The Official QB Thread- JD5 taken #2. Randall 2.0 or Bayou Bob? Mariotta and Hartman forever. Fromm cut

[KDawg]

Just now, cakmoney61 said:

Jimmy G has zero to do with SF's success.  He is simply a placeholder.  He is a below average starting QB.  He doesn't contribute to SF winning games.  He spends his time almost losing them.  He is not clutch at all.  Washington really needs a viable QB.  Bringing Jimmy G here, using draft picks then paying him $20M+ would be like spitting in the face of this fan base. 

 

WFT, don't do it!

 

He's better than Heinicke is all ANYONE is saying.

 

Beyond that... SF's record with Jimmy G: 24-9 heading into 2021's season.

Without? 5-23.

 

He's not great, he's not good. But they win. Too many discount that.

 

He's not even their ideal QB, though. That much is true. But he wins... FOR THEM. 

[Est.1974]

I’d be more open minded to Jimmy G as a short term solution if he was being paid contractually like Fitz and not like Matthew Stafford as he currently is. 
 

20mil for one season of potential incremental improvement would be desperation at its worst. If Ron and his vastly experienced band of associates take us down that route I’d be very alarmed. 

[cakmoney61]

2 minutes ago, KDawg said:

 

He's better than Heinicke is all ANYONE is saying.

 

Beyond that... SF's record with Jimmy G: 24-9 heading into 2021's season.

Without? 5-23.

 

He's not great, he's not good. But they win. Too many discount that.

 

He's not even their ideal QB, though. That much is true. But he wins... FOR THEM. 

He's is Washington's version of Alex Smith who somehow had a winning record although he literally had nothing to do with any of the wins.  All I mostly saw from Smith were plays missed that would have been made by a better QB.

 

Players like Jimmy G and Alex Smith are more like good luck charms than they are tangible contributors to offensive success.  At this time, I am a hard "no!" on giving up draft picks and money for Jimmy G.  For now, too many other options are available including the draft.

[skins4ever28]

Carr sucks

we should just go all in on Watson if his charges get cleared. Otherwise take a shot In The draft 

[KDawg]

4 minutes ago, cakmoney61 said:

He's is Washington's version of Alex Smith who somehow had a winning record although he literally had nothing to do with any of the wins.  All I mostly saw from Smith were plays missed that would have been made by a better QB.

 

Players like Jimmy G and Alex Smith are more like good luck charms than they are tangible contributors to offensive success.  At this time, I am a hard "no!" on giving up draft picks and money for Jimmy G.  For now, too many other options are available including the draft.

 

Again, it's levels.

 

I'm a hard, "not as a primary option", on Jimmy G.

 

Options off the top of my head that are better:

 

Carr, Fields, Rodgers, Wilson, Howell, Corral, Willis

 

Options that are comparable due to cost:talent ratio:

 

Trubisky, Mariota, Bridgewater

 

Having a QB that brings respect to the franchise is a must do. If we fail at the top end we CANNOT go into next season with heinicke. That is a kiss of death for player acquisition, coaching staff, front office. 

 

Alot of the better options may not even be available: Carr, Rodgers, Wilson, Fields aren't guarantees to be on the block. Jimmy G may not even be available. 

 

 

Edited January 24, 2022 by KDawg

[BatteredFanSyndrome]

What's odd is how much people hate on Jimmy G, yet we regularly have fans that not only think we can win the same way the 49ers have, but prefer it.  Although, I think a large portion of those folks tend to believe that we can get the same output from Heineke as Jimmy G, of which I completely disagree.  

[cakmoney61]

2 minutes ago, KDawg said:

 

Again, it's levels.

 

I'm a hard, "not as a primary option", on Jimmy G.

 

Options off the top of my head that are better:

 

Carr, Fields, Rodgers, Wilson, Wilson, Howell, Corral, Willis

 

Options that are comparable due to cost:talent ratio:

 

Trubisky, Mariota, Bridgewater

 

Having a QB that brings respect to the franchise is a must do. If we fail at the top end we CANNOT go into next season with heinicke. That is a kiss of death for player acquisition, coaching staff, front office. 

