The Official QB Thread- JD5 taken #2. Randal 2.0 or Bayou Bob? Mariotta and Fromm battle for QB2 and so begins the Handsome Harem for Hartman

[BatteredFanSyndrome]

I swear it’ll be 2035 and wit33 still going to be muttering “the jig is up on these quarterbacks”.  😭

[Skinsinparadise]

7 hours ago, wit33 said:

 

 

I’ll take the pie in my face 

 

[BatteredFanSyndrome]

7 hours ago, wit33 said:

Absolutely no way Carr or Garappolo touch that kind of money. Change is taking place, the media and other outlets are soon to find out.

 

The days of Stafford made this much after a SB WIN and elite season, so I should get this are over for these dudes lol Eating off other’s accomplishments 

 

I’ll take the pie in my face if either touch $30mil and it will probably only be a 1 year deal providing team control and flexibility after year 1. 

Have you looked at the going rate for QB competency?  Perhaps Jimmy doesn’t get $30M per or a long term deal, but Carr will definitely get $30M+ per on a long term deal if he chooses.

 

Ever since the start of free agency, players of all positions have gotten paid whether they ‘deserve’ it or not.  Landon Collins, a box safety, record breaking deal ring a bell? Kenny Golladay, 4/$72M? Is the jig up on one trick safeties or wide receivers?  I could go on and on about players that cashed in via free agency that weren’t elite at their position.

 

QB without question has the smallest talent pool at the most important position.  Why on earth would that market go down?

[samy316]

13 minutes ago, BatteredFanSyndrome said:

Have you looked at the going rate for QB competency?  Perhaps Jimmy doesn’t get $30M per or a long term deal, but Carr will definitely get $30M+ per on a long term deal if he chooses.

 

Ever since the start of free agency, players of all positions have gotten paid whether they ‘deserve’ it or not.  Landon Collins, a box safety, record breaking deal ring a bell? Kenny Golladay, 4/$72M? Is the jig up on one trick safeties or wide receivers?  I could go on and on about players that cashed in via free agency that weren’t elite at their position.

 

QB without question has the smallest talent pool at the most important position.  Why on earth would that market go down?

 

We also have to understand that the Cap is going up every year as well.  The current Salary Cap league wide for this season is $225 million.  Just 3 years ago in 2020, the number was $182 million.  The Cap is projected to reach the $240 million range in a few years, and maybe higher if revenue keeps increasing.  Those QB numbers at $30-40 million will feel standard very soon.  We'll be approaching the $60 million AAV range for franchise QB's here before you know it.  For Carr, $35-37 million AAV is a bargain, considering the fact that he's thought of as a Top 10-12 QB in the league, and has the numbers to back that up.  Those kind of QB's in their prime don't hit the market like this that often.

Edited February 17, 2023 by samy316

[wit33]

2 hours ago, Skinsinparadise said:

 

OK will see.  You've been wrong for years about the gig is up for the good QBs as far as their payday because they keep getting more and more let alone the NFL putting the breaks on it.

 

Both Carr and Jimmy G are interesting for different reasons. 1. Aaron Rodgers looks to be on the market.  2.  Carr is coming off a down year, if this was after his previous season which was very good, slam dunk he's get that money.   2.  Jimmy G, the rap on him is can he stay healthy?  And he just had another injury filled season.

 

Neither player is coming off ideal seasons to say the least.

 

Initially when battling the masses here relating to Kirk and his salary demands was believing it wasn’t a sustainable winning model. I understood the market, I disagreed with it back then. The competent starter was demanding near the same as an elite starter 5-7 years ago. 
 

Now I believe the QB market is finally shifting.  

 

1 hour ago, BatteredFanSyndrome said:

I swear it’ll be 2035 and wit33 still going to be muttering “the jig is up on these quarterbacks”.  😭

Lol, there’s nuance, I believe discussion and actions around this topic has exploded amongst fan bases, media and within organizations. 

 

11 minutes ago, BatteredFanSyndrome said:

Have you looked at the going rate for QB competency?  Perhaps Jimmy doesn’t get $30M per or a long term deal, but Carr will definitely get $30M+ per on a long term deal if he chooses.

