tshile Posted February 28, 2023 Share Posted February 28, 2023 13 minutes ago, Redwards said: And he chose one of the worst names and rebrands on the planet. I think the real story is in the loan the league gave him to buy out the 40%, and the rebrand, and how it all ties to the sale of the team. I know the common perception is Tanya being booed was the turning point. im willing to bet it goes back to the fight with the minority owners, etc. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PleaseBlitz Posted February 28, 2023 Share Posted February 28, 2023 Just now, tshile said: Literally everyone reporting rumors that have been building for 10ish years about snyder’s ****ty financial practices and how it’s created a hole he can’t get out of at a time where he has no friends to bail him out. pleaseblitz in here saying everything’s fine and he could get out of it if he wanted to 😂 At least have the balls to quote or @ me. And, OBVIOUSLY, I've not said "everything's fine" or anything close to that. I've said his "cash flow" problems are a solvable problem that won't be the thing that forces him to sell. 3 1 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BatteredFanSyndrome Posted February 28, 2023 Share Posted February 28, 2023 15 minutes ago, PleaseBlitz said: I read the whole article. Calling someone "poor in comparison to other NFL owners" is a meaningless sentence. As is "all he has is one $6 billion asset." I think Galdi, Sheehan and their ilk just want the sale to happen so bad, they are viewing the facts laid out in the ESPN article as supporting their desired outcome. I want the sale to happen SO BAD too, but I read the facts as not really supporting that conclusion. He makes every move on loan, and lives an incredibly lavish lifestyle, with no other sources of income. That’s vastly different than others in his position. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tshile Posted February 28, 2023 Share Posted February 28, 2023 1 minute ago, Skinsinparadise said: According to Keim among others, they think the NFL is serious about him paying back the loan by 2026 and won't allow Dan to go into further major debt to buy the stadium withj the other debt hanging. The idea the NFL would bail out snyder at this point seems laughable. Just now, PleaseBlitz said: At least have the balls to quote or @ me. And, OBVIOUSLY, I've not said "everything's fine" or anything close to that. I've said his "cash flow" problems are a solvable problem that won't be the thing that forces him to sell. Lol have the balls get the **** out of here with your bull****. you’re dead wrong on this one but don’t let that stop you 😂 literally the only person saying any of this nonsense 😂 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PleaseBlitz Posted February 28, 2023 Share Posted February 28, 2023 2 minutes ago, Skinsinparadise said: They lent him another 450 million to buy out the minority owners, waiving their debt limit for him to do it. According to Keim among others, they think the NFL is serious about him paying back the loan by 2026 and won't allow Dan to go into further major debt to buy the stadium withj the other debt hanging. Let's say Keim among others are making all of that up for argument sake. Where do you have it that "all the facts" point to him being able to get further waivers? That he's never been denied a waiver to anyone's knowledge. Has any owner ever been denied a debt waiver by the NFL? I quickly looked and couldn't find anything. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
slinky Posted February 28, 2023 Share Posted February 28, 2023 20 minutes ago, kingdaddy said: If there is any justice in this world the REDSKINS (or better-than-Commanders alternative new team name) will win the Super Bowl the season after Dan sells....and the following season there will be a waiting list for season tickets. fixed it for you. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tshile Posted February 28, 2023 Share Posted February 28, 2023 2 minutes ago, BatteredFanSyndrome said: He makes every move on loan, and lives an incredibly lavish lifestyle, with no other sources of income. That’s vastly different than others in his position. If I recall correctly the only reason he got the team was he came in with a huge increase to his bid at the last minute - all of it on loan. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
