2024 Comprehensive Draft Thread

[Always A Commander Never A Captain]

3 hours ago, Going Commando said:

 

One more thing, I know this goes against the grain, but I don't think OT is a premium position any more.  I think it's just another spot on a line now.  I think the shotgun spread has killed the special value that the position used to have by making pass protection so much easier.  Receiver has pretty much replaced backs and tackles as the premium position in the offense after QB.  It doesn't feel that way for us right now because we have some pretty appealing players at WR and very few on the OL.  But I definitely would not prioritize a low ceiling high floor tackle over much higher ceiling players at receiver/tight end/edge based on position value.

 

I see that kind of playing out in the media but not outright saying it except for very specific instances.

 

Especially with the prevalence of non-6'4 QB's, having a clear pocket with consistent throwing lanes and sight lines is more important for some QB's. It's talked about with Carolina, that Bryce Young needs better Guard play rather than Tackle play. Their top pick from two season ago has disappointed at Tackle, so I've seen lots of suggestions of moving him to Guard as that position is more important for Young anyways.

 

Howell is shorter for a QB, he likes to climb the pocket vertically, and when he scrambles to run it's usually vertical pocket movement that starts it.

 

We've got a disaster at LG and RT. But LG might be more important because of Howell's size and playstyle. He also seems to freak out and run himself into more sacks from interior pressure than exterior pressure.

 

--------------------

Theory, if fixing RT does not have more value than fixing LG, and premier LG talent is easier to find for less cost. Then shouldn't that be the route?

[Skinsinparadise]

21 minutes ago, Warhead36 said:

I kinda agree with GC on one point: the value of LT has diminished some in today's NFL. Opposing defenses move their best pass rushers all over the place now, its not like back in the day when the best rusher only rushed from the blind side. Teams have figured out that rushing your best rusher against a favorable matchup is better then just only rushing him from the blind side. 

 

And ultimately, you can have one real good LT and still have a crap OL. Its more important to have five solid guys who work well together. If we draft a stud LT but are still trotting the likes of Wylie, Charles, and Paul out there how much good does that do us? 

 

If we're picking in the top 5 we need to go for a legit gamechanging blue chip talent. One LT isn't gonna accomplish that.

 

Was just listening to Jason Reid, draft guy for ESPN and i believe used to play O line.  He defintely thinks tackle is more important than guard and its not close.  I think you can argue RT is almost as important as LT now.  So I agree it doesn't have to be LT.  Heck Parsons, Reddick among others mostly line up against the RT.

 

I don't think its a coincidence that its hard to find tackles in FA but interior isn't nearly as hard.

 

As much as I critcized PFF as for how they grade O lineman. i do agree with their general philosophy about the O line which is the key is not have a weakness at ANY spot on the O line. If for example your RG sucks, then that's the spot opposing defenses will exploit -- so its better to have 5 good O lineman versus 2 rock stars, 2 so so players and 1 who sucks.

Edited December 8, 2023 by Skinsinparadise

[Chump Bailey]

If Mason Brooks is on our PS, why not give him a look? 

Edited December 8, 2023 by Chump Bailey

[Skinsinparadise]

Jayden Daniels.  Watched 3 games.  I'll watch 2 more.  But my take for now...

 

Definitely worth top 5 consideration IMO.  In short, he has good arm strength, pocket awareness, mobility not just in open field but in the pocket dodging pressure.  His running ability special -- some don't think running matters -- i think it does.  His weakness IMO is his accuracy can come and go espcially when you hurry him.  His accuracy is good but somewhat inconsistent.  And can his body hold up to a pounding?  From what i read, he's a good dude, hard worker, strong intangibles.

 

Positives:

Has an effortless flick of the wrist delivery 

Good arm strength

Throws a very catchable ball -- puts nice air on his throws on every level where he's good at adjusting speeds when its needed

Really accurate in between the numbers especially on the 2nd level

Good deep ball -- though i think he's slightly overrated on that front because Thomas and Nabers adjust to some of his underthrown deep balls 

As a runner he is a mix of RG3 and Russell Wilson in a good way -- he looks to be a hair slower than RG3 but has close to his level speed.  But RG3 was a straightline runner, Daniels like Wilson has that wiggle in open field making him arguably even more dangerous than RG3 was a runner.  The Lamar Jackson comps to me aren't crazy even though they have different builds

As a runner, has some RB moves including a nice spin move, in that vein the Lamar comps make some sense.  Daniels isn't just some dude who is fast but has some moves in the open field

Decisive QB -- sometimes too much so

He looks to throw first before running

Good pocket presence has some Tony Romo Spiderman moves in the pocket when being chased

Good off platform, not great

You can see him run through his progressions on some throws.  He's not just a first read and run QB.

