The Official QB Thread- JD5 taken #2. Randall 2.0 or Bayou Bob? Mariotta and Hartman forever. Fromm cut

[DogofWar1]

1 hour ago, Jumbo said:

 

One camp is not smart and the other dumb. One camp isn't on point and the other clueless. 

 

Tell that to my Smartness degree from Dunning-Kruger academy.

[alaroche04]

1 hour ago, Dah-Dee said:

New article from Yahoo (referencing a podcast with PFF analyst Steve Palazzolo) that confirms/reinforces a lot of the good things we've discussed about Maye:

 

https://sports.yahoo.com/drake-maye-could-among-best-143501748.html

 

Drake Maye could be among best QB prospects ‘ever' in one key area

Darren Hartwell

Wed, Apr 3, 2024, 10:35 AM EDT

 

[excerpt]

 

“I think Drake Maye is one of the best middle-of-the-field throwers I’ve ever seen in college football. As far as the feel (of) throwing a seam route, throwing the ball around defenders, throwing with touch, layering it — the middle of the field is outstanding. I think he’s got to work outside the numbers a little bit better. That’s my my quick take on Drake.”

 

That’s a bold take from Palazzolo, but the numbers back him up: Maye had an insane 99.9 PFF grade (out of 100) on “deep center” passes in 2023 and a lofty 89.2 grade on “deep intermediate” passes. His passer rating was well over 100 on all throws in the middle of the field beyond the line of scrimmage, as illustrated in the PFF passing chart below.

 

 

Maye’s excellence in the middle of the field stems not just from his incredibly strong arm, but also his ability to vary his throwing speeds, as NFL.com’s Cynthia Frelund explained to Perry on a recent episode of Next Pats.

 

“That translates well because you have to adjust to the game speed of the NFL, and you’re not necessarily going to be throwing bombs down the field,” Frelund explained. “You need to also adjust your speeds for intermediate throws, which is where Drake Maye really excels, and also shorter throws, which do actually matter.”

but but but Maye is inaccurate.  That's what the Daniels fanboys have been telling me.

[Warhead36]

3 minutes ago, CapsSkins said:

lol this “letter” is a puff piece prob designed by his agents and ghostwritten like all those Athletic pieces are. It’s propaganda.

 

Not to say it’s totally inaccurate, but let’s not pretend he organically decided hey I feel emotionally compelled to pen my thoughts as I go thru this process. It’s all sausage-making

Yeah I will say the timing of this letter is kinda strange.

[Going Commando]

1 hour ago, zCommander said:

 

The Bills put together a playoff roster in his 3rd year at the helm. What has Allen has done even with a playoff roster around him? He is not an elite QB. 

 

Oh boy.  You don't get to make QB takes any more.

[Warhead36]

1 minute ago, alaroche04 said:

but but but Maye is inaccurate.  That's what the Daniels fanboys have been telling me.

Yeah its a weird argument. He's generally very accurate, but occasionally has moments where he completely misses a guy. But its not like he regularly misses passes. He just has the occasional Donovan McNabb dirtball.

[mistertim]

Just now, Warhead36 said:

Yeah its a weird argument. He's generally very accurate, but occasionally has moments where he completely misses a guy. But its not like he regularly misses passes. He just has the occasional Donovan McNabb dirtball.

 

Agreed. I think Maye's "inaccuracy" gets overblown because he'll miss so big at times and on short/simple throws. So people focus on those and how off they were and ignore the tons of passes (many of them difficult throws) that were right on point. Sort of like the people who watched Maye's pro day and ragged on him for missing wildly on two throws while ignoring the other 70+ that he nailed.

[Skinsinparadise]

5 minutes ago, CapsSkins said:

lol this “letter” is a puff piece prob designed by his agents and ghostwritten like all those Athletic pieces are. It’s propaganda.

 

Not to say it’s totally inaccurate, but let’s not pretend he organically decided hey I feel emotionally compelled to pen my thoughts as I go thru this process. It’s all sausage-making

 

Definitely a lot of fluff.  And agree probably ghost written.  But it was interesting for me to read about his desire to play the position among other things.  I've read other articles over the years on similar topics with other draftees but this one for me was better written-said and I found some of it interesting. 

 

This is coming from me who has criticized some of the other personality stuff related to him.

[Skinsinparadise]

Found this amusing

 

 

 

[zCommander]

30 minutes ago, MartinC said:

Josh Allen has played in 10 playoff games (that alone suggests he is doing something right). In those games he has thrown for 2,700 yards and change, 21 TDs and 4 INTS. He also has over 500 yards rushing and 5 rushing TDs in those games.

That's what Allen has done in the playoffs and it looks pretty good to me. I'd say he is elite. Josh Allen is not what is stopping Buffalo winning a Super Bowl, he is a big part of what is giving them a chance each year.

 

That's great and all. But Allen had a chance to put a stamp on his status by beating the Chiefs in the divisional game last year. He wasn't clutch. If a QB can't take your team to the big dance then all you are left with just empty hopes years after years.

