2023 Offseason Mini Camp, OTA’s, Training Camp Discussion Thread: Hallelujah, Josh Harris & Co. Era Edition

[Skinsinparadise]

5 hours ago, dyst said:

Regarding Quan, he got two penalties and gave up a wide open TD. It’s not so much people picking on him, but more so, he simply didn’t have a good game.

 

According to Finlay he recently had a bad practice, too.  but by and large I've heard he had a good camp.  I liked Quan predraft, still like him now. Not sure I like the pick though from the standpoint of 2023.  Not just because they didn't go O line but the idea that's become clear that he's not going to start.  Keim said recently he thinks his primary role will be to back up Kam Curl.

 

So by my count they will have one starter from the 2023 draft for this season with the rest being subs or developmental projects for the fuiture.  Juxtapose that with arguably the team in our division closest to our talent level, the Giants, who by my count will have at least 3 starters from this recent draft.

Edited August 15, 2023 by Skinsinparadise

[redskinss]

10 hours ago, xxprodigyxx said:

Was going through the depth chart and noticed a theme:

Brisket, Wild Goose, Mayo, Cheese(man) Curl, Pringle, Juste

 

Sounds like a good meal. I think Ron is hungry.

 

 

I see you brought the mayo but forgot the mustard.

 

 

Edited August 15, 2023 by redskinss

[Skinsinparadise]

 

The Commanders’ new-look O-line has a ‘razor-thin’ margin for error

 

 

In the offseason, the Washington Commanders addressed their three most glaring offensive weaknesses — quarterback, coordinator and line — with bets ranging from modest to massive. The line was a big gamble because it was one of the league’s worst units last year, and in the makeover, it got neither a shining star, such as new coordinator Eric Bieniemy, nor a high-floor fail-safe, such as quarterback Jacoby Brissett. The front office added midmarket veterans and mid-round draft picks and is counting on young players to grow into new roles.

 

 

In the opinion of four independent experts who reviewed film and data, the forecast for the Commanders’ line is not sunny. In addition, a senior personnel executive and two scouts for other teams, who spoke on the condition of anonymity, expressed similar pessimism. They project the line as a below-average unit with a mediocre ceiling and a basement floor, though they believe it has improved and won’t necessarily torpedo the offense. They think Washington can win with its line as it’s constructed — if it gets enough help from Bieniemy and quarterback Sam Howell.

The architects of the line, General Manager Martin Mayhew and executive vice president of football and player personnel Marty Hurney, declined to comment through a team spokesman.

 

Coach Ron Rivera said he re-watched Friday’s preseason opener at Cleveland and felt “very good” about the line. He acknowledged the tackles struggled — especially right tackle Andrew Wylie, who had two drive-killing penalties, including one for a safety — but he praised the play of the interior and said he expects individuals to improve and the unit to cohere over time.

 

“The mistakes we saw were all correctable,” Rivera said. “[It was] more individual technique than it was anything else. … I feel very comfortable with [the line] right now.”

The line will be tested again Tuesday and Wednesday during joint practices with the Baltimore Ravens.

“I’m excited to see what we get,” Rivera said. “That will be an even better test [than Cleveland]. This is a team that’s got a terrific defense. They’ve got tremendous reputation for being very physical up front, which is good for our guys.”

 

Why was the line built this way?

Externally, dim expectations reflect the front office’s relatively low investment. Washington’s salary cap spending on its line is $36.6 million, according to Over the Cap, which is the seventh lowest in the league. According to an analysis by Brandon Thorn, an offensive line expert and author of the “Trench Warfare” newsletter, the Commanders also have spent little draft capital on their line. Only two starters are homegrown: Cosmi (second round, 2021) and Charles (fourth, 2020) or Paul (seventh, 2022).