 

Mixed

His deep ball has a nice arc-air on it which I like.  But at times he underthrows them.

He doesn't always readjust and align his body when throwing on the move leading to some checkered accuracy on that front -- its mostly good but sometimes its not.

Hurries his throws under pressure and McNabb like will throw some balls in the dirt

You can disrupt him by pressure up the middle -- that seems to be his weakness, he looks clam in the pocket typically but flustered with pressure in his face up the middle

I don't like it when he runs up the middle and takes unneeded hits

Can stare down targets

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Edited December 8, 2023 by Skinsinparadise

[RWJ]

58 minutes ago, Skinsinparadise said:

Jayden Daniels.  Watched 3 games.  I'll watch 2 more.  But my take for now...

 

SIP, nothing against you but also agreeing on Jayden's talent and adding to what you have stated.  I have stated many times as of late that I am a HUGE Sam Howell fan but more and more as time goes on, IF we are fortunate enough to draft Jayden at #3 or #4, I am doing it.  OL can follow after the pick is made.  Let's say we pick #4, I will use a mock and show the protection and weapon we can get in the 1st 3 rounds for Jayden.  

 

 

Edited December 8, 2023 by RWJ

[KDawg]

Tight Ends...

 

Brock Bowers, Georgia - The best tight end. Can run, catch and block. Good from a technical standpoint. Not much else to say. He is by far the cream of the tight end crop. 

 

Ja'Tavion Sanders, Texas - Love his balance in contact and his ability to work to get open. He is a big time hands catcher and does a really nice job getting separation. He has really good agility and a pretty damn good catch radius. He's not bad as a blocker. They clearly like to use him a bit more in space than in the box, but he holds his own for the most part. Blocking, however, is the aspect of his game that brings him back down to Earth a bit as a prospect and where Bowers leap frogs him. He's more Kyle Pitts-esque (relax, not saying he's Pitts) than Brock Bowers-esque. But I really like him...

 

Jaheim Bell, Florida State - Excellent receiver with shifty movement. Hard to bring down. Has really good initial movement off the LoS to win the rep. He is a really good receiver as a box-out option. Not sure if his style translates to the NFL: Will bigger defenders out body him? Will faster defenders out run him? Still he has really quick movement and will make his presence felt at times. The question for him is blocking. I just didn't see him do it a ton from what I saw. I think he is a tricky guy to figure out because he could be a really high end NFL option at some point. 

 

Cade Stover, Ohio State - . He's big. 6-5ish, 255ish. Runs a lot smoother than he really has any business of moving, too. He does drop the ball a bit more than the other guys but he is a good blocker and can make plays. He's a linebacker. Playing tight end. And he plays tight end like he's a linebacker. And he is just growing into the position. His upside is through the roof.

 

Bryson Nesbit, North Carolina - Big target. Doesn't have the burst/change of direction ability that some of the other guys have. Reliable target that once he gets going can be really difficult to bring down. He has good vision as a runner, too. Not overly strong, won't blow up defenders and he doesn't usually win with separation, which won't get better in the NFL. 

 

Ben Sinnot, Kansas State - One thing stands out from the other guys... He is a broken tackle monster. He catches the ball well in traffic, can separate and operates well as a blocker. He does a real nice job sitting down in open spaces. He has really soft hands, but that doesn't stop the drop monster at times. And he isn't going to take the top off of any defense. If he goes to a NFL team that wants to exploit his excellent route running and use him as a possession guy he can flourish. 

 

Jared Wiley, TCU - I really like him as a receiving option. TCU is hard to find good film on nowadays, so my opinion here is 100% off of highlight reels, which is NEVER the best way to watch a guy. He comes across as a good receiver who fights for yards, has good change of direction, runs a versatile route tree and has really good hands. I can't find much of anything of him as a blocker and until I see that I can't rank him fairly. 

 

Erick All, Iowa - Iowa produces good tight ends... Just about the only offensive position they produce reliably. Iowa's offense is/was steaming hot garbage. Erick All, though, wasn't. He fights for the ball and fights for yards. I think he's underutilized at just 21 receptions on the season... And then I looked and he's third on the team in receptions and the two guys tied for highest each had 29. Absolutely horrendous offense that shapes our view of All a little bit. He's not LaPorta. That's for sure. But he is a quality player

 

McCallan Castles, Tennessee - Transfer from UC-Davis. He looks like a more traditional tight end type. Underneath receiver who works in traffic and fights for yards. He works hard underneath and fights for everything he does. He hangs in as a blocker. He isn't very fast and isn't going to wow anyone with his speed. He is a safety valve type of player that has a role in the NFL but not as a high end target. 

