mistertim Posted January 1 Share Posted January 1 5 hours ago, KDawg said: Jayden Daniels How Does He Translate to the NFL It will be interesting. I think from a trait department, he's the only one of the top three with an elite trait. Williams has elite skills, Maye has ideal size but not necessarily anything that screams elite. Daniels has elite speed. And his acceleration is fantastic. I like your overall writeup on Daniels here, but this I disagree with a bit. Not sure how you can say Williams doesn't have any elite traits. From watching him I think he has a truly special arm. Seeing him consistently throwing passes 30 to 40 yards on a frozen rope while backpedaling, on the move, and off platform reminds me very much of Rodgers or Mahomes as far as arm talent. I also think his ability to sense and evade pressure is elite as well. That's another area where he reminds me a lot of Mahomes and where he's truly special. Though perhaps you see that more as a "skill" than a "trait"? But IMO it's more of a trait because I don't see it as something that can really be coached. My biggest concern (aside from his somewhat slight frame) with Williams is his potential character and attitude, though that may be overblown a bit. Still somewhat concerning nonetheless. 2 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
clskinsfan Posted January 1 Share Posted January 1 8 minutes ago, mistertim said: My biggest concern (aside from his somewhat slight frame) with Williams is his potential character and attitude, though that may be overblown a bit. I think its definitely overblown. So he cried on his moms shoulder after a loss. That tells me he cares and wants to win. Getting him back home close to his family would be a good thing imo. The guy is just a very special talent. 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KDawg Posted January 1 Share Posted January 1 10 minutes ago, mistertim said: I like your overall writeup on Daniels here, but this I disagree with a bit. Not sure how you can say Williams doesn't have any elite traits. From watching him I think he has a truly special arm. Seeing him consistently throwing passes 30 to 40 yards on a frozen rope while backpedaling, on the move, and off platform reminds me very much of Rodgers or Mahomes as far as arm talent. I also think his ability to sense and evade pressure is elite as well. That's another area where he reminds me a lot of Mahomes and where he's truly special. Though perhaps you see that more as a "skill" than a "trait"? But IMO it's more of a trait because I don't see it as something that can really be coached. My biggest concern (aside from his somewhat slight frame) with Williams is his potential character and attitude, though that may be overblown a bit. Still somewhat concerning nonetheless. I don’t think Williams arm is any better than Maye, Rattler or even Daniels. To me, what sets Williams apart is his off-platform throws. That isn’t necessarily arm strength. It’s ability to create. Which isn’t a trait, it’s a skill. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jumbo Posted January 1 Share Posted January 1 10 minutes ago, clskinsfan said: I think its definitely overblown. So he cried on his moms shoulder after a loss. That tells me he cares and wants to win. Getting him back home close to his family would be a good thing imo. The guy is just a very special talent. It's like I used to tell patients in therapeutic settings: "What the **** is this crying bull****? Crying is for babies! Are you a ****ing baby? Wah wah wah. Get the **** out of here with that bull****!" If they can't suck it up and they leave, they still got charged for a full session. Therapy ain't for wimps and neither is football. 9 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
clskinsfan Posted January 1 Share Posted January 1 Nix with a beautiful TD pass there. Flick of the wrister. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jumbo Posted January 1 Share Posted January 1 Just now, clskinsfan said: Nix with a beautiful TD pass there. Flick of the wrister. Plus, and most important, his name is Bo Nix. I mean c'mon. End of discussion. 1 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Warhead36 Posted January 1 Share Posted January 1 26 minutes ago, clskinsfan said: I think its definitely overblown. So he cried on his moms shoulder after a loss. That tells me he cares and wants to win. Getting him back home close to his family would be a good thing imo. The guy is just a very special talent. I think the opposite. Being close to home might bring out the absolute worst. But hes so talented that if hes there at 2 you have to give it serious consideration. 