primetime441 Posted February 28, 2023 Share Posted February 28, 2023 Did we really think Dan was going to leave quietly? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BRAVEONAWARPATH Posted February 28, 2023 Share Posted February 28, 2023 Just now, primetime441 said: Did we really think Dan was going to leave quietly? Nope....but he IS leaving...and that's all that matters. 3 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Skinsinparadise Posted February 28, 2023 Share Posted February 28, 2023 (edited) 6 minutes ago, PleaseBlitz said: That he's never been denied a waiver to anyone's knowledge. Has any owner ever been denied a debt waiver by the NFL? I quickly looked and couldn't find anything. A big part of the narrative of the sale happening by multiple fronts not just Keim who typically is almost fool proof correct about things is that Dan's debt, declining cash flow and leveraging himself too much coupled with the need for a stadium in the offing at 3 billion or so -- is a main catalyst for Dan selling. If I read you right you think the NFL will allow Dan to go as deep into debt as needed to do whatever he wants even in the context of piling on to his current debt. Keim among others have suggested they don't think so. Edited February 28, 2023 by Skinsinparadise 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
primetime441 Posted February 28, 2023 Share Posted February 28, 2023 2 minutes ago, BRAVEONAWARPATH said: Nope....but he IS leaving...and that's all that matters. Not sure exactly how this works, but my guess is if the process goes into courts, we could see this hell drag on for quite some time. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ntotoro Posted February 28, 2023 Share Posted February 28, 2023 3 minutes ago, primetime441 said: Not sure exactly how this works, but my guess is if the process goes into courts, we could see this hell drag on for quite some time. I don't think he has the liquid assets for a long court challenge... unless he sells the team... 1 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Est.1974 Posted February 28, 2023 Share Posted February 28, 2023 46 minutes ago, PleaseBlitz said: "Struggling financially compared to other NFL teams" is a weird phrasing. It's like calling someone the smallest offensive lineman in the NFL. He’s clearly in the ****, but yeah I agree with you. Our cash spend was relatively low in 2022, I believe ranked 23 from 32 in actual cash spend. Interestingly higher than 2 of our divisional rivals. This year we are currently projecting a similar ranking. The FA period will clearly impact that. But it’s not like we’re rock bottom in the league by millions. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
primetime441 Posted February 28, 2023 Share Posted February 28, 2023 1 minute ago, Est.1974 said: He’s clearly in the ****, but yeah I agree with you. Our cash spend was relatively low in 2022, I believe ranked 23 from 32 in actual cash spend. Interestingly higher than 2 of our divisional rivals. This year we are currently projecting a similar ranking. The FA period will clearly impact that. But it’s not like we’re rock bottom in the league by millions. That probably means the other owners are in deeper **** 👀 😬 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PleaseBlitz Posted February 28, 2023 Share Posted February 28, 2023 7 minutes ago, Skinsinparadise said: A big part of the narrative of the sale happening by multiple fronts not just Keim who typically is almost fool proof correct about things is that Dan's debt, declining cash flow and leveraging himself too much coupled with the need for a stadium in the offing at 3 billion or so -- is a main catalyst for Dan selling. If I read you right you think the NFL will allow Dan to go as deep into debt as needed to whatever he wants even in the context of his current debt. Keim among others have suggested they don't think so. To be clear, I think Snyder is considering selling because of many factors, primarily the fact that everyone from the fans to the owners hates him, and the fact that he is despised is a huge barrier to him doing what he wants with the franchise (e.g., get a lucrative stadium deal, fill the stadium, hire coaches and other staff), which all impact the bottom line. What I am disagreeing with is the notion that, absent all of those other factors, he can't afford to keep the team because of supposed "cash-flow" issues. The EPSN article states that he has a ton of debt, but it also states that he's had zero trouble accessing more credit whenever he needs it. My original post on this topic said "I guess I don't really understand the tweets by Al Galdi and Kevin Sheehan about Snyder not being able to afford the team and his cash flow problems. You know what cures cash flow problems? Owning an asset worth $6 billion." That is objectively true. I didn't argue that his overall financial condition is great, I said that cash-flow issues are a solvable problem when you own an asset worth $6 billion. Some others in this thread don't seem to understand the nuance (and are probably just upset that anyone thinks there is a possibility that Snyder won't have to sell). 