 

 

I 100% agree that we cannot go into next season with Heinicke as the starter. 😬  Yet, I feel the same about Jimmy G. 

 

Personally, he doesn't inspire one ounce of hope.  Isn't the price SF paid last year to move up to get what they hope is their franchise QB to replace Jimmy G Exhibit A to the fact that Jimmy G is not "that" guy but just "a" guy.

[wit33]

2 hours ago, KDawg said:

For all the new Willis fans:

 

Keep in mind he’s a lot smaller than Josh Allen and doesn’t have the same pocket awareness. He’s also faster. 
 

I’m not against him but if you are thinking Willis = Allen I’d pull back a touch. He’s probably the closest thing, though.

He’s smaller from a height standpoint, but he’s built and moves like Deebo Samuel.  
 

Disclaimer, I know nothing about Willis other than the 11 minutes of highlights I’ve watched. He’d need to be a dude who’s maniacal about the game of football to make the needed improvements. All about ceiling for me with a rookie though. Average to above QBs can be had in free agency or trades. 

 

2 minutes ago, cakmoney61 said:

I 100% agree that we cannot go into next season with Heinicke as the starter. 😬  Yet, I feel the same about Jimmy G. 

 

Personally, he doesn't inspire one ounce of hope.  Isn't the price SF paid last year to move up to get what they hope is their franchise QB to replace Jimmy G Exhibit A to the fact that Jimmy G is not "that" guy but just "a" guy.

 

No. The dude is starting another NFC championship game. He has one of the quickest releases in the NFL and is professional at the spot. With that said, I like a QB with a bit more athleticism, so no go for me. 
 

The Niners were proven wrong with the move to Kaepernick over Smith from a long term view, maybe history repeats itself with Jimmy G and Lance. 

[KDawg]

Just now, wit33 said:

He’s smaller from a height standpoint, but he’s built and moves like Deebo Samuel.  
 

Disclaimer, I know nothing about Willis other than the 11 minutes of highlights I’ve watched. He’d need to be a dude who’s maniacal about the game of football to make the needed improvements. All about ceiling for me with a rookie though. Average to above QBs can be had in free agency or trades. 

 

He's 210ish pounds, too. So smaller in weight.

 

A QB built like Deebo isn't a great thing. Quarterbacks take a lot of hits. Have to be sturdy and durable. I'm not saying Willis is or isn't. But being built like Samuel doesn't mean much. He's NOT built like Allen, which was my point. 

[cakmoney61]

22 hours ago, Koolblue13 said:

Does it worry you that the 2 of us seem to be in exactly the same place for QB this year? 

 

The year that nobody can agree on anything, we're step for step.

It worries me.  And it's quite disturbing, because I love and respect your and KDawg's takes immensely.  I feel like I'm disagreeing with two great sages.😨  But Jimmy G moves me to rise up and say "DON'T DO IT!!!!!!"  He really makes me feel some type of way.  And that is sick to my stomach.🤢🤮

[wit33]

5 minutes ago, KDawg said:

 

He's 210ish pounds, too. So smaller in weight.

 

A QB built like Deebo isn't a great thing. Quarterbacks take a lot of hits. Have to be sturdy and durable. I'm not saying Willis is or isn't. But being built like Samuel doesn't mean much. He's NOT built like Allen, which was my point. 

Willis is listed at 225 pounds and 6’1. Josh Allen is 237 at 6’5. 
 

Willis is built like a RB, his size is a huge plus going to the next level when taking into account he’ll be doing a lot of running early on. 

Edited January 24, 2022 by wit33

[Llevron]

26 minutes ago, cakmoney61 said:

He's is Washington's version of Alex Smith who somehow had a winning record although he literally had nothing to do with any of the wins.

 

That word....I don't think it means what you think it does. 

 

I do think he reminds me of Alex Smith in a way though. The same way Alex was dismissed as not a part of the formula when you could literally watch the team win with him in the line up and then lose without him, and then win with him again, and some people still think he had "literally" nothing to do with it. Its funny how reality hits (or doesn't) sometimes. 

 

I'm not a Jimmy G fan. I'm also not one to dismiss reality....so.... ya know. 

