ExoDus84 Posted October 24, 2021 Share Posted October 24, 2021 3 hours ago, JSSkinz said: Are there any clear cut studs at QB who will enter the draft next season? Matt Corral, and I think Malik Willis are the top 2. Both have live arms and great athleticism, but this draft class doesn't have any Andrew Luck type of players. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Skinsinparadise Posted October 24, 2021 Share Posted October 24, 2021 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KDawg Posted October 24, 2021 Share Posted October 24, 2021 2 minutes ago, Skinsinparadise said: You want to attract high quality players to a dysfunctional organization? It's simple. Have a long term answer at QB. Getting one isn't simple but stability at that position cures a lot of ills. Now, have the most dysfunctional franchise, potentially in sports in general AND no quarterback. I'm even starting to worry about McLaurin. 5 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Skinsinparadise Posted October 24, 2021 Share Posted October 24, 2021 (edited) 8 minutes ago, ExoDus84 said: Matt Corral, and I think Malik Willis are the top 2. Both have live arms and great athleticism, but this draft class doesn't have any Andrew Luck type of players. Those are my top 2 so far. It kind of reminds me of 2012 but without the big time top 2 QBs of 2012. In 2012 at the time you had Tannehill, Weeden, Cousins, Foles, Wilson touted as that next crop post RG3-Luck. It's still early but right now: Howell, Strong, Ridder, Pickett and probably another ends up in the mix look like to be the next crop. And depending on the draft geek they all seem to be graded pretty similarily. There is a lot of disparity right now from the mock draft types, where some will tout for example Strong as the best QB in the draft while another will say he's a 4th rounder. There is a lot of variance on these guys. I spent the most time studying Corral but I am slowly working my way through the others. The one good thing about this draft is there might be some guys that drop in the draft like Mac Jones did in the last draft. Edited October 24, 2021 by Skinsinparadise Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
philibusters Posted October 25, 2021 Share Posted October 25, 2021 21 minutes ago, Skinsinparadise said: I know he looked rough. He was hyped big time the year before. It's tough enough for me to prepare for 2022 QB prospects let alone 2023. But rough season or not, DJ is still often mentioned as a potential high pick for 2023. He has another season to make up for this year, his weapons aren't hot, that might change next year. Will see. But I don't care enough to debate 2023. I am trying to dive in as hard as possible for 2022. That is fair. I just kind have a gut reaction whenever I see mediocre college players get mentioned for high draft picks. I do think DJ has the physical tools that if he puts it together he can be an NFL QB, he is just not close now. I have watched Stroud a couple times. Against Maryland he was on time and had great ball placement, BUT he was throwing to open receivers from a clean pocket so not a good game to evaluate him. Another QB who could be good in the 2023 class is Spencer Rattler. Yeah he flamed out this year, but he is still talented. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Skinsinparadise Posted October 25, 2021 Share Posted October 25, 2021 (edited) 8 minutes ago, KDawg said: You want to attract high quality players to a dysfunctional organization? It's simple. Have a long term answer at QB. Getting one isn't simple but stability at that position cures a lot of ills. Now, have the most dysfunctional franchise, potentially in sports in general AND no quarterback. I'm even starting to worry about McLaurin. Yep. the weird this dance with the organization having a dyfunctional owner without the QB. We can't get rid of the owner, maybe someday we get lucky. So the QB is the priority. I do genuinely believe you can even win with a dysfunctional owner with a franchise QB. There is some proof of that already. But without one? Might be impossible. Rivera has a pickle. I get Finlay's point but I think he's dancing around it there. I think a simpler way to put it is: A. Dude you made a bet on the QB spot this year where you passed on the opportunity to do it. B. You thought maybe a good season would help convince a top QB to come here as the last piece. That gamble failed. C. You are stuck now with solving it in the draft. And good luck doing it considering it's not as good as last years draft. 