The Official QB Thread- JD5 taken #2. Randall 2.0 or Bayou Bob? Mariotta and Hartman forever. Fromm cut

[Skinsinparadise]

2 hours ago, Zim489 said:

I dont agree with Dan being unable to make a GM hire. If a GM gets all the power that a HC has been getting like Ron has been getting, he should be able to hire one of the rising guys. GM jobs open up even less than QB jobs. We almost had gotten Rick Smith as GM before going the Ron route. 

 

 

Dont tell me its not possible. I 1000% wish we went the Rick Smith route.

 

Your point about Dan has it in him to pull a good GM move is consistent with your desire for Rivera to be gone unless i am misreading your point about Ron.  Both points inherently involve having some faith in Dan.   You believe he can get that right hire at GM.  And you apparently believe he can replace Rivera with another "better" hire. 

 

I got no faith in Dan, sorry.   And I think you miss part of my point which is even if he hires a respected name, ala Scott McCloughan, the dude still got neutered here, he didn't have final say and it was temporary.  John Schneider was here with Marty but they were canned because supposedly Dan wasn't having fun so he brought Cerrato back.

 

As far as defacto GMs the two with longevity were Cerrato and Bruce.  And there is a reason for that. 

Edited February 8, 2022 by Skinsinparadise

[Spaceman Spiff]

17 minutes ago, HigSkin said:

 

This is Wilson's 10th season and the guy is obsessed with Football, the kind of obsession TB12 has.  He wants to play 20 years plus.  You want those guys in your locker room, that proverbial "rising tide lifts all boats".  I think it's hard to imagine having a very talented, fully emersed and driven to football vet and what it can do for a team given we've never had one.

 

https://www.nfl.com/news/seattle-seahawks-qb-russell-wilson-aims-to-play-20-plus-years-then-own-an-nfl-fo

 

"I knew I was wildly crazy about the game, but I'm ridiculously obsessed with it," Wilson said on an upcoming AP Pro Football Podcast, via The Associated Press. "That's why I want to play 20-plus years. I think the other part that you learn about yourself is to have patience. At the same time, you have to have drive. I think that's such a critical part. The third thing is [having] unrelenting confidence. You don't want to mistake that with arrogance. It's strictly confidence in what you do and how you do it and you've done it before, and we'll do it again and with great faith, all things are possible, and that's really what's been very evident to me in my journey."

 

 

 

I wanted to date Cindy Crawford when I was growing up and I was obsessed with her.  Just wasn't in the cards.

 

It's nice to be obsessed with football and to want to play 20 years.  Good for him.  But things don't always work out the way we want them to.  

[HigSkin]

I'll take any odds!  LMAO

 

 

Edited February 8, 2022 by HigSkin

[Voice_of_Reason]

1 minute ago, Skinsinparadise said:

 

If you don't want Wilson, cool.  But I don't get those who say they don't get why anyone would want Wilson. 

 

But to play along. I'll start with he'd be the best Qb we've had by a mile in my lifetime. It would be cool for a change to have a top 10 QB.    Seattle made the playoffs 8 out of his 10 seasons as a starter.  The two he didn't make it was a 9-7 season and last year where he missed a bunch of games and wasn't right.  

 

For me it would be unreal to have a QB like that here.  Be like the class nerd dating the prom queen.

 

 if you don't want Wilson who are you pining for this off season?

Hmmm.  I'm older than you, I think.  Would he be the best QB of my lifetime?  

 

Let's say my football life started when I was 6 in 1982.  So the candidates would be Joey T., Doug Williams, Mark Rypien.  He's better than everything we've had since 1992 by a country mile. 

 

If you take Doug's career as a whole, he got the Bucs to the championship game, and had the most amazing SB performance of all time.  

Joe Thiesman was a heck of a QB for a number of years.  

Mark Rypien had one of the best single seasons you'll ever see.

