The Official QB Thread- JD5 taken #2. Randall 2.0 or Bayou Bob? Mariotta and Hartman forever. Fromm cut

[Bantu]

12 minutes ago, Dah-Dee said:

 

I agree, don't see Maye's footwork as a major issue going forward, I think both he and the issue are super-coachable. I have also seen multiple reports of UNC coaching for QBs not being the best. Fortunately, I think, Maye has only played football for 2 of the last 4 years (I don't count the few minutes total of end-of-game time his redshirt freshman year as 'playing'), including no football season his senior HS year, and he's only 21, so it just doesn't seem like footwork is something anywhere near set in stone for him.

 

I'm more concerned about his decision-making, including reported issues with post-snap adjustments, headscratching tendencies to float into sacks and make the wrong throw (i.e., into coverage with other receivers open); and those hilariously-bad throws. Are those all things that can be coached out of him? Wobblers and bad misses, sure. The rest, not so sure.

 

But I hope those are things he can overcome, because I really really want to see him throwing deep bullets over the middle to Scary Terry.

The bolded part is the BIG worry for me as pocket presence and being able to navigate a dirty pocket while looking downfield is typically not something that can develop over time but is more of an innate quality. 

 

 

[DogofWar1]

8 minutes ago, Bantu said:

The bolded part is the BIG worry for me as pocket presence and being able to navigate a dirty pocket while looking downfield is typically not something that can develop over time but is more of an innate quality. 

 

Indeee it's a concern but I think if we skip Maye then we probably start moving towards McCarthy.

 

Jayden might be able to do it but obviously a major knock on him is his tendency to drop his eyes and run.

 

So maybe he can learn to keep eyes up and avoid pressure in the pocket but of the 3 McCarthy might be the best at that.

[Voice_of_Reason]

3 minutes ago, Bantu said:

The bolded part is the BIG worry for me as pocket presence and being able to navigate a dirty pocket while looking downfield is typically not something that can develop over time but is more of an innate quality. 

 

 

I think one thing should be noted: the UNC OL was atrocious.  They often just ran the wrong way and let free runners to the QB.  Maye probably had no idea of his protection was going to be where it was supposed to be 90% of the time.  So I think some, not all, of the “floating into sacks” might be explained by “he moved to where he thought he was going to have protection and he didn’t.

 

Thete was one play I watched which sticks out, where the RT blocked down on the DT, who was also blocked by the RG and C.  That guy was pretty well blocked.  But the DE was turned loose right into Maye’s throwing lane.  He was going to throw into a window to the right, he got the ball, set up, and had a free rushing DE (NOT blitzing LB) right in his face immediately.  That was one of the more obvious examples of the OL just doing the wrong thing.  And Maye had to figure out on the fly what the hell to do about it. 
 

So how much is on Maye not having pocket awareness and how much is the pocket not doing the right things?  Tough to say.  
 

But a QB is expecting the OL to block in a certain way, and then adjusts what they do based on the protection scheme.  If the protection scheme is blown, it’s tough to downgrade the QB too much.

[Bantu]

14 minutes ago, Voice_of_Reason said:

I think one thing should be noted: the UNC OL was atrocious.  They often just ran the wrong way and let free runners to the QB.  Maye probably had no idea of his protection was going to be where it was supposed to be 90% of the time.  So I think some, not all, of the “floating into sacks” might be explained by “he moved to where he thought he was going to have protection and he didn’t.

 

Thete was one play I watched which sticks out, where the RT blocked down on the DT, who was also blocked by the RG and C.  That guy was pretty well blocked.  But the DE was turned loose right into Maye’s throwing lane.  He was going to throw into a window to the right, he got the ball, set up, and had a free rushing DE (NOT blitzing LB) right in his face immediately.  That was one of the more obvious examples of the OL just doing the wrong thing.  And Maye had to figure out on the fly what the hell to do about it. 
 

So how much is on Maye not having pocket awareness and how much is the pocket not doing the right things?  Tough to say.  
 

But a QB is expecting the OL to block in a certain way, and then adjusts what they do based on the protection scheme.  If the protection scheme is blown, it’s tough to downgrade the QB too much.