 

Ever since the start of free agency, players of all positions have gotten paid whether they ‘deserve’ it or not.  Landon Collins, a box safety, record breaking deal ring a bell? Kenny Golladay, 4/$72M? Is the jig up on one trick safeties or wide receivers?  I could go on and on about players that cashed in via free agency that weren’t elite at their position.

 

There’s truth here, I’m being aggressive with Carr not getting 30mil, that’s actually a really good number for him in the open market. If it’s status quo in the market he should get 40+ mil, i say 27 with some escalators. The length of the deal is another variable I’m curious to to unfold. This level of QB has been able to lock in 3-4 years of security.

 

[Warhead36]

When it comes to QBs you either pay for an elite superstar type, or you're better off just rolling with a talented young guy on a rookie deal.

 

The absolute worst thing to do is pay a lot of money for a guy who isn't elite. You're stuck in purgatory.

 

Burrow, Hurts, and Herbert are all gonna reset the market this offseason and they totally deserve to, but that means some of the tier 2/3 guys are also gonna get paid(a rising tide lifts all boats kinda thing)and those teams are gonna be screwed.

 

Lets ride Howell for at least this year and if we strike gold, we have a legit window to stack the team around him.

[LetMeSeeYourWarFace21]

Word is that many expect the Bears will trade Justin Fields

 

I hope we have plans to try to get him. Second half of last season, he leveled all the way up. Dude is the closest Ive seen to Mike Vick running the ball, and though his passing needs some work, he has a cannon, and he can throw the ball, I just think the Bears WR core was trash, and he hesitated too much. We can bring the best out of this kid. Dude had times when he was unstoppable last year, and he's only going to get better. Go get him, or we will regret it.....  

Edited February 17, 2023 by LetMeSeeYourWarFace21

[Warhead36]

Just now, LetMeSeeYourWarFace21 said:

Word is that many expect the Bears will trade Justin Fields

 

I hope we have plans to try to get him. Second half of last season, he leveled all the way up. Dude is the closest Ive seen to Mike Vick running the ball, and though his passing needs some work, he has a cannon, and he can throw the ball, I just think the Bears WR core was trash, and he hesitated too much. We can get bring the best out of this kid. Dude had times when he was unstoppable last year, and he's only going to get better. I hope we try to get him.  

Hard pass. He might legitimately be the worst passing QB in the league and is going to cost a pretty penny. And we have too much instability in the FO and coaching staff right now.

[Est.1974]

I’m sure I am probably avoiding the obvious, not for the first time in my life, but I just can’t see Rivera rolling with Howell as being plan A. The reluctance to play him last season being a factor in that. 

[Warhead36]

1 minute ago, Est.1974 said:

I’m sure I am probably avoiding the obvious, not for the first time in my life, but I just can’t see Rivera rolling with Howell as being plan A. The reluctance to play him last season being a factor in that. 

He doesn't have a real choice. No quality veteran will want to come here and the ownership situation will prevent him from spending the big money anyway. And we don't pick high enough in the draft to draft one or even try to trade up for one.

[Est.1974]

Tag and trade of Payne with the Bears, involving a move by us for Fields. Unlikely but not wildly unrealistic. Bears have a ton of cap space to make him one of the top paid interior DL players. We get another rookie QB contract on the books......

 

Fields and Howell 1-2 ?

[woodpecker]

11 minutes ago, Warhead36 said:

Hard pass. He might legitimately be the worst passing QB in the league and is going to cost a pretty penny. And we have too much instability in the FO and coaching staff right now.

I dunno. He really did have absolutely nothing to work with in Chicago. Great runner with a questionable passing game is exactly what they were saying about Jalen hurts two years ago. Josh Allen also had that rep after his rookie year I believe.