 

Doug's 'Skins career was REALLY short.  He split time with Shroedder in 1987, was named the starter for the playoffs, and I don't think he lasted the 1988 season because of injury, and y 1989, Rypien was starting games.    

Mark had one good season in 1990, an UNBELIEVABLE season in 1991, and an "ok" season in 1992, and was gone by 1994.  

 

I dunno.  It's a tough call.  It's a different era. I do think if Russ keeps up this level of production, there's no chance he's NOT in the HOF.  Hell, he might already qualify for the HOF right now.  And Doug, Mark and Joe are not in the HOF.  (And shouldn't be.)  So maybe he would be the best QB of my lifetime?  But Joe's 1982/1983 seasons were unbelievable.  And Rypien's 1991 season was unbelievable.  And Doug's SB performance was unbelievable.  

 

I think it would be a tossup between him vs. Joey T.  So far, both played in 2 SBs, and won one of them.  And both had disasterous INTs in the other.  

 

 

[Redskins 2021]

 You would have to take Kingsbury to get Murray. The cards still may figure it out and resign both.

[Skinsinparadise]

4 minutes ago, Spaceman Spiff said:

 

He'd be the best for sure, but my God how starved are we for a star quarterback that we're overlooking his age?  And it's not like Wilson hasn't taken a lot of hits, either. 

 

I said it before, I'll say it again for everyone in the back loud and clear:

 

 

GET THIS MAN.

 

Plus we know he already looks good in bull**** black and red.

 

 

 

They'd be stupid to trade him but whatever.  The dude looks to be unhappy.  

 

 

I hear you, I loved him before the draft.  But outside of him doing his social media thing, there are zero rumors of him being on the trade block unless I missed one.  I think there is a better shot that even Aaron Rodgers could end up here versus Murray.

 

Lets say Murray isnt on the market.  Who then?

[mistertim]

2 minutes ago, Spaceman Spiff said:

 

Kyler Murray.  Said it earlier, ship all the draft picks plus Allen to Arizona.

 

If not, I'd draft two quarterbacks this year and see who rises to the top.  And if no one does and we're picking in the top 10 next year, do it again.

 

I'd be okay with Russell Wilson, but let's keep in mind that McNabb was 34 when we got him and we saw how that worked out.  Now I think Wilson is better than McNabb for sure, but I'm really not interested in a veteran QB on the back half of his career, no matter who he is.  We'll just be here again in a few years looking for a guy that we can have for 10-12 years. 

 

I'm not really interested in a guy who can get us 3-5 years when his best years are already behind him.  

 

Murray is essentially a non-starter. He's messing around trying to get contract extensions. He's not going to suddenly hold out and demand a trade. 

 

So that one is out.

 

What rounds would you draft them in? If 1st and then late round then sure I'd be ok with it. Anything else (like using a 1st and 2nd) is not a great idea because IMO if you draft a QB to be your franchise guy you really should be able to throw your support behind him 100%. 

 

Rookies have enough to deal with in getting used to the speed of the NFL and learning complex NFL offenses and defenses. If you throw on top of that having all of the coaches' focus split between 2 rookies and watching over your shoulder for the other guy then it makes success less likely for both of them.

 

Pick a guy. If he doesn't work out, move on as quickly as reasonably possible and try again. In general I think a 1st round rookie should get 2 seasons before you start to really decide if he could be it or not.

 

Obviously there are exceptions. One would be the Cards for example. Rosen was pretty awful and they also got a completely new coaching staff and he didn't fit with what they wanted to do offensively. They also had the #1 overall pick and Murray was an excellent prospect and fit exactly how they wanted to run things. Another should have been Haskins because his work ethic and attitude was so poor, but unfortunately because of COVID Rivera never really got to see enough before the draft, otherwise we probably would have taken a QB. 

[GilbertSkinsFan]

3 minutes ago, Spaceman Spiff said:

 

He'd be the best for sure, but my God how starved are we for a star quarterback that we're overlooking his age?  And it's not like Wilson hasn't taken a lot of hits, either. 

