM wants to draft a QB how many times are you sitting at #5, #4, #3 able to take a QB and you, Chris 44 get and I quote you:  " Give a Howell an OL and an OC and QB coach that will actually work on his game".  Dude not arguing but can you see the logic?   

[Sacks 'n' Stuff]

36 minutes ago, RWJ said:

Charely failed miserably with our picks 

He did not. He still landed the player that we wanted that year (Champ Bailey, who was one of the top players in the league at a premium position for well over a decade) then picked Jon Jansen in the 2nd round. He was named executive of the year by Sports Illustrated, Pro Football Weekly, The Sporting News and USA Today and the team was division champs, one point away from the NFC Championship game, and had enough ammo (3 first round picks) to secure the future success of the franchise for years to come...

 

So of course, Dan Snyder fired him and now here we are.

Edited December 11, 2023 by Sacks 'n' Stuff

[Skinsinparadise]

I don't see the decision being squarely about whether Howell will be better with more help.  Of course he will. The question is what's his ceiling?

 

And apples to apple's what's his ceiling compared to who they can draft. 

 

 

 

Edited December 11, 2023 by Skinsinparadise

[RWJ]

8 minutes ago, Sacks 'n' Stuff said:

He did not. He still landed the player that we wanted that year (Champ Bailey, who was one of the top players in the league at a premium position for well over a decade) then picked Jon Jansen in the 2nd round. He was named executive of the year by Sports Illustrated, Pro Football Weekly, The Sporting News and USA Today and the team was division champs, one point away from the NFC Championship game, and had enough ammo (3 first round picks) to secure the future success of the franchise for years to come...

 

So Dan Snyder fired him and here we are.

You say Charley succeeded.  Great. Your opinion.  I say he failed.  He had a plethora of picks and stunk the joint up.  My opinion.  What did he do after leaving the Redskins?  Was he successful?  Beathard was the last great GM we have had.  

Edited December 11, 2023 by RWJ

[kingdaddy]

Just now, Skinsinparadise said:

I don't see the decision being squarely about whether Howell will be better with more help.  Of course he will. The question is what's his ceiling?

 

And apples to apple's what's his ceiling compared to who they can draft. 

 

 

i agree....well stated.

[RWJ]

Just now, Skinsinparadise said:

I don't see the decision being squarely about whether Howell will be better with more help.  Of course he will. The question is what's his ceiling?

 

And apples to apple's what's his ceiling compared to who they can draft. 

 

 

I'll give you my answer, SIP.  We really don't know.  He's had one full year to play under a poor OL.  The next GM will play a huge roll in us finding out.  

[Sacks 'n' Stuff]

6 minutes ago, RWJ said:

You say Charley succeeded.  Great. Your opinion.  I say he failed.  He had a plethora of picks and stunk the joint up.

No, he didn’t. He picked two studs and we won the division. He didn’t get to make any of the selections in the following year’s draft because Dan wanted to play GM and fired him but Casserly left us with a championship roster and 3 first round picks.

Edited December 11, 2023 by Sacks 'n' Stuff

[Stone Cold]

16 minutes ago, Skinsinparadise said:

I don't see the decision being squarely about whether Howell will be better with more help.  Of course he will. The question is what's his ceiling?

 

And apples to apple's what's his ceiling compared to who they can draft. 

 

 

 

I wonder if we’re basing Sam’s projection on performance or draft position?  I mean to be honest, if we took Sam late in the 1st or even 2d rd, would we be satisfied with his performance this season?  Or, is his performance this year close to who he’s gonna be?

I don’t have the answer, but I do love me some Sammy Franchise.  And I feel that a MHJr, some real protection, and an offense that features motion to scheme players open could be the recipe we’re missing

Edited December 11, 2023 by Stone Cold

[Redskins 2021]

  I think we have to be in top 2 for a qb I just can't see that happening.

[kingdaddy]

1 minute ago, Redskins 2021 said:

  I think we have to be in top 2 for a qb I just can't see that happening.

There's a mock draft out right now where Caleb Williams drops to the 6th pick....has us taking Bowers, the TE. If we sit at 4 QB's could very well be in play depending on what Harrison does.

[Renegade7]

17 minutes ago, Skinsinparadise said:

I don't see the decision being squarely about whether Howell will be better with more help.  Of course he will. The question is what's his ceiling?

 

And apples to apple's what's his ceiling compared to who they can draft. 

 

 

 

 

We could be wrong about this and there'd be no going back. 

 

So ill also ask if the risk of trying to replace him is worth it compared to either known or fair estimate of his ceiling.

 

Of course we can do better then what he is right now, that's easy question to answer, is it worth trying right now or how bad does he force us to look is another.

 

I don't see him as forcing us to need to look for a QB, he's earned national respect at this point you her it everytime we play. And that bothers me about this conversation.  Just because we could pick a QB high right now doesn't mean we should.

[cakmoney61]

3 hours ago, Rufus T Firefly said:

Hopefully the Giants win But if they don't, their losing adds two Ls to out SOS and Green Bay beating them adds a W to theirs, as that is one of the three uncommon opponents on their schedule. 

 

So we'd probably move ahead of them in the tiebreaker. 

