The Official QB Thread- JD5 taken #2. Randall 2.0 or Bayou Bob? Mariotta and Hartman forever. Fromm cut

[philibusters]

1 hour ago, Skinsinparadise said:

 

Not always easy to tell from afar.  Will see.

 

I find it interesting that Bram and Keim for example keep referening how they can feel the vibe in camp turning in a bad way as the season approached last year and they weren't shocked at the slow start.  Tough to see that type of thing without being there around the team.

 

I got no idea about the vibe around the Eagles.  But I do know they are hyped all over the place on so many fronts.  From not having a hot secondary, to now PFF ranking it top 5.  For the WRs being just ok, to now being ranked by some as having one of the top 5 duos in the league.  On and on.

 

Does that hype goes to their heads?  Maybe yes.  Maybe no.  The movie has to play out.

 

For years I played up the Eagles FO and just about always got pushback on it here from some.  That's fine.  But I am jealous at a minimum for how good Roseman is at accruing draft picks and conversely how bad this franchise has been at it especially pre-Rivera.

 

I like the Eagles roster, very well rounded.  I don't hate Hurts but i also think he is an average QB at best so I do agree with those here who think he likely limits them.

 

The thing about the media figures saying they could feel the rive last year and were not shocked by the slow start was the universally they seemed to think the defense was pretty good going into last season.  I think sometimes hindsight affects us more than we realize and I don't think reporters are immune to that.   That is not to say, there is no truth to what they are saying.   They probably did notice defensive problems last year, more than they were expecting--but they probably were underestimating how long it would take to fix them last year during camp, so they were still optimistic about the season.  Then the defense disappoints during the season and they remember all the problems they saw in the offseason and during training camp.

[Skinsinparadise]

19 minutes ago, philibusters said:

 

The thing about the media figures saying they could feel the rive last year and were not shocked by the slow start was the universally they seemed to think the defense was pretty good going into last season.  I think sometimes hindsight affects us more than we realize and I don't think reporters are immune to that.   That is not to say, there is no truth to what they are saying.   They probably did notice defensive problems last year, more than they were expecting--but they probably were underestimating how long it would take to fix them last year during camp, so they were still optimistic about the season.  Then the defense disappoints during the season and they remember all the problems they saw in the offseason and during training camp.

 

I take it seriously because Keim and Bram talked about it during the season and continued to talk about it after the season.  Keim in particular seems brutally honest and if anything tends to put a bit of a positive spin on things.  They are the only ones that I can recall have talked about it.  But I trust both Keim and Bram as far as being forthright.

[Llevron]

On 7/3/2022 at 10:12 AM, zCommander said:

 

Why did Kirk Cousins popped up in my mind as soon as I read this? Really not looking forward to that at all. 😐

I keep hearing this from every Filthy fan. The reasoning is because after the season HIS BACK IP WON THE SUPERBOWL he felt like he was looking over his shoulder. 
 

I mean duh. Who wouldn’t. If that happens here great lol 

[Skinsinparadise]

Similarities to Kirk based on what I've read-heard on podcasts

 

A.  Both midwestern very religious dudes.  Both like to talk about it, too -- i get the impression that Wentz talks about it even more than Kirk.

 

B.  Both nice guys-friendly but also a bit aloof and introverted.  Both G-PG dudes and don't always relate to the PG-13-R rated dudes in the locker room.

 

C. Both accused of being image conscious and at times for that reason a bit phony behind the scenes by some teammates whereas other teammates will swear by them.

 

D.  As players they can be roller coasters, both more hot than cold but both when they are cold are very cold

 

E.  Both accused of not being clutch albiet some would said its hyberbole because they've both had moments too 

 

F.  Both work very hard and are smart. 

 

As players, Krik has the rap of being more consistent than Wentz even though he's streaky too and Wentz has the higher upside with a stronger arm and more mobility.

 

But yeah when i listen to descriptions of their personalities -- the narratives are very similar.  

 

I know some here hate Kirk and this idea would bother them.  It doesn't bother me at all -- the only part that bothers me is the clutch narrative but will see how true that is.  I know Wentz has had some clutch moments.  As far as personality goes, I'd be bothered if I heard he was a douche like a Jeff George type but he isn't from everything I've seen-read.  Seems to be a nice guy.   I think Ron is the ideal coach to rebuild his confidence if need be.