 

I said it before, I'll say it again for everyone in the back loud and clear:

 

 

GET THIS MAN.

 

Plus we know he already looks good in bull**** black and red.

 

 

 

They'd be stupid to trade him but whatever.  The dude looks to be unhappy.  

NO THANSK!!!!  I'm from Arizona and I believe Murray is the most overrated QB in the league. Starts the season off great until he takes a couple of hits, then is too beat up to be effective.  Has happed every year he has been in the league.  Keep in mine, he gained weight for the combine up to like 208. Wouldn't run.  Weighed 207 at his pro day.  Wouldn't run. Scouts and radio guys were like "see, he did what he needed to get his body ready for the rigors of the NFL.  Then the Cardinals drafted him.  He got to training camp noticeably smaller, at 180.  Said he plays faster at the lower weight.  Its why he wouldn't run at the combine or his pro day. Well at 180, he cannot take a hit.  While he is pretty good at not getting hit, it does not take much to hurt/injure him if when he does get hit.  He either needs to gain the weight back and rely on his arm more.  Or go back to baseball.  

 

On top of all that, he is a HORRIBLE, HORRIBLE leader!  Whines a LOT.  NEVER takes responsibility for anything.  Calls out he WR's for running routes too short, yet it was him that threw the ball into the middle of 4 defenders to get picked off and lose that game.  That is the norm for him.  Call everyone out and pass the blame to them.  NOT A LEADER AT ALL!!  I wouldn't want anything to do with him!!!

10 minutes ago, Spaceman Spiff said:

 

He'd be the best for sure, but my God how starved are we for a star quarterback that we're overlooking his age?  And it's not like Wilson hasn't taken a lot of hits, either. 

 

I said it before, I'll say it again for everyone in the back loud and clear:

 

 

GET THIS MAN.

 

Plus we know he already looks good in bull**** black and red.

 

 

 

They'd be stupid to trade him but whatever.  The dude looks to be unhappy.  

 

The dude is unhappy because he listens to sports talk radio and EVERYONE in AZ is calling him out and blaming the crumbled season on him.  Which they should, as its mainly his fault!

[Skinsinparadise]

8 minutes ago, Voice_of_Reason said:

Hmmm.  I'm older than you, I think.  Would he be the best QB of my lifetime?  

 

Let's say my football life started when I was 6 in 1982.  So the candidates would be Joey T., Doug Williams, Mark Rypien.  He's better than everything we've had since 1992 by a country mile. 

 

We are close in age.  I watched the 80s run as a kid, too.

 

8 minutes ago, Voice_of_Reason said:

 

If you take Doug's career as a whole, he got the Bucs to the championship game, and had the most amazing SB performance of all time.  

 

 

Doug is a legend for what he did in the SB.  Wilson won one, too.  But Doug didn't have much of an overall career here as a starter.

 

8 minutes ago, Voice_of_Reason said:

 

Joe Thiesman was a heck of a QB for a number of years.  

 

 

He would be the best one, but he wasn't Russell Wilson level good.  Theismann would be more Derek Carr.  Different era, granted, career completion percentage 56.7%

 

8 minutes ago, Voice_of_Reason said:

 

Mark Rypien had one of the best single seasons you'll ever see.

 

One year, yep.  RG3 had a magical year, too.  If you talked about either Rypien or RG3 as for example as going to the Pro Football Hall of Fame, the sports writing panel would laugh in their faces about it, it would be comically absurd.  Wilson is a Hall of Fame lock and there is a reason for it. 