3 minutes ago, philibusters said: That is fair. I just kind have a gut reaction whenever I see mediocre college players get mentioned for high draft picks. I do think DJ has the physical tools that if he puts it together he can be an NFL QB, he is just not close now. I have watched Stroud a couple times. Against Maryland he was on time and had great ball placement, BUT he was throwing to open receivers from a clean pocket so not a good game to evaluate him. Another QB who could be good in the 2023 class is Spencer Rattler. Yeah he flamed out this year, but he is still talented. Yeah I've talked some on the draft thread about Rattler but the combination of him having a down year and there exists character concerns make me pause. Edited October 25, 2021 by Skinsinparadise 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Skinsinparadise Posted October 25, 2021 Share Posted October 25, 2021 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NoVaSkins21 Posted October 25, 2021 Share Posted October 25, 2021 (edited) The answer is going to be though the draft and the team, along with the fans, are going to have to exercise some real patience. Formulate a plan and stick to it or it's going to the same purgatory as the last 20+ years Edited October 25, 2021 by SAli457180 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Skinsinparadise Posted October 25, 2021 Share Posted October 25, 2021 I'd add Steve Keim, Arizona's GM was mocked around the league and supposedly on the ropes before the Murray pick. the Bengals ownership is known as a dumpster fire. Yet... 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Conn Posted October 25, 2021 Share Posted October 25, 2021 (edited) It’s worth remembering that at this point in Kyler Murray’s draft season you’d have been laughed off the internet for suggesting he was a sure-fire #1 overall phenom QB prospect. And not just because of his size or the baseball questions. The consensus just hadn’t come together yet that he was THAT good, and even on draft night some thought the Cardinals were crazy to ditch Rosen so soon for a mini-me who loved baseball. Edited October 25, 2021 by ConnSKINS26 7 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Skinsinparadise Posted October 25, 2021 Share Posted October 25, 2021 1 minute ago, ConnSKINS26 said: It’s worth remembering that at this point in Kyler Murray’s draft season you’d have been laughed off the internet for suggesting he was a sure-fire #1 overall phenom QB prospect. And not just because of his size or the baseball questions. That's true. I went with my family to see the WFT play Arizona in 2018 in Arizona. We talked to fans at the hotels we were staying at, etc, and i recall my wife saying she feels bad for the Arizona fans, they are so beaten down about their team. We give them a beating that day. But race forward to now and that team is maybe the best in the NFL and we are a bottom feeder. Kyler Murray changed everything. I like to say that Bruce helped Dan finish off the demise of this team for multiple reasons but one of them IMO is he never embraced a rebuild. The philosophy is 7-9 means "we are close." We've almost always been buyers not sellers as far as giving up draft picks. In the 20 plus years of Dan, the highest pick we ever got for a player was a third for Trent. That's crazy. Supposedly, (according to Jay and Mike Jones) they could have gotten a high first rounder for Kirk but they'd rather rent him for another year to buy a 7-9 season then get a pick and take a step back. They could have traded depending on the source Trent for a first or a 2nd-3rd but nope they blew off the oppoprtunity and had to sell him cheaper. Embracing spite and mediocrity prevailed over a rebuild. When Kirk left instead of shooting for a QB in a rich draft for their spot, they traded for a 34 year old QB. That ironically was the third time they gave up high picks for a 34 year old QB in Dan's tenure. The definition of insanity is to try the same thing again and again and expect different results. 5 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
philibusters Posted October 25, 2021 Share Posted October 25, 2021 (edited) 13 minutes ago, ConnSKINS26 said: It’s worth remembering that at this point in Kyler Murray’s draft season you’d have been laughed off the internet for suggesting he was a sure-fire #1 overall phenom QB prospect. And not just because of his size or the baseball questions. The consensus just hadn’t come together yet that he was THAT good, and even on draft night some thought the Cardinals were crazy to ditch Rosen so soon for a mini-me who loved baseball. Admittedly that is true. I remember watching Oklahoma and being liked--wow that offense looks good---but still thinking his success was largely driven by scheme. College is so different than NFL in some ways. As a Maryland fan I have seen us run both a traditionally pro-style offense and spread. The results are night and day. When we ran a traditional offense, how the offense executed week to week was the primary factor dictating success. So we could look mediocre against MTSU and good against a talented Clemson defense. When we switched to a spread we started disposing of the less talented teams a lot easier, but having a lot less success against defenses with more talent than our offense. With spread offenses the reads and execution are easier, but you are really dependent on on skill positions to make people miss and for your O-Lineman to at least get a draw. But going back to Murray--Oklahoma ran a pure spread offense and I just thought they were more talented and spread offenses really accentuate talent differences and I thought Murray was an elite runner, but by NFL standards that is all he would be good at. I really underestimated him. Edited October 25, 2021 by philibusters Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tomwvr Posted October 25, 2021 Share Posted October 25, 2021 22 minutes ago, Skinsinparadise said: I'd add Steve Keim, Arizona's