The Official QB Thread- JD5 taken #2. Randall 2.0 or Bayou Bob? Mariotta and Hartman forever. Fromm cut

[Chump Bailey]

7 minutes ago, clskinsfan said:

Daniels doesnt have a better arm than Lamar. Not sure where this is coming from all of the sudden. He is a more polished passer than Lamar was coming out. But Lamar has a far stronger arm than Daniels. 

 

I concur. I do think Penix's arm is being sold a little short though. The dude's arm is legit.

[Dah-Dee]

 

 

 

 

 

[The Consigliere]

4 minutes ago, Warhead36 said:

The Lamar comparisons are terrible. Lamar won a league MVP at the same age Daniels will be in his rookie year. Lamar played for a mediocre at best college program with very little to no talent around him and won a Heisman at age 20. Lamar is way more elusive with way more wiggle and is more explosive as a runner with crazy good spatial awareness and instincts(so he doesn't get trucked as often). They aren't remotely close as prospects.

The league didn't view Lamar as a thrower in the same vein it views Daniels as a thrower. Maybe that's age, maybe that's prejudice against dual threat QB's, or even race, I don't know, I agree w/you though, Lamar was in contention to go 1.01 during the '16 season and summer of '17, and a slightly lesser 17 is what dropped him in mocks along with the generalized, NFL GM's systemic stupidity and RGIII redux paranoia. 

Edited April 22 by The Consigliere

[clskinsfan]

Talk about all in. And I thought people here were risky:

 

 

[The Consigliere]

5 minutes ago, Chump Bailey said:

 

I concur. I do think Penix's arm is being sold a little short though. The dude's arm is legit.

I think Penix and Rattler have a real good chance (especially if the former stays health) at making 2-3 of these selections up top look incredibly stupid 2-3 years from now, hell maybe even next year. Otoh, I don't think Rattler has a chance to win a job in '24 unless the starter in front of him gets a season ending injury and maybe not even then. Just to cover all my bases with malleableness, if Nix drops as far as it sounds, that could be stupid as well. 

 

All of this for me, is about the risk I see with Daniels and JJ, I don't see a lot of long term risk with Maye or Caleb, but with JJ and Daniels practically anything could happen. Penix seems just solid as they come, Nix and Rattler both seem like values considering how far Nix fell, and where Rattler was 3 or 4 years ago (granted he's climbed up multiple rounds the last 6 months). 

Edited April 22 by The Consigliere

[clskinsfan]

Just now, The Consigliere said:

I think Penix and Rattler have a real good chance (especially if the former stays health) at making 2-3 of these selections up top look incredibly stupid 2-3 years from now, hell maybe even next year. Otoh, I don't think Rattler has a chance to win a job in '24 unless the starter in front of him gets a season ending injury and maybe not even then. 

I would include Nix in that as well. That guy is way underrated. And I think one of Nix or Penix end up under Payton. Say what you want about the guy being a douche. He knows how to develop and get the most out of QB's.

[mistertim]

3 minutes ago, clskinsfan said:

Talk about all in. And I thought people here were risky:

 

 

 

I mean, there are plenty of people on Twitter who are saying they're 100% positive it will be Daniels. Why not someone for Maye?

[FootballZombie]

I feel bad for whoever is slated to go to New England.

 

If anybody needs to "pull an Eli" it is whatever QB is on the board at pick #3. Almost throwing your career away. They have nothing to support a QB with.

[CommanderInTheRye]

Giants top 30 list includes 6 quarterbacks. That’s more than due diligence. That’s evidence of intent.

 

I think they are done with the Daniel Jones experiment, and are preparing to take a qb either at 6 or at 3 with a trade up to New England’s spot.

 

With a trade, they’ll get their choice of the qbs we don’t take— either Maye, Daniels, or McCarthy.

 

So next year we might very well have a battle with the Giants for best rookie qb in the division, if not the conference.

 

May Adam Peters make the correct call.

 

 

 

 

 

 

bb

Edited April 22 by CommanderInTheRye

[Chump Bailey]

4 minutes ago, The Consigliere said:

I don't think Rattler

 

I keep sleeping on Rattler - mistake. I like him but he needs to rein in the 50/50 balls he attempts. 

[TurningTheCorner]

10 minutes ago, Warhead36 said:

The Lamar comparisons are terrible. Lamar won a league MVP at the same age Daniels will be in his rookie year. Lamar played for a mediocre at best college program with very little to no talent around him and won a Heisman at age 20. Lamar is way more elusive with way more wiggle and is more explosive as a runner with crazy good spatial awareness and instincts(so he doesn't get trucked as often). They aren't remotely close as prospects.

Lamar went 32 and was asked by teams to switch to WR. Even if Daniels doesn’t go to us, he is universally regarded as a top 3 pick in a abnormally strong QB draft. Lamar was not that as a prospect and there’s a reason for that. 

[Rufus T Firefly]

1 hour ago, clskinsfan said:

I am at work right now. Its not going so well.

You guys didn't have a surgery that required a few weeks off of work?