 

 

Edited February 8, 2022 by Skinsinparadise

[Voice_of_Reason]

32 minutes ago, mistertim said:

 

Not to go too far off in a tangent but with Dan it seems to be pretty textbook narcissistic personality disorder characteristics (I am not a mental health professional nor do I even play one on TV. Please don't savage me too bad @Jumbo)

 

That's one of the reasons I don't think he'll ever learn that he has no clue what he's doing when it comes to picking QBs or doing anything else football related, no matter how clear it is. He's basically incapable of even realizing that it's possible for him to be wrong about things. And it's always someone else's fault. I'm sure he blames Vinny for a ton of stuff and now blames Allen for a ton of stuff. Sure, they probably have some of the blame but he hired them, he kept them on during years of ineptitude, and he still inserted himself into the decision making process.

 

But back to the topic at hand...I don't think he'll find it too easy this time around. This franchise has consistently gone downhill to the point where we're now near the bottom in attendance, we're plagued by internal scandals, and we're mostly the biggest joke in the NFL. He was insanely lucky to get Rivera here but if he fires him, I don't think he's going to find any decent suitors unless he either trolls the bargain bin of has-beens who are out of the league or gives a shot to a very inexperienced coordinator or college coach.

I don't disagree with this.  I also think his reputation has been tarnished a bit.

 

HOWEVER, the counter point is, all signs indicate he's leaving Ron alone to do Ron's things.  He let Ron hire all of his own guys. Draft who he wants, sign who he wants, and cut who he wants.  So far, he's been a model owner for Ron: supportive, will spend money when asked, and stay out of the way.

 

If that stays the same, and Ron fails because Ron fails, and not because Dan meddled and created that failure, then I think there would be intrigue from coaches.  He could (rightly) say, "look, I just pay the bills.  I gave Ron the keys to the car, and let him drive it.  You'll get the same opportunity, just don't drive the car off the cliff."

 

The question is, will candidates believe him.  

 

He has 2 things going for him:

1. There are only 32 of these jobs.  He controls one of them.  Very few people will turn one down if offered. 

2. It's a big market and it's going to have a nice shiny new stadium here in a few years, with upgraded, best in class facilities.  He can sell to the coach, "look, you make it happen.  If you win, we're going to have an environment people will want to come to."  

 

The other thing he could do is do the Raider's Jon Gruden deal.  100M for 10 years to somebody. Anybody is going to take that and run with it.  

[Voice_of_Reason]

1 minute ago, Skinsinparadise said:

He would be the best one, but he wasn't Russell Wilson level good.  Theismann would be more Derek Carr.  Different era, granted, career completion percentage 56.7%

Oh, I think you're selling Joe short.  It was an entirely different offense, in a different era, and Theismann was the NFL MVP in 1983.  Defenses could mug receivers down the field, he didn't play in the WCO, and most of his pass attempts were deep shots off of the running game.  

 

You're probably right, Russ probably is better, but I dunno, I think it's close. 

 

I mean, if we say Russ would be the best QB of our lifetimes, then he's no worse than the 3rd best QB in franchise history, with Sonny and Sammy Baugh as the other 2 possible candidates.  Take Baugh out of the discussion, the game was entirely different.  

 

Russ would be the best QB since Sonny? Btw, Sonny never won a playoff game....  Does he walk in as the best QB of the SB era in team history?  

[Spaceman Spiff]

6 minutes ago, Skinsinparadise said:

 

I hear you, I loved him before the draft.  But outside of him doing his social media thing, there are zero rumors of him being on the trade block unless I missed one.  I think there is a better shot that even Aaron Rodgers could end up here versus Murray.

 

Lets say Murray isnt on the market.  Who then?

 

3 minutes ago, mistertim said:

 

Murray is essentially a non-starter. He's messing around trying to get contract extensions. He's not going to suddenly hold out and demand a trade. 

 

So that one is out.

 

What rounds would you draft them in? If 1st and then late round then sure I'd be ok with it. Anything else (like using a 1st and 2nd) is not a great idea because IMO if you draft a QB to be your franchise guy you really should be able to throw your support behind him 100%. 