Edited July 4, 2022 by Skinsinparadise

[Mrshadow008]

On 7/3/2022 at 12:30 PM, Koolblue13 said:

Knowing that Ron met with Gibbs, I'm assuming that Ron is going to have that 91 epiphany that joe had with rypien. The ole Dragon technique and **** it, I'm going deep. I fully expect a big air led offense and a smash mouth run game and I'm here for all of it.

I mean Zampese did say and I quote “our plan this season is to bomb people out of existence” during his film session with STHs a couple weeks ago so I don’t think they are exactly hiding it 

[Koolblue13]

35 minutes ago, Mrshadow008 said:

I mean Zampese did say and I quote “our plan this season is to bomb people out of existence” during his film session with STHs a couple weeks ago so I don’t think they are exactly hiding it 

That's gonna be awesome. 

[Mrshadow008]

12 minutes ago, Koolblue13 said:

That's gonna be awesome. 

Zampese could barely contain his excitement like a kid in a candy shop talking about Wentz arm and ability to touch all parts of the field to go with the overall speed on the offense. 

[CommanderCarson]

18 minutes ago, Koolblue13 said:

That's gonna be awesome. 

I agree and it makes the most sense based off our current personnel, even defense. Build leads with the pass game, grind them with the run game and preserve the win with our d line pinning their ears back.

 

Trying to prolong 20 play drives with heineke was not sustainable and THAT is the value that Wentz, despite his ups and downs, will bring to the team. There won’t be a single blade of grass that you don’t have to defend anymore, and I get the sense they are pretty fricken pumped inside the building to have all these weapons. It really could be a fun year, I just have to see it to believe it at this point. 

Edited July 4, 2022 by CommanderCarson

[Skinsinparadise]

24 minutes ago, Mrshadow008 said:

Zampese could barely contain his excitement like a kid in a candy shop talking about Wentz arm and ability to touch all parts of the field to go with the overall speed on the offense. 

 

Of all Wentz things I've digested, your description of this previously and now again gets me the most jazzed.

 

At a minimum it looks like they have a Carpe Diem approach or so it seems (Hoffman alluded to seeing this in practice so far) of planning to throw the ball down the field a lot.

Edited July 4, 2022 by Skinsinparadise

[Voice_of_Reason]

6 minutes ago, Skinsinparadise said:

 

Of all Wentz things I've digested, your description of this previously and now again gets me the most jazzed.

 

At a minimum it looks like they have a Carpe Diem approach or so it seems (Hoffman alluded to seeing this in practice so far) of planning to throw the ball down the field a lot.

They should.  2 things Wemtz does well:  defined quick game where he’s throwing to his primary receiver a ton, or attacking deep.  
 

They should be a YOLO offense and stretch the field on every sequence of downs.  And compliment it with some run game.  

But I want to see nothing less than 65% pass on the season.  

 

[FootballZombie]

42 minutes ago, Voice_of_Reason said:

But I want to see nothing less than 65% pass on the season.  

 

I hope your already contacting your cable provider about picking up the NFL package b/c Tampa Bay was the only team in the NFL well over 62% last year.

 

Only way we come close to that is if we get absolutely blown out in every game, and that 'aint happening.

 

https://www.fftoday.com/stats/21_run_pass_ratios.html

Edited July 4, 2022 by FootballZombie

[Skinsinparadise]

26 minutes ago, Voice_of_Reason said:

They should.  2 things Wemtz does well:  defined quick game where he’s throwing to his primary receiver a ton, or attacking deep.  
 

They should be a YOLO offense and stretch the field on every sequence of downs.  And compliment it with some run game.  

But I want to see nothing less than 65% pass on the season.  

 

 

65% would likely mean the most in the league

 

NFL Team Passing Play Percentage

More Team Stats...

Season:                                                                          2003                                                                         2004                                                                         2005                                                                         2006                                                                         2007                                                                         2008                                                                         2009                                                                         2010                                                                         2011                                                                         2012                                                                         2013                                                                         2014                                                                         2015                                                                         2016                                                                         2017                                                                         2018                                                                         2019                                                                         2020                                                                         2021                                                                         2022                                                         

Date: 