 

[KDawg]

Just now, wit33 said:

Willis is listed at 225 pounds at 6’1. Josh Allen is 237 at 6’5. 
 

Willis is built like a RB, his size is a huge plus going to the next level when taking into account he’ll be doing a lot of running early on. 

 

Depends on the website for Willis. He's also listed at 210 and 215 on other sites. Senior Bowl will be the accurate measurement. 

2 minutes ago, cakmoney61 said:

It worries me.  And it's quite disturbing, because I love and respect your and KDawg's takes immensely.  I feel like I'm disagreeing with two great sages.😨  But Jimmy G moves me to rise up and say "DON'T DO IT!!!!!!"  He really makes me feel some type of way.  And that is sick to my stomach.🤢🤮

 

Except neither of us want Jimmy. He's just a fall back. 

[Koolblue13]

47 minutes ago, cakmoney61 said:

He's is Washington's version of Alex Smith who somehow had a winning record although he literally had nothing to do with any of the wins.  All I mostly saw from Smith were plays missed that would have been made by a better QB.

 

Players like Jimmy G and Alex Smith are more like good luck charms than they are tangible contributors to offensive success.  At this time, I am a hard "no!" on giving up draft picks and money for Jimmy G.  For now, too many other options are available including the draft.

We should just go sign an elite QB. Why haven't we done that yet? I'm sure it's always easy to do and they're just sitting around.

[wit33]

 

16 minutes ago, KDawg said:

 

Depends on the website for Willis. He's also listed at 210 and 215 on other sites. Senior Bowl will be the accurate measurement. 

 

Except neither of us want Jimmy. He's just a fall back. 

 

Whatever it counts for, from the naked eye he looks well put together, like a RB. 

[KDawg]

1 minute ago, wit33 said:

 

 

Whatever it counts for, from the naked eye he looks well put together, like a RB. 

 

Yup. Agree. My concerns with him is that he struggles with reads and holding the ball already, his height makes that more difficult because its harder to see receiver/easier to get balls batted. But if he balls out the height issue is a non-issue.

[Chump Bailey]

Looking forward to that Rams and 49ers game. I'm sure all of us will be watching Jimmy G intently. 

 

[wit33]

Just now, KDawg said:

 

Yup. Agree. My concerns with him is that he struggles with reads and holding the ball already, his height makes that more difficult because its harder to see receiver/easier to get balls batted. But if he balls out the height issue is a non-issue.

For sure, my knowledge for most part begins and ends with his highlights, but look forward to digging in a bit more on him as we approach the draft. 
 

Ive actually grown to appreciate height in a QB a bit more, especially if it’s a guy with average athleticism at the QB spot. It’s factoring in my position on guys Howell and Corral— dudes with adequate athleticism, but nothing special and they’re small guys. If Washington goes that route, I’d like to have a big dude in there. 

[Warhead36]

Garopolo is a good QB. He's just injury prone. A healthy Garopolo is firmly in that 2nd tier of QBs with guys like Carr, Cousins, Tannehill etc. 

 

You can win with 2nd tier QBs, but they aren't typically needle movers. 

[mistertim]

46 minutes ago, BatteredFanSyndrome said:

What's odd is how much people hate on Jimmy G, yet we regularly have fans that not only think we can win the same way the 49ers have, but prefer it.  Although, I think a large portion of those folks tend to believe that we can get the same output from Heineke as Jimmy G, of which I completely disagree.  

 

I've said multiple times that I think Jimmy G is an upgrade over Heinicke, though only a slight one. As far as output...Jimmy G and Heinicke had very similar output this season, and Jimmy G definitely has better weapons than Heinicke did.

 

This isn't me saying Heinicke is good...just that Jimmy G isn't all that much better.

 

35 minutes ago, wit33 said:

No. The dude is starting another NFC championship game. He has one of the quickest releases in the NFL and is professional at the spot. With that said, I like a QB with a bit more athleticism, so no go for me. 
 

The Niners were proven wrong with the move to Kaepernick over Smith from a long term view, maybe history repeats itself with Jimmy G and Lance. 