That UNC OL did no one any favors, but that is not exactly what I was referring to or saw. There would be spaces for Maye to slide, climb the pocket, etc, but then he'd just sort of bump himself into a linemen or he'd climb and step into a throw with an interior linemen getting pushed back. Again, so much to like with him but head scratching stuff also 

[Warhead36]

8 minutes ago, Bantu said:

That UNC OL did no one any favors, but that is not exactly what I was referring to or saw. There would be spaces for Maye to slide, climb the pocket, etc, but then he'd just sort of bump himself into a linemen or he'd climb and step into a throw with an interior linemen getting pushed back. Again, so much to like with him but head scratching stuff also 

That's where he needs game reps and experience.

[zCommander]

1 hour ago, Warhead36 said:

Surprised we haven't seen any big breaking news today, if you get my drift

 

I was going to set up a fake page on my website that it is now confirmed that the Commanders are taking Maye lol

 

 

[Voice_of_Reason]

16 minutes ago, Bantu said:

That UNC OL did no one any favors, but that is not exactly what I was referring to or saw. There would be spaces for Maye to slide, climb the pocket, etc, but then he'd just sort of bump himself into a linemen or he'd climb and step into a throw with an interior linemen getting pushed back. Again, so much to like with him but head scratching stuff also 

I mean, ok, but that's literally true with every single player in the every draft.  None come out as finished products, especially now since the coaching and schemes in college football have gone to complete poop.

 

I think I give Maye a little more leeway because I think at times he literally had no idea what the right thing to do was, because everything around him was such a mess.  And he didn't trust the protection to be there to step up into. 

 

One of the things I heard Steve Young say eons ago is pocket presence is directly correlated to knowing where your escape routes are.  This was a Bill Walsh thing also.  But THAT is predicated on the escape route being blocked somewhat properly. Walsh even said they would "drill it repeatedly."  Young said he had to know exactly where every OL was supposed to be, because he wasn't very tall, he needed to scoot around to find throwing lanes.   And with the number of times the ability to step up in the pocket was not there, it's not so much a wonder Maye just sortof stood there at times, because he's pretty big and tall.

 

The thing is, if you're a QB and you're keeping your eyes down field, you can't really look to see where the room is to step up.  You have to know it's going to be there, and you have to trust you can do it.  When you lose that trust, you stop doing it, OR you start peeking, and if you peek, you drop your eyes.  The minute you drop your eyes, you might as well just scramble.

 

For me, it's an interesting dichotomy: on one hand, I'm about as hard on a QB as anybody about hitting the drop, going through the progression and getting the ball out in the timing of the play, which makes the OL play somewhat limited.  Holding the ball in today's NFL is a cardinal sin and it's going to cause the offense to stall.  So I REALLY look for QBs who make good, quick decisions. I was really hard on Howell early in the season because I think at least 60% of the sacks he took were self inflicted.  He should have gotten the ball out.  

 

On the flip side, if the QB IS doing the right things, and the blocking is a mess, I give the QB a HUGE break.  

 

And from what I've seen with Maye, he did the right things most of the time.  He wasn't 100% perfect, and he was inconsistent at times, but most of the time, he would hit the drop and make a decision.  But the blocking was absolutely pitiful so much of the time.  

[Dah-Dee]

ESPN seems to have managed producing an article that makes absolutely nobody happy, certainly not the CBS affiliate in Boston:

 

https://www.cbsnews.com/boston/news/espn-data-driven-comparisons-drake-maye-jayden-daniels-nfl-draft/

 

In a story written by Bill Connelly, ESPN looked at data to find unique traits in Caleb Williams, Jayden Daniels, Drake Maye, J.J. McCarthy, Bo Nix and Michael Penix Jr. Using that data, prospect comparisons were made between this year's prospects and prospects from past years.

 

For anyone in New England hoping The Guy will be available at No. 3, the comparisons are a little concerning.

The story says that Daniels compares most closely with Hendon Hooker and Justin Fields. Hooker was taken in the third round by Detroit last year and missed his rookie season while recovering from an ACL injury suffered his senior year at Tennessee. He did have excellent numbers in two years at Tennessee and Virginia Tech (80 touchdowns, 12 interceptions) while rushing for over 2,000 yards with 25 touchdowns, but he's 26 years old, he's yet to play a down in the NFL, and he's not expected to be a starting quarterback at the NFL level. And Fields, as we know, was drafted 11th overall by the Bears and was just traded to Pittsburgh in exchange for a conditional sixth-round pick.