 

Brevyn Spann-Ford, Minnesota - He's slow, and huge. He is a hulking man. He's comfortable all over the place but he's another underneath receiver. Reliable hands underneath. Not sure what he can do over the top because he just doesn't seem to get there often. 

 

1. Brock Bowers, Georgia

2. Cade Stover, Ohio State

3. Ja'Tavion Sanders, Texas

4. Ben Sinnot, Kansas State

5. Jaheim Bell, Florida State

6. Erick All, Iowa

7. Bryson Nesbit, North Carolina

8. Jared Wiley, TCU

9. Brevyn Spann-Ford, Minnesota

10. McCallan Castles, Tennessee

 

I like the tight ends better than most here seem to. Especially Bowers, Stover, Sanders, Sinnot. Bowers will be too rich for our tastes I think but I think guys like All, Sinnot and maybe even Stover may be in a draftable place for us. Stover, I think, is my guy here. It's between him and Sanders.

[Chump Bailey]

 

Starting to look at the Edge class, which is a pain in the ass because of all the OLB/hybrid types but this dude should be a good one when he comes out:

 

Jonah Savaiinaea RT Arizona, actually he needs some seasoning after seeing Latu eat his lunch a couple times.

 

Hmmm. West Virginia LT #74 Wyatt Milum is going on my list though. He's likely a riser as well. 

Edited December 8, 2023 by Chump Bailey

[Koolblue13]

1 hour ago, KDawg said:

Tight Ends...

 

Brock Bowers, Georgia - The best tight end. Can run, catch and block. Good from a technical standpoint. Not much else to say. He is by far the cream of the tight end crop. 

 

Ja'Tavion Sanders, Texas - Love his balance in contact and his ability to work to get open. He is a big time hands catcher and does a really nice job getting separation. He has really good agility and a pretty damn good catch radius. He's not bad as a blocker. They clearly like to use him a bit more in space than in the box, but he holds his own for the most part. Blocking, however, is the aspect of his game that brings him back down to Earth a bit as a prospect and where Bowers leap frogs him. He's more Kyle Pitts-esque (relax, not saying he's Pitts) than Brock Bowers-esque. But I really like him...

 

Jaheim Bell, Florida State - Excellent receiver with shifty movement. Hard to bring down. Has really good initial movement off the LoS to win the rep. He is a really good receiver as a box-out option. Not sure if his style translates to the NFL: Will bigger defenders out body him? Will faster defenders out run him? Still he has really quick movement and will make his presence felt at times. The question for him is blocking. I just didn't see him do it a ton from what I saw. I think he is a tricky guy to figure out because he could be a really high end NFL option at some point. 

 

Cade Stover, Ohio State - . He's big. 6-5ish, 255ish. Runs a lot smoother than he really has any business of moving, too. He does drop the ball a bit more than the other guys but he is a good blocker and can make plays. He's a linebacker. Playing tight end. And he plays tight end like he's a linebacker. And he is just growing into the position. His upside is through the roof.

 

Bryson Nesbit, North Carolina - Big target. Doesn't have the burst/change of direction ability that some of the other guys have. Reliable target that once he gets going can be really difficult to bring down. He has good vision as a runner, too. Not overly strong, won't blow up defenders and he doesn't usually win with separation, which won't get better in the NFL. 

 

Ben Sinnot, Kansas State - One thing stands out from the other guys... He is a broken tackle monster. He catches the ball well in traffic, can separate and operates well as a blocker. He does a real nice job sitting down in open spaces. He has really soft hands, but that doesn't stop the drop monster at times. And he isn't going to take the top off of any defense. If he goes to a NFL team that wants to exploit his excellent route running and use him as a possession guy he can flourish. 

 

Jared Wiley, TCU - I really like him as a receiving option. TCU is hard to find good film on nowadays, so my opinion here is 100% off of highlight reels, which is NEVER the best way to watch a guy. He comes across as a good receiver who fights for yards, has good change of direction, runs a versatile route tree and has really good hands. I can't find much of anything of him as a blocker and until I see that I can't rank him fairly. 

 

Erick All, Iowa - Iowa produces good tight ends... Just about the only offensive position they produce reliably. Iowa's offense is/was steaming hot garbage. Erick All, though, wasn't. He fights for the ball and fights for yards. I think he's underutilized at just 21 receptions on the season... And then I looked and he's third on the team in receptions and the two guys tied for highest each had 29. Absolutely horrendous offense that shapes our view of All a little bit. He's not LaPorta. That's for sure. But he is a quality player

 

McCallan Castles, Tennessee - Transfer from UC-Davis. He looks like a more traditional tight end type. Underneath receiver who works in traffic and fights for yards. He works hard underneath and fights for everything he does. He hangs in as a blocker. He isn't very fast and isn't going to wow anyone with his speed. He is a safety valve type of player that has a role in the NFL but not as a high end target. 