GM was mocked around the league and supposedly on the ropes before the Murray pick. the Bengals ownership is known as a dumpster fire. Yet... If this team had either of those guys they would Suck. Sorry but we are cursed 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GOATFrerotte Posted October 25, 2021 Share Posted October 25, 2021 I’d take Corral any day but doubt he’s gonna be there for us. Have a feeling he’ll be taken by the Lions Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Skinsinparadise Posted October 25, 2021 Share Posted October 25, 2021 (edited) 13 minutes ago, tomwvr said: If this team had either of those guys they would Suck. Sorry but we are cursed Disagree unless you mean because of injury? It's not that this team never had above average play. When we've had it, we've won but its been fleeting. Nothing hot but this was without killer QB play but just good Qb play. 2012 (Best season under Dan), 2015-2016 (only 2 winning seasons back to back under Dan), first half of 2018 (Alex didn't play hot but he game managed and was a good leader) Edited October 25, 2021 by Skinsinparadise Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Always A Commander Never A Captain Posted October 25, 2021 Share Posted October 25, 2021 The 2021 QB class is talented, but there are no quick fixes. Wilson is wildly inconsistent. Fields looks lost at times. Lance is too raw. Mac Jones is solid, but lacking aggression. Lawrence is too aggressive and needs to scale back when the situation calls for it. They all still flash potential for the future, but none are rookie season upgrades that's going to take the team up 2 notches. Any of them can have a big jump in season 2, and long term we'd be happier, but not this season...so far. I like Heinicke a lot, he's such a gamer (that fumble recovery 30 yards down the field?), but it's obvious he's a bit limited as a dropback passer. His lack of height means he can see some things a beat late, and the throws tend to sail a bit as he's gotta get it over the OL/DL. He doesn't have the zip you'd like in some windows. He can be exciting to watch, and the Packers game (if I was a neutral observer) would have been really entertaining. But he's not the future. I doubt it's Ryan Fitzpatrick either, but I wouldn't mind seeing what he can do later this season. We need an upgrade at QB for 2022. I'm not sure where or how we find that. A rookie gives us something to be excited about, but odds are it'll be an awkward rookie season. 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Skinsinparadise Posted October 25, 2021 Share Posted October 25, 2021 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Skinsinparadise Posted October 25, 2021 Share Posted October 25, 2021 (edited) PFF is just one metric at QB but just looked up the scores for those who are curious since they cover some of the QBs being discussed here. Lol, I didn't highlight Krik on purpose, my cursor just happened to be at that spot. He's irrelevant though since he's not in play. Like I've been saying it wouldn't shock me if they traded for Matt Ryan if they could get him cheap. I wouldn't hate if they also drafted a guy. I am becoming a believer that they need to perhaps get a veteran AND a rookie. Edited October 25, 2021 by Skinsinparadise Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KDawg Posted October 25, 2021 Share Posted October 25, 2021 2 minutes ago, Skinsinparadise said: PFF is just one metric at QB but just looked up the scores for those who are curious since they cover some of the QBs being discussed here So, uh, am I losing it or is Lawrence not there? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Skinsinparadise Posted October 25, 2021 Share Posted October 25, 2021 2 minutes ago, KDawg said: So, uh, am I losing it or is Lawrence not there? You are losing it look closer. Just kidding, he was ranked 42, I cut if off at 40. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KDawg Posted October 25, 2021 Share Posted October 25, 2021 2 minutes ago, Skinsinparadise said: You are losing it look closer. I must be really losing it. Even looked by team and didn’t see Jax… Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Skinsinparadise Posted October 25, 2021 Share Posted October 25, 2021 2 minutes ago, KDawg said: I must be really losing it. Even looked by team and didn’t see Jax… I was just messing with you, I edited that same post if you look above Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KDawg Posted October 25, 2021 Share Posted October 25, 2021 So every rookie not named Mac Jones is struggling. I’m actually not all that surprised by that. Jones was pretty pro ready coming out. The rest all had stuff to work on, including Lawrence (I noted that a few times with him). Going to be interesting to see how those guys all develop. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spaceman Spiff Posted October 25, 2021 Share Posted October 25, 2021 2 hours ago, Skinsinparadise said: A year or two away from you asking that question, JP. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Renegade7 Posted October 25, 2021 Share Posted October 25, 2021 So...Crap for Corrall??? 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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