 

This offseason, the Commanders prioritized quarterback and defense. In free agency, they didn’t pursue top-of-the-market linemen. In the draft, Tennessee tackle Darnell Wright and TCU interior lineman Steve Avila were high on Washington’s board. But Chicago picked Wright at No. 10 and, after the Commanders spent their top choice on cornerback Emmanuel Forbes, the Los Angeles Rams took Avila early in the second round.

 

...If Forbes had been picked before Washington’s selection, and if the team couldn’t trade back, two people with knowledge of the team’s plans believe the Commanders would’ve selected Avila. A third person disputed that, saying No. 16 was too high for him. In the second round, one person said, Washington discussed trading up to grab Avila.

In the end, the Commanders drafted two linemen — third-round center Ricky Stromberg and fourth-round guard/tackle Braeden Daniels — but neither is slotted for a major role this year. Rivera has mentioned Stromberg when speaking optimistically about the line’s depth.

 

The Commanders know they lack elite talent but are betting on continuity, chemistry and coaching to elevate the line beyond the sum of its parts, according to one official, who spoke on the condition of anonymity to discuss sensitive evaluations. And though it doesn’t seem to have guided the Commanders’ decision-making, it’s worth noting: Studies from Pro Football Focus and Sumer Sports advise against overspending on the line because outcomes are often based more on the weakest link than the strongest.

 

What does the tape say?

This summer, Thorn studied the Commanders’ line and ranked it 31st in the NFL. He thought the group included one solid tackle (Leno), one promising prospect (Stromberg), two young wild cards (Cosmi and Paul) and three average-to-below-average vets (Charles, Gates and Wylie).

 

“Four out of five positions, to me, it’s either a complete uncertainty or you’re requiring a guy who has three or more years in the league to make a significant jump,” he said.

 

One of Thorn’s biggest concerns was Wylie. He thought the former Kansas City right tackle benefited greatly from the Chiefs’ elite quarterback and a scheme that aided tackles via formation, motion and chips. In true dropback passing situations, he noted, Kansas City tried to avoid leaving Wylie on an island.

 

“He was the fifth-best starter in K.C., and now he’s definitely counted on to be more than that,” Thorn said. “Maybe the second-best starter, which is a stretch.”

 

Edited August 15, 2023 by Skinsinparadise

[BatteredFanSyndrome]

20 minutes ago, redskinss said:

This, thank you!!!!!!!!

 

People think I'm some sort of eternal optimist that wants everybody to be positive and spend all day blowing sunshine up you know where but I'm not and I don't, I'm just tired of this crap.

We get it, you hate Ron, you want him fired, there are a lot of people who feel that way but they don't repeat it in multiple threads multiple times a day.

There’s a difference though in folks providing detail and context to support their critical opinions on the team and 88Comrade2000 writing the same post for zillionth time in every thread.

[redskinss]

2 minutes ago, BatteredFanSyndrome said:

There’s a difference though in folks providing detail and context to support their critical opinions on the team and 88Comrade2000 writing the same post for zillionth time in every thread.

Very much so.

[Skinsinparadise]

It's a long article some more of it.  In another part a PFF guy said he's not worried so much about the tackles in pass protection but worried on that front about the interior.  Personally I am the reverse on that specific to Wylie.

 

The point that Foriter made about PFF isn't into spending on the unit because they don't believe in having a weak link.  I think he's a bit confused at least from my listenings of the PFF guys on talk shows. 

 

The point they like to make on that (I have repeated it many times on different threads) is the same that they made about CB.  Which is they'd rather have good players throughout than one great one and a weak one.  their point is opposing defenses hone in on the weak link on the O line.  So don't load up on multiple studs while leaving a player who sucks on the line becauuse the dude who sucks will be exposed.

 

I do agree with the personnel guys who Foriter quoted below. Their take mirrors my point just about exactly -- below average, mediocre ceiling and a basement flood.  I also don't think it torpedos the offense on the aggregate where they suck.  I think they will beat the bad teams and compete with the mediocre ones.  But I do think it will bite them in key matchups against good teams.