 

Rookies have enough to deal with in getting used to the speed of the NFL and learning complex NFL offenses and defenses. If you throw on top of that having all of the coaches' focus split between 2 rookies and watching over your shoulder for the other guy then it makes success less likely for both of them.

 

Pick a guy. If he doesn't work out, move on as quickly as reasonably possible and try again. In general I think a 1st round rookie should get 2 seasons before you start to really decide if he could be it or not.

 

Obviously there are exceptions. One would be the Cards for example. Rosen was pretty awful and they also got a completely new coaching staff and he didn't fit with what they wanted to do offensively. They also had the #1 overall pick and Murray was an excellent prospect and fit exactly how they wanted to run things. Another should have been Haskins because his work ethic and attitude was so poor, but unfortunately because of COVID Rivera never really got to see enough before the draft, otherwise we probably would have taken a QB. 

 

Jeez, you two are really interested in who I want for a quarterback.

 

Yes, a 1st rounder and a later round, especially if someone slips.  

 

Part of me would also say **** it and get Watson.  I just don't care about our players being good people anymore.  It's a bonus if they are, but I'm over it.  Just win.

[Koolblue13]

I think im in the Mariota or Trubisky and move up in the second for a dropper, be it Howell or Ridder camp right now.

 

Or a 2nd for Jimmy and draft all out in 23.

 

Both moves get us winning this year and plan for the future.

 

I cant get into the cost and age of Wilson.

Edited February 8, 2022 by Koolblue13

[mistertim]

2 minutes ago, Spaceman Spiff said:

 

 

Jeez, you two are really interested in who I want for a quarterback.

 

Yes, a 1st rounder and a later round, especially if someone slips.  

 

Part of me would also say **** it and get Watson.  I just don't care about our players being good people anymore.  It's a bonus if they are, but I'm over it.  Just win.

 

Well I want Patrick Mahomes. But he's not going to be traded so there's no point in me actually considering it as a possibility.

 

Murray isn't going anywhere, so there's no point in really considering it as a possibility.

 

But a 1st rounder and maybe taking a flier on a late round guy is ok with me, though I think we'd probably be better served by picking a position that has a better chance of working out with a mid or late round pick. Usually that's guys like interior OL, etc. Definitely not QBs. And Like I noted, I don't want the coaches' focus split between 2 rookies. We need to be completely in on the guy picked in the 1st.

 

And Watson carries baggage outside of having dozens of sexual harassment/assault cases against him. Namely that even if he doesn't get charged or convicted criminally, he could still very easily be suspended by the NFL for a full season. Even if you don't care about the sexual stuff then that should be a big worry because his court stuff is unlikely to be resolved before trade deadlines IIRC.

[Spaceman Spiff]

1 minute ago, mistertim said:

And Watson carries baggage outside of having dozens of sexual harassment/assault cases against him. Namely that even if he doesn't get charged or convicted criminally, he could still very easily be suspended by the NFL for a full season. Even if you don't care about the sexual stuff then that should be a big worry because his court stuff is unlikely to be resolved before trade deadlines IIRC.

 

Live look at me not caring:

 

 

He's still under 30.  

[Chris 44]

7 minutes ago, Koolblue13 said:

I think im in the Mariota or Trubisky and move up in the second for a dropper, be it Howell or Ridder camp right now.

 

Or a 2nd for Jimmy and draft all out in 23.

 

Both moves get us winning this year and plan for the future.

 

I cant get into the cost and age of Wilson.

Koolblue, your killin me with your avatars! lol

[Califan007 The Constipated]

33 minutes ago, Spaceman Spiff said:

 

I wanted to date Cindy Crawford when I was growing up and I was obsessed with her.  Just wasn't in the cards.

 

It's nice to be obsessed with football and to want to play 20 years.  Good for him.  But things don't always work out the way we want them to.  

 

 

of course the difference being Wilson spent years cultivating his talent and letting his obsession drive him to be his best regardless of his physical limitations and apparently it's still driving him even after his success.

