The Official 2023 ES Free Agency Thread... available until Free Agency 2024 begins

[Voice_of_Reason]

32 minutes ago, MartinC said:

Im starting to wonder if Gibson will be back. He’s making plays in the passing game (which is where he should have been primarily used from the start). Running backs are not getting huge deals so he shouldn’t be that expensive to extend.

 

He might want a fresh start of course and I think the most likely outcome is we decide we can replace him with someone on a rookie deal - but there might be at least a chance he’s back.

There is no reason to pay a RB a second contract unless it’s a top 10 back.  Go draft another on a rookie deal.  A good GM can find a 3rd or 4th round RB who can do immediately what Gibby can do on a rookie contract. 

[MartinC]

16 minutes ago, Voice_of_Reason said:

There is no reason to pay a RB a second contract unless it’s a top 10 back.  Go draft another on a rookie deal.  A good GM can find a 3rd or 4th round RB who can do immediately what Gibby can do on a rookie contract. 

 

I agree that’s by far the most likely outcome.

 

But we have a lot of needs entering next offseason and draft. OT (x2?) OG, TE, WR3/Bigger X type, LB, CB (even if Fuller comes back), FS. 
 

At RB I think Robinson is a good back. He could be upgraded but he’s a solid RB1. Gibson is a decent change of pace guy who is better as a 3rd down back IMO - if he leaves we need a 3rd down guy. That just adds another need to an already long list. 
 

I think you are right, but I’m not discounting someone deciding he’s worth retaining assuming the contract is not silly. 

 

 

[Voice_of_Reason]

2 minutes ago, MartinC said:

 

I agree that’s by far the most likely outcome.

 

But we have a lot of needs entering next offseason and draft. OT (x2?) OG, TE, WR3/Bigger X type, LB, CB (even if Fuller comes back), FS. 
 

At RB I think Robinson is a good back. He could be upgraded but he’s a solid RB1. Gibson is a decent change of pace guy who is better as a 3rd down back IMO - if he leaves we need a 3rd down guy. That just adds another need to an already long list. 
 

I think you are right, but I’m not discounting someone deciding he’s worth retaining assuming the contract is not silly. 

 

 

There are 20 Gibsons lying around.  I’d take a shot on a different one who fumbles less. 

[NickyJ]

Andrew Wylie needs to be put on notice. The Eagles just let their 1st round OT hit the market and the Commies need to kick his tires. He's got low mileage.

 

 

Edited November 18, 2023 by NickyJ

[skinny21]

19 hours ago, MartinC said:

 

I agree that’s by far the most likely outcome.

 

But we have a lot of needs entering next offseason and draft. OT (x2?) OG, TE, WR3/Bigger X type, LB, CB (even if Fuller comes back), FS. 
 

At RB I think Robinson is a good back. He could be upgraded but he’s a solid RB1. Gibson is a decent change of pace guy who is better as a 3rd down back IMO - if he leaves we need a 3rd down guy. That just adds another need to an already long list. 
 

I think you are right, but I’m not discounting someone deciding he’s worth retaining assuming the contract is not silly. 

 

 

DE is a massive need as well.  Seems to me we should be able to add a DE and corner on moderate contracts, or maybe a heftier deal for an end.  Linebacker is the big one for me in FA though.  Then those 5 picks in the first 3 rounds should be able to get you an OT, TE and G.  Throw the rest wherever you want - receiver, back, DE, corner, oline, linebacker…

 

As for safety, I’m still ok with this group… if we re-sign Curl.  Curl and Forrest is a pretty good duo (they need help around them though), and Martin and Butler give some depth and potential.  Can’t recall if Reaves is on a 1 year deal.

[Voice_of_Reason]

5 minutes ago, skinny21 said:

DE is a massive need as well.  Seems to me we should be able to add a DE and corner on moderate contracts, or maybe a heftier deal for an end.  Linebacker is the big one for me in FA though.  Then those 5 picks in the first 3 rounds should be able to get you an OT, TE and G.  Throw the rest wherever you want - receiver, back, DE, corner, oline, linebacker…

 

As for safety, I’m still ok with this group… if we re-sign Curl.  Curl and Forrest is a pretty good duo (they need help around them though), and Martin and Butler give some depth and potential.  Can’t recall if Reaves is on a 1 year deal.

DE will need to be addressed because we only have 2 on the roster.