 

I do feel sorry for the Bills fans from yesteryears. They went to 4 SBs back-to-back and lost all of them. (But not sorry for beating them in 1992 though ). I am pretty sure those fans are getting up in age now and want a QB who can bring home the Lombardi. I don't see Allen being that QB though. I might be in the minority here but that is how I feel. 

[CapsSkins]

8 minutes ago, Skinsinparadise said:

 

Definitely a lot of fluff.  And agree probably ghost written.  But it was interesting for me to read about his desire to play the position among other things.  I've read other articles over the years on similar topics with other draftees but this one for me was better written-said and I found some of it interesting. 

 

This is coming from me who has criticized some of the other personality stuff related to him.

Yeah I definitely think there’s a very strong chance he’s the pick, though not bc I think the pundits saying it have any inside knowledge.

 

I would not be surprised at all if he’s our guy.

[Warhead36]

7 minutes ago, zCommander said:

 

That's great and all. But Allen had a chance to put a stamp on his status by beating the Chiefs in the divisional game last year. He wasn't clutch. If a QB can't take your team to the big dance then all you are left with just empty hopes years after years.

 

I do feel sorry for the Bills fans from yesteryears. They went to 4 SBs back-to-back and lost all of them. (But not sorry for beating them in 1992 though ). I am pretty sure those fans are getting up in age now and want a QB who can bring home the Lombardi. I don't see Allen being that QB though. I might be in the minority here but that is how I feel. 

Its Allen's fault Diggs couldn't catch and their K missed a chip shot to tie it or the defense couldn't stop Mahomes? (and couldn't stop him with literally 13 seconds left)

 

Your logic is awful. If Allen isn't elite then there is literally only one elite QB in the league in Mahomes.

[skinzplay]

"For Entertainment Purposes Only" -- that's the label that ought to be put on the majority of stuff being published pre-draft. It's fun to read, watch or listen to, but that's about it.

[Jumbo]

2 hours ago, Lombardi's_kid_brother said:

Here is my final opinion.

 

Whatever QB you like, I don't.

 

 

[Skinsinparadise]

13 minutes ago, CapsSkins said:

Yeah I definitely think there’s a very strong chance he’s the pick, though not bc I think the pundits saying it have any inside knowledge.

 

I would not be surprised at all if he’s our guy.

 

I'd guess its more likely him than Maye but i do think it can be Maye.  I'd be surprised if its McCarthy.

 

It's not that i am buying into pure gossip.  But it's that am not ruling out that Keim is right that when he asks around the league (sounds like mostly coaches) he's getting Daniels > Maye.  Standig sort of alluded to the same thought on a podcast but he didn't say its 100% the way Keim has alluded to.

 

Two things can be right at the same time.  Maye and Daniels could be both good.  it doesn't have to be one is good and the other is bad.   

 

Personally I am a Maye guy.  But am not in the camp that taking Daniels is outrageous or dumb or shouldn't happen.   If they took him, i'd get it. 

Edited April 4 by Skinsinparadise

[CapsSkins]

2 minutes ago, Skinsinparadise said:

 

I'd guess its more likely him than Maye but i do think it can be Maye.  I'd be surprised if its McCarthy.

 

It's not that i am buying into pure gossip.  But it's that am not ruling out that Keim is right that when he asks around the league (sounds like mostly coaches) he's getting Daniels > Maye.  Standig sort of alluded to the same thought on a podcast but he didn't say its 100% the way Keim has alluded to.

 

Two things can be right at the same time.  Maye and Daniels could be both good.  it doesn't have to be one is good and the other is bad.   

 

Personally I am a Maye guy.  But am not in the camp that taking Daniels is outrageous or dumb or shouldn't happen.   If they took him, i'd get it. 

What I’ve heard from Peters and Quinn about team-building makes me think they’d prefer Maye but they could flat out like Daniels better. Will be interesting to see.

[Warhead36]

3 minutes ago, CapsSkins said:

What I’ve heard from Peters and Quinn about team-building makes me think they’d prefer Maye but they could flat out like Daniels better. Will be interesting to see.

Harris's mantra about there being no shortcuts screams Maye. Daniels is the Snyder sexy win now pick.

[Going Commando]

7 minutes ago, Skinsinparadise said:

If they took him, i'd get it. 

 

I wouldn't.  I'd think we were passing over the next Josh Allen for the next Justin Fields.  It'd be an indefensible mistake and take the wind out of the sails of the rebuild for me.  But I would hope to be wrong.

[DogofWar1]

Hell yeah gimme Coke Herbert

[Skinsinparadise]

9 minutes ago, CapsSkins said:

What I’ve heard from Peters and Quinn about team-building makes me think they’d prefer Maye but they could flat out like Daniels better. Will be interesting to see.

 

Based on what I've heard from Peters and Quinn, tough call for me based on that alone.