 

Brevyn Spann-Ford, Minnesota - He's slow, and huge. He is a hulking man. He's comfortable all over the place but he's another underneath receiver. Reliable hands underneath. Not sure what he can do over the top because he just doesn't seem to get there often. 

 

1. Brock Bowers, Georgia

2. Cade Stover, Ohio State

3. Ja'Tavion Sanders, Texas

4. Ben Sinnot, Kansas State

5. Jaheim Bell, Florida State

6. Erick All, Iowa

7. Bryson Nesbit, North Carolina

8. Jared Wiley, TCU

9. Brevyn Spann-Ford, Minnesota

10. McCallan Castles, Tennessee

 

I like the tight ends better than most here seem to. Especially Bowers, Stover, Sanders, Sinnot. Bowers will be too rich for our tastes I think but I think guys like All, Sinnot and maybe even Stover may be in a draftable place for us. Stover, I think, is my guy here. It's between him and Sanders.

I went looking for Beebe cuts and Sinnott stole the show. He's probably my number two TE ahead of stover, as for the day two guys, All I have to check out. Watched  bunch of Baylor Cupp yesterday and I really really like him early day three.

[Skinsinparadise]

2 hours ago, KDawg said:

Tight Ends...

 

Brock Bowers, Georgia - The best tight end. Can run, catch and block. Good from a technical standpoint. Not much else to say. He is by far the cream of the tight end crop. 

 

Ja'Tavion Sanders, Texas - Love his balance in contact and his ability to work to get open. He is a big time hands catcher and does a really nice job getting separation. He has really good agility and a pretty damn good catch radius. He's not bad as a blocker. They clearly like to use him a bit more in space than in the box, but he holds his own for the most part. Blocking, however, is the aspect of his game that brings him back down to Earth a bit as a prospect and where Bowers leap frogs him. He's more Kyle Pitts-esque (relax, not saying he's Pitts) than Brock Bowers-esque. But I really like him...

 

Jaheim Bell, Florida State - Excellent receiver with shifty movement. Hard to bring down. Has really good initial movement off the LoS to win the rep. He is a really good receiver as a box-out option. Not sure if his style translates to the NFL: Will bigger defenders out body him? Will faster defenders out run him? Still he has really quick movement and will make his presence felt at times. The question for him is blocking. I just didn't see him do it a ton from what I saw. I think he is a tricky guy to figure out because he could be a really high end NFL option at some point. 

 

Cade Stover, Ohio State - . He's big. 6-5ish, 255ish. Runs a lot smoother than he really has any business of moving, too. He does drop the ball a bit more than the other guys but he is a good blocker and can make plays. He's a linebacker. Playing tight end. And he plays tight end like he's a linebacker. And he is just growing into the position. His upside is through the roof.

 

Bryson Nesbit, North Carolina - Big target. Doesn't have the burst/change of direction ability that some of the other guys have. Reliable target that once he gets going can be really difficult to bring down. He has good vision as a runner, too. Not overly strong, won't blow up defenders and he doesn't usually win with separation, which won't get better in the NFL. 

 

Ben Sinnot, Kansas State - One thing stands out from the other guys... He is a broken tackle monster. He catches the ball well in traffic, can separate and operates well as a blocker. He does a real nice job sitting down in open spaces. He has really soft hands, but that doesn't stop the drop monster at times. And he isn't going to take the top off of any defense. If he goes to a NFL team that wants to exploit his excellent route running and use him as a possession guy he can flourish. 

 

Jared Wiley, TCU - I really like him as a receiving option. TCU is hard to find good film on nowadays, so my opinion here is 100% off of highlight reels, which is NEVER the best way to watch a guy. He comes across as a good receiver who fights for yards, has good change of direction, runs a versatile route tree and has really good hands. I can't find much of anything of him as a blocker and until I see that I can't rank him fairly. 

 

Erick All, Iowa - Iowa produces good tight ends... Just about the only offensive position they produce reliably. Iowa's offense is/was steaming hot garbage. Erick All, though, wasn't. He fights for the ball and fights for yards. I think he's underutilized at just 21 receptions on the season... And then I looked and he's third on the team in receptions and the two guys tied for highest each had 29. Absolutely horrendous offense that shapes our view of All a little bit. He's not LaPorta. That's for sure. But he is a quality player

 

McCallan Castles, Tennessee - Transfer from UC-Davis. He looks like a more traditional tight end type. Underneath receiver who works in traffic and fights for yards. He works hard underneath and fights for everything he does. He hangs in as a blocker. He isn't very fast and isn't going to wow anyone with his speed. He is a safety valve type of player that has a role in the NFL but not as a high end target. 