 

"In addition, a senior personnel executive and two scouts for other teams, who spoke on the condition of anonymity, expressed similar pessimism. They project the line as a below-average unit with a mediocre ceiling and a basement floor, though they believe it has improved and won’t necessarily torpedo the offense." 

 

 

https://www.washingtonpost.com/sports/2023/08/15/commanders-offensive-line/

...Wylie’s technical flaws stood out. Three times, he “overset,” kicking out farther than he needed to in pass protection and exposing a soft inside shoulder for the defensive lineman to attack. The third time, Bieniemy called a play that included sending a running back to chip the rusher’s outside shoulder. But Wylie forgot or executed incorrectly, and when he overset again, he exposed his shoulder and blocked the running back from being able to help. Struggling to recover, he held the rusher, and the Browns forced a safety.

 

 

Juan Castillo, who has the title of tight ends coach but has led the Commanders’ line all camp, has tried to tweak Wylie’s footwork to be squarer during his pass sets.

 

In the locker room after the Cleveland game, Leno said he was disappointed by the line’s mistakes and missed assignments. Though his coaches would later see reasons for optimism, it was a clear moment of frustration.

“We took a step back in terms of today,” he said.

 

How can the Commanders help the line?

Schematically, Bieniemy can help his line with the same tactics he used in Kansas City. He can move the pocket (rollouts and bootlegs), ask for shorter blocks (quick passes and screens), make defenders uncertain (motion, play-action and run-pass options) or send extra blockers (double teams, “chip” help and tight formations).

 

The risk of relying on gadgetry and window dressing is they’re best in a narrow set of conditions. If the Commanders trail big, the opposing defense can worry less about the run or run fakes and force Washington to win with true dropback pass blocking, which probably will not be the strength of this relatively light unit.

 

 

But if Washington’s defense can keep games close, if Bieniemy can replicate Kansas City’s helpful schemes, if Howell can avoid big negative plays and if the linemen can develop and elevate one another, then the line should give the offense a chance to succeed.

“The margin for error is, I think, going to be pretty razor-thin,” Thorn said.

Every day on the field, Castillo hollers and drills his players on sets, techniques and situations. After practice Sunday, he said he wasn’t worried about external doubts or the Browns game.

“All I see is what we do and how we work,” he said. “[The personnel staff got] us good athletes that got big hearts and are smart. We’re going to be all right.”

Then he hustled inside the building, where he would continue trying to mold his linemen into the unit the front office believes they can be.

[Chris 44]

8 minutes ago, Skinsinparadise said:

It's a long article some more of it.  In another part a PFF guy said he's not worried so much about the tackles in pass protection but worried on that front about the interior.  Personally I am the reverse on that specific to Wylie.

 

The point that Foriter made about PFF isn't into spending on the unit because they don't believe in having a weak link.  I think he's a bit confused at least from my listenings of the PFF guys on talk shows. 

 

The point they like to make on that (I have repeated it many times on different threads) is the same that they made about CB.  Which is they'd rather have good players throughout than one great one and a weak one.  their point is opposing defenses hone in on the weak link on the O line.  So don't load up on multiple studs while leaving a player who sucks on the line becauuse the dude who sucks will be exposed.

 

I do agree with the personnel guys who Foriter quoted below. Their take mirrors my point just about exactly -- below average, mediocre ceiling and a basement flood.  I also don't think it torpedos the offense on the aggregate where they suck.  I think they will beat the bad teams and compete with the mediocre ones.  But I do think it will bite them in key matchups against good teams.

 

"In addition, a senior personnel executive and two scouts for other teams, who spoke on the condition of anonymity, expressed similar pessimism. They project the line as a below-average unit with a mediocre ceiling and a basement floor, though they believe it has improved and won’t necessarily torpedo the offense." 