 

The dude is starting in an NFC championship game that he had nothing to do with getting to. He was more of a hindrance to their win than a reason for it, as he almost gave it away with a terrible pick in the red zone. It was pretty much the same story with their SB run before. Through that run Jimmy G had a whopping 2 TDs and 3 INTs. He looked mediocre at best and more often than not was a hindrance than a reason for them winning.

 

SF clearly realizes that he's not that good, even though he's been in a SB with them. Otherwise they wouldn't have given up 3 1st round picks for Lance while they had him on the roster.

 

Jimmy G is a complete JAG who rides on the coattails of dominant defenses and great supporting casts. I'd take him for a 3rd but nothing higher. A 1st for him is absolutely laughable to me. Hard pass. Adamantium hard pass.

[MrJL]

2 hours ago, Burgold said:

 

Personally, I'm assuming that Jimmy G won't come cheap. He will cost at minimum a first because even if the 49ers want Lance to start, Lance is on that rookie contract and Jimmy's salary only saddles them with one "starting QB" salary. At worst, they keep Garoffolo to be an expensive back up who has already proven himself good enough to get the 49ers deep into the playoffs two of the last three years. Why would y a team give that away on the cheap? Because Kyle Shannahan likes Dan Snyder and wants to do him a favor?

 

I suppose Marriota or Tribusky might be had for cheap, but even cheap is expensive. Second rounders should be starters.

 

 

 

second round QBs are rarely starters.  And part of why they might trade Jimmy G is they gave up their first rounders for the next two years to get Trey Lance, they didn't just draft him with their pick.  Trading Jimmy gets them some of that draft capital back and clears cap space

[KDawg]

2 minutes ago, mistertim said:

 

I've said multiple times that I think Jimmy G is an upgrade over Heinicke, though only a slight one. As far as output...Jimmy G and Heinicke had very similar output this season, and Jimmy G definitely has better weapons than Heinicke did.

 

This isn't me saying Heinicke is good...just that Jimmy G isn't all that much better.

 

 

The dude is starting in an NFC championship game that he had nothing to do with getting to. He was more of a hindrance to their win than a reason for it, as he almost gave it away with a terrible pick in the red zone. It was pretty much the same story with their SB run before. Through that run Jimmy G had a whopping 2 TDs and 3 INTs. He looked mediocre at best and more often than not was a hindrance than a reason for them winning.

 

SF clearly realizes that he's not that good, even though he's been in a SB with them. Otherwise they wouldn't have given up 3 1st round picks for Lance while they had him on the roster.

 

Jimmy G is a complete JAG who rides on the coattails of dominant defenses and great supporting casts. I'd take him for a 3rd but nothing higher. A 1st for him is absolutely laughable to me. Hard pass. Adamantium hard pass.

 

Their record with and without him says that even if a JAG, the other JAGs cant do what he has.

[BatteredFanSyndrome]

Just now, mistertim said:

I've said multiple times that I think Jimmy G is an upgrade over Heinicke, though only a slight one. As far as output...Jimmy G and Heinicke had very similar output this season, and Jimmy G definitely has better weapons than Heinicke did.

 

This isn't me saying Heinicke is good...just that Jimmy G isn't all that much better.

I'm not a Jimmy G guy.  I'll be incredibly disappointed if we trade assets and pay him and he ends up starting for us.

 

While output may be similar, I'm taking Jimmy G 100 times out of 100 over Heineke.  I will say, Jimmy definitely had a few Heineke like throws in the last game where he was backfooting it and the ball was hanging in the air for an eternity.  But overall, he gives you a better chance to win games than Taylor Heineke every week.

[Warhead36]

One thing to note: there is going to be a massive power vacuum in the NFC because there really is no top notch young up and coming QB in the conference. MAYBE Kyler Murray but he's still not quite there yet. You look at the AFC you got: Mahomes, Allen, Burrow, Jackson, Herbert etc. Its gonna be a bloodbath. But the NFC? If someone gets a guy, they can run it for the next decade.

 

If we can get that guy, we can be that team that just dominates. But of course, all the other teams are thinking the same thing.

[Est.1974]

3 minutes ago, KDawg said:

 

Their record with and without him says that even if a JAG, the other JAGs cant do what he has.

He’s certainly better than Hoyer, Beathard and Mullins in that respect.