The Official ES (or E...C) 2022 Free Agency Thread Signed G Andrew Norwell, Obada, Trai Turner...Goodbye Scherff, Kyle Allen, Tim Settle

[Zim489]

6 hours ago, Voice_of_Reason said:

Again, why?  Trade Kerrigan for a 5th round pick?  To what end?  You're not really saving a lot of cap room, and it didn't prevent them from doing anything. 

 

As an aside, with the culture change from "ho hum you can twerk my nipple" Jay to a more hard-ass workmanlike approach, the 2 guys who you WANT to keep are Kerrigan and Scherff, because they are the type of culture guys who you want.  They were gone in 2 years, and keeping them didn't prevent them from doing anything.

 

Because youre a rebuilding team. You get assets for players you know wont be here. 

 

6 hours ago, Voice_of_Reason said:

This is massively, incredibly, and unimaginably stupid.  You have a productive Defensive Tackle on a rookie deal with 3 more years of control, which you are going to give up, for what?  A second or third round pick?  So that you then have to go figure out how to fill the hole you just created?  

Because youre a rebuilding team. Youre not signing all 4 Defensive lineman. So you get value back. 

 

6 hours ago, Voice_of_Reason said:

But why?  The 2021 salary cap hit was extremely minimal.  Even if they had, it really wouldn't have changed anything about their ability to DO anything in 2021.  They didn't even spend to the cap limit in 2021, so again, fine, but there really was no point.  He was the third string QB nobody thought would play.  The fact he made the roster was miraculous.  The fact he played pretty well was completely unforeseen.  

Because youre a rebuilding team. The sooner hes off the books the better.

6 hours ago, Voice_of_Reason said:

But not really.  In the end, it all kindof worked out the same.  Maybe they have a little more, but nothing particularly meaningful.

 

Also, remember, they didn't know Landon was going to be a complete disaster at that point. And he hadn't torn his Achilles yet. I know there were some who were completely convinced Collins was going to be a bust the minute who signed, but I'm sure Ron wanted to see him in the defense, because he does have talent.  The proof is, he was very good when they moved him into the box. 

You dont play a SS 16 mil. Let alone one that cant cover. Sooner you get him off the books the better. If we had cut him last offseason we'd have significantly more money to sign more players.

 

6 hours ago, Voice_of_Reason said:

Making any determination on a draft class a year out is like looking at the extended weather forecast 14 days from now.  It has a chance of being directionally correct, but it's not always even remotely accurate.  It's hard enough to predict the futures of the players in the current draft, with the benefit of an extra year of tape, senior bowl, combine, pro-days and interviews, if anybody tries to make a decision for this year based on next year's draft class, they are the fool's fool.  It's categorically absurd.  There is no justification for it.  It's impossible.

The way the Position is moving and its standing in the NFL its not though. The top elite guys are the ones competing for SBs every year. The top guys are the ones with athleticism. The ones that are set at the position from high school. Its extremely easy to see the guys out whos going to be at the top of the draft more now than ever. 2024 Caleb Williams Quinn Ewers Mccord Dart Huard 2025 is a down year but itll be Cade Cubnik. 2026 Malachi Nelson and of course Arch Manning. Sure youll have some guys pop up. Generally its about 1 a year. Maybe 2 and things change just like DJU this year at Clemson looking like a bust. But its easy to see the top of the crop just based on pure athleticism and how it relates to elite NFL QB play. To flat out say its impossible is flat out wrong. 

 

6 hours ago, Voice_of_Reason said:

You seem to be overly heavy in analytics, have a very specific way you think things should be done, and any deviation from that plan (even though it's extraordinarily flawed because it removes context), causes you great distress.  

I am very heavily in analytics. Im all for giving myself the best odds of something happening. Who wouldnt want to give themselves the best chances of something working? Youre purposefully putting yourself further behind if you dont follow it. 

 

To me the entire organization starts and ends with QB. Until we get that elite one in place nothing else matters. Its step one to building a championship team. If they are doing anything else in the 2020s they are doing things the wrong way. 

6 hours ago, Skinsinparadise said:

 

Just to chime in.   I said the same to @Zim489its really mostly about Justin Fields as to his criticisms in terms ot having some meat in an argument.  You can easily counter argue every point he throws at people as for Rivera on QB.  For example, he's dead wrong that Rivera doesn't value QB.  You couldn't realistically discard Haskins right from the jump.  Among other things.

