2024 Comprehensive Draft Thread

[Rufus T Firefly]

I think we should draft Jalon Daniels from Kansas just to have people get excited and then angry. 

 

Maybe JT Daniels from Rice too. 

[DWinzit]

8 hours ago, Chump Bailey said:

If Mason Brooks is on our PS, why not give him a look? 

I'm sure he gets an opportunity from the new regime. He has been ignored in conversations and it seems like be staff. Perhaps he should get a nod, can't be any worse than Paul and Charles play.

[Skinsinparadise]

Early 2nd round types, Brian Thomas (good size, deep  ball threat) has jumped out while I was watching Jayden.  But in that range Xavier Legette grabs me even more.   Tall, makes some sick acrobatic catches.  Uber fast, too.  Sick athlete.  Love this guy.

 

He doesn't look as jacked up as Dk Metcalf.  But he still looks strong, not an easy dude to tackle.  YAC.  If he runs as fast as some suspect in the combine he might creep into the first round.

 

Sick stats this season but a bit of a late bloomer which is sometimes a red flag at WR.  Looks like a good blocker, too from some of what I watched.  Contorts his body well to adjust to throws that are off the marl and make difficult catches, very strong at the catch point and will end up with the ball on contested catches ala Drake London. 

 

Like Metcalf he's not a loose hip, agile runner, when you watch him try to seperate.  But considering his height, long speed, tracking ability for the deep ball, contested catch ability -- he IMO fits the type of receiver that we can use.

 

https://sports.yahoo.com/south-carolinas-xavier-legette-fastest-175752781.html#:~:text=How fast did Xavier Legette,this season%2C including the NFL.

 

How fast did Xavier Legette run against Mississippi State?

On the Game****s' opening drive, Legette received a quick pass from Spencer Rattler in the flat on third-and-4 and exploded through a parted Bulldogs defense untouched at 22.3 mph, the fastest speed of anyone in football this season, including the NFL.

 

 

 

 

Edited December 9, 2023 by Skinsinparadise

[KDawg]

19 minutes ago, Skinsinparadise said:

Early 2nd round types, Brian Thomas (good size, deep  ball threat) has jumped out while I was watching Jayden.  But in that range Xavier Legette grabs me even more.   Tall, makes some sick acrobatic catches.  Uber fast, too.  Sick athlete.  Love this guy.

 

He doesn't look as jacked up as Dk Metcalf.  But he still looks strong, not an easy dude to tackle.  YAC.  If he runs as fast as some suspect in the combine he might creep into the first round.

 

Sick stats this season but a bit of a late bloomer which is sometimes a red flag at WR.  Looks like a good blocker, too from some of what I watched.  Contorts his body well to adjust to throws that are off the marl and make difficult catches, very strong at the catch point and will end up with the ball on contested catches ala Drake London. 

 

Like Metcalf he's not a loose hip, agile runner, when you watch him try to seperate.  But considering his height, long speed, tracking ability for the deep ball, contested catch ability -- he IMO fits the type of receiver that we can use.

 

https://sports.yahoo.com/south-carolinas-xavier-legette-fastest-175752781.html#:~:text=How fast did Xavier Legette,this season%2C including the NFL.

 

How fast did Xavier Legette run against Mississippi State?

On the Game****s' opening drive, Legette received a quick pass from Spencer Rattler in the flat on third-and-4 and exploded through a parted Bulldogs defense untouched at 22.3 mph, the fastest speed of anyone in football this season, including the NFL.

 

 

 

 

Legette is my dude. I have him as WR2, actually. I love that he is a burner possession receiver.

[Skinsinparadise]

7 minutes ago, KDawg said:

Legette is my dude. I have him as WR2, actually. I love that he is a burner possession receiver.

 

I am surprised he's not hyped more.   His contested catch ability is sick and has the speed to burn you deep -- that's why for me he reminds me some of Metcalf.

[KDawg]

22 minutes ago, Skinsinparadise said:

 

I am surprised he's not hyped more.   His contested catch ability is sick and has the speed to burn you deep -- that's why for me he reminds me some of Metcalf.

Agreed. Been waiting for him to catch on since I posted my receiver rankings and I thought I was going to be on an island with him. I think one other guy threw support his way… but now that we have the big dog on board this is going to soar.

[Skinsinparadise]

11 minutes ago, KDawg said:

Agreed. Been waiting for him to catch on since I posted my receiver rankings and I thought I was going to be on an island with him. I think one other guy threw support his way… but now that we have the big dog on board this is going to soar.

