2023 Comprehensive Draft Thread

[Warhead36]

I wouldn't mind a stud TE. We haven't had one since the couple years Jordan Reed was healthy. Logan Thomas is aging and injury prone and John Bates is really just a blocker and not a legit receiving threat. The best offenses nowadays have matchup nightmare TEs.

[Skinsinparadise]

9 hours ago, Warhead36 said:

I wouldn't mind a stud TE. We haven't had one since the couple years Jordan Reed was healthy. Logan Thomas is aging and injury prone and John Bates is really just a blocker and not a legit receiving threat. The best offenses nowadays have matchup nightmare TEs.

 

Me too.  And its a good draft for TEs IMO.

 

On another note, loved him in the last draft season when I thought he was coming out in the draft but alas he returned to school -- now he is in this draft

 

 

 

Edited December 16, 2022 by Skinsinparadise

[Skinsinparadise]

10 hours ago, mhd24 said:

 

Yeah, if the stars align, obviously OL would be great, but I doubt we'll be in a position to take the top two OL.  Otherwise, we could take anyone.  CB would be nice, but this staff has shown they can identify and develop DBs.  We obviously don't need him, but would you say screw and take Robinson (unlikely he is there) or Gibbs if they were on the board?  Gibson is a FA in a year and while BROB has been great, you always need two RBs.  JD is also cut candidate.

 

I think they have a shot at the top guard.  He feels perfect for what this team needs.  According to Keim they value RG mainly because the best 3rd technique DT often lines up against the RG.  I never observed that dynamic personally, for example Allen lines up against the LG,  but that's what Keim said they think. 

 

Aside from blocking Jalen Carter, this dude looks like a rock in pass protection.  I often think of RGs as better run blockers than pass blockers.  Torrence IMO is the opposite.  Good run blocker but great pass blocker from the game I watched. 

 

 

 

 

Edited December 16, 2022 by Skinsinparadise

[Going Commando]

On 12/14/2022 at 4:01 PM, Zim489 said:

Too bad we dont need any more Slot WRs. Need an X. Terry is better in a Z. 

 

Smith-Njigba is a slot-only WR in the way that Justin Jefferson was slot-only--that's where they played in their college offenses because they shared the field with two other NFL receivers.  JSN is such a natural route runner he could easily run the whole tree, frequently was the outside receiver in tight formations at Ohio St, and he is definitely strong enough to line up on the LoS and win his leverage.

 

Saying we need a traditional X is a static way of looking at the passing game.  Who is the traditional X in Miami's or Kansas City's offense?  These guys move around and line up on and off the LoS throughout the game.  What you need are well-rounded weapons, and that we do have.  Terry is a beast who can line up anywhere and so is JSN.  Addison probably could too, and Hyatt definitely has an outside game because his whole deal is isolating corners in deep coverage away from the safety's ability to come over and help in time.

 

21 hours ago, Zim489 said:

I think the top 10 is weaker though outside of the better QBs. No elite Corner. No elite Tackle. No elite WR. Will Anderson is good/great but clearly a step down from the recent run of the DEs.

 

I disagree. To go point by point:

 

- Will Anderson's sophomore season was far better than Aidan Hutchinson's senior year (it was better than Chase Young's junior year), and his career production dwarfs Thibodeaux's.  He's a Chase Young level prospect and better than Thibs and Hutchinson were. 

 

- Travon Walker wasn't even as good as Jalen Carter in 2021 when they played on the same line. 

 

- I don't think there were elite WRs or OTs in '22 either.  Cross and Ekwonu were pretty good prospects and they've been alright in the NFL, but Neal was flawed and heavily overrated and hasn't been good in the NFL.  PJJr is at least as good as Cross was. 

 

-All of the '22 WR prospects had warts too.  Drake London was the most impressive by resume but he ran a tiny tree in college and had injury concerns and questionable long speed.  Olave was small and not particularly productive, Wilson was small and a spastic, unskilled route runner, Jameson Williams had zero strength or physicality to his game and was coming off a big injury, Burks had a bad body and didn't run his 40 fast, and Dotson measured smaller and slower than expected. 