 

I'm guessing you just looked at a poster of Cindy Crawford and said "Man, I would love to date her" lol...(as we all did)

 

 

[mistertim]

4 minutes ago, Spaceman Spiff said:

 

Live look at me not caring:

 

 

He's still under 30.  

 

Yes, it's an outstanding idea to give up 3 1sts + more and a probably a huge new contract extension (he'd almost surely make that part of his agreement to waive his no-trade clause) for a guy who may very well miss at least a season and who still could have legal issues that could potentially land him in prison. So at best, by the time he steps on the field for you in 2023 you'll have no clue if he's still the same player.

[Spaceman Spiff]

5 minutes ago, mistertim said:

 

Yes, it's an outstanding idea to give up 3 1sts + more and a probably a huge new contract extension (he'd almost surely make that part of his agreement to waive his no-trade clause) for a guy who may very well miss at least a season and who still could have legal issues that could potentially land him in prison. So at best, by the time he steps on the field for you in 2023 you'll have no clue if he's still the same player.

 

Hey, less wear and tear on him than Russell Wilson.  But let's focus on the negatives. 

[mistertim]

4 minutes ago, Spaceman Spiff said:

 

Hey, less wear and tear on him than Russell Wilson.  But let's focus on the negatives. 

 

Um, yes. Because the negatives in this case are potentially enormous. 

 

Could go to prison

Seems to be a potential serial sexual harasser/abuser...which would fit great in an organization that's literally going through scandals for that as we speak.

Could be suspended for at least a season, and you probably wouldn't know that until after you've traded for him.

Would likely cost an absolutely enormous new contract.

If he's suspended, by the time he actually steps on the field for you he wouldn't have taken a snap in the NFL for 2 years.

 

But on the plus side...he's younger. And...well, that's about it. He's not really better than Wilson overall.

Edited February 8, 2022 by mistertim

[HigSkin]

I'm all in on the possibility of Wilson but wonder if Baker could be a sleeper option?  I'm not a big Baker fan but Browns have pick #13.  

 

It's either Brown's doing due diligence or there's something to it given how the year ended with Baker.  

 

 

[Califan007 The Constipated]

18 minutes ago, mistertim said:

 

Yes, it's an outstanding idea to give up 3 1sts + more and a probably a huge new contract extension (he'd almost surely make that part of his agreement to waive his no-trade clause) for a guy who may very well miss at least a season and who still could have legal issues that could potentially land him in prison. So at best, by the time he steps on the field for you in 2023 you'll have no clue if he's still the same player.

 

Oh yeah, well tell that to Reuben Foster because ohhhhhh.....

 

 

 

 

 

[Redskins 2021]

1 minute ago, HigSkin said:

I'm all in on the possibility of Wilson but wonder if Baker could be a sleeper option?  I'm not a big Baker fan but Browns have pick #13.  

 

It's either Brown's doing due diligence or there's something to it given how the year ended with Baker.  

 

 

I saw a possible trade of Kurt Cousins for Baker Mayfield 

[mistertim]

17 minutes ago, HigSkin said:

I'm all in on the possibility of Wilson but wonder if Baker could be a sleeper option?  I'm not a big Baker fan but Browns have pick #13.  

 

It's either Brown's doing due diligence or there's something to it given how the year ended with Baker.  

 

 

 

Eh, I wouldn't look into it too much. Most teams meet with tons of prospects, including QBs even if they don't necessarily have a glaring need. I wouldn't be against Mayfield if that's what we could get but I don't know if I'd give up a 1st for him. He hasn't really proven himself thus far to be worth his high pick. Some of that certainly may be due to circumstances, but it doesn't change the fact that he's been very on and off.

[Redskins 2021]

There are other QB that probably could be had. I don't know what they would cost.

 

B. Mayfield 

C. Wentz 

 

 

 

 

Edited February 8, 2022 by Redskins 2021