 

Brevyn Spann-Ford, Minnesota - He's slow, and huge. He is a hulking man. He's comfortable all over the place but he's another underneath receiver. Reliable hands underneath. Not sure what he can do over the top because he just doesn't seem to get there often. 

 

1. Brock Bowers, Georgia

2. Cade Stover, Ohio State

3. Ja'Tavion Sanders, Texas

4. Ben Sinnot, Kansas State

5. Jaheim Bell, Florida State

6. Erick All, Iowa

7. Bryson Nesbit, North Carolina

8. Jared Wiley, TCU

9. Brevyn Spann-Ford, Minnesota

10. McCallan Castles, Tennessee

 

I like the tight ends better than most here seem to. Especially Bowers, Stover, Sanders, Sinnot. Bowers will be too rich for our tastes I think but I think guys like All, Sinnot and maybe even Stover may be in a draftable place for us. Stover, I think, is my guy here. It's between him and Sanders.

 

 

I have the same top 4,.   Main difference is i am not as enamored with Sanders.  The dude can move, good speed for a TE, but he seemed a bit sloppy as to his hands including a fumble and at his size I wonder if he's going to hold up as a blocker.  He feels boom-bust to me -- either he will be great or suck.

 

Stover is solid all the way around, i am curious about his speed, 4.65?

 

Sinnot I highlighted the other day as my favorite sort of nonhyped TE in the bunch, can do it all, including blocking.   Good blocker.

[Skinsinparadise]

2 hours ago, RWJ said:

SIP, nothing against you but also agreeing on Jayden's talent and adding to what you have stated.  I have stated many times as of late that I am a HUGE Sam Howell fan but more and more as time goes on, IF we are fortunate enough to draft Jayden at #3 or #4, I am doing it.  OL can follow after the pick is made.  Let's say we pick #4, I will use a mock and show the protection and weapon we can get in the 1st 3 rounds for Jayden.  

 

 

 

 

 

I am into Daniels and have taken heat for it.  I am just not decided about whether I'd pull the trigger on it, am still thinking...

 

 

 

 

Edited December 8, 2023 by Skinsinparadise

[Rufus T Firefly]

6 hours ago, philibusters said:

 

I more or less agree with you, but I do disagree on one small point, which I highlighted above.  But to your larger point that you will almost always doing better financially coming out earlier, I am in agreement.

 

All NIL money is endorsement "in theory".  I put in "in theory" because of course it is often pay for play.   However if you do consider NIL endorsement money often you can get more in college (though you won't get any salary or signing bonus).  The reality is NIL is pay for play even if in theory it is endorsement money.    Rich boosters will give a player a 2 million dollar endorsement deal, where from a business standpoint there is no real likelihood of being able to recoup that money, the endorsement may be worth $500,000 to their business (lets say a chain of car dealerships or something), but there are willing to take a 1.5 million dollar loss to keep say Marvin Harrison at their favorite school.  The endorsement money most NFL players get by contrast is by businesses actually looking to make money by making an endorsement deal with the player.

I'm not an expert on endorsement deals. But Harrison made 1.3 mil last year in NIL money. I don't see any reason it would go up much next year if he goes back to OSU.

https://www.on3.com/nil/rankings/player/nil-100/

 

Can good NFL players not make north of a million per year in endorsements? My assumption is yes, but I guess I don't really know. But my thinking was more that those deals, as opposed to  the NIL deals, are long-term. If someone like Harrison signs with Reebok or Subway or Powerade, that is going to be a multi-year deal, rather than one year worth of NIL money, which is obviously of more certain value tot he athlete. 

[KDawg]

1 hour ago, Koolblue13 said:

I went looking for Beebe cuts and Sinnott stole the show. He's probably my number two TE ahead of stover, as for the day two guys, All I have to check out. Watched  bunch of Baylor Cupp yesterday and I really really like him early day three.

 

I like Sinnot quite a bit. I'm really high on the top 4 on my list. I think they can all be difference makers. I need to watch this Cupp fellow. Have never heard of him.

 

1 hour ago, Skinsinparadise said:

 

 

I have the same top 4,.   Main difference is i am not as enamored with Sanders.  The dude can move, good speed for a TE, but he seemed a bit sloppy as to his hands including a fumble and at his size I wonder if he's going to hold up as a blocker.  He feels boom-bust to me -- either he will be great or suck.