 

Butler isn’t great and isn’t developing.

 

Martin, it’s too early and he was a super luxury reach pick.  He better develop. How we spent another high pick on a backup defensive player boggles the mind 

[skinny21]

1 hour ago, Voice_of_Reason said:

DE will need to be addressed because we only have 2 on the roster.

Yep, and as of now (projecting to the offseason), no quality either.  I think we sign a pretty good DE, an ok guy (Toohill/JSW level), and then likely draft one.  Can’t go into the season w/ Jones, Henry and a handful of JAGs out from FA.

1 hour ago, Voice_of_Reason said:

 

Butler isn’t great and isn’t developing.

 

Martin, it’s too early and he was a super luxury reach pick.  He better develop. How we spent another high pick on a backup defensive player boggles the mind 

Butler was killing me earlier in the year - you have one job as a safety (not true of course, but seriously - don’t let guys behind you).  He at least had a couple of plus plays last game, but yeah, he’s not a guy I’m really counting on.  As the #4 or 5 though?  That’s fine I think.

 

Martin - I’m not ready to call him a reach, bad pick, or whatever, but it’s been pretty ugly so far.  Seems to be trending up a bit, but who knows.

 

Of course, for both of those guys (and all the safeties), it’s so hard to know how much they’re impacted by poor all around defensive play.  Not saying you can’t isolate poor plays from them, just hard to really judge them in totality.  This D is a complete crap show.

[Voice_of_Reason]

29 minutes ago, skinny21 said:

Yep, and as of now (projecting to the offseason), no quality either.  I think we sign a pretty good DE, an ok guy (Toohill/JSW level), and then likely draft one.  Can’t go into the season w/ Jones, Henry and a handful of JAGs out from FA.

I don’t want a single one of the first 4 picks in the first round going to defense.  
 

Draft a guy later and sign role players.  
 

Defense needs to be competent.  Not great.  We’ve invested so much in the defense it’s going to take 5-7 years to get over those mistakes.  Can’t double down on it.  
 

 

[MartinC]

2 hours ago, skinny21 said:

DE is a massive need as well.  Seems to me we should be able to add a DE and corner on moderate contracts, or maybe a heftier deal for an end.  Linebacker is the big one for me in FA though.  Then those 5 picks in the first 3 rounds should be able to get you an OT, TE and G.  Throw the rest wherever you want - receiver, back, DE, corner, oline, linebacker…

 

As for safety, I’m still ok with this group… if we re-sign Curl.  Curl and Forrest is a pretty good duo (they need help around them though), and Martin and Butler give some depth and potential.  Can’t recall if Reaves is on a 1 year deal.

DE is a good call. Need to add at least one edge who is a threat to create pressure. Possibly two.

 

i think we need a better true FS. I’m assuming Curl will be back. Martin is improving and has actually played pretty well the last few games, but I don’t see him a true FS. Deep half and someone who can come down and play some slot/box as well. 

[MrJL]

4 minutes ago, Voice_of_Reason said:

I don’t want a single one of the first 4 picks in the first round going to defense.  
 

Draft a guy later and sign role players.  
 

Defense needs to be competent.  Not great.  We’ve invested so much in the defense it’s going to take 5-7 years to get over those mistakes.  Can’t double down on it.  
 

 

unless we can get two starting quality LBs in free agency we do need to draft a quality LB early. 

2 minutes ago, MartinC said:

DE is a good call. Need to add at least one edge who is a threat to create pressure. Possibly two.

 

i think we need a better true FS. I’m assuming Curl will be back. Martin is improving and has actually played pretty well the last few games, but I don’t see him a true FS. Deep half and someone who can come down and play some slot/box as well. 

I believe Forrest is the FS, Curl the SS

[MartinC]

4 minutes ago, Voice_of_Reason said:

I don’t want a single one of the first 4 picks in the first round going to defense.  
 

 

Can’t force picks though. I agree we need to add some pieces on O around Howell, but you can’t reach and miss on quality defensive players if that’s how the board falls.

 

For example if Trotter is still there at the top of the 2nd I’d take him in a heartbeat to play MLB.

 

I think we are going to be in a position we’re need and bpa coincide in the first round with an OT being right there. After that who knows!

 

Need to make some moves in free agency to give more freedom in the draft. 

1 minute ago, MrJL said:

unless we can get two starting quality LBs in free agency we do need to draft a quality LB early. 