 

The story then compares Maye to Jake Browning and Jordan Ta'amu. We saw Browning make his NFL debut last year for Cincinnati, in his fifth season after going undrafted. He handled himself pretty well, as he went 4-3 with a 70.4 percent completion rate, along with 12 touchdowns and seven interceptions. But, again, it took him five years to get onto the field after his collegiate career at Washington. Ta'amu entered professional football the same year as Browning (2019) but has not played in an NFL game. He's spent time with the Texans, Chiefs (twice), Lions (twice), Commanders, Panthers and Vikings along with the St. Louis Battlehawks (XFL), Tampa Bay Bandits (USFL), and D.C. Defenders (XFL).

 

 

"These are the guys who most closely match Maye's combination of efficiency, pressure avoidance and zone over man preferences," Connelly wrote. "This is discouraging in one way -- if you're drafting a guy with a top-five pick, you'd like a higher ceiling than this."

 

Original article (ESPN+):

 

https://www.espn.com/college-football/insider/story/_/id/39838352/2024-nfl-draft-qb-stat-comps-caleb-williams-patrick-mahomes-jayden-daniels-drake-maye

 

2024 NFL draft: Statistical comps for top six quarterbacks

Excerpt on Maye:

 

Drake Maye, North Carolina Tar Heels

Ranking from Kiper: No. 7 overall

Maye is a far less unique prospect than Daniels, for all reasons better and worse. He stays in the pocket more, and his career stats have very few extremes: His 64.9% completion rate ranks 60th out of the 331 QBR eligible college quarterbacks dating back to 2016, his 7.5 yards per dropback ranks 62nd, and his 3.9 TD-to-INT ratio ranks 38th. That isn't necessarily elite, and his highs weren't nearly as high as Daniels', but if you're a scout or offensive coach, you're looking at the combination of stats and stature -- 6-foot-4, 223 pounds, two years of starting experience (not too many, not too few), built to star in a "prospect's pro day" environment -- and you're seeing one hell of a lump of clay to mold.

 

Most unique traits: Maye's overall stats grow more impressive when you consider that opponents blitzed him 32% of the time (44th-highest), and he was pressured on 34% of dropbacks (75th highest). That's far more than most other top prospects, and it forced him to prove his mobility at times. He scrambled on 11% of dropbacks (22nd) and averaged a solid 7.5 yards per scramble (97th), and unlike other prospects who trust their legs a little too much, his 20.6% sacks-to-pressures ratio was solid (145th). His mobility helps him buy time and avoid contact in a very helpful way.

 

His other unique trait, one that might not help him all that much in the pros: He is far more effective against zone defenses than against man. His career raw QBR against zone was 86.9 (11th overall), but his QBR against man was just 63.1 (107th). He wasn't blessed with USC's or LSU's receiving corps -- and obviously you need man-beating receivers to beat man coverage -- but with players like Josh Downs (in 2022) and Tez Walker (in 2023) he wasn't exactly lacking options either.

 

Among 126 QBR-eligible quarterbacks in 2023, Maye ranked 10th against zone and 105th against man. That is a unique and, considering he'll face more man coverage in the pros, not entirely encouraging combination.

 

Best prospect comps: Jake Browning and Jordan Ta'amu. As a prospect, he obviously grades out better than both of these players -- he is far more athletic than Browning, and Ta'amu was far more of a statue in the pocket -- but from a purely statistical standpoint, these are the guys who most closely match Maye's combination of efficiency, pressure avoidance and zone over man preferences. This is discouraging in one way -- if you're drafting a guy with a top-five pick, you'd like a higher ceiling than this. However, Browning was successful filling in for Joe Burrow with the Bengals in 2023, and Ta'amu has seen success in both the XFL and USFL. If Maye is a much more high-ceilinged version of that QB profile, there are worse comps in the world.

 

Best pro comps: Russell Wilson and Jalen Hurts. That's what you get when you filter for (a) a scramble rate of 7% or higher, (b) a pressure rate of 25% or higher, (c) a completion rate of 60% or higher, (d) 11.5 yards per completion or higher and (e) a better QBR against zone than man. If "Browning and Ta'amu" threw you off the scent, I'd say "Wilson and Hurts" should put you right back on it.