[Command The 414]

22 minutes ago, LetMeSeeYourWarFace21 said:

Word is that many expect the Bears will trade Justin Fields

 

I hope we have plans to try to get him. Second half of last season, he leveled all the way up. Dude is the closest Ive seen to Mike Vick running the ball, and though his passing needs some work, he has a cannon, and he can throw the ball, I just think the Bears WR core was trash, and he hesitated too much. We can bring the best out of this kid. Dude had times when he was unstoppable last year, and he's only going to get better. Go get him, or we will regret it.....  

that would be a easy NO… he isn’t arguably the worse he is plain and simple the worst throwing QB in the NFL… and he’s to old to change anything remotely worth ever being a half way decent throwing QB… add to that you would be willing to give up a #1 for him? That’s what they are expecting in return …. Again a easy NO… I’d rather them make a play after Trey Lance or Jordan Love at least we don’t know what they are whereas we know what Fields is… plus could get either of them for far less then a #1

[LetMeSeeYourWarFace21]

37 minutes ago, ashlynskins said:

that would be a easy NO… he isn’t arguably the worse he is plain and simple the worst throwing QB in the NFL… and he’s to old to change anything remotely worth ever being a half way decent throwing QB… add to that you would be willing to give up a #1 for him? That’s what they are expecting in return …. Again a easy NO… I’d rather them make a play after Trey Lance or Jordan Love at least we don’t know what they are whereas we know what Fields is… plus could get either of them for far less then a #1

 

I hear you, trust me.

 

But yeah, I'm willing to give up the 14th overall pick and next years 1st. And I disagree, Im not the biggest fan of Fields, but at this point of his young career, I'm taking him over Trey Lance & Jordan Love. Fields is going to continue to get better, what is he going into, his 3rd year? IMO, we dont "know what Fields is". Dudes a fierce competitor, his WR core (and the Bears offense in general) was ****. 

 

Put him in our offense, new OC, solid QB coach in Zampese, and dude is going to continue to level up. He wont take us to the Super Bowl next year, but DC's will be sick every week game planning against us as he continues to develop. 

 

16:40 = Insane

 

Edited February 17, 2023 by LetMeSeeYourWarFace21

[skinsfan66]

3 hours ago, samy316 said:

LOL, are you serious?  Carr will definitely reach and exceed that amount alone.  The franchise tag number for QB’s is around $33 million.  That means that the average value for a decent QB now is around that number.  He’s going to be sought after by at least 3 teams who are desperate at finding a franchise QB.  Carr will end up getting close to, or exceeding $40+ per year in his next deal.  Jimmy G is a little more complicated, due to his injury history, but I could see him signing a 2 year $60 million deal, where he gets $30 million AAV from whoever loses out on getting Carr or Rodgers (if he’s traded).

And neither one is worth close to that amount.  

[FootballZombie]

Fields is an interesting case.

 

We knew for some time that it was in CHI's best interest to float the idea that they would entertain trading him just to boost the value of their draft pick, so we can't be sure he is actually on the table, but if he is that merits some level of interest.

 

 

His passing is... bad. But he has all the tools you look for, will continue to improve, and played for a team that hollowed itself out of talent while giving him a trash O-line and WR crew.

 

The running tho? Crazy good. You can build a super hard to defend modern O with a guy like that. Gotta get the fumbles under control however.

 

Personally I'd have to really study the guy before I can whole-heatedly say he is worth pursuing, but if he is available I can't lie and say I would not be stroking my chin at the possibility.

[samy316]

38 minutes ago, skinsfan66 said:

And neither one is worth close to that amount.  

 

It's not about worth.  It's about market value.  If Carr is an above average QB, and the average rate for QB's is $30-40 million dollars AAV, he's getting that number or more from a team in the open market, no questions asked.  It's not about what you're worth most of the time, it's about what the market thinks you're worth.  The only guys that are worth $50 million plus today due to their abilities to carry their franchises deep into the playoffs are Mahommes, Burrow, Herbert and Josh Allen.  Trevor Lawrence will be in that class after next year, if he isn't already.  Lamar Jackson has an argument of being a franchise QB, and he will most likely get to around that $50 million AAV number, even if the money isn't all guaranteed.