 

- We'll see what happens with the prospects at this year's combine, but I'm confident that Quincy Johnson is at least as good as Drake London (he's faster) and that JSN is better than Wilson and Olave were.  He was better than them as a sophomore when they were all playing in the same offense.  Addison probably would have been the second or third receiver off the board last season too, and what's the difference between Jalen Hyatt and Jameson Williams other than Alabama hype?  I think the cream of this WR crop easily matches last year's on quality, there are just a couple less first rounders in the group. 

 

- Corner doesn't match up in top end quality, but it's deeper and has two guys who could sneak into top ten range if they run really well. 

 

- And this class has three top ten QBs when last year's had none.  Probably that alone makes this top ten a lot better and more valuable.

 

Last year's top ten was weak and four of the ten best prospects in the class were Jordan Davis, Devin Lloyd, Tyler Linderbaum, and Kyle Hamilton--they played such low value positions they didn't even go in the top ten.

 

21 hours ago, mhd24 said:

 

Yeah, if the stars align, obviously OL would be great, but I doubt we'll be in a position to take the top two OL.  Otherwise, we could take anyone.  CB would be nice, but this staff has shown they can identify and develop DBs.  We obviously don't need him, but would you say screw and take Robinson (unlikely he is there) or Gibbs if they were on the board?  Gibson is a FA in a year and while BROB has been great, you always need two RBs.  JD is also cut candidate.

 

I would be really tempted to take them as BPA picks, but looking at the current mocks, I am almost positive that my BPA would be Jaxon Smith Njigba.  He's getting mocked in the 20s and I think that kid is a top five prospect  in this class, he plays a high value position, and I think he is a better player than Robinson and Gibbs are outright.

 

No position would be off the table for me if they are the clear cut BPA.  But RB is a tougher sell because we have such good talent here already and I want to get an extension done with Gibby, which would make working a rookie RB into the rotation tough.  It's not a disaster to let Gibby walk, but I think Gibby has some locker room leader in him and I think his usage has been light enough for him to be productive on a second contract, and he's versatile enough to evolve as he ages.  And he also plays a position and role where his second deal is not going to be expensive.

 

That said, if Gibbs is the next Alvin Kamara and Robinson is the next Austin Ekeler, then you're going to feel like **** if you pass on them for Kelee Ringo and get the next Carlton Davis.  Passing on special when it's been sitting on the board for us is why we always seem to go into match ups with other playoff contending teams and feel overmatched.  Give me Robinson or Gibbs in the first and give me Julius Brents with that third round comp pick and we'll be better than if we take a flawed first round corner we aren't in love with.

 

But more than anything, give me Smith-Njigba.

[Skinsinparadise]

 

 

[Skinsinparadise]

Him and Michael Mayer are my early man crushes at TE

 

 

 

 

[Skinsinparadise]

Luke Musgrave, Dalton Kincaid among others, most stacked TE draft in years IMO.

 

 

 

 

 

 

[Ball Security]

One thing to think about as we watch games these final weeks is that we want Miami to not make the playoffs.  They forfeit their pick, so we’d slide up a spot if we make the playoffs.

[Rolo Tomasie]

If Houston goes for Young or Stroud or Levis in the first round, would you trade any draft capital for Davis Mills?

[Zim489]

46 minutes ago, Rolo Tomasie said:

If Houston goes for Young or Stroud or Levis in the first round, would you trade any draft capital for Davis Mills?

No. Enough with the mid at best QBs. 

[BrentMeisterGeneral]

As we stand today we’re drafting 21, but with our schedule and a lot of teams poised on 7 - 7 it’s likely in my opinion our record will finish 8 - 8 - 1 maybe even 7 - 9 - 1

 

If we do collapse and it drags us up to around 13 - 15 are we out of range to draft or make moves to get a higher end QB? 

[KDawg]

2 hours ago, BrentMeisterGeneral said:

As we stand today we’re drafting 21, but with our schedule and a lot of teams poised on 7 - 7 it’s likely in my opinion our record will finish 8 - 8 - 1 maybe even 7 - 9 - 1

 

If we do collapse and it drags us up to around 13 - 15 are we out of range to draft or make moves to get a higher end QB? 

I have a feeling they are going to trade up and try to get a guy available in the 8ish range.

 

Could be Anthony Richardson.