Edited April 1 by Dah-Dee

[Ghost of]

12 hours ago, Going Commando said:

 

Yeah **** them.  If they wanted Drake, they should have sucked more.

15 hours ago, Voice_of_Reason said:

Im back from 9 days in Europe where I made an oath not to check this board while on vacation with the fam. What did I miss?  Agreement all around on everything?

 

 

"runnin from the grind"

[CommanderInTheRye]

1 minute ago, zCommander said:

 

I was going to set up a fake page on my website that it is now confirmed that the Commanders are taking Maye lol

 

 

 

 

Nice!

 

You get the "MayeDay" crew celebrating and "I told ya so'ing!", while the all-in for "Bursa-Sacks" contingent, yells, "Say it aint so!" and goes on 24 hr suicide watch.

 

A wicked more demented ploy though, might have been making it look like JJ is the pick and we're currently exchanging contract offers.

 

That way thecwhole forum (or at least those who bought it lol) is in an uproar.

 

Top it off with a brief tweet by "Schefter" saying he asked Quinn about the breaking news and he angrily responded, "That's out already! Whoever leaked this is getting fired. No comment! Get out of my face! No damn comment!" Then he storms away.

[Ghost of]

I don't have time to check every post but did anyone post this from Thinking Football? Essentially, he has elite traits but has some worrying tendencies that are about more than just poor footwork but inconsistent decision-making. He has a good one about CW and I'm looking forward to his other breakdowns.

 

 

 

Edited April 1 by Ghost of

[Warhead36]

That ESPN article is just a complete mish mash of stats with no context.

 

You can't grade prospects off just raw stats. College football is just way too wide of a spectrum.

[Ghost of]

1 minute ago, Warhead36 said:

That ESPN article is just a complete mish mash of stats with no context.

 

You can't grade prospects off just raw stats. College football is just way too wide of a spectrum.

That said, if anyone has the McCarthy and Daniels sections to post that'd be great. 

[Dah-Dee]

5 minutes ago, Ghost of said:

That said, if anyone has the McCarthy and Daniels sections to post that'd be great. 

 

Sorry, wasn't sure how much it'd be okay to post from pay-walled article, but:

 

J.J. McCarthy, Michigan Wolverines

Ranking from Kiper: No. 14 overall

McCarthy is the Rorschach test of the 2024 draft. When you look at him, do you see a QB with absurd efficiency levels (68% career completion rate, the 15th-best career Total QBR dating back to 2016) and elite decision-making (4.5 TD-to-INT ratio, 23rd)? Or do you see a game manager who was barely asked to do anything for a team with an elite defense and brilliant run game? Whatever you see, you might be right.

 

Most unique traits: McCarthy was outstanding at virtually everything he was asked to do, and he had one of the easiest jobs in college football. His completion rate ranks 24th in this 331-QB sample, his Total QBR was indeed elite, and he proved extremely mobile when asked to do so (9.0 yards per scramble, 7.3 yards per non-sack carry and a well-above-average 16.6% sacks-to-pressures ratio). But he also averaged a paltry 25.8 dropbacks per start, 312th among 331 QBs.

 

McCarthy ran only about three times per game, and his blocking was so good that it took opponents an average of 2.95 seconds to generate pressure, just about the lowest you'll ever see for a pro prospect. None of this has to be damning, mind you -- it just results in an incomplete picture. He finished his career with 791 career dropbacks; Bo Nix had 2,115.

 

Best prospect comps: Stetson Bennett and Tua Tagovailoa. I wasn't looking specifically for players with great defenses (and big leads) at their disposal, but Tagovailoa and Bennett are excellent versions of guys who produced massive efficiency numbers (they're second and eighth out of 331, respectively, in Total QBR in this sample) from fewer than 29 dropbacks per game. McCarthy was basically a lower-risk version of these two, averaging fewer yards per completion but with lower interception rates and better rushing averages. His physical traits (6-foot-2, 219 pounds) are much closer to Tagovailoa's than Bennett's, and he'll be a first-round pick because of it, though the lower-risk stats perhaps suggest a higher floor and lower ceiling than what Tagovailoa brought to the table.