He is sure to skyrocket now that he has my endorsement too. Josh Harris you know what to do now. 😀

[The Rook]

1 hour ago, Skinsinparadise said:

He is sure to skyrocket now that he has my endorsement too. Josh Harris you know what to do now. 😀

 

Legette is a guy I like, especially if they trade back and pick up an additional 2nd.

 

Speaking of 2nd round, I was looking at J.T. Tuimoloau for an edge pick in the second, and looked at Ohio State D vs Notre Dame O. 

Some observations:  

Notre Dame game planned for J.T. with TE chips and assists early on.

Joe Alt was really good in this game - he owned J.T.

J.T. seemed to tire out later in the game - looked like a heavyweight in round 10

In fact, he switched to the other side late in the game to get away from Alt, I think.

 

Alt is #76 and Tuimoloau is #44

 

 

 

 

 

The Rook

Edited December 9, 2023 by The Rook

[KDawg]

Safeties..

 

Cooper Dejean, Iowa - Actually played corner. Great reaction on throws and smart. When he breaks he attacks the ball. He hits, he tackles, and he is a cold blooded destroyer. He is the best player on the Iowa defense. Oh, and he's a great return man. I think he converts to safety in the NFL, but you can see his intelligence.

 

Kam Kinchens, Miami - He is a buffalo/strong safety type. Physical, intense, reads, hits, aggressive. Excellent tackling technique and a reallly good break on the ball guy. I know... Going to be a tough sell on this next point, but keep in mind I am talking stylistically and not saying he is him... But I am a Miami fan. And Kam Kinchens reminds me so much of ST21 in style. Even the way he hits people looks like Taylor. The way he goes up and gets the ball looks like Taylor. I will say that there is a very big time difference between he and ST21: He can be more over aggressive and get beat because of it and sometimes plays a bit too far off in man so he doesn't get burned. ST never did that, really. But stylistically he is as close as I've seen. 

 

Tyler Nubin, Minnesota - Nubin is more of a center fielder type than the first two guys. But he is the ballhawk deep safety in this class. He excels when he is playing in robber type coverage but can patrol deep. He isn't the same kind of tackler as Dejean or Kinchens and can lose position at times because his back pedal is really, really high sometimes.

 

Calen Bullock, USC - Physical hitter. Watching games he stands out a bit as a hard nosed player. He is a really good alley filling tackler. He has a relentless motor and he is absolutely fearless. But at 6-2 190 (he looks smaller) I'm not sure how his game translates to the next level. It's hard to not love him, but that size is going to be a major issue as a safety. And it's hard to convert a safety to corner, but not impossible. 

 

Javon Bullard, Georgia - Bullard translates best to a nickel corner role. His best plays come as an edge rusher or near the box defender. He has pretty good range and can play deeper but it's not where he does his best work. He's all over the field as an underneath defender. That role limits his ceiling a touch, I think, but he is (pardon the pun) an absolute dawg underneath. If he can develop an ability to play more over the top with as much of a game wrecker mentality as he shows as an under defender he is potentially the most well rounded safety in the class. But, to me, the underneath work is tremendous but a ceiling limiter. Having said that, despite his rank... whoever gets this guy is getting a baller.

 

Malachi Moore, Alabama - He runs through people. He is aggressive and attacking as an underneath guy, but he's also patroling and menacing as a deep defender. When he makes contact he does so with his shoulder a good percentage of the time. He doesn't lead with his head like so many others. He has a great "baseball turn" in the secondary and he has length to help any time he gets in a slight positional issue. 

 

James Williams, Miami - He is an absolute specimen at safety. Kinchens is a hitter... but James Williams is an enforcer. Williams doesn't have the range or overall playmaking ability that Kinchens has, in my opinion. But he is a tone setter and he is huge. He is a tight end eraser and a goal line force of nature. He breaks on the ball well and gets downhill. Miami safeties are usually pretty good at getting involved in the play. He's not a stud in coverage. He's not bad, he has a lot of range and length and he is a freak athletically. But he keeps a high pad level and doesn't change direction real well as a patrolling safety. He's not as dynamic as other "underneath" guys, but if you need someone to cover a tight end or play up in the box as a box safety or nickel corner against big receivers he is a real problem. 