Rank	Team	2021	Last 3	Last 1	Home	Away	2020
1	Tampa Bay	66.46%	67.98%	80.28%	66.43%	66.50%	61.78%
2	Pittsburgh	63.44%	63.18%	69.70%	61.21%	65.70%	65.48%
3	NY Jets	63.32%	52.12%	63.04%	61.78%	65.23%	57.17%
4	Las Vegas	62.88%	63.59%	80.28%	60.45%	65.33%	55.89%
5	LA Chargers	62.50%	63.51%	76.14%	58.07%	67.55%	58.65%
6	Kansas City	62.36%	64.39%	64.18%	60.75%	64.79%	62.57%
7	Jacksonville	61.87%	56.35%	51.56%	58.06%	65.26%	66.20%
8	Atlanta	60.93%	63.64%	75.00%	64.16%	58.81%	62.06%
9	NY Giants	60.10%	50.80%	57.63%	58.99%	61.08%	58.70%
10	Miami	59.71%	51.63%	34.85%	56.43%	63.65%	58.08%
11	Dallas	59.61%	62.77%	70.00%	57.69%	61.44%	61.37%
12	Detroit	59.56%	56.45%	55.93%	61.40%	57.91%	62.97%
13	Cincinnati	59.48%	65.97%	67.21%	60.34%	58.60%	60.48%
14	LA Rams	59.31%	61.32%	65.15%	59.74%	58.81%	55.75%
15	Buffalo	59.21%	56.12%	61.90%	56.68%	62.12%	61.71%
16	Carolina	58.86%	65.99%	63.38%	61.10%	56.95%	59.01%
17	Green Bay	58.61%	59.28%	62.96%	58.39%	58.86%	56.23%
18	Minnesota	58.54%	66.05%	53.19%	56.75%	60.10%	54.25%
19	Houston	58.42%	53.85%	62.50%	59.00%	57.75%	63.40%
20	Seattle	56.71%	47.51%	47.37%	55.00%	58.30%	59.59%
21	Arizona	56.44%	60.61%	66.67%	61.42%	52.68%	55.77%
22	Baltimore	56.37%	57.36%	49.30%	52.31%	61.31%	44.96%
23	Denver	56.08%	52.67%	48.15%	54.96%	57.38%	57.09%
24	Chicago	55.81%	61.68%	68.75%	53.07%	58.25%	62.27%
25	Washington	55.42%	55.11%	36.21%	57.52%	53.39%	62.23%
26	New England	54.27%	56.32%	67.21%	58.63%	49.72%	48.72%
27	Cleveland	53.98%	56.78%	37.88%	50.00%	58.54%	52.22%
28	Indianapolis	52.57%	54.71%	66.04%	55.80%	49.00%	55.87%
29	San Francisco	51.61%	47.27%	60.00%	52.02%	51.33%	58.22%
30	New Orleans	51.47%	46.11%	35.21%	55.10%	48.85%	53.05%
31	Tennessee	51.22%	43.75%	48.08%	52.34%	50.00%	49.72%
32	Philadelphia	50.13%	56.48%	72.58%	48.62%	51.35%	62.20%

[Voice_of_Reason]

5 minutes ago, Skinsinparadise said:

65% would likely mean the most in the league

 

And?

[Skinsinparadise]

29 minutes ago, Voice_of_Reason said:

 

And?

 

I like Wentz throwing the ball more than Heinicke but i don't want to be tops in the league in passing.  I get why Tampa did it with Brady. Brady >>>> Wentz. 

 

 I'd like to see Robinson-Gibson-McKissic get the rock some, and rest that defense some so they aren't always out on the field.

 

Knowing the Turner offense some.  I don't think there is much of a chance you will get what you want.  When Norv ran the Carolina offense they were exactly middle of the pack, less than 60% runs.   Keim has said this off season that they liked what they could do last year when they ran the ball and getting Robinson was partly driven by cementing that element to the offense. 

 

Scott's dad, Norv, who actually from what I've heard has been around this team all minicamp loves to run to set up the deep ball. He's not a Spurrier who likes to throw like crazy.  But the thing is as we know its not the WCO with short pass after short pass.  The YPA will likely be high, that's the likely big change.  He likes to go for it when he throws the ball.    When Scott took over Carolina's offense they did throw a ton but they were being blown out in those games so they likely had no choice.  

 

Coryell who trained ironically both Gibbs and Zampese (our Zampese's father) liked to stretch the field.   I think we will see a bit 1991 style where Rypien would let it rip deep a lot. But they used the run to pull defenses in and then would go for it. 