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KDawg Posted January 1 Share Posted January 1 (edited) I don’t think you can write off the crying in the stands thing… but I don’t think you can really weight it much, either. We need context we don’t have. So until more or less comes out it’s an additional note for Williams but nothing either way. But he has a bunch of those right now. Not sure how much of it is bull**** designed to get him to fall a bit, how much is completely true and how much is totally made up. Edited January 1 by KDawg 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FlyBigBeard Posted January 1 Share Posted January 1 9 minutes ago, clskinsfan said: Nix with a beautiful TD pass there. Flick of the wrister. I have been a Nix guy I think he is a guy you can get and win with, trade down and stockpile picks and take Nix 🤷🏻♂️👍 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mistertim Posted January 1 Share Posted January 1 15 minutes ago, Jumbo said: It's like I used to tell patients in therapeutic settings: "What the **** is this crying bull****? Crying is for babies! Are you a ****ing baby? Wah wah wah. Get the **** out of here with that bull****!" If they can't suck it up and they leave, they still got charged for a full session. Therapy ain't for wimps and neither is football. As a mental health professional, I'm sure you're far more versed than I am when it pertains to laws of disclosure and patient confidentiality. That said, I really think it's a low blow to publicly share what happened in some of our sessions. 1 8 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KDawg Posted January 1 Share Posted January 1 1 minute ago, mistertim said: As a mental health professional, I'm sure you're far more versed than I am when it pertains to laws of disclosure and patient confidentiality. That said, I really think it's a low blow to publicly share what happened in some of our sessions. I think he’s being facetious. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HigSkin Posted January 1 Share Posted January 1 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
clskinsfan Posted January 1 Share Posted January 1 5 minutes ago, FlyBigBeard said: I have been a Nix guy I think he is a guy you can get and win with, trade down and stockpile picks and take Nix 🤷🏻♂️👍 If we were picking like 8-10 maybe. But I'm not passing on either top prospect for Bo Nix. 1 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KDawg Posted January 1 Share Posted January 1 Just now, HigSkin said: Well… as a Miami fan this is a kick to the nuts. They’re gonna suck again next year… 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Skinsinparadise Posted January 1 Share Posted January 1 (edited) 2 hours ago, KDawg said: I’m not sure what you view as strengths that I view as weaknesses. Haven’t really read your takes on him so I could keep my takes my own. But yes, to each their own. It's cool. I don't like to read takes from anyone until I make up my own mind and then I do. So I can relate. Your evaluation pushed me to watch 2 more games. I think I've watched already more of Drake than any of other player I've ever watched doing this. So its giving me more confidence about the player as I go as to my own opinion -- so I will either be royally right or royally wrong Where we are different is field vision, release, making quick decisions. But I'll give that with Maye he's hard in this fashion to globalize because there is more Jeykll and Hyde with his play than the other QBs I've watched where it depends on what game you watch. Where I feel the most strongly to disagree with your take is the field vision component with the disclaimer that its impossible to know. I don't have all 22 so I can't see what he sees. But when I can see some of it, he looks impressive to my eyes on that front. On play after play, you can see him scan the field, straight ahead, left, right, going through his progressions and to my eyes he does it quickly. More so than for example Jayden Daniels. And I've seen some big plays where its clear that its not his first read or the play broke down and the Wr broke off their route and got open at times deeper down the field -- and Drake saw it, adjusted to the play and made a good throw to that receiver. Also you can see him identify in some games a blitz-free rusher. He's good using pump fakes to throw off safeties. The variables that involve vision to my eyes he's excellent at. As for as his release and making quick decisions, its something he does in spades. Heck often he doesn't even drop back, he gets the ball and just darts-sprays the ball. His average time to throw was 2.79 seconds which was one of the lower numbers in this draft class. But on the contrary if no one is open, like Howell, he will hold on to the ball until something breaks free. So it sort of depends on how you take the two dynamics. But to my eyes he has a quick release and can quickly process. But some games like lets say the one against Georgia Tech (though he played well in that game) or U M it might feel differently. Why do I think he deserves his top 5 pedigree and hype? I'll go back to @volsmet who had relatives who worked in personnel around the league. He helped me a lot as to evaluating QBs, and he lead me to do so