 

Edited April 22 by Rufus T Firefly

[The Consigliere]

1 minute ago, FootballZombie said:

I feel bad for whoever is slated to go to New England.

 

If anybody needs to "pull an Eli" it is whatever QB is on the board at pick #3. Almost throwing your career away. They have nothing to support a QB with.

Yep, if we do what I want and take Maye and Daniels goes there, I'll be working overtime reminding myself that if Daniels struggles there, well, anyone would. It's a terrible landing spot for any QB. Defensive Coach, no offensive speed other than Antonio Gibson, no talent at WR, run and fall down TE's, even the OL wasn't what it once was. Decades of bad drafting and no more Tom Brady took them to this terrible point. It will take multiple years to fix it, and unlike us, they don't have anything that can even give a false sense of competence. I mean, we still have McLaurin, Dotson was solid if disappointing, we have decent if unathletic RB room beyond the aging out Ekeler. They've got a similar guy to Robinson in their RB room and nothing else to speak of. It's just god awful. 

[Warhead36]

2 minutes ago, TurningTheCorner said:

Lamar went 32 and was asked by teams to switch to WR. Even if Daniels doesn’t go to us, he is universally regarded as a top 3 pick in a abnormally strong QB draft. Lamar was not that as a prospect and there’s a reason for that. 

The league effed up. As it always does with high upside but mechanically unsound QBs. Because coaches are scared to do their jobs and actually coach up young players.

[clskinsfan]

 

[srtman04]

15 minutes ago, Chump Bailey said:

 

I concur. I do think Penix's arm is being sold a little short though. The dude's arm is legit.

 

Nah, no one has doubted Penix has a rocket arm....he clearly does.  People are scared of the injury risk in the NFL.  

[Dah-Dee]

https://www.espn.com/nfl/draft2024/insider/story/_/id/39983768/2024-nfl-mock-draft-jordan-reid-seven-rounds-257-picks-predictions-final

 

2024 NFL mock draft: Reid predicts seven rounds, 257 picks

1. Chicago Bears (via CAR)

Caleb Williams, QB, USC

The presumed No. 1 pick, Williams would enter a favorable situation for a rookie QB. Chicago has a solid pass-catching trio in DJ Moore, Cole Kmet and Keenan Allen, and the offensive line has two reliable tackles in Darnell Wright and Braxton Jones. Williams displays all the traits you want in a franchise quarterback, and he truly excels outside of structure -- he had a 31-to-4 touchdown-to-interception ratio outside the pocket over three years in college. Easy pick.

 

2. Washington Commanders

Jayden Daniels, QB, LSU

This pick will likely come down to Daniels and UNC's Drake Maye. But considering the Commanders' veteran additions this offseason, they seem to believe they can win right now while still establishing a foundation for the future. Daniels is the guy who gives them the best chance for early success, showing excellent deep-ball passing and rushing ability. He averaged 11.7 yards per pass attempt last season and threw 40 TDs.

 

3. New England Patriots

Drake Maye, QB, North Carolina

The Patriots are likely to receive calls from multiple QB-needy teams that are outside the top five, but they should stay put and pick their next franchise QB here. With Jacoby Brissett already on the roster, this would be an ideal landing spot for Maye. The Patriots could be patient and let him develop as they continue to build up the offense. Maye's tools are intriguing, and he's my QB2 in this class, but his footwork and decision-making will need to improve.

 

Projected trade: Vikings move up for a QB

Vikings get: No. 8
Falcons get: Nos. 11, 108 and 129

Minnesota doesn't have to move into the top five for a QB here, based on how the board is falling, but it might not want to risk waiting any longer. I've heard Atlanta is interested in moving back from No. 8, so this fits from both sides.

8. Minnesota Vikings (via mock trade with ATL)

J.J. McCarthy, QB, Michigan

 

McCarthy is a great fit with the Vikings considering his skill set -- he's accurate and mobile -- and the infrastructure in place in Minnesota. The Vikings have Sam Darnold, so there's no pressure to start a rookie QB in Week 1. McCarthy's 88.2 QBR was third in the nation last season, and he has a ton of upside -- he just might need some time to adjust to the pro game.

 

22. Denver Broncos (via mock trade with PHI)

Bo Nix, QB, Oregon

 

The correlation between Nix's skill set and that of QBs who have played under Denver coach Sean Payton is impossible to ignore. Nix is accurate, poised and decisive -- all traits Payton covets. I would be shocked if Denver enters next season with just Jarrett Stidham and Ben DiNucci at the position, and it's clear neither is the long-term answer under center. After the trade back, this a more reasonable range for Nix, and it's a big win for the Broncos. They can land a great scheme fit at QB and add a pick in Round 2, where they currently don't have any selections.

 

44. Las Vegas Raiders

Michael Penix Jr., QB, Washington

 

This makes too much sense. Neither Aidan O'Connell nor Gardner Minshew are the Raiders' long-term answer at quarterback, and Penix could even find himself starting at some point during his rookie season. He isn't the most mobile QB prospect, but his deep ball is fantastic. Las Vegas passers had 18 interceptions (tied for fifth worst), completed 62.5% of passes (eighth worst) and averaged 6.6 yards per attempt (tied for seventh worst) last season.