 

Rod Moore, Michigan - He might be the best underheralded safety in the group. I think he legitimately may be the best open field tackler in the whole safety group. He's really smart in the way he defends passes and avoids making contact while still making plays on the ball. He is a fundamentally sound safety who does all the little things correctly. He doesn't take over games with physicality. He's a measured player who plays in control.

 

Cole Bishop, Utah - Smaller frame, doesn't wrap well or tackle well. But he is fluid with his hips and takes good drops. Can play press or off man and tracks the ball. Probably would do better as an underneath defending strong safety aligning at 8 yards or so and attacking. 

 

Beau Brade, Maryland - Seems to play very intelligently and has very good athleticism. He explodes out of breaks and changes directions really smooth. But when he gets blocked he gets blocked and seems to get beat more often than you'd want while in school...

 

 

 

1. Kam Kinchens, Miami

2. Malachi Moore, Alabama

3. Rod Moore, Michigan

4. Cooper Dejean, Iowa

5. Javon Bullard, Georgia

6. Tyler Nubin, Minnesota

7. James Williams, Miami

8. Calen Bullock, USC

9. Cole Bishop, Utah

10. Beau Brade, Maryland

 

To me, the top 3 are heads and shoulders better than the rest. The exception being the guy I have at 4. If he transitions well from corner to safety he has sky high potential and would be absolutely considered in the group with the top 3.

 

5-7 are more niche guys that play a role and will play that role really well in the NFL. Probably not high picks but as it pertains to what they do they are game wreckers. But you don't want to over extend them.

 

8-10 I have some issues with their game.

 

 

Edited December 9, 2023 by KDawg

[Chump Bailey]

7 hours ago, The Rook said:

Speaking of 2nd round, I was looking at J.T. Tuimoloau for an edge pick in the second, and looked at Ohio State D vs Notre Dame O. 

Some observations:

 

And the Oregon State RT Fuaga did the same to Latu, absolutely owned him. It's funny. I was just thinking Fuaga is likely underrated. This dude is good. I actually think he should be in the conversation for the top spot too. I just checked one of my go to sites and they now have him ranked #3 overall in the OT ranks that is. I will do the same in my updated rankings where I currently have Mims. Also, this Edge class is not nearly as good as I thought coming in IMO. Right now I'd peg Penn State's Adisa Isaac as a riser and is underrated badly IMO.

Edited December 9, 2023 by Chump Bailey

[Skinsinparadise]

Finally caught some Malachi Corley who has gotten some love on this thread.  Wow is he fun with the ball in his hands if you watch his highlights.   This is a really good WR crop, this draft.  Though I crave more of an outside WR than a slot.  He feels more of a slot guy in the pros.  The two games I watched veerus Ohio State and Liberty he played well but didn't see those video game YAC plays, unless I missed them, i had to skip around because they were full games. 

 

I touted Tank Dell some on initial watch last draft season but then I let it go because i worried about his size albeit he was a YAC fiend.  I regret that.   YAC players can do well clearly in the NFL. 

 

Corley is bigger than Tank and has even more zig and zag elusiveness.   Former RB.  Seems like a first-2nd level thread not so much deep threat.  Saw some good run blocking downfield.

 

River Helms flashed here and there, their TE, I think he's draft eligible, and if so he's got no hype.  But he was making plays, seemed to have decent speed and could seperate. 

 

 

 

 

[Chump Bailey]

Wake Forest has some good looking DB's IMO.

Edited December 9, 2023 by Chump Bailey

[KDawg]

11 minutes ago, Chump Bailey said:

 

And the Oregon State RT Fuaga did the same to Latu, absolutely owned him. It's funny. I was just thinking Fuaga is likely underrated. This dude is good. I actually think he should be in the conversation for the top spot too. I just checked one of my go to sites and they now have him ranked #3 overall in the OT ranks that is. I will do the same in my updated rankings where I currently have Mims. Also, this Edge class is not nearly as good as I thought coming in IMO. Right now I'd peg Penn State's Adisa Isaac as a riser and is underrated badly IMO.

 

I am not very high on Latu and I agree. I think Verse and Chop are both very talented. But after that I am really fairly ho-hum on the edge class. 

[Chump Bailey]

1 minute ago, KDawg said:

 

I am not very high on Latu and I agree. I think Verse and Chop are both very talented. But after that I am really fairly ho-hum on the edge class. 

 

Michigan's Braiden McGregor is an interesting prospect to me. He lines up all over the line, which makes ranking this Edge class more of a pain. He may not be getting the attention he deserves because of Chop and Jaylen Harrell. Also Josaiah Stewart is there - he's a transfer from Coastal Carolina good but I think the step up in competition has stymied his climb - that's just my 2 cents though. 