 

As for why i like Maye and like him better

 

A,  Makes all the throws

B.  Changes speeds on his throws beautifully

C. Makes plays off platform

D.  Feasts off 2nd level throws which are key in the NFL

E.  Can run

F.  Has a great arm.

G.  Good make up

 

Drawbacks

 

A.  Inconsistent accuracy

B.  wild when making plays off platform -- some great plays, some bad plays

 

 

As for Daniels

 

A.  Good deep ball

B.  Good with first level throws -- better at it than Maye IMO

C. I am a big fan of his running -- I disagree its just straight line -- plenty of zig and zag in his running

D.  Good make up

 

Drawbacks

 

A.  Needs to throw more with anticipation

B.  Needs to throw more in between the numbers

C.  Needs to throw off platform more

D.  Frame-injury

 

[MartinC]

25 minutes ago, zCommander said:

 

That's great and all. But Allen had a chance to put a stamp on his status by beating the Chiefs in the divisional game last year. He wasn't clutch. If a QB can't take your team to the big dance then all you are left with just empty hopes years after years.

Wins and losses are not a QB stat, they are team stat. But Allen gives the Bills a chance every year - though he's going to have his work cut out this year as it looks like the Bills are having to restructure that roster.

[Warhead36]

I would still be kinda sorda excited about Daniels.

 

If they took McCarthy, then yeah I'd be as deflated as GC would be about Daniels and would definitely have me questioning the new regime.

[Going Commando]

22 minutes ago, Warhead36 said:

Its Allen's fault Diggs couldn't catch and their K missed a chip shot to tie it or the defense couldn't stop Mahomes? (and couldn't stop him with literally 13 seconds left)

 

Your logic is awful. If Allen isn't elite then there is literally only one elite QB in the league in Mahomes.

 

This is the poster who thinks Sam Howell was better than the likes of Burrow/Lawrence/Herbert.  Takes like that make our community look bad.  Just for the benefit of the record and anyone from outside who may wander into this thread, absolutely nobody agrees that Allen isn't an elite QB.  He's completely dominant and a top three player in the league, period. 

 

There is only one team in the league that wouldn't rather have Allen than their current QB, and only two more lying to themselves that they wouldn't either.

[Skinsinparadise]

20 minutes ago, Going Commando said:

 

I wouldn't.  I'd think we were passing over the next Josh Allen for the next Justin Fields.  It'd be an indefensible mistake and take the wind out of the sails of the rebuild for me.  But I would hope to be wrong.

 

As I've said before, I got some confidence in my takes about players.  But when it comes to QBs, if I thought my opinion was definitive, I'd be wasting my time here.  I've been relatviely good at judging QBs who can't play IMHO versus some people who have been sold on said QBs:  Trubisky, Haskins, Darnold, Rosen.  But as for guessing which QB has it?  I am as hit and miss as name that random fan.

 

No one has broken the QB code as for which college QB has what it takes to be a good NFL QB with major certaintly.  As Arians pointed out in his book about QBs, its so hard to guess because so much of it is about fast visual processing and its so hard to tell if they can do it until they start playing real NFL games.

 

Part of the reason why I enjoyed the QB school guy, O'Sulivan's segment the other day is this dude played the position, he watched a ton of tape on these guys, makes a living partly by teaching and instructing QB play, yet he doesn't think he's even close to figured it all out.

 

So that's my way of saying, for me it would feel very arrogant to be that sure about college QBs that I think am right over this team's scouts -- especially considering they have a ton of information on these guys that we don't.  

 

Not saying you shouldn't feel the way you do.  to each their own.  But am explaining the way I feel and why.

Edited April 4 by Skinsinparadise

[Conn]

15 hours ago, TheBigJourney said:

Schefter is the law. He said they’re taking Daniels. Cry harder.

This is an example of a bad post and poor contribution, kids 

[CapsSkins]

11 minutes ago, Skinsinparadise said:

 

Based on what I've heard from Peters and Quinn, tough call for me based on that alone.

 

As for why i like Maye and like him better

 

A,  Makes all the throws

B.  Changes speeds on his throws beautifully

C. Makes plays off platform

D.  Feasts off 2nd level throws which are key in the NFL

E.  Can run

F.  Has a great arm.

G.  Good make up

 

Drawbacks

 

A.  Inconsistent accuracy

B.  wild when making plays off platform -- some great plays, some bad plays

 

 

As for Daniels

 

A.  Good deep ball

B.  Good with first level throws -- better at it than Maye IMO

C. I am a big fan of his running -- I disagree its just straight line -- plenty of zig and zag in his running

D.  Good make up

 

Drawbacks

 

A.  Needs to throw more with anticipation

B.  Needs to throw more in between the numbers

C.  Needs to throw off platform more

D.  Frame-injury

 

To add to these well-framed points, the regime’s emphasis on contending for the long-term makes me consider the following question:

 

Which prospect is, all things considered, likely to be the better quarterback in 2035?

 

To me, that screams Maye. But who knows. That’s just one piece of the puzzle.