judging Haskins, where he coached me to watch with the lense of breaking down the ability to make throws on all three levels -- in breaking, out breaking. Judging accuracy and arm strength, touch and those fronts. He didn't tell me what to think but what variables to look at. And I've used that since. And when I do that for Maye, he passes all of those tests. His accuracy is far from perfect. But he's above average to my eyes on all of those throws. EVERYTHING. And that's rare. And he changes speeds well, throws with touch. Throws a catchable ball. And he can run if nothing is open and is willing to use his legs. He doesn't have Burrow's pinpoint accuracy or pocket presence. But the Herbert comps to me I get -- arm talent, vision, release, mobility and makes some of the most wicked throws in this group among the ones I watched IMO. Maye isn't a disaster off platform, he has some highlight plays but the reason why Caleb IMO is the better QB is he's better at readjusting his body-squaring his shoulders when on the move. Maye is hit and miss -- its something he needs to improve on. Maye is at his best in the pocket within structure. OK out of structure with the potential to be good. Safest prospect among the top 3 QBs. I've seen enough. i am not decided on who I'd want at the pick but if its Maye i'd be jazzed. Edited January 1 by Skinsinparadise 3 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FlyBigBeard Posted January 1 Share Posted January 1 Just now, clskinsfan said: If we were picking like 8-10 maybe. But I'm not passing on either top prospect for Bo Nix. I get that argument. But you're not going to get to stockpile of picks that you would by trading at #2 vs #8 it could be a game changer multiple 1st-2nds and 3rds/4ths, I just don't think Nix is that far off from the top 2 that's all. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
clskinsfan Posted January 1 Share Posted January 1 Cam Ward declaring surprises me. He had a chance to really help his draft stock for next year imo. Cant fault anyone for chasing their dream though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rufus T Firefly Posted January 1 Share Posted January 1 13 minutes ago, KDawg said: I think he’s being facetious. Although it's possible he's not the one who missed a joke. 3 1 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KDawg Posted January 1 Share Posted January 1 (edited) 1 minute ago, Rufus T Firefly said: Although it's possible he's not the one who missed a joke. I missed this joke. What does it mean? EDIT: Oh. Some of our sessions. I thought he was a mental health professional, too. Yup. Missed it. Edited January 1 by KDawg 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mistertim Posted January 1 Share Posted January 1 (edited) 58 minutes ago, KDawg said: I don’t think Williams arm is any better than Maye, Rattler or even Daniels. To me, what sets Williams apart is his off-platform throws. That isn’t necessarily arm strength. It’s ability to create. Which isn’t a trait, it’s a skill. Fair enough. I guess to me it's not just the off-platform stuff, but also his ability to rifle throws downfield into tight windows while fading backwards with pressure in his face and without being able to step into the throws. He just seems to flick his arm and make such really difficult throws look almost effortless. That's why I view it as more of a trait than a skill, because of the insane amount of natural torque it takes to do that. I also think Daniels and Maye have great arms as well, I just haven't seen them do the things that Williams does nearly as much. 26 minutes ago, KDawg said: I don’t think you can write off the crying in the stands thing… but I don’t think you can really weight it much, either. We need context we don’t have. So until more or less comes out it’s an additional note for Williams but nothing either way. But he has a bunch of those right now. Not sure how much of it is bull**** designed to get him to fall a bit, how much is completely true and how much is totally made up. Yeah it's certainly not a deal breaker...things can certainly get emotional in situations like that so wouldn't really hold it against him. To me it's just a bit concerning that there seems to be a bit more as far as character concerns. Possible poor sportsmanship (refusing to get up and shake the other team's hands after losing, etc). Writing "**** <team name>" on his fingernails comes off as immature and he overall gives off a bit of a diva vibe. All that stuff together gives me pause. That said, he's still my #1 of the top 3, though all have their flaws. Edited January 1 by mistertim Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FrFan Posted January 1 Share Posted January 1 Drake Maye Draft Profile | North Carolina, QB Scouting Report Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mistertim Posted January 1 Share Posted January 1 17 minutes ago, KDawg said: I missed this joke. What does it mean? EDIT: Oh. Some of our sessions. I thought he was a mental health professional, too. Yup. Missed it. Oh hell. I'd be an even worse mental health professional than professional NFL scout. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Commander202 Posted January 1 Share Posted January 1 27 minutes ago, Skinsinparadise said: It's cool. I don't like to read takes from anyone until I make up my own mind and then I do. So I can relate. Your evaluation pushed me to watch 2 more games. I think I've watched already more of Drake than any of other player I've ever watched doing this. So its giving me more confidence about the player as I go as to my own opinion -- so I will either be royally right or royally wrong Where we are different is field vision, release, making quick decisions. But I'll give that with Maye he's hard in this fashion to globalize because there is more Jeykll and Hyde with his play than the other QBs I've watched where it depends on what game you watch. Where I feel the most strongly to disagree with your take is the field vision component with the disclaimer that its impossible to know. I don't have all 22 so I can't see what he sees. But when I can see some of it, he looks impressive to my eyes on that front. On play after play, you can see him scan the field, straight ahead, left, right, going through his progressions and to my eyes he does it quickly. More so than for example Jayden Daniels. And I've seen some big plays where its clear that its not his first read or the play broke down and the Wr broke off their route and got open at times deeper down the field -- and Drake saw it, adjusted to the play and made a good throw to that receiver. Also you can see him identify in some games a blitz-free rusher. He's good using pump fakes to throw off safeties. The variables that involve vision to my eyes he's excellent at. As for as his release and making quick decisions, its something he does in spades. Heck often he doesn't even drop back, he gets the ball and just darts-sprays the ball. His average time to throw was 2.79 seconds which was one of the lower numbers in this draft class. But on the contrary if no one is open, like Howell, he will hold on to the ball until something breaks free. So it sort of depends on how you take the two dynamics. But to my eyes he has a quick release and can quickly process. But some games like lets say the one against Georgia Tech (though he played well in that game) or U M it might feel differently. Why do I think he deserves his top 5 pedigree and hype? I'll go back to @volsmet who had relatives who worked in personnel around the league. He helped me a lot as to evaluating QBs, and he lead me to do so judging Haskins, where he coached me to watch with the lense of breaking down the ability to make throws on all three levels -- in breaking, out breaking. Judging accuracy and arm strength, touch and those fronts. He didn't tell me what to think but what variables to look at. And I've used that since. And when I do that for Maye, he passes all of those tests. His accuracy is far from perfect. But he's above average to my eyes on all of those throws. EVERYTHING. And that's rare. And he changes speeds well, throws with touch. Throws a catchable ball. And he can run if nothing is open and is willing to use his legs. He doesn't have Burrow's pinpoint accuracy or pocket presence. But the Herbert comps to me I get -- arm talent, vision, release, mobility and makes some of the most wicked throws in this group among the ones I watched IMO. Maye isn't a disaster off platform, he has some highlight plays but the reason why Caleb IMO is the better QB is he's better at readjusting his body-squaring his shoulders when on the move. Maye is hit and miss -- its something he needs to improve on. Maye is at his best in the pocket within structure. OK out of structure with the potential to be good. Safest prospect among the top 3 QBs. I've seen enough. i am not decided on who I'd want at the pick but if its Maye i'd be jazzed. Which is why being at #2 is beautiful since we now have an opportunity to pick Williams or Maye. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Skinsinparadise Posted January 1 Share Posted January 1 8 minutes ago, Commander202 said: Which is why being at #2 is beautiful since we now have an opportunity to pick Williams or Maye. Yeah it we hold on to the #2 spot we are in a great place IMO. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jumbo Posted January 1 Share Posted January 1 49 minutes ago, mistertim said: As a mental health professional, I'm sure you're far more versed than I am when it pertains to laws of disclosure and patient confidentiality. That said, I really think it's a low blow to publicly share what happened in some of our sessions. Why doncha just go have a good cry about it. And you still owe me $2500 for the last session you ran out of. Little baby. 6 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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