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Skinsinparadise Posted February 28, 2023 Share Posted February 28, 2023 (edited) 5 minutes ago, PleaseBlitz said: My original post on this topic said "I guess I don't really understand the tweets by Al Galdi and Kevin Sheehan about Snyder not being able to afford the team and his cash flow problems. You know what cures cash flow problems? Owning an asset worth $6 billion." That is objectively true. I didn't argue that his overall financial condition is great, I said that cash-flow issues are a solvable problem when you own an asset worth $6 billion. Some others in this thread don't seem to understand the nuance (and are probably just upset that anyone thinks there is a possibility that Snyder won't have to sell). The ESPN article isn't the first rodeo about his cash flow. There have been plenty of others. There have been national and local reporters referencing it. It's been an issue that's digested from so many different angles by so many people. Heck in a way even Rivera referenced it. Speaking for myself there is too much I digested on this to be convinced otherwise -- its a 10 out of 10 for me as to believing Dan's cash issues in billiionare terms running a billionaire asset not layman's terms indeed looms large over all of this. Edited February 28, 2023 by Skinsinparadise Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tshile Posted February 28, 2023 Share Posted February 28, 2023 I’m actually super concerned he won’t sell because he dupes someone into being a minority partner. Given everything we know that would be his only way out of the hole he dug himself, and even then it wouldn’t be easy. Part of me thinks we should be past that possibility at this point but who knows. Just now, Skinsinparadise said: It's been an issue that's digested from so many different angles by so many people. Heck in a way even Rivera referenced it. Yeah. Our off-season is on a budget 😂 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mistertim Posted February 28, 2023 Share Posted February 28, 2023 (edited) 39 minutes ago, PleaseBlitz said: Unsurprisingly, you are not following. I'm not claiming that Snyder "has this money." I'm saying it's a solvable problem that won't force him to sell. I dunno, it seems like this is a chickens coming home to roost situation. Dan is overleveraged and it's pretty unlikely at this point that he'll be able to take on much more debt, especially with all of the current revelations. He realizes it too, hence probably why he's selling. He spent almost 25 years bleeding this franchise dry and now the jig is up. Edited February 28, 2023 by mistertim 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RVAskins Posted February 28, 2023 Share Posted February 28, 2023 26 minutes ago, tshile said: If I recall correctly the only reason he got the team was he came in with a huge increase to his bid at the last minute - all of it on loan. I seem to remember that Snyder had a partner when buying the team that he screwed over and Snyder ended up getting the team himself. I don't remember the guys name. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
primetime441 Posted February 28, 2023 Share Posted February 28, 2023 Completely hypothetical, but a 4D chess move for a potential buyer would be to come in as a minority partner with hopes that the league removes Dan and lets the minority partner buy up all the remaining stakes. (I know the process would require NFL's approval, but in a perfect world this works out great for someone who can't dish out all the money upfront). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LetThePointsSoar Posted February 28, 2023 Share Posted February 28, 2023 32 minutes ago, PleaseBlitz said: At least have the balls to quote or @ me. And, OBVIOUSLY, I've not said "everything's fine" or anything close to that. I've said his "cash flow" problems are a solvable problem that won't be the thing that forces him to sell. How could you remotely be certain of that? I'm no expert, but if I'm not mistaken, I believe the EBITDA was only $388M last year and operating income way less. At some point, you start to get into valuing the team at absurd levels (15-20x EBITDA) just to use as collateral. That combined with rising interest rates and it has Danny Boy sitting right in a financial **** storm. He doesn't have the cash flow OR the available collateral to get out of this one. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BatteredFanSyndrome Posted February 28, 2023 Share Posted February 28, 2023 6 minutes ago, PleaseBlitz said: That is objectively true. I didn't argue that his overall financial condition is great, I said that cash-flow issues are a solvable problem when you own an asset worth $6 billion. Some others in this thread don't seem to understand the nuance (and are probably just upset that anyone thinks there is a possibility that Snyder won't have to sell). That’s not it for me. What I’m saying is the cash flow issues aren’t really new. We’ve seen evidence of it in how the team has operated over the last several years. Eventually the well of borrowing runs dry. There is an expectation from the league that he deliver a state of the art stadium and he has no public support therefore he would need to borrow the money to make it happen. These stadiums are several billion. The well of borrowing doesn’t have billion(s) in it. The team is both his only collateral and only means of income. He’s borrowed and borrowed and borrowed some more against the collateral. There’s only but so much one can borrow. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RVAskins Posted February 28, 2023 Share Posted February 28, 2023 3 minutes ago, RVAskins said: I seem to remember that Snyder had a partner when buying the team that he screwed over and Snyder ended up getting the team himself. I don't remember the guys name. I found an article about this. Snyder was originally a partner in a bid by Howard Milstein, the New York real estate developer. Milstein withdrew his bid last month and subsequently sued two Redskins officials, saying they lobbied N.F.L. owners against his $800 million offer, which was deemed too debt-heavy by the league. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tshile Posted February 28, 2023 Share Posted February 28, 2023 1 minute ago, primetime441 said: Completely hypothetical, but a 4D chess move for a potential buyer would be to come in as a minority partner with hopes that the league removes Dan and lets the minority partner buy up all the remaining stakes. (I know the process would require NFL's approval, but in a perfect world this works out great for someone who can't dish out all the money upfront). This is what I’m worried about and have been worried about. althoufh I don’t know why they would do so hoping the league will remove him. By all accounts they don’t want to remove him and would prefer he sell because he’s tired of it or because his finances have caught up with him (which is why I find it silly the league would continue to grant waivers or loans to him…) a minority partner probably solves all his immediate issues. Namely the stadium. So the league would have to then vote him out. All reporting is they really don’t want to do that… another scenario is he sells majority stake and keeps 30-40% so he can continue to make money off it but not be a barrier to everything else. Much like I can’t imagine a minority partner signing on to a snyder owned team, I’m not sure I can see this scenario either. But it does concern me. Theoretically he wouldn’t have any power but… I think the only real solution is no one named snyder being involved. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
“Misdirection” Posted February 28, 2023 Share Posted February 28, 2023 11 minutes ago, PleaseBlitz said: To be clear, I think Snyder is considering selling because of many factors, primarily the fact that everyone from the fans to the owners hates him, and the fact that he is despised is a huge barrier to him doing what he wants with the franchise (e.g., get a lucrative stadium deal, fill the stadium, hire coaches and other staff), which all impact the bottom line. What I am disagreeing with is the notion that, absent all of those other factors, he can't afford to keep the team because of supposed "cash-flow" issues. The EPSN article states that he has a ton of debt, but it also states that he's had zero trouble accessing more credit whenever he needs it. My original post on this topic said "I guess I don't really understand the tweets by Al Galdi and Kevin Sheehan about Snyder not being able to afford the team and his cash flow problems. You know what cures cash flow problems? Owning an asset worth $6 billion." That is objectively true. I didn't argue that his overall financial condition is great, I said that cash-flow issues are a solvable problem when you own an asset worth $6 billion. Some others in this thread don't seem to understand the nuance (and are probably just upset that anyone thinks there is a possibility that Snyder won't have to sell). Your position is very reasonable. I think the thread is conflating two things 1) Dan’s financial ability to operate the team like business as usual 2) The need/desire for a new stadium I agree with you that with the team as his leverage asset he could probably do #1 with diminishing returns in perpetuity even given everything else. The thread at large seems to be taking your point as he’ll be able to afford a new stadium at least in part; and that’s where I would disagree. I believe based on everything here he’ll never be able to get the outside money or the financing to build a new stadium; and that would be his eventual forced exit as the NFL can’t let this franchise head into further ruin. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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