 

No one can with all seriousness say that Rivera doesn't take the QB spot seriously -- I can't recall a coach being so over the top emphasizing that spot the way he talked about it this off season.  And even if hated the dude the way he does and made the case he's some odd pathlogical liar who constantly says the opposite of what he feels I gather just to mess with fans or he has some weird odd fetish to say things repeatedly that he doesn't mean -- we still know they did try to trade for Stafford, offered 3 first rounders for Russell Wilson and did try to trade for Fields.  And ultimately he traded for Wentz.  So the Rivera is a liar argument and doesn't believe that a franchise QB matters doesn't hold water either.

 

As far as Fields, that argument has some teeth if you want to argue they should have given up any price to get him.  I get the impression from what's been said that it was at least two first rounders and a marquee young player.  So guessing 2 first rounders and Terry?  Or two first rounders and Sweat?  I liked Fields more than most.  Would I have traded that much for him?  Probably not.  Clearly Rivera thought there was a limit to how much he'd give up for Fields.  If Fields turns out as the next D. Watson or Mahomes or name that elite QB, then Rivera will end up looking wrong.  If Fields looks more similar to how he looked last year, then good thing Rivera didn't pull the trigger.  Will see.  

Im not sold on Fields. Fields was just the most realistic option in 2020. But IMO fields will be the best option in the Ron tenure for a franchise QB. If they did the things I was hoping they would they likely would had the option of getting anyone. For a few weeks there they held the number 2 spot in the draft in mid november before the pitt game.

[Conn]

 

[Voice_of_Reason]

15 minutes ago, Conn said:

 

So I think this guy is like a Russian sleeper agent or something.   
 

There is virtually no information about him before he showed up with the Broncos last year.  
 

I was able to figure out:

- he was an UDFA out of Illinois State.

- he was signed last year and made the team,  but didn’t play. 
- it appears he is married and his wife is short.  At least, shorter than him.

 

I swear he is a foreign spy living among us. 

 

[bowhunter]

Himmelman is tall drink of water at 6'10" 320 pounds. Played tight end and DE in HS. Interesting project

[Voice_of_Reason]

5 minutes ago, bowhunter said:

Himmelman is tall drink of water at 6'10" 320 pounds. Played tight end and DE in HS. Interesting project

So maybe his wife is average sized and he’s just a really tall sleeper agent….

[bowhunter]

1 minute ago, Voice_of_Reason said:

So maybe his wife is average sized and he’s just a really tall sleeper agent….

Sleeper agent that could eat apples off of Anthony Mix' head

[Voice_of_Reason]

5 minutes ago, bowhunter said:

Sleeper agent that could eat apples off of Anthony Mix' head

He’s tall!

[seantaylor=god]

He’s got some short arms for a guy who is 6’9. Arms are under 34 inches.

[sebestian]

42 minutes ago, seantaylor=god said:

He’s got some short arms for a guy who is 6’9. Arms are under 34 inches.

you know what they say, short arms.....

 

Does anyone know why Scooby Wright did not catch on with a team,  I remember him in college and he was dominant.  Anybody follow his story at all.

[skinsfan93]

Sure most left tackles are tall but 6’10 is too tall. Wentz would need a step ladder to be able to see to his left. How does one attempt to throw over him? But seriously how does he bend down to get under the pads of a d lineman who’s 6’4 or shorter. 
 

4 minutes ago, sebestian said:

you know what they say, short arms.....

 

Does anyone know why Scooby Wright did not catch on with a team,  I remember him in college and he was dominant.  Anybody follow his story at all.

Isnt he still playing in the USFL season? I don’t really understand how guys in that league are gonna catch onto an NFL team? They’re playing what 8 games and then go right into a 17 game season with training camp? 

[sebestian]

5 minutes ago, skinsfan93 said:

Sure most left tackles are tall but 6’10 is too tall. Wentz would need a step ladder to be able to see to his left. How does one attempt to throw over him? But seriously how does he bend down to get under the pads of a d lineman who’s 6’4 or shorter. 
 

Isnt he still playing in the USFL season? I don’t really understand how guys in that league are gonna catch onto an NFL team? They’re playing what 8 games and then go right into a 17 game season with training camp? 

 

Sorry I was referring to when he came out of college.  was he not a Heisman finalist or something like that.

3 hours ago, Conn said:

 

 

That helmet is sick!!

[Conn]

Scooby Wright was just an abysmal athlete. Ran like a 4.9 and was undersized on top of it. Didn’t even maximize the skillset he did have, he racked up numbers but wasn’t an amazing tackler and was kinda stiff. Fun college player, but the definition of a try hard over-achiever in a non-NFL body. Those guys can make great coaches sometimes, but it’s cool he gets to continue his dream in the USFL, that’s exactly one of the types of players those leagues should be for—guys who love the game but just can’t hang at the NFL level, and the other type—guys who are raw and need to develop. The long-term future of these farm leagues is to have a healthy mixture of both imo.