 

Edit: Depends on what the Broncos and Raiders each do, too. Would be nice to see the Chargers beat Denver.

A Giants win would make the SOS discussion moot.  And it's not impossible after the Packers' massive win against the Chiefs last week.  I could see them coming out flat.  Also, the Giants are at home and on a 2-game win streak.

[Skinsinparadise]

Carpe Diem for the NY Giants. Dream big the playoffs await you 

 

 

[kingdaddy]

1 minute ago, Renegade7 said:

 

We could be wrong about this and there'd be no going back. 

 

So ill also ask if the risk of trying to replace him is worth it compared to either known or fair estimate of his ceiling.

 

Of course we can do better then what he is right now, that's easy question to answer, is it worth trying right now or how bad does he force us to look is another.

 

I don't see him as forcing us to need to look for a QB, he's earned national respect at this point you her it everytime we play. And that bothers me about this conversation.  Just because we could pick a QB high right now doesn't mean we should.

When you haven't had a franchise QB since Sonny Jurgensen doesn't it make sense to draft one AND keep Howell until you find out which one is the future? For a team going nowhere for awhile, you could draft a QB, re-build the o-line and then find out who your guy is. The rookie could have the luxury of sitting and learning while we find out about Sam. Isn't this kind of how Favre was plucked from Atlanta by the Packers? It almost seems over cautious yet responsible at the same time. In other words, we'd better be damn sure that Howell is a franchise QB or we may blow a golden opportunity to draft a guy that is. 

[Redskins 2021]

13 minutes ago, kingdaddy said:

There's a mock draft out right now where Caleb Williams drops to the 6th pick....has us taking Bowers, the TE. If we sit at 4 QB's could very well be in play depending on what Harrison does.

 I guess it's possible but I would have to think somebody would move up for those two Qb. I am not a big believer in Dainels. 

Edited December 11, 2023 by Redskins 2021

[JamesMadisonSkins]

So everything happened perfectly today. I dont see the Giants winning a game rest of season. So I still think we’re pegged into #3/4. But things going our way so far. 

[Renegade7]

11 minutes ago, kingdaddy said:

When you haven't had a franchise QB since Sonny Jurgensen doesn't it make sense to draft one AND keep Howell until you find out which one is the future?

 

 

Show me one team that did that to their 23 yo starter of their most recent regular season and starter of every game of it and ill at least think about it.

 

Quote

For a team going nowhere for awhile, you could draft a QB, re-build the o-line and then find out who your guy is. The rookie could have the luxury of sitting and learning while we find out about Sam. Isn't this kind of how Favre was plucked from Atlanta by the Packers? It almost seems over cautious yet responsible at the same time. In other words, we'd better be damn sure that Howell is a franchise QB or we may blow a golden opportunity to draft a guy that is.

 

Farve was trade because he was a drug addict, someone else will have to speak to if they thought he was better then the person starting before him...i mean in your scenario, we draft a QB with a top 5 pick, Howell beats them out, then we trade that dude for peanuts on the dollar?

 

Nah, trade down so if Howell shows he can't be the guy in 2024 you can trade up for his replacement. We'll be bad enough that it won't be that hard, I promise.  I suggested this instead of taking Young, the more draft capital we have, the more options we really have.

Edited December 11, 2023 by Renegade7

[JamesMadisonSkins]

Put me down 1,000% for trading down. If we have the 2nd or 3rd and Maye is on the board you get that trade down and hopefully stay in the Top 6. We’d be looking at a 1st and 2nd and a 1st next year. That’s franchise changing return to likely drafting the position we desperately need anyway (OT)

Edited December 11, 2023 by JamesMadisonSkins

[Skinsinparadise]

8 minutes ago, Renegade7 said:

 

We could be wrong about this and there'd be no going back. 

 

So ill also ask if the risk of trying to replace him is worth it compared to either known or fair estimate of his ceiling.

 

Of course we can do better then what he is right now, that's easy question to answer, is it worth trying right now or how bad does he force us to look is another.

 

I don't see him as forcing us to need to look for a QB, he's earned national respect at this point you her it everytime we play. And that bothers me about this conversation.  Just because we could pick a QB high right now doesn't mean we should.

 

I didn’t say anything about Howell’s play forcing them to look for a QB. My point isn’t even a whit about looking for Plan B for Howell because of how he’s playing. If you read my comments on the QB thread I am VERY pro Howell and still am.

 

As for National love. I don’t care about it but to play on that point some still think he’s a low end starter or high end backup. And then some really like him. 

 

My point is I think it’s nuts to not consider if we are picking top 5.  It’s the GM’s job to give his best guess. 
 

it’s a big call. And he needs to have the balls to make the call one way or another.  What’s Howell’s upside versus whomever lands at their pick.
 

I like Sam but I don’t want to punt on a potential elite QB if the GM sees it that way and had questions about Sam’s upside. If being the operative word.

 

Every beat guy who covers this team seems to agree on this. I don’t think this is a far out position. I expect a QB will be considered heavily. With the operate word being considered as opposed to taken 

[JamesMadisonSkins]

Plan B would be the 2025 draft. And hopefully have a pair of 1sts to attack QB after you load the roster this year IF Howell bombs.