 

 

https://www.washingtonpost.com/sports/2023/08/15/commanders-offensive-line/

...Wylie’s technical flaws stood out. Three times, he “overset,” kicking out farther than he needed to in pass protection and exposing a soft inside shoulder for the defensive lineman to attack. The third time, Bieniemy called a play that included sending a running back to chip the rusher’s outside shoulder. But Wylie forgot or executed incorrectly, and when he overset again, he exposed his shoulder and blocked the running back from being able to help. Struggling to recover, he held the rusher, and the Browns forced a safety.

 

 

Juan Castillo, who has the title of tight ends coach but has led the Commanders’ line all camp, has tried to tweak Wylie’s footwork to be squarer during his pass sets.

 

In the locker room after the Cleveland game, Leno said he was disappointed by the line’s mistakes and missed assignments. Though his coaches would later see reasons for optimism, it was a clear moment of frustration.

“We took a step back in terms of today,” he said.

 

How can the Commanders help the line?

Schematically, Bieniemy can help his line with the same tactics he used in Kansas City. He can move the pocket (rollouts and bootlegs), ask for shorter blocks (quick passes and screens), make defenders uncertain (motion, play-action and run-pass options) or send extra blockers (double teams, “chip” help and tight formations).

 

The risk of relying on gadgetry and window dressing is they’re best in a narrow set of conditions. If the Commanders trail big, the opposing defense can worry less about the run or run fakes and force Washington to win with true dropback pass blocking, which probably will not be the strength of this relatively light unit.

 

 

But if Washington’s defense can keep games close, if Bieniemy can replicate Kansas City’s helpful schemes, if Howell can avoid big negative plays and if the linemen can develop and elevate one another, then the line should give the offense a chance to succeed.

“The margin for error is, I think, going to be pretty razor-thin,” Thorn said.

Every day on the field, Castillo hollers and drills his players on sets, techniques and situations. After practice Sunday, he said he wasn’t worried about external doubts or the Browns game.

“All I see is what we do and how we work,” he said. “[The personnel staff got] us good athletes that got big hearts and are smart. We’re going to be all right.”

Then he hustled inside the building, where he would continue trying to mold his linemen into the unit the front office believes they can be.

Not to belabor the point, put it just really bothers me that the season, Howells development, what appears to be above average talent at the skill positions, are all riding on an O line that could have been fixed or at least greatly improved with just a little more foresight and the addition of one competent tackle and one competent guard.

[Skinsinparadise]

 

 

[DWinzit]

19 minutes ago, Skinsinparadise said:

It's a long article some more of it.  In another part a PFF guy said he's not worried so much about the tackles in pass protection but worried on that front about the interior.  Personally I am the reverse on that specific to Wylie.

 

The point that Foriter made about PFF isn't into spending on the unit because they don't believe in having a weak link.  I think he's a bit confused at least from my listenings of the PFF guys on talk shows. 

 

The point they like to make on that (I have repeated it many times on different threads) is the same that they made about CB.  Which is they'd rather have good players throughout than one great one and a weak one.  their point is opposing defenses hone in on the weak link on the O line.  So don't load up on multiple studs while leaving a player who sucks on the line becauuse the dude who sucks will be exposed.

 

I do agree with the personnel guys who Foriter quoted below. Their take mirrors my point just about exactly -- below average, mediocre ceiling and a basement flood.  I also don't think it torpedos the offense on the aggregate where they suck.  I think they will beat the bad teams and compete with the mediocre ones.  But I do think it will bite them in key matchups against good teams.

 

"In addition, a senior personnel executive and two scouts for other teams, who spoke on the condition of anonymity, expressed similar pessimism. They project the line as a below-average unit with a mediocre ceiling and a basement floor, though they believe it has improved and won’t necessarily torpedo the offense." 