 

Best pro comps: Indeed, we'll see if higher risk and higher pressure look good on McCarthy, but a safe profile can work in the pros. What happens when you filter for (a) a 2.5 TD-to-INT ratio or higher, (b) a scramble rate under 5% and (c) a completion rate over 65%, all from (d) fewer than 35 dropbacks per game? You get Brock Purdy and a late-career Tony Romo. You can obviously win games with such a QB, at least as long as you surround him with the type of quality he had at Michigan. What happens if McCarthy lands on a bad team that asks him to throw 40-plus times per game? We have absolutely no idea.

 

 

Jayden Daniels, LSU Tigers

Ranking from Kiper: No. 2 overall

Look at a given 2024 mock draft, and most of the names at or near the top of the list -- Williams, Drake Maye, Marvin Harrison Jr., Dallas Turner, Jared Verse, Olu Fashanu -- would have been atop mock draft lists a year ago, too. Daniels, however, was nowhere to be found on those lists. Now he's potentially going in the top two. The five-year starter was a consistent play-maker with his legs in three years with Arizona State and two with LSU, but in 2023 he reined in the downfield rushing just enough, kept his eyes downfield a little better and, with help from dynamite receivers Malik Nabers and Brian Thomas Jr., lit college football aflame. In 12 games he averaged 318 passing yards and 103 non-sack rushing yards, a Kyler Murray-esque combination, and now he'll go near where Murray went in the 2020 draft.

 

Most unique traits: Even in an era of QB mobility, Daniels stood out. He scrambled on 14.2% of dropbacks (fourth out of 331), averaged 9.3 yards per scramble (20th) and finished his career with the most non-sack rushing yards (3,989) and scramble yards (2,416) in the sample. He also ran himself into trouble constantly. His 8.2% sack rate ranked 284th, and his 30.8% sacks-to-pressures ratio ranked 282nd. He indeed scrambled less in 2023, taking off a bit more selectively, and the results were obvious. But he was still among the scrambling-est QBs in college football, and that makes the college-to-pro translation a curious proposition.

 

Best prospect comps: Hendon Hooker and Justin Fields. I expected Kyler Murray to slot in here, but Daniels ended up aligning better with these two. Despite his extreme mobility, Murray stayed in the pocket more than Daniels and took far fewer sacks. Daniels' year-to-year progression mirrors that of Hooker to a degree: Both tamped down the rushing tendencies through the years, and both started seizing downfield opportunities in their final seasons. Hooker tore his ACL late in the 2022 season, pre-empting any Heisman chances, but those two QBs' progressions are pretty similar. And the similarities with Fields -- lots of rushing yards, high completion rate, lots of sacks -- are pretty obvious, too.

 

Best pro comps: It's really difficult to find good Daniels comparisons at the NFL level, especially since Hooker was seen as only so much of a prospect due to his knee injuries and his age. (He was already 25 when drafted last year.) What happens when you look at the 2014-23 NFL QBs who produced (a) a scramble rate of at least 8%, (b) a sack rate of at least 10% and (c) a completion rate of at least 60%? You get Justin Fields ... and Tommy DeVito. Turn those dials down to a 6% scramble rate and 8% completion [sack] rate, and you start getting into Deshaun Watson, Russell Wilson and Colin Kaepernick territory, but Daniels' tendencies were extreme. It could be said that every major prospect needs to land with just the right team and just the right offensive coordinator to succeed, but that's doubly true for Daniels.

Edited April 1 by Dah-Dee

[Warhead36]

Justin Fields and Tommy Devito. Like wtf kind of comp is that? I'm not even a big Daniels guy but that's just a random af comparison.

 

You can manipulate stats to say anything. Its just a terrible article that provides nothing.

[CommanderInTheRye]

12 minutes ago, Ghost of said:

That said, if anyone has the McCarthy and Daniels sections to post that'd be great. 

 

 

I just to went their youtube site and a saw one for Caleb, but nothing for JJ or JD. 

 

I could have missed it though. Minimal sleep ystdy and eyes a little blurry right now just  feeling my age a bit. lol

 

So if anyone else wants to check I'd be obliged

[Jumbo]

My least fave posts are mocks. Next, the efforts I think wasted are  just guessing who we take and justifying the guess. Saying who you, or some linked pundit, WANT and WHY is great though, as are all the credible player history and analysis posts. There's a ton of good posting on this board. 👍🏈

 

 

[CommanderInTheRye]

23 minutes ago, Jumbo said:

There's a ton of good posting on this board. 👍🏈

 

On a good day this place honestly produces more informed, well reasoned, thought provoking, and entertaining discourse, than any TV  sports talk show (yeah low bar) or website I frequent.

