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CT: Increasingly under fire as potential health hazards, gas stoves could be banned in 2023, top federal official says: ‘It’s a real possibility’

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Renegade7

Renegade7

Posted
Posted (edited)
8 minutes ago, CousinsCowgirl84 said:

Global warming might be civilization ending but I doubt it causes extinction of humans. 

 

I'm not even sure the point of throwing this out there.

 

Like any good would come from a global multi-generational dark age with extreme climate changes we'd have no choice but to adapt to on foot and hope we right.

 

We better off trying to avoid that if we can.

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CousinsCowgirl84

CousinsCowgirl84

Posted
Posted
1 minute ago, Renegade7 said:

 

I'm not even sure the point of throwing this out there.

 

Like any good would come from a global multi-generational dark age with extreme climate changes we'd have no choice but to adapt to in foot and hope we right.

 

We better off trying to avoid that if we can.

I guess I’m saying it’s more likely civilization collapses thab we move on from natural gas any time soon. Even if nuclear fission was commercial viable today the build out to replace fossil fuel generated power will take at least a century.

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Renegade7

Renegade7

Posted
Posted (edited)
6 minutes ago, CousinsCowgirl84 said:

I guess I’m saying it’s more likely civilization collapses thab we move on from natural gas any time soon. Even if nuclear fission was commercial viable today the build out to replace fossil fuel generated power will take at least a century.

 

I'm not even sure we'd need a single technology to replace the production of natural gas (at least that's not a realistic scenario right now to do a one for one).

 

It can and should be a combo of power sources. 

 

For example, estimates of the amount of power generated by every house in the US having a solar panel would be close to the same as what we are currently trying getting from natural gas (around 40%):

 

https://www.google.com/amp/s/arstechnica.com/science/2018/02/a-solar-panel-on-every-roof-in-the-us-here-are-the-numbers/amp/

 

https://www.eia.gov/tools/faqs/faq.php?id=427&t=3

 

We should be giving more tax credits to do this in lieu of dismantling all our coal plants first then natural gas plants second, imo.

 

Edit: I'm not buying calling fission green, but it's not fossil fuels, and needs more investment in the going green conversation.

Edited by Renegade7
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CousinsCowgirl84

CousinsCowgirl84

Posted
Posted (edited)

Putting solar panels on every roof is also a century away, even if they were fully subsidized by the government.

 

How many panels would you need to cover every house in America with panels? How many can we/could we produce in a year, how many will need to be relaxed each year, how long would installation take? Maintenance on the panels and inverters, storage costs, ect??

 

the advantage of solar is it lowers distribution cost/waste but it isn’t going to replace centralized production.

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Renegade7

Renegade7

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Posted
2 hours ago, tshile said:

If I were to guess this solution is probably heavily influenced by apartment buildings full of gas stove/oven units 

 

and kids

 

and people who don’t use their vents and are in a small space and reliant on someone else to make sure things function correctly, were done correctly, etc. or are people who just moved in and went “oh sweet gas stove neat” and don’t understand they have to vent it. Etc. 

 

usually bans like this (assuming it’s ventilation related) are because of rampant ignorance/negligence and it being unreasonable for that to be fixed/addressed 

 

I look forward to an official statement from the government calling us too stupid to not to have better luck keeping us alive by just banning something instead. Be straight :ols:

 

There might be politicians that come close to saying that about guns, but I've never seen a single government agency give an official report saying that to back it up.

 

I for one am insulted everytime push back on photo ID for voting requirements get blocked because it disporprtiantly impacts black people, like what is it about us specificly that government officials are saying we can't get IDs so requiring one is discrimination? 🤔

 

More specifics would be helpful towards addressing that, because it comes across as an assumption that I never hear about regarding other races (Asians can get their photo ids jus fine, Hispanics too, but we cant?)

 

************

 

 

That was a ramble, my main take away from this thread is its all fun and games trying to save the planet until it comes back to how it impacts us on how to do it.

 

 

giphy (51).gif

2 minutes ago, CousinsCowgirl84 said:

Putting solar panels on every roof is also a century away, even if they were fully subsidized by the government.

 

Says who and what report for that kinda estimate?

 

We could see nearly every gas powered car off the road in close to half that because of commitments and bans on building new gas powered vehicles by 2035 (that's 12 years from now).