 

 

https://www.washingtonpost.com/sports/2023/08/15/commanders-offensive-line/

...Wylie’s technical flaws stood out. Three times, he “overset,” kicking out farther than he needed to in pass protection and exposing a soft inside shoulder for the defensive lineman to attack. The third time, Bieniemy called a play that included sending a running back to chip the rusher’s outside shoulder. But Wylie forgot or executed incorrectly, and when he overset again, he exposed his shoulder and blocked the running back from being able to help. Struggling to recover, he held the rusher, and the Browns forced a safety.

 

 

Juan Castillo, who has the title of tight ends coach but has led the Commanders’ line all camp, has tried to tweak Wylie’s footwork to be squarer during his pass sets.

 

In the locker room after the Cleveland game, Leno said he was disappointed by the line’s mistakes and missed assignments. Though his coaches would later see reasons for optimism, it was a clear moment of frustration.

“We took a step back in terms of today,” he said.

 

How can the Commanders help the line?

Schematically, Bieniemy can help his line with the same tactics he used in Kansas City. He can move the pocket (rollouts and bootlegs), ask for shorter blocks (quick passes and screens), make defenders uncertain (motion, play-action and run-pass options) or send extra blockers (double teams, “chip” help and tight formations).

 

The risk of relying on gadgetry and window dressing is they’re best in a narrow set of conditions. If the Commanders trail big, the opposing defense can worry less about the run or run fakes and force Washington to win with true dropback pass blocking, which probably will not be the strength of this relatively light unit.

 

 

But if Washington’s defense can keep games close, if Bieniemy can replicate Kansas City’s helpful schemes, if Howell can avoid big negative plays and if the linemen can develop and elevate one another, then the line should give the offense a chance to succeed.

“The margin for error is, I think, going to be pretty razor-thin,” Thorn said.

Every day on the field, Castillo hollers and drills his players on sets, techniques and situations. After practice Sunday, he said he wasn’t worried about external doubts or the Browns game.

“All I see is what we do and how we work,” he said. “[The personnel staff got] us good athletes that got big hearts and are smart. We’re going to be all right.”

Then he hustled inside the building, where he would continue trying to mold his linemen into the unit the front office believes they can be.

EBs first decision after coming here appears to be bringing Wylie with him. That was due to his familiarity...which should have told him, he is not a RT. This is beginning to scare me about him. I am now more leaning towards Lucas out there even though he ins't that mobile, he should be able to help Sam more that Wylie on the outside.

[Always A Commander Never A Captain]

10 hours ago, mhd24 said:

Listened to Paulson today and he was surprisingly bullish on Daniels.  Thought he showed some real nice athleticism.

 

Did he say anything about his quality of play besides his athleticism? We already know he's athletic. If that's all Paulson mentioned then it's the phrase "damning with faint praise", for struggling to find positives.

[redskinss]

13 minutes ago, Chris 44 said:

Not to belabor the point, put it just really bothers me that the season, Howells development, what appears to be above average talent at the skill positions, are all riding on an O line that could have been fixed or at least greatly improved with just a little more foresight and the addition of one competent tackle and one competent guard.

It is surprising that the guy who is on the hot seat wouldn't put more emphasis on the teams weakest link but from a fan standpoint there's another way to look at it.

All those weapons will still be here next year and the new owners will have what looks like zero bad contracts and a ton of cap space to fill the few holes we have left and if this regime doesn't have success this year with what they've done of their own making it'll be a new front office filling those gaps.

 

Really a win win when you look at it that way.

[Chris 44]

6 minutes ago, redskinss said:

It is surprising that the guy who is on the hot seat wouldn't put more emphasis on the teams weakest link but from a fan standpoint there's another way to look at it.

All those weapons will still be here next year and the new owners will have what looks like zero bad contracts and a ton of cap space to fill the few holes we have left and if this regime doesn't have success this year with what they've done of their own making it'll be a new front office filling those gaps.

 

Really a win win when you look at it that way.

I guess my concern with that would be Howell. Will we see everything we need to in order to determine if we have our starter going forward if he spends this season running for his life?