 

Stover is solid all the way around, i am curious about his speed, 4.65?

 

Sinnot I highlighted the other day as my favorite sort of nonhyped TE in the bunch, can do it all, including blocking.   Good blocker.

 

Yeah, I like Sinnot, too. I don't like him as much as Stover. I don't know, it's tough to explain. I think Sinnot (and a few other guys) are probably better tight ends than him at this point. But the fact that Stover is a converted LB who spent the time to switch positions, work on his agility, and still be what he is... I'm really impressed. That is a gigantic positivity as far as career arc. At 6-4 250ish he is a bruiser, too. And I love me a tone setter. Just a dude that wants to out dude other dudes. He's a guy other teams look at and say, "damn, I don't want to get hit repeatedly by this large human who moves exceptionally well for his size". 

 

To be clear I am not against you guys on the Sinnot love. I REALLY like the top four tight ends on my list. He's four right now, but I think you can make a case for him being 2 or 3 for sure. Skills wise he's certainly better than Stover right now. I just love the way Stover plays the position.

 

I like Sanders... I don't hold fumbles against guys. That stuff happens. Unless it's recurring and I didn't see a ton from him (but I haven't watched all of his stuff, either, to be fair). I think he'll do okay as a blocker, but he isn't going to do as well as Bowers or Stover. I think he's Kyle Pitts as a receiver, just not as smooth. So a poor man's Pitts. But still talented and more than worthy of a 2nd or early 3rd, imo.

 

But I want to say again, I think Stover is my guy here. I really, really like the way he plays and he can effect the game without even getting the ball because of his vicious streak. A tight end that plays tight end like a linebacker is fantastic. If he is really someone that goes as late as some of these sites project him (I just looked and I see him all over the board) and we can get him late... holy **** what a coup for whoever our QB is...

 

I feel the same for Sinnot, to be fair. Just a touch lesser upside. But much more polished. 

1 hour ago, Skinsinparadise said:

 

 

 

I am into Daniels and have taken heat for it.  I am just not decided about whether I'd pull the trigger on it, am still thinking...

 

 

 

 

 

I like him, too.

 

In fact, I think I'd take him over Williams. 

 

If we take him he'd be just about the only QB that I wouldn't be really upset about taking. Not sure if I'd take him over Harrison or take the haul for him yet, though. But he's the one QB who I'd say, "okay, I don't love it, but I get it. Dude has all that you want as a prospect..."

[RWJ]

1 hour ago, Skinsinparadise said:

I am into Daniels and have taken heat for it.  I am just not decided about whether I'd pull the trigger on it, am still thinking...

 

Kirk and others that know the game have or are starting to say Jayden is the real deal.  Kirk made some easy great points about him and the NFL game today.  He fits perfectly.  As HC, I try and make sure he's eating a bunch of carbs and working his butt off in the gym.  Best QB in draft to me, hands down. Not even close. IF our new GM takes him.  I am happy with Howell though. I'd take the heat all day long, SIP.  

[Forehead]

I wonder how accurate the trade offers are on those simulators.  Do they follow the old Jimmy Johnson trade value chart or anything?  It is amusing (and fun) to keep doing the best offered trade backs and winding up with a combined 8-10 second and third rounders.

[Rufus T Firefly]

26 minutes ago, Forehead said:

I wonder how accurate the trade offers are on those simulators.  Do they follow the old Jimmy Johnson trade value chart or anything?  It is amusing (and fun) to keep doing the best offered trade backs and winding up with a combined 8-10 second and third rounders.

Some of them are beyond ludicrous. I remember one where you could probably trade down a bunch of times from, say, 5 to 15 and pick up about 5 2s, 5 3s and few 4s and 5s as well. 

Edited December 8, 2023 by Rufus T Firefly

[Skinsinparadise]

35 minutes ago, KDawg said:

 

 

Yeah, I like Sinnot, too. I don't like him as much as Stover. I don't know, it's tough to explain. I think Sinnot (and a few other guys) are probably better tight ends than him at this point. But the fact that Stover is a converted LB who spent the time to switch positions, work on his agility, and still be what he is... I'm really impressed. That is a gigantic positivity as far as career arc. At 6-4 250ish he is a bruiser, too. And I love me a tone setter. Just a dude that wants to out dude other dudes. He's a guy other teams look at and say, "damn, I don't want to get hit repeatedly by this large human who moves exceptionally well for his size". 

pect..."