I believe Forrest is the FS, Curl the SS

Curl is certainly more of a SS. That’s why I’m saying we need a better true FS.

[MrJL]

1 minute ago, MartinC said:

Can’t force picks though. I agree we need to add some pieces on O around Howell, but you can’t reach and miss on quality defensive players if that’s how the board falls.

 

For example if Trotter is still there at the top of the 2nd I’d take him in a heartbeat to play MLB.

 

I think we are going to be in a position we’re need and bpa coincide in the first round with an OT being right there. After that who knows!

 

Need to make some moves in free agency to give more freedom in the draft. 

Curl is certainly more of a SS. That’s why I’m saying we need a better true FS.

I like Forrest overall

 

As for draft picks, I hope to see some maneuvering.  I can see us with more than one first rounder

[MartinC]

3 minutes ago, MrJL said:

I like Forrest overall

 

As for draft picks, I hope to see some maneuvering.  I can see us with more than one first rounder

If one of the blue chip OTs is there when we pick I wouldn’t overthink it. Just turn in the card. 
 

If there is a run on the OTs and someone wants to move up I’d be very open to trading back. Hard to say what could happen though this far out and without even knowing were we will be picking. 

[PlayAction]

26 minutes ago, MrJL said:

I like Forrest overall

 

As for draft picks, I hope to see some maneuvering.  I can see us with more than one first rounder

 

I hope that by the end of the season we, or more importantly the GM, has a clear sense for the future roles of Quan Martin and Emmanuel Forbes.  Will Martin develop if he works exclusively at SS?  Is Forbes viable as a CB and, if not, is a he a potential fit at FS?

 

A second first round pick could be a possibility if they trade down from the first and use the ammo to move up from the second.  But, I'd prefer to just use the trade down compensation for another player (likely in 3rd round).  It's way too early now -- definitely like the idea of a proactive GM versus what we've had in the past.  

[MrJL]

8 minutes ago, PlayAction said:

 

I hope that by the end of the season we, or more importantly the GM, has a clear sense for the future roles of Quan Martin and Emmanuel Forbes.  Will Martin develop if he works exclusively at SS?  Is Forbes viable as a CB and, if not, is a he a potential fit at FS?

 

A second first round pick could be a possibility if they trade down from the first and use the ammo to move up from the second.  But, I'd prefer to just use the trade down compensation for another player (likely in 3rd round).  It's way too early now -- definitely like the idea of a proactive GM versus what we've had in the past.  

 

there's only seven games left in the season and Del Rio defenses frequently under perform.  We're not getting a clear sense.  They're going to still need to be judged on college and the fact neither were really reaches in their draft position as much as anything

 

As for draft picks, we have two seconds and two thirds.  All it took to draft Montez Sweat in the first was our second that year and our second the next year.  We could probably get a late first with Chicago's second and San Fran's third

[skinny21]

1 hour ago, MartinC said:

DE is a good call. Need to add at least one edge who is a threat to create pressure. Possibly two.

 

i think we need a better true FS. I’m assuming Curl will be back. Martin is improving and has actually played pretty well the last few games, but I don’t see him a true FS. Deep half and someone who can come down and play some slot/box as well. 

I certainly wouldn’t say no to a FS, lol.  I do like Forrest okay there, especially if we get a better system and some upside players in place.  I guess I’m just saying I would put it priority-wise after OT, OG, DE, TE, ILB, and maybe rb, wr and corner. 

[Voice_of_Reason]

18 hours ago, MrJL said:

unless we can get two starting quality LBs in free agency we do need to draft a quality LB early. 

  We need to find quality LBs in FA who fit whatever the new defensive scheme is, pay them “ok” money and tell them not to suck. 
 

Davis will be back because he’ll still be under contract. 

[Voice_of_Reason]

18 hours ago, MartinC said:

Can’t force picks though. I agree we need to add some pieces on O around Howell, but you can’t reach and miss on quality defensive players if that’s how the board falls.

 

For example if Trotter is still there at the top of the 2nd I’d take him in a heartbeat to play MLB.

I’d trade out if the pick.

 

It’s not the new group’s fault, but with the level of investment on defense, we need full investment on offense while Howell is on a rookie deal, assuming he doesn’t tank. 
 

This should be an “all in” off-season, spending every penny of our cap room and borrowing from the future the way the Eagles do.