 

[Skinsinparadise]

Speaking of YAC, started watching, Ladd McConkey and he's fun on initial watch.  Doesn't have the zig and zag as Conley.  But he accelerates so fast.  Catches the ball without breaking stride.  Long legs and looks like really good long speed.   They use him in the backfield some on quick tosses.  

 

He missed some games, hurt his ankle so he doesn't have the stats that he had last year.  I had to go back to 2022 to watch as to games that were available

 

Looks like super high intangibles.   Good hands.  Seperates well.  Fast.  Good blocker down field.  I got to watch more but from what I've seen I am impressed.  And often talented college players with super high intangibles succeed in the NFL.  Terry, Pittman, etc

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Edited December 9, 2023 by Skinsinparadise

[Chump Bailey]

Lol, I'm looking forward to watching Ladd but I can't get over his name. Why in the world would a parent name their son Ladd? So odd to me but whatever

[DWinzit]

40 minutes ago, KDawg said:

Cooper Dejean, Iowa - Actually played corner. Great reaction on throws and smart. When he breaks he attacks the ball. He hits, he tackles, and he is a cold blooded destroyer. He is the best player on the Iowa defense. Oh, and he's a great return man. I think he converts to safety in the NFL, but you can see his intelligence.

 

1. Kam Kinchens, Miami

2. Malachi Moore, Alabama

3. Rod Moore, Michigan

4. Cooper Dejean, Iowa

Over the season Kinchens and Moore caught my eye over and over. I fell in deep like with both, they are the real deal.

 

I really like Dejeans game and was thrilled to read your write up on him. The return game is like icing on the cake for me with him. I'd love us to land him as I think he can translate well if used correctly  (do not see JDR lol)

11 hours ago, Skinsinparadise said:

 

How fast did Xavier Legette run against Mississippi State?

On the Game****s' opening drive, Legette received a quick pass from Spencer Rattler in the flat on third-and-4 and exploded through a parted Bulldogs defense untouched at 22.3 mph, the fastest speed of anyone in football this season, including the NFL.

 

You are appropriately all over the YAC guys, it is what this team needs.

 

While I don't see the the standout RB's that there usually are, there a number of good WR's and damn is Legette exciting! 

[Chump Bailey]

8 hours ago, The Rook said:

Joe Alt was really good in this game - he owned J.T.

 

I noticed that as well but IMO have watched enough of J.T. to like him as a prospect. He may not test that well and have a subpar SparkScore but IMO he is one where his speed and power can surprise at times. 

[DWinzit]

35 minutes ago, Chump Bailey said:

 

And the Oregon State RT Fuaga did the same to Latu, absolutely owned him. It's funny. I was just thinking Fuaga is likely underrated. This dude is good. I actually think he should be in the conversation for the top spot too. I just checked one of my go to sites and they now have him ranked #3 overall in the OT ranks that is. I will do the same in my updated rankings where I currently have Mims. Also, this Edge class is not nearly as good as I thought coming in IMO. Right now I'd peg Penn State's Adisa Isaac as a riser and is underrated badly IMO.

Fuaga is the man at RT!!! He is a destroyer

[Skinsinparadise]

38 minutes ago, DWinzit said:

Fuaga is the man at RT!!! He is a destroyer

 

He's hyped on this thread including by me more than the average draftnik from what I noticed.  The exception being PFF which seems really high on him. 

 

The more I watch, especially the receivers and O line, the more open I am to trading down everything being equal and depending who is at our pick.

 

I am not as high on the RBs and I gather TEs than some here.  But the WRs are fun and O line looks deeper than usual.

Edited December 9, 2023 by Skinsinparadise

[Skinsinparadise]

1 hour ago, KDawg said:

 

 

Javon Bullard, Georgia - Bullard translates best to a nickel corner role. His best plays come as an edge rusher or near the box defender. He has pretty good range and can play deeper but it's not where he does his best work. He's all over the field as an underneath defender. That role limits his ceiling a touch, I think, but he is (pardon the pun) an absolute dawg underneath. If he can develop an ability to play more over the top with as much of a game wrecker mentality as he shows as an under defender he is potentially the most well rounded safety in the class. But, to me, the underneath work is tremendous but a ceiling limiter. Having said that, despite his rank... whoever gets this guy is getting a baller.