[Indi1988]

4 hours ago, Conn said:

 

Man they knocked it out of the park with this helmet!

[xxprodigyxx]

22 minutes ago, Conn said:

Scooby Wright was just an abysmal athlete. Ran like a 4.9 and was undersized on top of it. Didn’t even maximize the skillset he did have, he racked up numbers but wasn’t an amazing tackler and was kinda stiff. Fun college player, but the definition of a try hard over-achiever in a non-NFL body. Those guys can make great coaches sometimes, but it’s cool he gets to continue his dream in the USFL, that’s exactly one of the types of players those leagues should be for—guys who love the game but just can’t hang at the NFL level, and the other type—guys who are raw and need to develop. The long-term future of these farm leagues is to have a healthy mixture of both imo.

are we talking about USFL players? i've watched most of the season (don't ask me why...but i think it's been better than i expected) and there are only two players that have caught my eye: reggie corbin and tre walker. jonathan adams has made some impressive catches but he has no separation ability and can only function as a 50/50 ball catcher...which i think kelvin harmon and cam sims can do better.

[shemp nixon]

9 hours ago, Sacks 'n' Stuff said:

Losing Terry because Dan needed a giant boat to compensate for his tiny penis is exactly what I would expect from this organization.

That's kind of a zen riddle... Dan is a giant prick but he has a tiny one.😀

Edited May 17, 2022 by shemp nixon
not done

[Est.1974]

7 hours ago, Skinsinparadise said:

I think you are missing part of Standig's point.  It's not that Snyder is in some wild and crazy cash distress situaton.  It's more that he might not be in a position to be aggressive and has to pick his spots

I think if he’s cash poor we aren’t funding 100mil in guaranteed money to Terry/Payne. It’s that simple really. Ron insists we intend to pay our own. If Dan has no cash then Ron is talking BS. Or Dan is perfectly flush with cash. It’s one or the other IMO.

[markmills67]

7 hours ago, Indi1988 said:

Man they knocked it out of the park with this helmet!

Yes to the helmet but they well and truly ****** up the White Jersey's 😠

[FrFan]

12 hours ago, Conn said:

 

[Skinsinparadise]

5 hours ago, Est.1974 said:

I think if he’s cash poor we aren’t funding 100mil in guaranteed money to Terry/Payne. It’s that simple really. Ron insists we intend to pay our own. If Dan has no cash then Ron is talking BS. Or Dan is perfectly flush with cash. It’s one or the other IMO.

 

Don't know why it has to be either one extreme versus another? You are taking Standig's point in an entirely different direction than he's suggesting -- and it feels like you are doing it to defeat his point by trying to ridicule it by making his point more extreme than he's suggesting.

 

If I go to the supermarket with $100 versus $200, and want to wait to spend more when its closer to when I get my paycheck -- that's the thought.  That point is a combination of tying a Standig thought with a Breer thought with a Lombardi thought.   Your argument back seems to be if you aren't ready to spend $200 from the jump, then you'll never spend it.

 

But that's your own unique takeaway of that.  That's not Breer's point in particular who talked about why some owners punt on doing big contracts earlier in the off season but do it later. 

 

The question is why punt on the contracts until the summer.  I used to think that was some odd ball weird position from Ron.  Now I think its a Dan thing, Breer (who is rarely wrong) flat out suggested it. 

Edited May 17, 2022 by Skinsinparadise

[sebestian]

12 hours ago, Voice_of_Reason said:

So I think this guy is like a Russian sleeper agent or something.   
 

There is virtually no information about him before he showed up with the Broncos last year.  
 

I was able to figure out:

- he was an UDFA out of Illinois State.

- he was signed last year and made the team,  but didn’t play. 
- it appears he is married and his wife is short.  At least, shorter than him.

 

I swear he is a foreign spy living among us. 

 

 

Double or Triple agent.  LOL.  Great post I needed to laugh.

[CommDownMan]

13 hours ago, Zim489 said:

You dont play a SS 16 mil. Let alone one that cant cover. Sooner you get him off the books the better. If we had cut him last offseason we'd have significantly more money to sign more players.

 

Collins 2021 was guaranteed at the start of the league year.   With his injury we could not have simply cut him last year.   We were paying him full price the moment he got injured.   

 

Cutting him last offseason would have cost the same amount of cap overall whether it was last offseason or when we actually cut him.   

 

We would have less cap this year, because it would behave like a pre- june 1st vs post- June 1st cut.   But that's same cap space just a matter of timing. 