 

I’d spend short-term big on defense and draft offense so they’re under contract longer with Howell. 
 

And **** Ron for spending so many draft picks on defense and then having the defense stink. 

[DWinzit]

15 minutes ago, Voice_of_Reason said:

  We need to find quality LBs in FA who fit whatever the new defensive scheme is, pay them “ok” money and tell them not to suck. 
 

Davis will be back because he’ll still be under contract. 

We shouldn't need to tell them not to suck. We should know that the FA's at all positions are good fits into the scheme's to be fielded. 

 

Davis is really the worthy guy to return anyways, the rest have given little reason to be considered for resigning. 

 

They will need to go quality FA and draft at least one LB in a mid round. That's what they should have done the last 2 or 3 years at least.

1 minute ago, Voice_of_Reason said:

I’d spend short-term big on defense and draft offense so they’re under contract longer with Howell. 
 

yes, heavy offense with both legit weapons and heavy on quality protection.

1 minute ago, Voice_of_Reason said:

And **** Ron for spending so many draft picks on defense and then having the defense stink. 

Damn straight!!!

[Voice_of_Reason]

19 hours ago, MartinC said:

If one of the blue chip OTs is there when we pick I wouldn’t overthink it. Just turn in the card. 
 

If there is a run on the OTs and someone wants to move up I’d be very open to trading back. Hard to say what could happen though this far out and without even knowing were we will be picking. 

I think we should trade up to get a blue chip tackle if we need to.

 

Slide Leno to RT, eject Wylie.

 

Have to see how Stromboli develops.  If he can be an answer at C, then you just start stockpiling guards and TEs in the middle of the draft.

 

And I think that new analytics guy has said the same….

[formerly4skins]

19 hours ago, PlayAction said:

Is Forbes viable as a CB and, if not, is a he a potential fit at FS?

 

I think Forbes small stature would probably make him at FS a non-starter. You need to have guys in those Safety spots who are capable of ending the play with contact when it gets to them. 

[CobraCommander]

2 minutes ago, formerly4skins said:

 

I think Forbes small stature would probably make him at FS a non-starter. You need to have guys in those Safety spots who are capable of ending the play with contact when it gets to them. 

Yeah I don’t know about FS. Maybe he could be a coat stand in the coaches office?

 

 

That’s an actual picture of Forbes.

[MartinC]

1 hour ago, Voice_of_Reason said:

I think we should trade up to get a blue chip tackle if we need to.

 

Slide Leno to RT, eject Wylie.

 

Have to see how Stromboli develops.  If he can be an answer at C, then you just start stockpiling guards and TEs in the middle of the draft.

 

And I think that new analytics guy has said the same….

The good news is there are at least 4 OTs that will go first round and be a day one starter for us. We need to see where we are picking before we start speculating about who may or may not be there.

 

I would be reluctant to trade up. We need every pick we have. 

[PlayAction]

1 hour ago, formerly4skins said:

 

I think Forbes small stature would probably make him at FS a non-starter. You need to have guys in those Safety spots who are capable of ending the play with contact when it gets to them. 

 

To be fair to Forbes, he is a good tackler.  I wouldn't have him play SS but I thought he might be good on the deep routes with his eyes to the QB.  I just don't want him one-on-one with bigger WRs anymore. Let him play to his strengths.   

2 minutes ago, MartinC said:

The good news is there are at least 4 OTs that will go first round and be a day one starter for us. We need to see where we are picking before we start speculating about who may or may not be there.

 

I would be reluctant to trade up. We need every pick we have. 

 

Even when we have a choice of 4, there are never any guarantees that a team will chose the "best" one or that the player won't suffer an injury.  I hope the GM has a policy of keeping picks (and acquiring more) except under very special circumstances.  

[Voice_of_Reason]

45 minutes ago, MartinC said:

The good news is there are at least 4 OTs that will go first round and be a day one starter for us. We need to see where we are picking before we start speculating about who may or may not be there.

 

I would be reluctant to trade up. We need every pick we have. 

We need blue chip players.  
 

It’s worth a mid round pick to move up a few spots to get a player with a significantly higher grade at a marquis position. 
 

Agree it’s too soon to make draft plans, we don’t even know where we’ll be drafting yet.  But if we’re at ~12 and there is a huge talent gap between tackle 3 and 4 and you have to move up to 8 to get a guy and it’s not too expensive, you do it.  
 

Be aggressive.  Attack success.