 

Kudos to all of you "inlorious basterds" that have somehow managed to keep this old vessel fine turned, (mostly) free of barnacles (despite the occasional miscreant poster who we allow so Jumbo can have some fun too) and running smoothly.

 

(Deep bow to the wretched lot of you.)

 

And all of this done, at a time when all around the net, there's a Sargasso sea filled with the abandoned rusting hulks of so many once proud, but now forgotten websites, that have been lost or simply abandoned to so called progress...

 

 

Edited April 1 by CommanderInTheRye

[Ghost of]

27 minutes ago, CommanderInTheRye said:

 

 

I just to went their youtube site and a saw one for Caleb, but nothing for JJ or JD. 

 

I could have missed it though. Minimal sleep ystdy and eyes a little blurry right now just  feeling my age a bit. lol

 

So if anyone else wants to check I'd be obliged

Sorry, two different threads. One was the youtube channel--that's only up to Maye, he's still working on McCarthy and Daniels (I think Daniels, he may have mentioned Nix or Penix).

 

Someone posted the McCarthy and Daniels stuff from ESPN.  Yeah, weird statistical comparisons. I thought he was really using filters on the advanced metrics but it's a mix of eyeballing it and stats that I find repellent (but also compelling as a mixed methods proponent, myself).

[CommanderInTheRye]

Sorry, made whar should have been obvious mistake.

 

not processing good right now taking a bit to break.

[UK Skins]

11 minutes ago, CommanderInTheRye said:

Sorry, made whar should have been obvious mistake.

 

not processing good right now taking a bit to break.

Hope you feel better soon CITR.

[Panninho]

 

 

[Skinsinparadise]

We couldn't be in better hands.  I wouldn't sleep on Kalen King at #2

 

 

 

Edited April 1 by Skinsinparadise

[wit33]

19 hours ago, DogofWar1 said:

 

Well I think "good place" and "easy and achievable" may not be the same thing.  I think Maye's footwork, when not running for his life, is "fine."  It could be better sure but it's not terrible, so it's a reasonable starting point.  It will be a process, but I don't think it's being built from nothing.

 

As for his willingness to learn, I think Maye will be very open to it.

 

After every missed throw during his pro day, he apparently re-ran the throw again to get it right, which is what pushed his throw total up a bit.  Generally speaking he's never come off as a diva, really none of the QBs have, but there's a clear willingness to go back and work on fixing his mistakes, which bodes well.

 

To be clear, many don’t ever fix this area of their game but do get to space of being able to operate an NFL offense. For example, Derek Carr (ExtremeSkins favorite), Alex Smith (MY favorite), Carson Wentz, Russel Wilson, Ryan Tannenhill, Kyler Murray all struggle to organize their feet while in the fire (the pocket). Yes, all for their own reasons, but some of these guys from afar appear to be great hard working family guys that you would think be able to “fix their mistakes”. Just random names off the top, many others.

 

It’s a mutha bleep to change natural patterns, processes, body mechanics when under duress. I 100% own it’s an easier journey to improve mechanics in a comfortable setting or when plays on schedule, but 85% of the NFL can do that, nothing special—that’s competence.

 

 

12 hours ago, mudhog said:

This is a point I want to address. I'm not a coach, so I don't know how easy or hard something like footwork is to fix. But I don't think it's a coincidence that both Sam Howell and Drake Maye came from the same college program into the NFL within 2 years of each other and both have almost the identical problem with footwork, drift in the pocket, throw of the back foot, heel-click, happy feet, problems as the other does.

 

Development definitely matters, but I speculate if you examine Drake Maye’s high school footage, you might find that he played similarly back then. I’ve never actually watched any of his high school clips, so if someone wants to prove me wrong, I’ve given them an alley-oop.
 

If a quarterback has been playing the same way from their youth until now, a lot of that behavior becomes deeply ingrained. When faced with pressure situations, they tend to resort to problem-solving strategies that have served them well throughout their football journey. It all boils down to natural inclination and relying on the physical traits they've developed over time.

