2023 Offseason Mini Camp, OTA’s, Training Camp Discussion Thread: Hallelujah, Josh Harris & Co. Era Edition

[KDawg]

1 minute ago, Conn said:

Eh. I’ve thought the same in the past (moving him to a public facing role in the FO without roster control or personnel/coaching input). I’m wavering on that. I get the sentiment but I don’t really want to be represented by someone who doesn’t have conviction in the way they conduct themselves (or doesn’t conduct themselves in a manner that represents how they wish to be perceived, either way is a problem to me). I think that was a very revealing quote from Rivera there, about being constantly, distractingly aware of what he’s saying and doing because he’s worried what others will see and (at the time) what his mother would think. That locker room should be his home and his pulpit—he shouldn’t feel the need to alter his behavior in front of the cameras out of self-consciousness. It shouldn’t be that sort of distraction for someone in such a powerful role imo (his concerns with others in the org being distracted I can understand, even if I think it’s overblown and more of a leadership problem than a Hard Knocks problem). 
 

I’m absolutely reading more into it than is normal, but Rivera says a lot of things just to say them and has lots of friends in the national media who buttress his reputation to almost a mythical level with the “respectable good guy Rivera” talk. I do think he’s a nice, good guy generally. I’ve rarely seen someone who loses so much so consistently be given such a long rope for being a nice guy, reputationally. So I’m starting to think that I don’t really see any reason to have him be the face of our org—communicating with the media is not one of his strong suits despite his strong relationships in the media, oddly. 

 

He does. Which is why he’s a great figure head.

 

He won’t embarrass the team, the owners or the players. He won’t be involved in scandals. He won’t be stuck in a place where agents are not wanting to deal with Washington because of his forward facing persona.

 

He is the literal face of marketability, accountability and he’s safe. 
 

He’s perfect for that role. 
 

It doesn’t matter if it’s genuine, forced, or a combo. He’s disciplined. That matters.

[Skinsinparadise]

12 minutes ago, Conn said:

Eh. I’ve thought the same in the past (moving him to a public facing role in the FO without roster control or personnel/coaching input). I’m wavering on that. I get the sentiment but I don’t really want to be represented by someone who doesn’t have conviction in the way they conduct themselves (or doesn’t conduct themselves in a manner that represents how they wish to be perceived, either way is a problem to me). I think that was a very revealing quote from Rivera there, about being constantly, distractingly aware of what he’s saying and doing because he’s worried what others will see and (at the time) what his mother would think. That locker room should be his home and his pulpit—he shouldn’t feel the need to alter his behavior in front of the cameras out of self-consciousness. It shouldn’t be that sort of distraction for someone in such a powerful role imo (his concerns with others in the org being distracted I can understand, even if I think it’s overblown and more of a leadership problem than a Hard Knocks problem). 
 

I’m absolutely reading more into it than is normal, but Rivera says a lot of things just to say them and has lots of friends in the national media who buttress his reputation to almost a mythical level with the “respectable good guy Rivera” talk. I do think he’s a nice, good guy generally. I’ve rarely seen someone who loses so much so consistently be given such a long rope for being a nice guy, reputationally. So I’m starting to think that I don’t really see any reason to have him be the face of our org—communicating with the media is not one of his strong suits despite his strong relationships in the media, oddly. 

 

 

Some good points here.

 

I loved Ron in the context of being here with Dan on three fronts.

 

A.  Brought likeability and integrity to a team starving for those qualities

 

B.  By giving him FO power it mitigated Dan's FO power.  Or at least I thought it did. 

 

C.  He's not some coaching savant but he's competent.

 

But with Dan out the window, Ron's value has sunk with me.  I've actually been consistent on that point, too.  I said as soon as it was clear that a sale was happening -- everything being equal, I'd like to move on from Ron.  But a sliver of me was OK with Ron staying. 

 

But now that a new owner is on the way -- Ron's style has grated on me some.  It's the combination of him being uber conscious of his image yet says one thing one week and does something entirely different or says something entirely different.  Al Galdi talks about this frequently on his podcasts as a joke -- what Ron says this week and what he does or says a week later could end up something totally different. 

 

At the time it felt like hyperbole.  It still to some extent feels like hyperbole.  But its certainly a real dynamic and its grating on me now in a way that it didn't grate on me before.

 

The thing I find the most annoying is for a dude who is supposedly laser focused on regaining the fans back -- he's done zero to help Harris keep the likely fan momentum that's headed their way at the beginning of the season.   And praising Dan as he leaves this franchise doubles down that he has zero clue about this fan base.    So do we want someone like that representing the franchise?  He has the right personality for it.   Good dude. But IMO he has no sense of his customer base.  

Edited June 16, 2023 by Skinsinparadise

[Warhead36]

Rivera is who we needed at the time.

 

But I want someone who is a better in game tactician and more cutting edge and comfortable with analytics.

 

To use an analogy: Ron Rivera is for us what Jeff Fisher was for the Rams. Took them from league joke to at least respectable but still too mediocre to win. Then Sean McVay comes in to take them to the next level.