[RandyHolt]

5 minutes ago, redskinss said:

It is surprising that the guy who is on the hot seat wouldn't put more emphasis on the teams weakest link but from a fan standpoint there's another way to look at it.

All those weapons will still be here next year and the new owners will have what looks like zero bad contracts and a ton of cap space to fill the few holes we have left and if this regime doesn't have success this year with what they've done of their own making it'll be a new front office filling those gaps.

 

Really a win win when you look at it that way.

Wait, having a ~ league worst OL while trying to groom a QB is a win win?  Howell will be running for his career and we may be lucky to not have to target QB and OL next spring.

[redskinss]

2 minutes ago, Chris 44 said:

I guess my concern with that would be Howell. Will we see everything we need to in order to determine if we have our starter going forward if he spends this season running for his life?

It's a concern but I don't buy too much into the ruin a quarterback thing, if the guys the guy he'll overcome.

It might be difficult to get a good read on what we have if he's under too much pressure but you can still tell.

He played behind a horrendous line in Dallas and overcame it and he did the same last week.

It is definitely the primary concern but the rest is still true.

[Skinsinparadise]

33 minutes ago, Chris 44 said:

Not to belabor the point, put it just really bothers me that the season, Howells development, what appears to be above average talent at the skill positions, are all riding on an O line that could have been fixed or at least greatly improved with just a little more foresight and the addition of one competent tackle and one competent guard.

 

That article spelled out, some of the rumors we heard about the draft.  No secret they liked Wright, Fortier doubles down on it.  We also heard previously they loved Avila, too. We heard about their interest as to trading up for him, I've heard from multiple reports.  But taking him at 16?  That would have been wild.  But granted there are mixed takes on that.  So at a minimum sounds like there was some disagreement on taking Avila in the first but none as to the 2nd round.

 

Just moving parts for me on the narrative that I think add up to an obvious narrative.

 

A.  They clearly had some hot desires in the draft for the O line in round 1 and 2.  Keim spelled that out in advance.  Fortier doubles down on it here.  Basically, they'd have loved to come out in the first two rounds with Wright and Avila or at least one of the two.

 

B.  Ron starting the off season about how the O line is the code red spot and that was the spot that sank last years team

 

C.  Logan and Keim (who talk to good sources with the team) like to echo the idea that they are hoping together this unit is better than how the players stack up individually.

 

D.  Referencing back to point C, they clearly admit that this isn't a hot unit as for individual talent

 

So they are banking on continuity and the sum of the parts will be greater than the whole, while in other interviews use the excuse that its 4 new players in new positions so continuity-chemistry might be an issue, plus they are learning an offense so give them patience.   Weird. 

 

if you take them at their word and run through the logic, they likely don't think the unit will be hot early on but they will be coached up so well that at some point their weakness of not having that chemistry of playing together will snap into a strength.

 

Interesting that Hurney and Mayhew wouldn't comment on the story, they've commented on other stories in the past.  Lets couple that idea with Mayhew post draft confessing out loud that he regrets not trading up.  Clearly that dude was likely Avila.

 

I don't think these coaches are stupid.  So my guess of what really happened is similar to what I previously guessed.  They knew they didn't kill it in FA as to the O line but they didn't feel like they needed to do so because they'd use the draft to finish the job.  But when the dominos didn't fall the way they expected in the draft, it thwarted their gamble.  They likely didn't see it as much of a gamble when they did it because Wright in particular was expected to go that early.  

 

Once they played these cards, now they got to sell it like they were cool with these scenarios the whole time.  But I think Ron gambled and lost.   I'd guess this FO is concerned.   Ron strikes me (he deems himself this) as an uber optimist and sold himself that the glass is half full.  He just about always seems to convince himself that the answer for name that problem already exists on the roster.  My hope is if this is the case that Ron wouldn't be so stubborn and not take advantage of an opportubity to upgrade the unit if a chances arises. 