 

Fully subsidize solar panels on people's houses and mess around folks gonna start getting visas to come over here and help install them all to help with the demand.  Worth a shot, imo.

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CousinsCowgirl84

CousinsCowgirl84

Posted
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7 minutes ago, Renegade7 said:

 

 

 

giphy (51).gif

Says who and what report for that kinda estimate?

 

.

Honestly, common sense.

 

 

We could see nearly every gas powered car off the road in close to half that because of commitments and bans on building new gas powered vehicles by 2035 (that's 12 years from now
 

doubtful, but there is a much greater chance of this. I just don’t think you have a good understanding of the scope of the infrastructure and production capabilities we have or even could have to expedite buildouts like you are dreaming of.

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Renegade7

Renegade7

Posted
Posted (edited)
6 minutes ago, CousinsCowgirl84 said:

Honestly, common sense.

 

Right...

 

6 minutes ago, CousinsCowgirl84 said:

doubtful, but there is a much greater chance of this. I just don’t think you have a good understanding of the scope of the infrastructure and production capabilities we have or even could have to expedite buildouts like you are dreaming of.

 

I do better then you assuming I don't. 

 

I'm tired of excuses, even if we need help from overseas, so be it, but knowing it needs to be ramped up is not an excuse not to try.

 

If you want to put down what we need to do compared to where we are since you saying it's common sense, go for it.

 

But stop throwing up its more likely our society collapses then we figure this out, it doesn't help, not an option, and frankly a cop out with respect to future generations. 

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CousinsCowgirl84

CousinsCowgirl84

Posted
Posted
4 minutes ago, Renegade7 said:

 

Right...

 

 

I do better then you assuming you don't. 

 

I'm tired of excuses, even if we need help from overseas, so be it, but knowing it needs to be ramped up is not an excuse not to try.

 

If you want to put down what we need to do compared to where we are sense you saying it's common sense, go for it.

 

But stop throwing up its more like our society collapses then we figure this out, it doesn't help, not an option, and frankly a cop out with respect to future generations. 

How many panels do you think are required to cover every roof in America with panels, my house took 40 panels. There are 140 million single family homes in the United States. We would need around 6billion solar panel. Plus the yearly faultier rate of them.

 

how long do you reckon it will take to install 6 billion solar panels?

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Renegade7

Renegade7

Posted
Posted (edited)
39 minutes ago, CousinsCowgirl84 said:

How many panels do you think are required to cover every roof in America with panels, my house took 40 panels. There are 140 million single family homes in the United States. We would need around 6billion solar panel. Plus the yearly faultier rate of them.

 

how long do you reckon it will take to install 6 billion solar panels?

 

How long did it take you to purchase the panels and have them installed?  My neighbor just did this, it was not overnight, more like a couple months from when he moved in and they were installed.

 

The reason why I ask this because a lot times I look at our growing solar capacity, it's mentioned in terms of kW, not clearly the number of panels.

 

Over 80% of US solar panels are coming in as imports from other countries a year already:

 

https://electrek.co/2022/09/01/us-solar-panels/

 

My emphasis on not leaving this conversation at current capacity is what seems to be a speeding up of reports and announcements to take these green initiatives more seriously.

 

Because to your question, organization like SIEA predict at current rates and estimates US solar production will quadruple in about a decade (I don't think that's enough or will stay that way meaning no additional ramp up efforts):

 

https://www.seia.org/news/solar-industry-sets-records-2020-track-quadruple-2030#:~:text=Solar Industry Sets Records in 2020%2C On Track to Quadruple by 2030,-Tuesday%2C Mar 16&text=According to Wood Mackenzie's 10,GWdc over the next decade

 

China on the other hand is reportedly doubling the amount of solar installations this year compared to last year alone (completely blowing us away while showing whats possible if we clarify our priorities with our policies):

 

https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&source=web&rct=j&url=https://www.reuters.com/business/energy/china-solar-installations-more-than-double-first-half-assn-2022-07-21/&ved=2ahUKEwih-IjG8ZL8AhU1p3IEHRlhBOwQFnoECB4QAQ&usg=AOvVaw2wXT0xtoJStyANIX17eEMJ

 

Bringing back a little to this thread, Cali put this plan out just this month in aims of zero emissions goals by 2045 (mostly dependent on moving away from gas vehicles, to help keep conversation honest):

 

https://www.google.com/amp/s/amp.cnn.com/cnn/2022/12/16/us/california-carbon-neutrality-plan-2045/index.html

 

Quote

Beginning in 2026, all new residential buildings will be required to install electric appliances and in 2029, the requirements will begin extending to commercial buildings, according to the plan. For existing residential buildings, all appliance sales are required to be electric by 2035. Ten years later, all commercial buildings in the state will have to follow suit, the plan said.