[Skinsinparadise]

13 minutes ago, KDawg said:

He does. Which is why he’s a great figure head.

 

He won’t embarrass the team, the owners or the players. He won’t be involved in scandals. He won’t be stuck in a place where agents are not wanting to deal with Washington because of his forward facing persona.

 

He is the literal face of marketability, accountability and he’s safe. 
 

He’s perfect for that role. 
 

It doesn’t matter if it’s genuine, forced, or a combo. He’s disciplined. That matters.

 

For me it depends on the role.  I wouldn't want him overseeing coaches or personnel.  I wouldn't want him in charge of ticket sales/marketing either for reasons I expressed in other posts.

 

So not quite sure what's left that he'd take?

Edited June 16, 2023 by Skinsinparadise

[KDawg]

2 minutes ago, Skinsinparadise said:

 

For me it depends on the role.  I wouldn't want him overseeing coaches or personnel.  I wouldn't want him in charge of ticket sales/marketing either for reasons I expressed in other posts.

 

So not quite sure what's left that he'd take?

President. They can be set up as pure figure heads. Leave the others in charge of the real jobs.

[Skinsinparadise]

Standig

Edited June 16, 2023 by Skinsinparadise

[FootballZombie]

4 minutes ago, Skinsinparadise said:

So not quite sure what's left that he'd take?

 

1 minute ago, KDawg said:

President. They can be set up as pure figure heads. Leave the others in charge of the real jobs.

 

 

Magic Johnson role would be ideal for me. Roll him out in front of cameras when you need to reach the fanbase.

 

 

He's basically been our GM for the last several years, so I don't want a continuation of that at the moment.

And if you think he is boring as a GM/HC, dude will put us back to the stone age if given a Jason Wright-like role. Dude will delete our social media account and stop selling team branded ping-pong tables.

[Conn]

31 minutes ago, KDawg said:

He does. Which is why he’s a great figure head.

 

He won’t embarrass the team, the owners or the players. He won’t be involved in scandals. He won’t be stuck in a place where agents are not wanting to deal with Washington because of his forward facing persona.

 

He is the literal face of marketability, accountability and he’s safe. 
 

He’s perfect for that role. 
 

It doesn’t matter if it’s genuine, forced, or a combo. He’s disciplined. That matters.

 

I just think people are partially blinded by his rep. I think there are dozens of women who Snyder (recently!) attempted to intimidate who would disagree that Rivera never says anything controversial, given about a month ago he insisted that he couldn’t understand why people wouldn’t leave Snyder alone and believe he’s changed. Nobody expects him to be a snake like Wright but he didn’t need to say all that, he could have used coach speak and said essentially nothing. He’s tone deaf and getting more so as he ages imo. I agree his rep is bulletproof so far, but the guy always feels half a sentence from sticking his foot in his mouth to me. I just don’t see it anymore. 

[KDawg]

38 minutes ago, Conn said:

 

I just think people are partially blinded by his rep. I think there are dozens of women who Snyder (recently!) attempted to intimidate who would disagree that Rivera never says anything controversial, given about a month ago he insisted that he couldn’t understand why people wouldn’t leave Snyder alone and believe he’s changed. Nobody expects him to be a snake like Wright but he didn’t need to say all that, he could have used coach speak and said essentially nothing. He’s tone deaf and getting more so as he ages imo. I agree his rep is bulletproof so far, but the guy always feels half a sentence from sticking his foot in his mouth to me. I just don’t see it anymore. 

Maybe.

 

I hadn’t heard that quote. 
 

This organization is a deathbed for careers. Hopefully that changes.

[Whiskeypeet]

1 hour ago, Conn said:

I’ve rarely seen someone who loses so much so consistently be given such a long rope for being a nice guy, reputationally.

 

 

Norv Turner wants you to hold his beer.

[Koolblue13]

If we can't get Hard Knocks, maybe we can get Tanya back to make another wire clothes hanger sculpture of one of our former players again.

3 minutes ago, Whiskeypeet said:

 

Norv Turner wants you to hold his beer.

Outside of Gibbs II, Norv has the highest win percentage of all of our non-one year coaches since Dan bought us.  

[Whiskeypeet]

5 minutes ago, Koolblue13 said:

Outside of Gibbs II, Norv has the highest win percentage of all of our non-one year coaches since Dan bought us.  

 

Just kill me now.  

[EatsMoreChicken]

Individual storylines are a big part of what make a lot of people fans of any given organization—supporting an individual turns into supporting the team. Hard Knocks lets people, especially people who don’t follow this team, see the players as individuals and find new players to root for. Great way to get some new fans 

[KDawg]

35 minutes ago, EatsMoreChicken said:

Individual storylines are a big part of what make a lot of people fans of any given organization—supporting an individual turns into supporting the team. Hard Knocks lets people, especially people who don’t follow this team, see the players as individuals and find new players to root for. Great way to get some new fans 

Someone on local sports talk was talking about Diggs and receivers who are comparable.

 

They have a list of about 15-20 names. 
 

None were McLaurin. McLaurin is every bit in Diggs’ class. I view them as very similar to each other as players.

 

That is because McLaurin plays here.