 

Logan Paulsen liked to talk about this some last year which is watching Scott's offense he can see how he's pulling the defense in via the run successfully but sadly they couldn't do what the set up for this was which is take advantage of the safeties playing close to the line of scrimmage by throwing deep on opposing defenses. 

 

https://www.vikings.com/news/five-things-in-a-norv-turner-offense-12601364

4. Physical Rushing AttackSpeaking of Peterson, Turner's offenses are not all about air production. He loves a punishing ground attack and, as mentioned above, five times Turner's offenses have produced the NFL's leading rusher, with Emmitt Smith doing it three times (1991-93)and Ricky Williams (2002) and LaDainian Tomlinson (2007) doing it once each under Turner's guidance. In Minnesota, Turner will have Peterson in his backfield and will turn the NFL's best running back loose on the opposition. If the opponents choose to stack the box to contain Peterson, you can count on Turner and Co. then turning to that efficient and explosive passing attack to exploit single coverage on the outside with Greg Jennings, Rudolph, Patterson and Co.

 

 

Edited July 4, 2022 by Skinsinparadise

[Koolblue13]

Run well enough to pull single high coverage, then air it out.

 

Willing to bet Wentz will go deep instead of dump offs too, which is great since we have Terry, who's a contested catch monster and it looks like Dotson might be too.

[Mrshadow008]

1 hour ago, Koolblue13 said:

Run well enough to pull single high coverage, then air it out.

 

Willing to bet Wentz will go deep instead of dump offs too, which is great since we have Terry, who's a contested catch monster and it looks like Dotson might be too.

I know everyone was freaking out about Terry but I really think him missing OTAs is a blessing in disguise. Wentz by all accounts seemed fairly comfortable with Samuel and Dotson. Dotson getting those reps as the number 1 could potentially be invaluable. Especially considering Terry has proven over and over again he doesn’t need a ton of reps with a qb to be productive. And regardless of what you think of Wentz he’s by far the most talented qb Terry has played with and still has training camp to get on the same page with him 

[AlvinWaltonIsMyBoy]

3 hours ago, Voice_of_Reason said:

But I want to see nothing less than 65% pass on the season.  

Pace yourself, brother. It’s only July. 😂

[Koolblue13]

28 minutes ago, Mrshadow008 said:

I know everyone was freaking out about Terry but I really think him missing OTAs is a blessing in disguise. Wentz by all accounts seemed fairly comfortable with Samuel and Dotson. Dotson getting those reps as the number 1 could potentially be invaluable. Especially considering Terry has proven over and over again he doesn’t need a ton of reps with a qb to be productive. And regardless of what you think of Wentz he’s by far the most talented qb Terry has played with and still has training camp to get on the same page with him 

Totally agree. Wentz is gonna **** his pants when Terry shows up. Just wing it 40 yards down field and one of them is catching it. Wentz to Terry could be special and Dotson and Samuel will have him in single coverage often.

23 minutes ago, AlvinWaltonIsMyBoy said:

Pace yourself, brother. It’s only July. 😂

Kids got moxie and hes full of excitement.

[Mrshadow008]

40 minutes ago, Koolblue13 said:

Totally agree. Wentz is gonna **** his pants when Terry shows up. Just wing it 40 yards down field and one of them is catching it. Wentz to Terry could be special and Dotson and Samuel will have him in single coverage often.

Kids got moxie and hes full of excitement.

Here’s what I expect happens. I think there’s a possibility Terry has a slow start to open the season based on the way teams are covering him. Let’s face it regardless of what we or the coaching staff thinks of Dotson/Samuel one is a rookie and one hasn’t done it in a Washington uniform so they aren’t going to demand the coverage Terry does to start the season. We need those two to take advantage early in the season. If they do and teams can’t focus solely on Terry after a few games you’ll see his numbers explode.

[Koolblue13]

27 minutes ago, Mrshadow008 said:

Here’s what I expect happens. I think there’s a possibility Terry has a slow start to open the season based on the way teams are covering him. Let’s face it regardless of what we or the coaching staff thinks of Dotson/Samuel one is a rookie and one hasn’t done it in a Washington uniform so they aren’t going to demand the coverage Terry does to start the season. We need those two to take advantage early in the season. If they do and teams can’t focus solely on Terry after a few games you’ll see his numbers explode.

I can see that. Going into year 3 of this rebuild and I'm pretty excited. 

[Mrshadow008]

1 hour ago, Koolblue13 said:

I can see that. Going into year 3 of this rebuild and I'm pretty excited. 