 

 

12 hours ago, mudhog said:

 

Something is not being coached to these QB's at the UNC program. But you would have to have your head buried in the sand not to have heard from 60 different sources that Maye's major red flag is his footwork. You know he's heard it. And he's probably working on it as we speak. He's a very bright kid

 

I'd bet he's been hearing this since day one on the UNC campus—for three years straight. Just to be clear, I'm not saying this to disparage him at all.

 

In fact, I believe that over 90% of quarterbacks struggle to fix these types of mechanical issues when under pressure.

 

12 hours ago, mudhog said:

 

It's not like he can't properly drop and set, or that he's never done it. He does it quite frequently. Just not all the time. So I don't buy that a 3 month time-frame isn't an adequate amount of time to become consistent at something he does most of the time, just not all the time. 
 

 

The majority of NFL quarterbacks can drop back and set when the play is on time, especially if their first read is open. 
 

A three-month timeframe seems outrageous to me. Following this logic, it would imply that he should have everything fixed with the help of QBs and specialists between the end of his college season and rookie mini-camp. He might understand what he needs to work on, but expecting it to be fully addressed within just three months is unrealistic.

 

Just to clarify, I used to think Mahomes had terrible footwork until the past year or two. So, I believe you can still be great without having the same type of precise footwork in the pocket as Dan Marino, Tom Brady, or Jared Goff.

 

12 hours ago, mudhog said:

I know that I am oversimplifying this, but the guy is a competitor. He's aware of the problem and surely wants to fix it because he wants to win. Something like consistency isn't hard to teach. He can already do it. It's not new to him. Coaches need to do some in-depth drills and clinics with him. they also need to talk to him and find out what's going on in his head on some of these plays. Like 'why did you drift to the right on this play when your 1st and 2nd reads were to the left?'

 

It's going to be a real battle. It's not just about wanting to fix it—every QB probably wants to fix their issues. But for him, it'll likely require being extremely dedicated to the process. The wild thing is, being dedicated and committed to the process still doesn’t work in most cases. 

 

I'm not claiming to be an authority on this; I'm just drawing from my experience as a basketball coach and my work in behavioral health. Working through these kinds of challenges takes a lot of time and effort.

 

 

12 hours ago, mudhog said:

So much has been said about Drake's footwork, like it's this big, insurmountable thing. He can already do it. And, I'm sure that he's smart enough to see that his best games with his best completion percentages were when he limited the mental lapses with his footwork and kept his mechanics smooth.

It's definitely not insurmountable, but addressing football trauma like this will demand a significant amount of effort to establish a healthy baseline and competence in footwork. Some QBs might go on to earn hundreds of millions of dollars, start for over a decade, and be genuinely nice individuals, yet never fully transcend beyond competence. And that's not necessarily a bad thing; competence holds immense value, especially at the right price.

 

 

3 hours ago, Dah-Dee said:

 

I agree, don't see Maye's footwork as a major issue going forward, I think both he and the issue are super-coachable. I have also seen multiple reports of UNC coaching for QBs not being the best. Fortunately, I think, Maye has only played football for 2 of the last 4 years (I don't count the few minutes total of end-of-game time his redshirt freshman year as 'playing'), including no football season his senior HS year, and he's only 21, so it just doesn't seem like footwork is something anywhere near set in stone for him.

 

How's footwork not a significant issue? It's literally one of the main separators for today's pocket/mobile QBs.

 

I must admit, someone could call me out for discounting injury concerns for Jayden Daniels, so I'm not immune to ignoring issues others don't.

 

 

3 hours ago, Dah-Dee said:

 

I'm more concerned about his decision-making, including reported issues with post-snap adjustments, headscratching tendencies to float into sacks and make the wrong throw (i.e., into coverage with other receivers open); and those hilariously-bad throws. Are those all things that can be coached out of him? Wobblers and bad misses, sure. The rest, not so sure.

 

Decision-making is often directly tied to footwork. What you're concerned with here aligns with what you say you're not concerned with.

 

3 hours ago, Dah-Dee said:

 

But I hope those are things he can overcome, because I really really want to see him throwing deep bullets over the middle to Scary Terry.

 

I'm with you relating to rooting for him to throw many completions to Terry. 

 

I have no issues if they draft him and find myself in a good position of being satisfied with both options, but I personally prefer Daniels.

 

Edited April 1 by wit33

[zCommander]

2 minutes ago, Skinsinparadise said:

We couldn't be in better hands

 

 

 

 

So it begins lol