[Est.1974]

Rivera’s time is up. I thought he’d be out by September, not looking likely.  It’s all just very tired and old. My God I hope new Ownership just blow every single element of coaching and FO apart.

[Conn]

2 hours ago, Whiskeypeet said:

 

Just kill me now.  

 

[Warhead36]

1 hour ago, KDawg said:

Someone on local sports talk was talking about Diggs and receivers who are comparable.

 

They have a list of about 15-20 names. 
 

None were McLaurin. McLaurin is every bit in Diggs’ class. I view them as very similar to each other as players.

 

That is because McLaurin plays here.

I don't think McLaurin is as good as Diggs but that's not a knock on McLaurin at all. Diggs is in that elite class. McLaurin is a tier below.

 

Then again, if you flip our QBs the last few years with Josh Allen....

Edited June 16, 2023 by Warhead36

[AlvinWaltonIsMyBoy]

I think the over the top skewering of Rivera is…over the top. 
 

I’m disappointed that we didn’t grab another OL starter but I liked our draft. 
 

Snyder is gone. Bienemy is OC. We’ve got a an exciting young QB. The flame throwers he’s getting are overdone I think. 

[Est.1974]

35 minutes ago, Warhead36 said:

I don't think McLaurin is as good as Diggs but that's not a knock on McLaurin at all. Diggs is in that elite class. McLaurin is a tier below.

 

Then again, if you flip our QBs the last few years with Josh Allen....

Agree, Diggs is another level. Pure class.

[MrJL]

So, would someone explain to me why some fans care about how other teams fanbases react to us?  I honestly can only get part of it.  I mean, I certainly understand not wanting to be insulted about the team.  But I don't quite get why being an after thought would be a bad thing.  Like even in Gibbs era the 49ers were the team that was the Dynasty, and in the early 80s people still wondered if the Cowboys would recover and be a threat again and in the late 80s with LT and Simms I think the Giants were more talked about than us, and in the AFC you had so many superstar QBs, Marino and Elway as soon as they came in, then Moon quickly joined in and then Kelly added to the list by the late 80s.

[xxprodigyxx]

1 hour ago, AlvinWaltonIsMyBoy said:

I think the over the top skewering of Rivera is…over the top. 
 

I’m disappointed that we didn’t grab another OL starter but I liked our draft. 
 

Snyder is gone. Bienemy is OC. We’ve got a an exciting young QB. The flame throwers he’s getting are overdone I think. 

yeah...maybe the roster isn't the best, but i think it's in a far better state than after gruden got ousted.

[KDawg]

1 hour ago, Est.1974 said:

Agree, Diggs is another level. Pure class.

That could be debated.

[xxprodigyxx]

1 hour ago, Est.1974 said:

Agree, Diggs is another level. Pure class.

i definitely disagree on the "class" part. he's not the kind of leader or culture builder like mclaurin is.

 

i'd say they are on relatively equal footing as players. his first three years, diggs was worse statistically than terry with a slightly better quarterback carousel and, at least, one other legitimate wr threat...terry did not have that in his first 3 years. 

[Conn]

3 hours ago, MrJL said:

So, would someone explain to me why some fans care about how other teams fanbases react to us?  I honestly can only get part of it.  I mean, I certainly understand not wanting to be insulted about the team.  But I don't quite get why being an after thought would be a bad thing.  Like even in Gibbs era the 49ers were the team that was the Dynasty, and in the early 80s people still wondered if the Cowboys would recover and be a threat again and in the late 80s with LT and Simms I think the Giants were more talked about than us, and in the AFC you had so many superstar QBs, Marino and Elway as soon as they came in, then Moon quickly joined in and then Kelly added to the list by the late 80s.

 

I don’t think it’s directly about what other teams’ fans think, that’s just a byproduct of being in the national conversation due to being relevant. People want to be relevant. We’ve been irrelevant for 25+ years. Pretty sure there are plenty of fans here who would like to watch/listen to the hours of NFL coverage they consume as die hard fans and have their team be in the conversation and worth talking about.  “I don’t quite get why being an afterthought would be a bad thing” is a wild sentence lol. Only bad, irrelevant teams are afterthoughts. 

[MrJL]

3 minutes ago, Conn said:

 

I don’t think it’s directly about what other teams’ fans think, that’s just a byproduct of being in the national conversation due to being relevant. People want to be relevant. We’ve been irrelevant for 25+ years. Pretty sure there are plenty of fans here who would like to watch/listen to the hours of NFL coverage they consume as die hard fans and have their team be in the conversation and worth talking about.  “I don’t quite get why being an afterthought would be a bad thing” is a wild sentence lol. Only bad, irrelevant teams are afterthoughts. 

 

It's been a long time and I had only really been into football for around a year and a half or two years when we had our best year  in 91, but I kind of remember the conversation in the offseason prior being about Simms or Hostetler, can the Bills comeback from their heartbreaking loss, Joe Montana's injury.  Like we weren't expected to be worse but we weren't expected to be great either

 

Bad irrelevant teams aren't thought about.  Afterthoughts to me are like the last two teams in the playoffs