 

Edited April 22 by Dah-Dee

[zCommander]

Cool another mock but no real intel inside of Peters head 🙄 

[TurningTheCorner]

4 minutes ago, Warhead36 said:

The league effed up. As it always does with high upside but mechanically unsound QBs. Because coaches are scared to do their jobs and actually coach up young players.

I’m not insinuating they got it right. But speaking purely as prospects, 31 teams passed on Lamar Jackson. That’s not going to happen to Daniels on Thursday so it’s a bit hyperbolic to say Daniels can’t touch Lamar as a prospect. Daniels is a far more sophisticated pocket passer than Lamar coming out and it’s not even close. 

[clskinsfan]

LMAO! Probably as accurate as anyone else. 

 

 

[Chump Bailey]

6 minutes ago, srtman04 said:

 

Nah, no one has doubted Penix has a rocket arm....he clearly does.  People are scared of the injury risk in the NFL.  

 

He passed the medicals with flying colors from what I can determine. 

[Skinsinparadise]

9 minutes ago, clskinsfan said:

 

 

I was watching a lot of Penix yesterday because I was watching his two tight ends.  Wow is that dude's accuracy wild from one game to the next.   I knew that before hand but it really brought it home tracking the throws to his TEs.

 

 

[The Consigliere]

2 minutes ago, TurningTheCorner said:

Lamar went 32 and was asked by teams to switch to WR. Even if Daniels doesn’t go to us, he is universally regarded as a top 3 pick in a abnormally strong QB draft. Lamar was not that as a prospect and there’s a reason for that. 

He was projected to go inside the top 5 before his final season. 

Lamar was 27th in QBR as an 18 year old. I don't think you want to be reminded what Daniels was.

Lamar was 4th in QBR as a 19 year old.

Lamar was 4th in QBR as a 20 year old.

 

The reason for why he dropped eludes me. I had thought he'd fallen off his final year, but now looking at the #'s, he did not (though the traditional rating system shows him dropping from 148 to 146 from '16 to '17).

 

Daniels simply wasn't in his universe as a prospect except in terms of accuracy which of course matters but even there, Daniels in complete college seasons in '19, and '21 and '22 was nowhere remotely close to Lamar. Lamar was uniformly far better with far less talent, at a far younger age: see Daniels QBR with better talent at age 18 was 55th compared to Lamar at 27th, Lamar at 19 and 20 finished 4th both seasons, compare that to Daniels at age 20 and 21 finishing 41st and 18th.  I think the reasons Lamar didn't go high in '18 are probably connected to accuracy (#'s were low for a modern QB), connected to RGIII paranoia, and the reality that since RGIII, only Wilson had thrived as a dual threat QB, we only see the league fall in love with dual threat guys after Mahomes, Josh Allen and Lamar all do what they did in '18, and then are followed by Kyler succeeding as well in '19...you get Danny Nickels in the same class in '19, then more dual threat attraction in '21, and '23. The WR nonsense also makes me wonder about lingering racial stupidity as they did the same thing w/Terrell Pryor, and let Wilson fall behind guys like Brock Lobster, Foles, Weeden etc....I don't know if its race, or just the lack of hit rates with dual threat guys unless they were God Mode Vick etc. Not sure what it was, but the NFL clearly was clueless with him, and there was little justifiable reason other than the lack of successful comps at the time, and perhaps that his accuracy wasn't ideal (but again, Josh Allen's accuracy was far worse and in a much worse conference so that doesn't pass the smell test).

 

Daniels profile as a prospect is worse, period, than Lamar's, I think the key component in why Daniels is going where he'll go is in the trailblazing that was done by Mahomes, Allen, Lamar, and Kyler a half decade ago, otherwise, Daniels is probably projected exactly where he was throughout '21-'23 (until say October of last fall), late day 2 to day 3. 

[CommanderInTheRye]

Here’s the truncated version of last night’s Nightcap episode.

 

They edit out all the fluff and solely focuses on their interview with Daniels.

 

For those who haven’t watched it already, or want to see it again…

 

 

 

 

[The Consigliere]

7 minutes ago, Chump Bailey said:

 

He passed the medicals with flying colors from what I can determine. 

The problem with that is that it just means he's healthy now. He could not stay on the field for years and years and years. What were his healthy seasons since 2018? 2022 and 2023? Nothing illustrates recency bias more brightly than that. And I really like Penix and view him as the value of the draft (especially if he goes in the mid to late 1st). The fact that he could go top 10-12 is kinda crazy to me considering his age and his issues with health 2018-2021 or thereabouts. It's ridiculous, and again, I like him, but you can't take an injury profile/age combo like that in the top half of round 1 w/o deserving to get fired. I expected him to go late first to day 2, top 10-12 is flat out crazy, and it has zilch to do w/his talent (which I believe in).