I am as well. I think if healthy we are atleast on par with Dallas and Philly. I think nationally and locally we are being underrated from a skill position standpoint in comparison to those two. 
I think Dallas is basically living off reputation in the media right now. They lost quite a bit on O between Cooper and Wilson. Zeke has lost a step and their TE depth is non existent. Oh and Gallup is coming off an acl tear in the last game of the season. Can Lamb produce when he’s the clear number 1 and he’s demanding all of the coverage. 
Philly has the best 1-2 WRs in the East. After that it’s a hot mess and Brown gets nicked up a lot. Miles sanders when he plays has been fairly good but key point there is when he plays. Though Boston Scott has been a decent backup.
I could argue that 1-5 we are better than both of those teams at the WR position when all healthy. They are better on the top end but I feel like we are much better suited to absorb the blow from one of our top 2 WRs than they are.  I could make the argument that our 4th and 5th WRs would be 3rd on both of their depth charts. We’ve turned a weakness into a potential strength assuming health. 

WR: Terry, Dotson, Samuel, Brown, Sims vs.

Brown, Smith, Watkins, Reagor, Pascal

vs.

Lamb, Gallup, Washington, Fehoko, Tolbert.

RBs: Gibson, Mckissic, Robinson, occasionally Samuel

vs. 

Sanders, Gainwell, Scott, Huntley

vs.

Elliot, Pollard, Dowdle, Hardy

 

TE: Thomas, Bates, Turner, Reyes 

vs. 

Goeddert, Stoll, Jackson, Calcaterra

Vs. 
Schultz, Mckeon, Ferguson, Sprinkle

 

Now for me I don’t see from an offensive weapons standpoint where either of those two teams are demonstrably better than we are. I think a lot of this season is gonna depend on qb play. I look at the three qbs like this:

Dak=most consistent on a week in week out basis. you know what you’re going to get from Dak almost every week. That’s usually good to very good but not great. 
Wentz= highest potential ceiling with likely lowest floor. We’ve all seen Wentz high which is MVP caliber. We’ve also all seen the Low. Very stark difference. Which do we get.

Hurts=biggest ? Based on whether he can improve as a passer or not. If he can’t expect teams to load the box and force Hurts to try and beat them which he couldn’t do in the playoff game. 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Edited July 5, 2022 by Mrshadow008

[wit33]

The one throw I loved from Haskins was the slant pass to Terry—he got the ball out so quick and with tremendous velocity. Wonder if we see that back in the offense with Wentz and it become a lay up in crucial situations. 

Edited July 5, 2022 by wit33

[Bifflog]

6 hours ago, wit33 said:

The one throw I loved from Haskins due to was the slant pass to Terry—he got the ball out so quick and with tremendous velocity. Wonder if we see that back in the offense with Wentz and it become a lay up in crucial situations. 

 

Carson's short accuracy seems to be one of the knocks on him, now whether it's an issue with touch passes or zipping in a slant, I'm not sure.  It's why I like that we added meaningful draft pick to the running back room, we need to run effectively to take pressure off of the short passing game.

[Skinsinparadise]

Wentz's arm doesn't need to mature. The coaches also like how he operates their quick underneath game.

The Commanders have speed at receiver that can threaten horizontally or vertically, but at its core the Turner offense wants to go down the field. Since entering the league, Wentz ranks eighth in passing attempts of 20 air yards or more, 11th with 140 touchdown passes (eighth since 2017) and 19th in Total QBR (12th since 2017) according to ESPN Stats & Information research. During that same span, Washington's Total QBR ranks 31st and its 98 touchdown passes rank 28th.

That's why Zampese won't try to change a guy who likes to throw deep.

"I want that guy," Zampese said. "We've been looking for guys like this; there aren't too many like that. It's easier to get a guy to back off than to push a guy the other way. This is hog heaven for us. This is exactly what we wanted."

 

https://www.espn.com/blog/washington-commanders/post/_/id/42425/carson-wentzs-spring-fills-washington-commanders-with-optimism

[The Hangman- C_Hanburger]

22 hours ago, Mrshadow008 said:

Zampese could barely contain his excitement like a kid in a candy shop talking about Wentz arm and ability to touch all parts of the field to go with the overall speed on the offense. 

so how does that speed matchup with the Eagles speed. Is this just between Wentz and Hurts ability to use the speed?