 

Note: I'm not advocating for it at this point. But I just have a feeling.

 

The only way they don't is if we get to see Howell and he plays well. Then they may opt not to make that move. 

[Conn]

With the QB desert we’re in, Richardson would be a dream. The timing of the ownership sale and FO/coaching staff situation isn’t ideal but you have to take your shots when you see them. 

[Warhead36]

47 minutes ago, KDawg said:

I have a feeling they are going to trade up and try to get a guy available in the 8ish range.

 

Could be Anthony Richardson.

 

Note: I'm not advocating for it at this point. But I just have a feeling.

 

The only way they don't is if we get to see Howell and he plays well. Then they may opt not to make that move. 

Yeah I think so too. Rivera has tried the FA vet in Fitzpatrick and the trade vet in Wentz. Neither has worked. Its time to draft a young guy and develop him. I don't count Howell, he was a 5th round lottery ticket. I'm talking about going after a real thoroughbred and committing to his development and building around him.

 

The problem is, if Rivera is a lame duck coach next year, do you really want to saddle a young QB with that? That almost always results in failure. 

[Skinsinparadise]

5 hours ago, KDawg said:

I have a feeling they are going to trade up and try to get a guy available in the 8ish range.

 

Could be Anthony Richardson.

 

Note: I'm not advocating for it at this point. But I just have a feeling.

 

The only way they don't is if we get to see Howell and he plays well. Then they may opt not to make that move. 

 

Richardson intrigues me.

 

But my feeling is they go with Jimmy G and they go nuts in the draft at O line.

 

Rivera isn't that cagey about his intentions and thoughts.  He's shared his dissappointed at the O line and believes you win in the trenches.  I think its going to be all hands on deck focused on the line.

 

I am still a BPA guy.  But if their identity is going to be ground and pound then IMO -- O line, O line, O line and a Y-TE.    

 

From who I've watched and been tracking this is going to be a uniquely good draft for TE.  

Edited December 19, 2022 by Skinsinparadise

[Skinsinparadise]

 

 

 

 

[Zim489]

Where were drafting I think im fully on the Darnell Washington line. I think we miss out on the tier 1 OTs. Want no part of Ron picking our next QB. Too early for any of the interior lineman and I hate that value to begin with. Myers I dont think will be on the board. 

 

Darnell fits a need at being a massive target over the middle of the field that can block well. 

[Skinsinparadise]

11 minutes ago, Zim489 said:

Where were drafting I think im fully on the Darnell Washington line. I think we miss out on the tier 1 OTs. Want no part of Ron picking our next QB. Too early for any of the interior lineman and I hate that value to begin with. Myers I dont think will be on the board. 

 

Darnell fits a need at being a massive target over the middle of the field that can block well. 

 

I've been pushing Darnell Washington.  He would have been tremendous in a game like last night -- rare to see a TE who can both pass block and run block at a great level and also charge down the field and block well on the 2nd level.  Good hands.  Moves well for a 270 pounder.

 

I think if we miss the playoffs, Mayer might still be there.  He's the player I touted when this thread started but liked him for years -- I think he's sort of the Kyle Hamilton of the TE spot, really safe pick.   Too early to tell though.  In mocks he is all over the map in the first right now. 

 

Luke Musgrave is billed as a freak who can do it all but I can't find a game to watch to develop my own take.  Kincaid looks like a playmaker but he's more a F type TE.

 

 

 

 

Edited December 19, 2022 by Skinsinparadise

[Zim489]

3 minutes ago, Skinsinparadise said:

Moves well for a 270 pounder.

I really have zero idea how hes going to run. He looks slow and lumbering but then outruns some people. Hes just so massive. 

[Skinsinparadise]

6 minutes ago, Zim489 said:

I really have zero idea how hes going to run. He looks slow and lumbering but then outruns some people. Hes just so massive. 

 

He has freaky long legs but takes awhile to build steam when he is running.  I'd guess 4.7-4.75.  They think high 4.6s.  To me 4.7 range is plenty fast enough for a 6 '7, 270 pounder. 