 

The next 2 days should be telling.  Hopefully the O line plays well and dampens the concerns.  But if it struggles, hopefully Risner or other players that might become available are under consideration.  And I am 100% with @Koolblue13 in that i'd feel much better if Wylie plays inside.

Edited August 15, 2023 by Skinsinparadise

[KDawg]

11 minutes ago, RandyHolt said:

Wait, having a ~ league worst OL while trying to groom a QB is a win win?  

No. It's cope for the sake of it.

Edited August 15, 2023 by KDawg

[Skinsinparadise]

9 minutes ago, RandyHolt said:

Wait, having a ~ league worst OL while trying to groom a QB is a win win?  Howell will be running for his career and we may be lucky to not have to target QB and OL next spring.

 

Rivera is trying the Spurrier Patrick Ramsey shock therapy version of grooming a QB. 

 

 

[Chris 44]

7 minutes ago, Skinsinparadise said:

 

That article spelled out, some of the rumors we heard about the draft.  No secret they liked Wright, Fortier doubles down on it.  We also heard previously they loved Avila, too. We heard about their interest as to trading up for him, I've heard from multiple reports.  But taking him at 16?  That would have been wild.  But granted there are mixed takes on that.  So at a minimum sounds like there was some disagreement on taking Avila in the first but none as to the 2nd round.

 

Just moving parts for me on the narrative that I think add up to an obvious narrative.

 

A.  They clearly had some hot desires in the draft for the O line in round 1 and 2.  Keim spelled that out in advance.  Fortier doubles down on it here.  Basically, they'd have loved to come out in the first two rounds with Wright and Avila or at least one of the two.

 

B.  Ron starting the off season about how the O line is the code red spot and that was the spot that sank last years team

 

C.  Logan and Keim (who talk to good sources with the team) like to echo the idea that they are hoping together this unit is better than how the players stack up individually.

 

D.  Referencing back to point C, they clearly admit that this isn't a hot unit as for individual talent

 

So they are banking on continuity and the sum of the parts will be greater than the whole, while in other interviews use the excuse that its 4 new players in new positions so continuity-chemistry might be an issue, plus they are learning an offense so give them patience.   Weird. 

 

if you take them at their word and run through the logic, they likely don't think the unit will be hot early on but they will be coached up so well that at some point their weakness of not having that chemistry of playing together will snap into a strength.

 

Interesting that Hurney and Mayhew wouldn't comment on the story, they've commented on other stories in the past.  Lets couple that idea with Mayhew post draft confessing out loud that he regrets not trading up.  Clearly that dude was likely Avila.

 

I don't think these coaches are stupid.  So my guess of what really happened is similar to what I previously guessed.  They knew they didn't kill it in FA as to the O line but they didn't feel like they needed to do so because they'd use the draft to finish the job.  But when the dominos didn't fall the way they expected in the draft, it thwarted their gamble.  They likely didn't see it as much of a gamble when they did it because Wright in particular was expected to go that early.  

 

Once they played these cards, now they got to sell it like they were cool with these scenarios the whole time.  But I think Ron gambled and lost.   I'd guess this FO is concerned.   Ron strikes me (he deems himself this) as an uber optimist and sold himself that the glass is half full.  He just about always seems to convince himself that the answer for name that problem already exists on the roster.  My hope is if this is the case that Ron wouldn't be so stubborn and not take advantage of an opportubity to upgrade the unit if a chances arises. 

 

The next 2 days should be telling.  Hopefully the O line plays well and dampens the concerns.  But if it struggles, hopefully Risner or other players that might become available are under consideration.  And I am 100% with @Koolblue13 in that i'd feel much better if Wylie plays inside.

Yeah I think you are 100% correct in that they knew it was a need, had a plan but the plan did not fall into place due to various moving parts and are now trying to put a good face on it. Still a big failure on not adjusting to the changing landscape of their plan.