 

I don't love Stover.  i liked him he strikes me as a high floor TE but not a high ceiling one.  I also liked him a little over Sinnot.  Sinnot to me is a slightly better blocker.  Sinnot isn't a people move but he was used in the games I watched in a blocking role a lot, and looked very assignment sound.

 

I am not excited about this class. Don't hate it either.   I don't see the Laporta, Musgrave, Mayer 2nd round prospect in this mix.  

 

Sanders I am mixed on, more positive than negative and he has the most upside aside from Bowers.  To me this is an ordinary TE class, nothing special like last year.   

 

But if you want sort of your Kyle Rudolph type of TE, i think there might be a guy or two in this class who ends up like that.  I've only watched 7 TE so I still got more to watch so maybe my take changes some.  I know at a minimum I am not an outlier on this class versus the mock draft types.

 

7 minutes ago, Rufus T Firefly said:

Some of them are band ludicrous. I remember one where you could probably trade down a bunch of times from, say, 5 to 15 and pick up about 5 2s, 5 3s and few 4s and 5s as well. 

 

Yeah I and others here have talked about it over the years.  I don't bother with the trade downs because the bounty is so insane that heck you can rebuild a roster into a SB contender in one fell swoop by just trading down. 

Edited December 8, 2023 by Skinsinparadise

[Skinsinparadise]

45 minutes ago, KDawg said:

 

I like him, too.

 

In fact, I think I'd take him over Williams. 

 

If we take him he'd be just about the only QB that I wouldn't be really upset about taking. Not sure if I'd take him over Harrison or take the haul for him yet, though. But he's the one QB who I'd say, "okay, I don't love it, but I get it. Dude has all that you want as a prospect..."

 

34 minutes ago, RWJ said:

Kirk and others that know the game have or are starting to say Jayden is the real deal.  Kirk made some easy great points about him and the NFL game today.  He fits perfectly.  As HC, I try and make sure he's eating a bunch of carbs and working his butt off in the gym.  Best QB in draft to me, hands down. Not even close. IF our new GM takes him.  I am happy with Howell though. I'd take the heat all day long, SIP.  

 

 

This is starting to feel like the equivalent of me saying I like Corum weeks back and then seeing praise that takes it on a whole new level where I wonder if I share that level of intensity. 

 

Daniels is intriguing.  I appreciate @RWJ that you are willing to take the arrows for him now.  But too little too late, I already took the arrows  so like the Marines I paved the way for you to take it on without taking the bullets to perhaps that same extent.    But if you want to push it on the QB thread, I'l get ready my 🍿  I've already provided my share of entertainment.  So your turn next. 

 

As for Daniels is better than Caleb.  i don't think I'd take it that far.  But I'll grant that I've never studied Caleb.  But the glimpses of what I've seen from Caleb make me understand his hype as I've mentioned here before.  I do think though as I've said for some time now the Lamar comparisons to Daniels isn't crazy.  It's at a minimum a viable discussion point and Daniels IMO is the better college passer.

Edited December 8, 2023 by Skinsinparadise

[Always A Commander Never A Captain]

6 hours ago, Skinsinparadise said:

 

Was just listening to Jason Reid, draft guy for ESPN and i believe used to play O line.  He defintely thinks tackle is more important than guard and its not close.  I think you can argue RT is almost as important as LT now.  So I agree it doesn't have to be LT.  Heck Parsons, Reddick among others mostly line up against the RT.

 

Unless there's a different Jason Reid at ESPN, then no he did not play football. Maybe his playing history isn't publicized, but he got his journalism start covering college basketball and baseball (I think). That doesn't really sound like the traditional former player getting a start covering the sport they played and know well.

 

If it's the same Jason Reid, then I remember him having particularly bad takes on football and I remember his former coworkers at Washington Post (specifically Mike Jones) absolutely trashing him as a person. It sounded like a messy divorce with Reid and WaPo.

[Skinsinparadise]

5 minutes ago, Always A Commander Never A Captain said:

 

Unless there's a different Jason Reid at ESPN, then no he did not play football. Maybe his playing history isn't publicized, but he got his journalism start covering college basketball and baseball (I think). That doesn't really sound like the traditional former player getting a start covering the sport they played and know well.

 

If it's the same Jason Reid, then I remember him having particularly bad takes on football and I remember his former coworkers at Washington Post (specifically Mike Jones) absolutely trashing him as a person. It sounded like a messy divorce with Reid and WaPo.

 

My bad, Jordan Reid.  And I know he played college football, I've heard him talk about it on podcasts before.  He's been a draft guy forever but joined ESPN a few years back.

 

Jason Reid of course isn't ESPN's draft guy.  Yeah I've been here forever I know all about Jason Reid and the WP.  His RG3 takes in particular. 