Edited February 17, 2023 by samy316

[skinsfan66]

16 minutes ago, samy316 said:

 

It's not about worth.  It's about market value.  If Carr is an above average QB, and the average rate for QB's is $30-40 million dollars AAV, he's getting that number or more from a team in the open market, no questions asked.  It's not about what you're worth most of the time, it's about what the market thinks you're worth.  The only guys that are worth $50 million plus today due to their abilities to carry their franchises deep into the playoffs are Mahommes, Burrow, Herbert and Josh Allen.  Trevor Lawrence will be in that class after next year, if he isn't already.  Lamar Jackson has an argument of being a franchise QB, and he will most likely get to around that $50 million AAV number, even if the money isn't all guaranteed.

Agree it's about the going rate. Carr was not an above average QB last year.  But some team will pay when they are better than what they had at QB.  Lamar is trying to take advantage of what mistakes Wash with Kirk franchise tags and Clev with Watson guaranteed money and setting the market for. It maybe not be in Baltimore that Lamar gets 50nil guaranteed, trade perhaps? 

[CapsSkins]

So if Bieniemy brings a Reid-inspired WCO with him, our backup QB2 could very well be [REDACTED] who theoretically would do fine with the between-the-numbers style short passing game in the WCO (and has the relationship with Howell).

 

Gotta think the money will be spent on OL and Payne and not to forget extending Kam Curl. So we will be bargain shopping for QB2 behind Howell. [REDACTED] very well could be that guy after he sees nobody is going to make him a starter (or he might angle for Packers back-up to Love).

[KDawg]

9 minutes ago, CapsSkins said:

So if Bieniemy brings a Reid-inspired WCO with him, our backup QB2 could very well be [REDACTED] who theoretically would do fine with the between-the-numbers style short passing game in the WCO (and has the relationship with Howell).

 

Gotta think the money will be spent on OL and Payne and not to forget extending Kam Curl. So we will be bargain shopping for QB2 behind Howell. [REDACTED] very well could be that guy after he sees nobody is going to make him a starter (or he might angle for Packers back-up to Love).

I have a feeling Payne may be out the door. No reason other than educated guesswork. He has a big number that can be used on a couple of people that help the OL.

 

Obada, Ridgeway and Mathis help fill in for Payne as much as we’ll miss him if we let him go. 
 

But the key to winning is the offense. Sacrificing Payne, now that we have a legit offensive coordinator, may be the calculated maneuver. 
 

We’ll see. But I can bet we’re going to be upgrading the O and if there is a budget I’d expect Payne’s money to be going elsewhere.

[Est.1974]

6 minutes ago, KDawg said:

I have a feeling Payne may be out the door. No reason other than educated guesswork. He has a big number that can be used on a couple of people that help the OL.

 

Obada, Ridgeway and Mathis help fill in for Payne as much as we’ll miss him if we let him go. 
 

But the key to winning is the offense. Sacrificing Payne, now that we have a legit offensive coordinator, may be the calculated maneuver. 
 

We’ll see. But I can bet we’re going to be upgrading the O and if there is a budget I’d expect Payne’s money to be going elsewhere.

Good post, the drafting of Mathis in particular was referenced by Mayhew as something ‘they had to do’. Fair few variables up in the air at present but without question our OL is a mess that simply requires major investment, and now.

[shemp nixon]

3 hours ago, Est.1974 said:

I’m sure I am probably avoiding the obvious, not for the first time in my life, but I just can’t see Rivera rolling with Howell as being plan A. The reluctance to play him last season being a factor in that. 

I think they sat him because they believe he has a chance to be very good. He was always more than just a developmental guy.

[88Comrade2000]

EB should have a big say in who we bring in to compete with Sam for the job.

[Est.1974]

13 minutes ago, shemp nixon said:

I think they sat him because they believe he has a chance to be very good. He was always more than just a developmental guy.

Maybe. Not sure I buy that approach personally. We will very quickly know if Howell really is QB1 heading into camp.

[kingdaddy]

We know this much about Howell:

1). He has a big arm and is a pretty accurate passer

2). He has incredible vision as a runner and is built to run/take hits

3). He has a good head on his shoulders 

4). The one game we saw him he showed he can handle the offense

Given all of this how can we not give him a chance? Why pick him in the first place if he has shown all of these positive traits and we don't plan on giving him a chance to be the man?

Let's roll with Howell and build around him with O-line upgrades and a TE who defenses have to account for. With our defense it's gonna work.