 

https://www.profootballnetwork.com/darnell-washington-te-georgia-nfl-draft-scouting-report-2023/

Expanding on Washington’s athleticism, the Georgia TE has enough speed to sneak up seams and provide a safety blanket with his size. He can reportedly run a 40-yard dash in the high 4.6s, and although he needs a runway to reach that point, he’s not a liability in space. Additionally, there are flashes of uncanny agility for a player of Washington’s size on tape. He can hurdle defenders in open space and easily recollect his footing afterward.

Edited December 19, 2022 by Skinsinparadise

[Going Commando]

I'm skeptical about Darnell Washington.  You always notice him on the field because of his size but it feels like he makes almost no impact on the games, whereas dudes like Bowers and Mayer are authentic stars that are almost always popping.  Washington seems like a mid round TE in a first round body kind of like Njoku.  No way he ends up being as good and impactful in the NFL as the other first round offensive skill players at WR and RB.

 

First round TEs have been really low value bets the past ten years.  When is the last time a first round TE ended up being a top five player at the position?  Tyler Eifert seven years ago?

[Skinsinparadise]

Just now, Going Commando said:

I'm skeptical about Darnell Washington.  You always notice him on the field because of his size but it feels like he makes almost no impact on the games, whereas dudes like Bowers and Mayer are authentic stars that are almost always popping.  Washington seems like a mid round TE in a first round body kind of like Njoku.  No way he ends up being as good and impactful in the NFL as the other first round offensive skill players at WR and RB.

 

First round TEs have been really low value bets the past ten years.  When is the last time a first round TE ended up being a top five player at the position?  Tyler Eifert seven years ago?

 

I'd be surprised if Washiington ends up a first rounder.  I'd guess mid to late 2nd unless he blows up the combine.  My interest in him is mostly about blocking.  I've watched a lot of TEs over the years and as a blocker IMO he's very good and plays with a mean streak.  And if the game with this team is to play Marty Ball, he'd fit that theme.

 

I am typically not a TE in the first round kind of guy, the exceptions I pushed were Pitts and Hockenson.  Mayer to me though fits.  I'd take him in the first in a heart beat,  

[Zim489]

Georgia really makes zero effort to throw the ball. They smother offenses with their defense and just maul everyone in the run game. I also think Stetson Bennet is trash so they just hand it off and win with relative ease

1 minute ago, Skinsinparadise said:

I am typically not a TE in the first round kind of guy, the exceptions I pushed were Pitts and Hockenson.  Mayer to me though fits.  I'd take him in the first in a heart beat, 

They gotta fix the pass game. If Quinten dropped I would consider him but putting more assets into defense just leaves a sour taste in my mouth. Hopefully they can trade down and collect picks for 24. 

[Skinsinparadise]

8 minutes ago, Zim489 said:

 

They gotta fix the pass game. If Quinten dropped I would consider him but putting more assets into defense just leaves a sour taste in my mouth. Hopefully they can trade down and collect picks for 24. 

 

TE seems to be a glaring hole.  Logan Thomas is a shell of himself.  This looks like an unusually stacked draft for TE.   they should go get one IMO. 

 

 

 

[Going Commando]

1 minute ago, Skinsinparadise said:

I am typically not a TE in the first round kind of guy, the exceptions I pushed were Pitts and Hockenson.  Mayer to me though fits.  I'd take him in the first in a heart beat,  

 

Yeah I'd take Mayer in the first too.  I'm thinking early teens value.  He's a special case for me because I do think he has transcendent, Gronk-like talent.  I think he's a better all around player than Pitts was, and he's perhaps the safest and most obvious first round TE prospect to come along since Eiffert.  But that's pretty much what it takes to get me interested in drafting a first round TE now.  Pretty much all of the other first round TEs save Pitts (OJ Howard, Hockenson, Fant, Hurst, and Engram) between Eiffert and Mayer have been really short of that standard.

 

Bowers will be out next year and he's another transcendent player at the position, so I think we're looking at a future where Andrews/Kelce/Kittle get replaced by Bowers and Mayer as the best players at the position in the NFL, with maybe Pitts joining that party if Atlanta can get their passing game rebuilt.

 

I view the position's draft value as being like RB.  For a guy to be a first round talent, he needs to be the clear cut best player on a good team, and often times they're already at that level as Freshmen.  It's a position where natural talent separates the transcendent ones from the good ones and they tend to show it right away.