[zCommander]

10 hours ago, 88Comrade2000 said:

GM Ron will have made it easier for Coach Ron to be retired.

 

Whatever doesn’t work this year , will be addressed next year. The holes we ignore or just keep getting wrong; will be a thing of the past.

 

It won’t happen right away but I expect the new Gm and his coach will have a plan to make us consistent winners. If they are convinced Sam is guy, that’s one less hole but if qb needs to be addressed; they will do what is needed.

 

Hey you might want to replace your crystal ball. It keeps on repeating the same thing over and over again. You're welcome!

[Skinsinparadise]

3 minutes ago, Chris 44 said:

Yeah I think you are 100% correct in that they knew it was a need, had a plan but the plan did not fall into place due to various moving parts and are now trying to put a good face on it. Still a big failure on not adjusting to the changing landscape of their plan.

 

Big time.  And I think Ron was willing to roll the dice because for whatever reason that's the unit he's willing to take chances with.

 

Mitch Tischler, played O line in college, from Finlay's podcast summarized it the same way i like to.    When Ron talks about winning in the trenches -- you can't take it overly seriously because the trenches means BOTH units.   The O line and the D line.  Not just the D line.

 

He's about to practice against a team that truly values the trenches.   the Ravens seem as obssessed with the O line as they are the D line.  Rivera clearly is not.  

Edited August 15, 2023 by Skinsinparadise

[mhd24]

3 minutes ago, Skinsinparadise said:

 

Big time.  And I think Ron was willing to roll the dice because for whatever reason that's the unit he's willing to take chances with.

 

Mitch Tischler, played O line in college, from Finlay's podcast summarized it the same way i like to.    When Ron talks about winning in the trenches -- you can't take it overly seriously because the trenches means BOTH units.   The O line and the D line.  Not just the D line.

 

He's about to practice against a team that truly values the trenches.   the Ravens seem as obssessed with the O line as they are the D line.  Rivera clearly is not.  

 

Don't know how much of a test it will be for the OL (or could be even more of an indictment).  Listened to JLC on the Lombardi podcast and he said DE (along with CB) is the weakest unit on the Ravens.  They'll sign a vet in the coming days according to JLC.  I think the Ravens finish last in that strong division.  Never count Tomlin out.  I have it Bengals, Steelers, Browns, Ravens.

[redskinss]

10 minutes ago, KDawg said:

No. It's cope for the sake of it.

And what if they had signed the two best offensive lineman available and they turned out to be william Jackson the 4th and 5th.

Next year everybody would be steaming that the new coach and gm have to deal with those contracts. 

[MartinC]

12 minutes ago, Skinsinparadise said:

 

Rivera is trying the Spurrier Patrick Ramsey shock therapy version of grooming a QB. 

 

 

At least we have hot routes and more than 3 protection calls!

[Skinsinparadise]

5 minutes ago, mhd24 said:

 

Don't know how much of a test it will be for the OL (or could be even more of an indictment).  Listened to JLC on the Lombardi podcast and he said DE (along with CB) is the weakest unit on the Ravens.  They'll sign a vet in the coming days according to JLC.  I think the Ravens finish last in that strong division.  Never count Tomlin out.  I have it Bengals, Steelers, Browns, Ravens.

 

Good point.  Just looked at their lineup.  Right now its more of a run stopping D line than a pass rush one.

 

i was running with Rivera's statement the other day where he basically said the Ravens would be a better test than the Browns for the unit.

Edited August 15, 2023 by Skinsinparadise

[RandyHolt]

12 minutes ago, Skinsinparadise said:

 

Rivera is trying the Spurrier Patrick Ramsey shock therapy version of grooming a QB. 

 

 

LOL. I can remember vividly Ramsey classic a deer in the headlights just getting pummeled repeatedly before finally walking off the field in a daze. Career over.