 

Like I figured, it will be too difficult to get non-electric appliances at some point versus being forced to rip them out and replace them.

 

 

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CousinsCowgirl84

CousinsCowgirl84

Posted
Posted
5 hours ago, Renegade7 said:

 

How long did it take you to purchase the panels and have them installed?  My neighbor just did this, it was not overnight, more like a couple months from when he moved in and they were installed.

 

The reason why I ask this because a lot times I look at our growing solar capacity, it's mentioned in terms of kW, not clearly the number of panels.

 


The relationship is linear. Right now a panel provides around 400w of power in the very most optimal conditions.  My point in bringing up # of panels is that there are production constraints.

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Renegade7

Renegade7

Posted
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6 minutes ago, CousinsCowgirl84 said:


The relationship is linear. Right now a panel provides around 400w of power in the very most optimal conditions.  My point in bringing up # of panels is that there are production constraints.

 

I mean, no ****, but those production capabilities are clearly ramping up, so are you asking this question based on current capacity, because I don't see how that question makes sense in context to the speed with which production capacity is growing. 

 

You'd almost need to make an estimate (something I've been looking for with respect to either some government, non-profit, or anyone agreeing with the proposal to put solar panels on every single family home no matter what as part of a larger picture versus specifically compensating for changes in our dependence on fossil fuels).

 

Even if we did that, we'd need to solve the issue of more energy being generated in places where it's needed less then other parts of the country, moving the power will become jus as important to generating it in context of moving away from fossil fuels because of the nature of many of the green alternatives like wind and solar.

 

 But it can be done and should be the goal regardless of how hard it's gonna be.  Not trying should be considered unacceptable.

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Spaceman Spiff

Spaceman Spiff

Posted
Posted (edited)

Then I'll get a wood stove.

 

Bought a house last summer that's great but we went from a house with a gas stove (boils water in no time flat) to a house with an electric stove (can watch almost a full quarter of football if you want to boil a pot of water) and it's absurd.  I'm not a great cook by any stretch but I always felt that since I could see the flame I had a better idea of how hot things were.  To @Hersh's point, I probably couldn't taste the difference in meals cooked.  But I could also do a 100 mile drive in an '83 Toyota Tercel hatchback or a really nice, spacious SUV.  If that doesn't illustrate the difference for the "if the end is the same, it doesn't matter how you got there" argument, then I don't know what does.  

 

*deep breath*

 

This is about government overreach and where "we know what's best for you" comes into play.  It's a weird hill to die on and I'm not going to die on it like that Ronny Jackson dude appears to but this is where the old conservative me that's mostly dead starts to bubble up inside.  **** off government, go solve some real problems.  

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PokerPacker

PokerPacker

Posted
Posted
15 minutes ago, Spaceman Spiff said:

Then I'll get a wood stove.

 

Bought a house last summer that's great but we went from a house with a gas stove (boils water in no time flat) to a house with an electric stove (can watch almost a full quarter of football if you want to boil a pot of water) and it's absurd.  I'm not a great cook by any stretch but I always felt that since I could see the flame I had a better idea of how hot things were.  To @Hersh's point, I probably couldn't taste the difference in meals cooked.  But I could also do a 100 mile drive in an '83 Toyota Tercel hatchback or a really nice, spacious SUV.  If that doesn't illustrate the difference for the "if the end is the same, it doesn't matter how you got there" argument, then I don't know what does.  

 

*deep breath*

 

This is about government overreach and where "we know what's best for you" comes into play.  It's a weird hill to die on and I'm not going to die on it like that Ronny Jackson dude appears to but this is where the old conservative me that's mostly dead starts to bubble up inside.  **** off government, go solve some real problems.  

I still haven't forgiven them for taking away my leaded gasoline.

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