 

Edit: link

https://www.spotrac.com/nfl/washington-commanders/landon-collins-16757/

 

Look at text/notes below contact details.   Full 2021 guaranteed salary for injury. 

Edited May 17, 2022 by CommDownMan

[sebestian]

Do you guys ever randomly think of a player or Commanders moment.  Weird, because I was thinking about Big Joe Salavia (spelling) the other day.  #95 IIRC.

[Est.1974]

35 minutes ago, Skinsinparadise said:

 

If I go to the supermarket with $100 versus $200, and want to wait to spend more when its closer to when I get my paycheck -- that's the thought.  That point is a combination of tying a Standig thought with a Breer thought with a Lombardi thought.   Your argument back seems to be if you aren't ready to spend $200 from the jump, then you'll never spend it.

Aren’t the media implying that he doesn’t have the $200 to spend and therefore Ron is on a tight budget? 

[sebestian]

Anyone else have enough of this Sean McVay  guy.

Edited May 17, 2022 by sebestian

[Skinsinparadise]

35 minutes ago, Est.1974 said:

Aren’t the media implying that he doesn’t have the $200 to spend and therefore Ron is on a tight budget? 

 

There are two different points.

 

A.  Some owners like to punt the contracts to bring their own players back until later (often the summer) versus earlier in the off season for 2 different reasons (one given by Lombardi, the other reason given by Breer).  1.  To hold on to their money as long as possible so they can make interest on that money.  2.  They get cash infusions from the league in different spurts, this timing would be closer to that spurt -- sort of like workers waiting for closer to the time they get their paychecks/bonuses before they spend.

 

B.  In general, Dan, might not have the money he typically does because circumstances have changed for him.  Years ago he had minority partners to help.  Now not only doesn't he have that but he bought them out and did it on a big loan that he has to pay back.    He's running a team that is bleeding fans both as far as attendance and declining TV ratings -- I think Dan is pretty stupid but not so stupid that he doesn't realize he has to get out of Fedex sooner than later.  Yet he's learning because he doesn't have friends in local government and is considered toxic, he's not doing well securing government help to fund a stadium like some other owners.  The thought is he likely needs to pony up 1 to 2 billion dollars for the stadium himself.

 

So he's basically paying back an $875 million dollar loan while also trying to put together over a billion dollars, maybe as much as 2 billion to pay for a stadium.  And the dude's wealth is supposedly all about this team.  So he needs the revenue coming from this team to handle his finances in all likelihood -- unlike the typical NFL owner that has some business success/revenue outside their NFL team.

 

Among other things, Rivera saying that its not economical for them to go to Richmond hit some of the beat guys as interesting.  I forgot which reporter said it, I think it was Michael Phillips who said that Bruce once showed him their spreadsheets about how they lose money when they go to Richmond but they do it anyway to build goodwill with the fanbase there.   Now, Rivera is openly saying that the cost is prohibitive.    

 

Standig who is far from a flame thrower on stuff has been hinting at this for months.  Yeah its not been a report.  But like Keim, he rarely just throws stuff at the wall for no reason.  4 other beat reporters have now jumped in on the same point.   Breer (who is almost as dead on as Schefter typically) also strongly hinted about the delay with Terry's contract is about holding on to his money for as long as possible.

 

But again it doesn't have to be a wild and crazy extreme or it isn't so.  What Standig suggested-guessed makes sense to me which is that they had a budget this off season and Wentz consumed much of it as to off season acquistions (aside from retaining their own).  And I didn't really get this part of it until recently which is the guaranteed money in contracts is a big deal for owners wanting to hold onto as much cash as possible because that money is escrowed from the jump.  Part of the charm I'd gather for the Wentz contract is the guaranteed money isn't that much relatively speaking for a QB. 

 

Also two points can be true at the same time.  Do I believe that Ron doesn't want to lose his own players down the road and doesn't want to overextend the future?  Yeah to an extent I agree.  But my gut is left to his own devices, he'd punt a bit more than he has thus far in a season that he deemed himself as a pivotal one for them to be successful.

 

Bringing this back to Dan.  I don't see this as some condemnation of him.  It's just likely pure financial circumstance.  And I was a bit slow connecting the dots but doing it now, it makes plenty of sense.  Dan is in a weird spot financially that's different from his past.  He's both paying back a huge loan while also trying to pony up major cash to build a new stadium.  We can shrug that off as mundane business as usual stuff.  But unless i am missing a key plot line its far from business as usual for Dan.   

 

But still no one is describing it as an all or nothing prospect like you seem to be doing.

 

 

Edited May 17, 2022 by Skinsinparadise