 

Edited December 8, 2023 by Skinsinparadise

[RWJ]

19 minutes ago, Skinsinparadise said:

 

 

 

This is starting to feel like the equivalent of me saying I like Corum weeks back and then seeing praise that takes it on a whole new level where I wonder if I share that level of intensity. 

 

Daniels is intriguing.  I appreciate @RWJ that you are willing to take the arrows for him now.  But too little too late, I already took the arrows  so like the Marines I paved the way for you to take it on without taking the bullets to perhaps that same extent.    But if you want to push it on the QB thread, I'l get ready my 🍿  I've already provided my share of entertainment.  So your turn next. 

 

As for Daniels is better than Caleb.  i don't think I'd take it that far.  But I'll grant that I've never studied Caleb.  But the glimpses of what I've seen from Caleb make me understand his hype as I've mentioned here before.  I do think though as I've said for some time now the Lamar comparisons to Daniels isn't crazy.  It's at a minimum a viable discussion point and Daniels IMO is the better college passer.

LOL.  I'll take those arrows for you and those who want to say something I leave it pretty easy by saying, "This my stand for now and let's move along".  😆👍  Thanks as always for your input, SIP.   

[KDawg]

46 minutes ago, Forehead said:

I wonder how accurate the trade offers are on those simulators.  Do they follow the old Jimmy Johnson trade value chart or anything?  It is amusing (and fun) to keep doing the best offered trade backs and winding up with a combined 8-10 second and third rounders.

The draft simulators are almost as bad as wanting to keep Andrew Wylie next season

26 minutes ago, Skinsinparadise said:

 

 

 

This is starting to feel like the equivalent of me saying I like Corum weeks back and then seeing praise that takes it on a whole new level where I wonder if I share that level of intensity. 

 

Daniels is intriguing.  I appreciate @RWJ that you are willing to take the arrows for him now.  But too little too late, I already took the arrows  so like the Marines I paved the way for you to take it on without taking the bullets to perhaps that same extent.    But if you want to push it on the QB thread, I'l get ready my 🍿  I've already provided my share of entertainment.  So your turn next. 

 

As for Daniels is better than Caleb.  i don't think I'd take it that far.  But I'll grant that I've never studied Caleb.  But the glimpses of what I've seen from Caleb make me understand his hype as I've mentioned here before.  I do think though as I've said for some time now the Lamar comparisons to Daniels isn't crazy.  It's at a minimum a viable discussion point and Daniels IMO is the better college passer.

To be fair: I didn’t say he was better than Caleb. I said I’d take him over Caleb. But as far as prospects go they aren’t all that different physically… except Daniels is much taller and similar weight.

[Rufus T Firefly]

18 minutes ago, KDawg said:

The draft simulators are almost as bad as wanting to keep Andrew Wylie next season

Complete change of subject, but I wonder if we could pay Wylie's guaranteed salary and sucker some team into giving us a 7th round pick for the rest of his deal. As much as I, KDawg and the rest of the sane community despise Wylie as a player, I do wonder if a team could still think he has some modicum of value. Say Cincinnati once they lose Jonah Williams?

[clskinsfan]

2 hours ago, Rufus T Firefly said:

I'm not an expert on endorsement deals. But Harrison made 1.3 mil last year in NIL money. I don't see any reason it would go up much next year if he goes back to OSU.

https://www.on3.com/nil/rankings/player/nil-100/

 

Can good NFL players not make north of a million per year in endorsements? My assumption is yes, but I guess I don't really know. But my thinking was more that those deals, as opposed to  the NIL deals, are long-term. If someone like Harrison signs with Reebok or Subway or Powerade, that is going to be a multi-year deal, rather than one year worth of NIL money, which is obviously of more certain value tot he athlete. 

Plus his salary. Which will be like 25-30 million guaranteed over 4 years. And his 5th year option will be pretty massive as well. 

[Rufus T Firefly]

11 minutes ago, clskinsfan said:

Plus his salary. Which will be like 25-30 million guaranteed over 4 years. And his 5th year option will be pretty massive as well. 

The specific point he was making and I was responding to was about NIL vs endorsements as a pro. 

 

The overall point was this whole idea that's becoming a media narrative that players "can earn more in Nil than in a rookie contract." which, as I said, is silly excuse it's endorsements which can be earned either way. The amount of the rookie contract is mainly irrelevant because the player (Harrison in this example) will get that deal either now or when they come out. What tye'd be sacrificing is waiting another year to get to that second contract, in effect giving up a year of their prime to earn big money. which in his case is likely to be over $30 mil.

 

 

[illone]

This is kinda fun.