 

 

Just started watching him.  He strikes me in that Branch, Quan Martin type of style of play.  Slot CB who can play some big nickle albiet he's undersized and some safety.  Plays with so much fire.  Feels like we need some of that on this team.

 

Reading that article about this team from Keim which included a quote from a team source saying this team just doesn't seem fired up and motivated comes off depressing.

 

But it made me think some, we don't have much as to players who are both emotional and natural leaders.  It seems like our version of that is St. Juste and Forbes celebrating at times pedestrain plays in games where they are getting blown out.

 

Not saying i am drafting guys like Bullard just for their attitude.  But IMO this team on both units needs a jolt of energy.

 

In theory at least, I like edge and safety enough in FA.

Edited December 9, 2023 by Skinsinparadise

[DWinzit]

12 minutes ago, Skinsinparadise said:

 

He's hyped on this thread including by me more than the average draftnik from what I noticerd.  The exception being PFF which seems really high on him. 

 

The more I watch, especially the receivers and O line, the more open I am to trading down everything being equal and depending who is at our pick.

 

I am not as high on the RBs and I gather TEs than some here.  But the WRs are fun and O line looks deeper than usual.

I would be fine with accumulating more later 1st and early 2nd round picks (an hope for one next year).

 

My early view is the OL, WR, and I'd add in a decent DB group as being fairly deep.

 

The good thing about that is we have a need in all of these areas.

 

The bad thing is we have a need in virtually every position.

[Going Commando]

On 12/8/2023 at 7:19 AM, Skinsinparadise said:

 

If you are saying NE is a bad pass blocking team how is it an interesting example of how teams with strong O lines can be awful?  do you mean o lines that major in run blocking but struggle with pass blocking?  If so with that angle I agree, i agree with the point that its better to have strong pass protectors.

 

It's more complicated than that.  Most of New England's incompetence in pass block win rate is actually generated from their QB play and scheme, because Onwenu, Strange, Andrews, and Brown are all good linemen who are definitely capable in pass pro.  I'm judging strength for an OL with more weight given to the quality of the individual players on it, more so than their team win rate stats because those can get a bit janky.  First, the separation in team rate isn't really that big between say 5-25.  Last year that entire group of teams was within a range of 10% points, and the running win rates were even more closely grouped.  On top of that, one of the limitations of the passing win rate stat is it's rigidity, whereas the running win rate is more nuanced in assessment.  They consider a common sense range of outcomes for run plays that would cover most situations in the NFL game to determine wins/losses, but the passing win rate is just a flat consideration of did the defender win the rep in 2.5 seconds or less?  If not, win for the the OL, loss for the DL, and vice versa.  That criteria is actually going to eliminate quite a bit of passing snaps from consideration because so many plays are either going to be moving pockets or quick throws that won't meet that criteria.  Thus teams that run those kinds of passing plays at lower rates than others will, at minimum produce samples that are going to be messy to compare to teams with offenses that do a lot of that.  And beyond that, teams can definitely put their OLs in disadvangeous situations that will hurt their pass pro win rates by that metric, running poor protections, falling behind the chains and on the scoreboard, running predictable offense, etc.  That's why I like PBWR and PRWR more as individual stats.  It's a fairly straightforward answer to the question of is this OL or DL doing his job on traditional passing game reps?  If like with New England you can say yes on four out of five of their linemen, then they probably have a strong OL, and something else about their passing game is breaking down.

 

Thus I think New England is an interesting demonstration of how teams can still be terrible even with good OLs.  If your skill players are awful, and I think they've got the worst in the NFL, then they will waste a good OL and you still won't be able to score.  Even if you can still run the ball and stop the run like they can, you will lose most of your games due to not being able to throw.

[Warhead36]

"Run the ball and stop the run" is no longer a valid winning strategy, unless you're playing like the Titans every week. 

[RWJ]

10 minutes ago, Warhead36 said:

"Run the ball and stop the run" is no longer a valid winning strategy, unless you're playing like the Titans every week. 

That was part of our O's problem this year. EB didn't run the ball to setup the pass.  We had success with running the ball.in games.  We see it when EB runs the ball which is not often.  I don't agree with the first part of the sentence I quoted because we could have run and been more competitive, IMO:

 

The case for Sam Howell to make his first Pro Bowl (commanders.com)

 

"Commanders have had to throw the ball to stay competitive in games. The Commanders throw the ball more than any team in the league, and Howell's 509 pass attempts are the most among all quarterbacks."